Treason in America

[SAYIT]

If anything is really known about why peace has alluded the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is the Power of the political influence that Israel has over American Politics and Security via AIPAC and others...

No, it's because the "Palestinians" are nothing more than a proxy army for nations and organizations unwilling to suffer the consequences of attacking Israel.

Jonathan Pollard: Israel making a hero out of this dirt-bag is indicative that Israel's interests above all trump America's...

That is a given. They are a sovereign nation surrounded by enemies and potential enemies. Our interests trump all other nations as well, except under Obama, who is essentially a shill for those who would destroy us.

You are correct on both points....The Palestinians are the Pawns for the entire ME because they now lack the military power or the nukes needed to successfully war on Israel...That gap is closing, and frankly, I can't see how these enemies of Western Colonialism can keep the Arabs from obtaining nukes unless Israel makes peace to the 67 lines they (Arabs) are willing to accept in their collective peace offerings.

How does Israel making peace (tough to do unilaterally) end the Arab/Muslim nuke parade? Pakistan has 'em, paid for by the Saudis who have publically stated that if Iran get nukes they will too (none of which is contingent upon Israel making peace).

 

[aris2chat]

If anything is really known about why peace has alluded the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is the Power of the political influence that Israel has over American Politics and Security via AIPAC and others...


Jonathan Pollard: Israel making a hero out of this dirt-bag is indicative that Israel's interests above all trump America's...

The truth be known.


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/29/o...that-israelis-just-dont-get-america.html?_r=0

181Comments

..."The Israeli government even issued Mr. Pollard an Israeli identity card and published a public admission that he spied for Israel – the opposite of what should have been done to speed his release. Mr. Pollard’s second wife, Esther Seitz, who married him after he was jailed and who holds extreme right-wing views, has been loudly leading this chorus. She even hired a lawyer who had previously been involved in the defense of Yigal Amir, who in 1995 assassinated Mr. Rabin, then the prime minister.

The nationalistic campaign, along with the big mouths of the confused Mr. Pollard and his extremist wife, are the main reason he is still in jail.

When Mr. Pollard is released in November, it will set off rejoicing in Israel. It’s not clear yet if President Obama will allow him to leave the United States and settle there. But if Israelis celebrate his release and possible “homecoming,” there must be a responsible adult in Israel who understands how turning a spy into a returning hero will be interpreted in Washington. Israelis must realize, even if 30 years too late, that Americans see Mr. Pollard as a traitor of the worst kind and that celebrating his release will only further harm Israel’s already strained relations with America.

He served 30 years, we can be happy for his release. Or is it fair only when American calls for release of killers out of Israeli prisons?

If anything is really known about why peace has alluded the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is the Power of the political influence that Israel has over American Politics and Security via AIPAC and others...


Jonathan Pollard: Israel making a hero out of this dirt-bag is indicative that Israel's interests above all trump America's...

The truth be known.


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/29/o...that-israelis-just-dont-get-america.html?_r=0

181Comments

..."The Israeli government even issued Mr. Pollard an Israeli identity card and published a public admission that he spied for Israel – the opposite of what should have been done to speed his release. Mr. Pollard’s second wife, Esther Seitz, who married him after he was jailed and who holds extreme right-wing views, has been loudly leading this chorus. She even hired a lawyer who had previously been involved in the defense of Yigal Amir, who in 1995 assassinated Mr. Rabin, then the prime minister.

The nationalistic campaign, along with the big mouths of the confused Mr. Pollard and his extremist wife, are the main reason he is still in jail.

When Mr. Pollard is released in November, it will set off rejoicing in Israel. It’s not clear yet if President Obama will allow him to leave the United States and settle there. But if Israelis celebrate his release and possible “homecoming,” there must be a responsible adult in Israel who understands how turning a spy into a returning hero will be interpreted in Washington. Israelis must realize, even if 30 years too late, that Americans see Mr. Pollard as a traitor of the worst kind and that celebrating his release will only further harm Israel’s already strained relations with America.

A lot of what pollard turned over was about how the US was able to spy on Israel.
US can spy on Israel, but Israel can't know what the US is doing in Israel?

Much of the information had been shared with the USSR so why not with Israel.

Why would the US withhold information that was relevant to Israeli defense?

I question this whole case, but technically what pollard did was against the law, the severity and penalty is more what I am concerned about. I think it was excessive relevant to the information that was shared.

US spying on Israel strained the relationship. US not sharing pertinent information with Israel strained the relationship.

Rather a double standard.

Hey we should not be sharing anything with Israel and that includes our taxes. He was a spy and some say the info was also sent to Russia, as we know there were many Jewish Russian Spies over here after WWII , the red scare. Julius and Ethel Rosenberg

This is why dual citizenship laws need to be repealed, you cannot serve two Masters...

Personally 30 years is fair, but he should be paroled in a house arrest for the remainder of his natural life.

Traitors should be no-one's hero!

The documents should have been shared with Israel. US withheld them and classified them secret. Israel has a right to find and use information to it security.
Why does the US have the right to spy but Israel is supposed to wait to be spoon fed only what the US wants them to have?

Pollard was wrong, but so was the US. Information the US was willing to share about Israel security with the USSR but was not willing to share with Israel? US can spy but not Israel?

What Pollard turned over to Israel was not equal to the punishment. It should not have been withheld from Israel at all.

Israel and the US are not the only duel citizenships. Not all jews want to be Israeli.

List of Countries Allow Restrict Dual Citizenship

The fascist Phalange says:The documents should have been shared with Israel. US withheld them and classified them secret.

Again, you fascist right wing Zionist assholes approve of treason against an ally...Bet you'd sell your soul?

I forgot you have!

I said he was wrong, but so were the circumstances.

Again trying to insult or defame me? You really are clueless, so sad

 

[Lipush]

If anything is really known about why peace has alluded the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is the Power of the political influence that Israel has over American Politics and Security via AIPAC and others...


Jonathan Pollard: Israel making a hero out of this dirt-bag is indicative that Israel's interests above all trump America's...

The truth be known.


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/29/o...that-israelis-just-dont-get-america.html?_r=0

181Comments

..."The Israeli government even issued Mr. Pollard an Israeli identity card and published a public admission that he spied for Israel – the opposite of what should have been done to speed his release. Mr. Pollard’s second wife, Esther Seitz, who married him after he was jailed and who holds extreme right-wing views, has been loudly leading this chorus. She even hired a lawyer who had previously been involved in the defense of Yigal Amir, who in 1995 assassinated Mr. Rabin, then the prime minister.

The nationalistic campaign, along with the big mouths of the confused Mr. Pollard and his extremist wife, are the main reason he is still in jail.

When Mr. Pollard is released in November, it will set off rejoicing in Israel. It’s not clear yet if President Obama will allow him to leave the United States and settle there. But if Israelis celebrate his release and possible “homecoming,” there must be a responsible adult in Israel who understands how turning a spy into a returning hero will be interpreted in Washington. Israelis must realize, even if 30 years too late, that Americans see Mr. Pollard as a traitor of the worst kind and that celebrating his release will only further harm Israel’s already strained relations with America.

He served 30 years, we can be happy for his release. Or is it fair only when American calls for release of killers out of Israeli prisons?

How would you feel if he were an American spy spying on Israel and selling Israeli secrets?

Like Mordechai Va'anunu? It's not something we don't know. already.

Not to mention that uncaught American spies are all over Israel. Difference is, Americans believe its their right to spy, but don't ever let anyone check THEM out.

Actually - what you attribute to "Americans" applies to everyone around the world. You believe you have the right to spy but no one else? Again - how would you feel if you caught an American spy doing what Pollard did - spying on Israel and attempting to negotiate arms illegal arms deals with Iranians, Pakistanis? Meh.

Bottom line is, everyone spies on everyone. That's per fact. Pollard was punished and did his time. It is natural to feel overjoyed that after 30 years in prison he's finally released. I don't see any reason to apologize for it. Sorry.

 

[Lipush]

Mordechai Vanunu - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Mordechai Vanunu (Hebrew: מרדכי ואנונו‎; born 14 October 1954), also known as John Crossman,[2][3] is an Israeli former nuclear technician who, citing his opposition to weapons of mass destruction, revealed details of Israel's nuclear weapons program to the British press in 1986.[4][5] He was subsequently lured to Italy by a Mossad agent, where he was drugged and abducted by Israeli intelligence agents.[4] He was transported to Israel and ultimately convicted in a trial that was held behind closed doors.[4]


Vanunu spent 18 years in prison, including more than 11 in solitary confinement. Released from prison in 2004, he became subject to a broad array of restrictions on his speech and movement. Since then he has been arrested several times for violations of those restrictions, including giving various interviews to foreign journalists and attempting to leave Israel. He says he suffered "cruel and barbaric treatment" at the hands of Israeli authorities while imprisoned, and suggests that his treatment would have been different if he had not converted to Christianity from Judaism.[6]


In 2007, Vanunu was sentenced to six months in prison for violating terms of his parole. The sentence was considered unusual even by the prosecution who expected a suspended sentence. In response, Amnesty International issued a press release on 2 July 2007, stating that "The organisation considers Mordechai Vanunu to be a prisoner of conscience and calls for his immediate and unconditional release."[7] In May 2010, Vanunu was arrested and sentenced to three months in jail on a charge that he met foreigners in violation of conditions of his 2004 release from jail.​

Vanunu has been characterized internationally as a whistleblower[8][9] and by Israel as a traitor.[10][11][12][13] Daniel Ellsberg has referred to him as "the preeminent hero of the nuclear era".[14]
​

I was not familiar with Vanunu so I looked him up. Rather interesting the striking disparities in treatment between Pollard and Vanunu. Eleven years in solitary confinement is barbaric to say the least. Why won't Israel let him leave yet clamor for Pollards release?

Because he kept babbling himself to death even after being released. We didn't check on him just because we felt like it, it's not like Israel doesn't have anything better do than chasing an old fart. But then he converted to Christianity and left to America where he was appreciated by them (imagine that) and says he doesn't want anything to do with Israel. In return we said, "Sayonara, asshole," gave him the boot and that was that.

 

[Coyote]

If anything is really known about why peace has alluded the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is the Power of the political influence that Israel has over American Politics and Security via AIPAC and others...


Jonathan Pollard: Israel making a hero out of this dirt-bag is indicative that Israel's interests above all trump America's...

The truth be known.


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/29/o...that-israelis-just-dont-get-america.html?_r=0

181Comments

..."The Israeli government even issued Mr. Pollard an Israeli identity card and published a public admission that he spied for Israel – the opposite of what should have been done to speed his release. Mr. Pollard’s second wife, Esther Seitz, who married him after he was jailed and who holds extreme right-wing views, has been loudly leading this chorus. She even hired a lawyer who had previously been involved in the defense of Yigal Amir, who in 1995 assassinated Mr. Rabin, then the prime minister.

The nationalistic campaign, along with the big mouths of the confused Mr. Pollard and his extremist wife, are the main reason he is still in jail.

When Mr. Pollard is released in November, it will set off rejoicing in Israel. It’s not clear yet if President Obama will allow him to leave the United States and settle there. But if Israelis celebrate his release and possible “homecoming,” there must be a responsible adult in Israel who understands how turning a spy into a returning hero will be interpreted in Washington. Israelis must realize, even if 30 years too late, that Americans see Mr. Pollard as a traitor of the worst kind and that celebrating his release will only further harm Israel’s already strained relations with America.

He served 30 years, we can be happy for his release. Or is it fair only when American calls for release of killers out of Israeli prisons?

How would you feel if he were an American spy spying on Israel and selling Israeli secrets?

Like Mordechai Va'anunu? It's not something we don't know. already.

Not to mention that uncaught American spies are all over Israel. Difference is, Americans believe its their right to spy, but don't ever let anyone check THEM out.

Actually - what you attribute to "Americans" applies to everyone around the world. You believe you have the right to spy but no one else? Again - how would you feel if you caught an American spy doing what Pollard did - spying on Israel and attempting to negotiate arms illegal arms deals with Iranians, Pakistanis? Meh.

Bottom line is, everyone spies on everyone. That's per fact. Pollard was punished and did his time. It is natural to feel overjoyed that after 30 years in prison he's finally released. I don't see any reason to apologize for it. Sorry.

First statement - we're agreed on. Who said you should apologize? And - do you expect us to feel "overjoyed" ?

 

[Coyote]

Mordechai Vanunu - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Mordechai Vanunu (Hebrew: מרדכי ואנונו‎; born 14 October 1954), also known as John Crossman,[2][3] is an Israeli former nuclear technician who, citing his opposition to weapons of mass destruction, revealed details of Israel's nuclear weapons program to the British press in 1986.[4][5] He was subsequently lured to Italy by a Mossad agent, where he was drugged and abducted by Israeli intelligence agents.[4] He was transported to Israel and ultimately convicted in a trial that was held behind closed doors.[4]


Vanunu spent 18 years in prison, including more than 11 in solitary confinement. Released from prison in 2004, he became subject to a broad array of restrictions on his speech and movement. Since then he has been arrested several times for violations of those restrictions, including giving various interviews to foreign journalists and attempting to leave Israel. He says he suffered "cruel and barbaric treatment" at the hands of Israeli authorities while imprisoned, and suggests that his treatment would have been different if he had not converted to Christianity from Judaism.[6]


In 2007, Vanunu was sentenced to six months in prison for violating terms of his parole. The sentence was considered unusual even by the prosecution who expected a suspended sentence. In response, Amnesty International issued a press release on 2 July 2007, stating that "The organisation considers Mordechai Vanunu to be a prisoner of conscience and calls for his immediate and unconditional release."[7] In May 2010, Vanunu was arrested and sentenced to three months in jail on a charge that he met foreigners in violation of conditions of his 2004 release from jail.​

Vanunu has been characterized internationally as a whistleblower[8][9] and by Israel as a traitor.[10][11][12][13] Daniel Ellsberg has referred to him as "the preeminent hero of the nuclear era".[14]
​

I was not familiar with Vanunu so I looked him up. Rather interesting the striking disparities in treatment between Pollard and Vanunu. Eleven years in solitary confinement is barbaric to say the least. Why won't Israel let him leave yet clamor for Pollards release?

Because he kept babbling himself to death even after being released. We didn't check on him just because we felt like it, it's not like Israel doesn't have anything better do than chasing an old fart. But then he converted to Christianity and left to America where he was appreciated by them (imagine that) and says he doesn't want anything to do with Israel. In return we said, "Sayonara, asshole," gave him the boot and that was that.

Well...and now you are getting Pollard, a similar asshole, and I'm sure he will be "much appreciated" - at least he wasn't kept in solitary confinement.

 

[Lipush]

He served 30 years, we can be happy for his release. Or is it fair only when American calls for release of killers out of Israeli prisons?

How would you feel if he were an American spy spying on Israel and selling Israeli secrets?

Like Mordechai Va'anunu? It's not something we don't know. already.

Not to mention that uncaught American spies are all over Israel. Difference is, Americans believe its their right to spy, but don't ever let anyone check THEM out.

Actually - what you attribute to "Americans" applies to everyone around the world. You believe you have the right to spy but no one else? Again - how would you feel if you caught an American spy doing what Pollard did - spying on Israel and attempting to negotiate arms illegal arms deals with Iranians, Pakistanis? Meh.

Bottom line is, everyone spies on everyone. That's per fact. Pollard was punished and did his time. It is natural to feel overjoyed that after 30 years in prison he's finally released. I don't see any reason to apologize for it. Sorry.

First statement - we're agreed on. Who said you should apologize? And - do you expect us to feel "overjoyed" ?

Never said such a thing, or implied to that. However, I do know that Iranian spies were given hilarious punishments for worse crimes. That surely didn't make Israel "overjoyed".

 

[Lipush]

Mordechai Vanunu - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Mordechai Vanunu (Hebrew: מרדכי ואנונו‎; born 14 October 1954), also known as John Crossman,[2][3] is an Israeli former nuclear technician who, citing his opposition to weapons of mass destruction, revealed details of Israel's nuclear weapons program to the British press in 1986.[4][5] He was subsequently lured to Italy by a Mossad agent, where he was drugged and abducted by Israeli intelligence agents.[4] He was transported to Israel and ultimately convicted in a trial that was held behind closed doors.[4]


Vanunu spent 18 years in prison, including more than 11 in solitary confinement. Released from prison in 2004, he became subject to a broad array of restrictions on his speech and movement. Since then he has been arrested several times for violations of those restrictions, including giving various interviews to foreign journalists and attempting to leave Israel. He says he suffered "cruel and barbaric treatment" at the hands of Israeli authorities while imprisoned, and suggests that his treatment would have been different if he had not converted to Christianity from Judaism.[6]


In 2007, Vanunu was sentenced to six months in prison for violating terms of his parole. The sentence was considered unusual even by the prosecution who expected a suspended sentence. In response, Amnesty International issued a press release on 2 July 2007, stating that "The organisation considers Mordechai Vanunu to be a prisoner of conscience and calls for his immediate and unconditional release."[7] In May 2010, Vanunu was arrested and sentenced to three months in jail on a charge that he met foreigners in violation of conditions of his 2004 release from jail.​

Vanunu has been characterized internationally as a whistleblower[8][9] and by Israel as a traitor.[10][11][12][13] Daniel Ellsberg has referred to him as "the preeminent hero of the nuclear era".[14]
​

I was not familiar with Vanunu so I looked him up. Rather interesting the striking disparities in treatment between Pollard and Vanunu. Eleven years in solitary confinement is barbaric to say the least. Why won't Israel let him leave yet clamor for Pollards release?

Because he kept babbling himself to death even after being released. We didn't check on him just because we felt like it, it's not like Israel doesn't have anything better do than chasing an old fart. But then he converted to Christianity and left to America where he was appreciated by them (imagine that) and says he doesn't want anything to do with Israel. In return we said, "Sayonara, asshole," gave him the boot and that was that.

Well...and now you are getting Pollard, a similar asshole, and I'm sure he will be "much appreciated" - at least he wasn't kept in solitary confinement.

He's appreciated for many things, but that's a different argument.

 

[Roudy]

Pollard deserved to be punished, but because it was Israel they threw the book at him and made and example out of him, and he ended up getting much more than others with similar crimes.

 

[Coyote]

I would be more sympathetic if his motives were more altruistic but they weren't - they were just plain greed. And illegal arms dealing is not a very good thing to do.

 

[fanger]

Mordechai Vanunu - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Mordechai Vanunu (Hebrew: מרדכי ואנונו‎; born 14 October 1954), also known as John Crossman,[2][3] is an Israeli former nuclear technician who, citing his opposition to weapons of mass destruction, revealed details of Israel's nuclear weapons program to the British press in 1986.[4][5] He was subsequently lured to Italy by a Mossad agent, where he was drugged and abducted by Israeli intelligence agents.[4] He was transported to Israel and ultimately convicted in a trial that was held behind closed doors.[4]


Vanunu spent 18 years in prison, including more than 11 in solitary confinement. Released from prison in 2004, he became subject to a broad array of restrictions on his speech and movement. Since then he has been arrested several times for violations of those restrictions, including giving various interviews to foreign journalists and attempting to leave Israel. He says he suffered "cruel and barbaric treatment" at the hands of Israeli authorities while imprisoned, and suggests that his treatment would have been different if he had not converted to Christianity from Judaism.[6]


In 2007, Vanunu was sentenced to six months in prison for violating terms of his parole. The sentence was considered unusual even by the prosecution who expected a suspended sentence. In response, Amnesty International issued a press release on 2 July 2007, stating that "The organisation considers Mordechai Vanunu to be a prisoner of conscience and calls for his immediate and unconditional release."[7] In May 2010, Vanunu was arrested and sentenced to three months in jail on a charge that he met foreigners in violation of conditions of his 2004 release from jail.​

Vanunu has been characterized internationally as a whistleblower[8][9] and by Israel as a traitor.[10][11][12][13] Daniel Ellsberg has referred to him as "the preeminent hero of the nuclear era".[14]
​

I was not familiar with Vanunu so I looked him up. Rather interesting the striking disparities in treatment between Pollard and Vanunu. Eleven years in solitary confinement is barbaric to say the least. Why won't Israel let him leave yet clamor for Pollards release?

Because he kept babbling himself to death even after being released. We didn't check on him just because we felt like it, it's not like Israel doesn't have anything better do than chasing an old fart. But then he converted to Christianity and left to America where he was appreciated by them (imagine that) and says he doesn't want anything to do with Israel. In return we said, "Sayonara, asshole," gave him the boot and that was that.

Mordechai Vanunu is still being held in Israel, and is not free to leave

 

[aris2chat]

Mordechai Vanunu - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Mordechai Vanunu (Hebrew: מרדכי ואנונו‎; born 14 October 1954), also known as John Crossman,[2][3] is an Israeli former nuclear technician who, citing his opposition to weapons of mass destruction, revealed details of Israel's nuclear weapons program to the British press in 1986.[4][5] He was subsequently lured to Italy by a Mossad agent, where he was drugged and abducted by Israeli intelligence agents.[4] He was transported to Israel and ultimately convicted in a trial that was held behind closed doors.[4]


Vanunu spent 18 years in prison, including more than 11 in solitary confinement. Released from prison in 2004, he became subject to a broad array of restrictions on his speech and movement. Since then he has been arrested several times for violations of those restrictions, including giving various interviews to foreign journalists and attempting to leave Israel. He says he suffered "cruel and barbaric treatment" at the hands of Israeli authorities while imprisoned, and suggests that his treatment would have been different if he had not converted to Christianity from Judaism.[6]


In 2007, Vanunu was sentenced to six months in prison for violating terms of his parole. The sentence was considered unusual even by the prosecution who expected a suspended sentence. In response, Amnesty International issued a press release on 2 July 2007, stating that "The organisation considers Mordechai Vanunu to be a prisoner of conscience and calls for his immediate and unconditional release."[7] In May 2010, Vanunu was arrested and sentenced to three months in jail on a charge that he met foreigners in violation of conditions of his 2004 release from jail.​

Vanunu has been characterized internationally as a whistleblower[8][9] and by Israel as a traitor.[10][11][12][13] Daniel Ellsberg has referred to him as "the preeminent hero of the nuclear era".[14]
​

I was not familiar with Vanunu so I looked him up. Rather interesting the striking disparities in treatment between Pollard and Vanunu. Eleven years in solitary confinement is barbaric to say the least. Why won't Israel let him leave yet clamor for Pollards release?

Because he kept babbling himself to death even after being released. We didn't check on him just because we felt like it, it's not like Israel doesn't have anything better do than chasing an old fart. But then he converted to Christianity and left to America where he was appreciated by them (imagine that) and says he doesn't want anything to do with Israel. In return we said, "Sayonara, asshole," gave him the boot and that was that.

Well...and now you are getting Pollard, a similar asshole, and I'm sure he will be "much appreciated" - at least he wasn't kept in solitary confinement.

you are joking, he spent seven years in solitary.

 

[Coyote]

Mordechai Vanunu - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Mordechai Vanunu (Hebrew: מרדכי ואנונו‎; born 14 October 1954), also known as John Crossman,[2][3] is an Israeli former nuclear technician who, citing his opposition to weapons of mass destruction, revealed details of Israel's nuclear weapons program to the British press in 1986.[4][5] He was subsequently lured to Italy by a Mossad agent, where he was drugged and abducted by Israeli intelligence agents.[4] He was transported to Israel and ultimately convicted in a trial that was held behind closed doors.[4]


Vanunu spent 18 years in prison, including more than 11 in solitary confinement. Released from prison in 2004, he became subject to a broad array of restrictions on his speech and movement. Since then he has been arrested several times for violations of those restrictions, including giving various interviews to foreign journalists and attempting to leave Israel. He says he suffered "cruel and barbaric treatment" at the hands of Israeli authorities while imprisoned, and suggests that his treatment would have been different if he had not converted to Christianity from Judaism.[6]


In 2007, Vanunu was sentenced to six months in prison for violating terms of his parole. The sentence was considered unusual even by the prosecution who expected a suspended sentence. In response, Amnesty International issued a press release on 2 July 2007, stating that "The organisation considers Mordechai Vanunu to be a prisoner of conscience and calls for his immediate and unconditional release."[7] In May 2010, Vanunu was arrested and sentenced to three months in jail on a charge that he met foreigners in violation of conditions of his 2004 release from jail.​

Vanunu has been characterized internationally as a whistleblower[8][9] and by Israel as a traitor.[10][11][12][13] Daniel Ellsberg has referred to him as "the preeminent hero of the nuclear era".[14]
​

I was not familiar with Vanunu so I looked him up. Rather interesting the striking disparities in treatment between Pollard and Vanunu. Eleven years in solitary confinement is barbaric to say the least. Why won't Israel let him leave yet clamor for Pollards release?

Because he kept babbling himself to death even after being released. We didn't check on him just because we felt like it, it's not like Israel doesn't have anything better do than chasing an old fart. But then he converted to Christianity and left to America where he was appreciated by them (imagine that) and says he doesn't want anything to do with Israel. In return we said, "Sayonara, asshole," gave him the boot and that was that.

Well...and now you are getting Pollard, a similar asshole, and I'm sure he will be "much appreciated" - at least he wasn't kept in solitary confinement.

you are joking, he spent seven years in solitary.

My mistake.

 

[Roudy]

When you spy on your own country you have to be ready for the ultimate punishment. In some countries spies are just executed.

 

[Coyote]

When you spy on your own country you have to be ready for the ultimate punishment. In some countries spies are just executed.

That is true, but I think solitary confinement is barbaric - 30 year sentance? Sure. But solitary IS torture.

 

[Roudy]

When you spy on your own country you have to be ready for the ultimate punishment. In some countries spies are just executed.

That is true, but I think solitary confinement is barbaric - 30 year sentance? Sure. But solitary IS torture.

I agree, solitary is one people on death row get. Which is why Pollard's punishment was excessive by comparison.

 

[pbel]

If anything is really known about why peace has alluded the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is the Power of the political influence that Israel has over American Politics and Security via AIPAC and others...

No, it's because the "Palestinians" are nothing more than a proxy army for nations and organizations unwilling to suffer the consequences of attacking Israel.

Jonathan Pollard: Israel making a hero out of this dirt-bag is indicative that Israel's interests above all trump America's...

That is a given. They are a sovereign nation surrounded by enemies and potential enemies. Our interests trump all other nations as well, except under Obama, who is essentially a shill for those who would destroy us.

You are correct on both points....The Palestinians are the Pawns for the entire ME because they now lack the military power or the nukes needed to successfully war on Israel...That gap is closing, and frankly, I can't see how these enemies of Western Colonialism can keep the Arabs from obtaining nukes unless Israel makes peace to the 67 lines they (Arabs) are willing to accept in their collective peace offerings.

How does Israel making peace (tough to do unilaterally) end the Arab/Muslim nuke parade? Pakistan has 'em, paid for by the Saudis who have publically stated that if Iran get nukes they will too (none of which is contingent upon Israel making peace).

""How does Israel making peace (tough to do unilaterally) end the Arab/Muslim nuke parade? Pakistan has 'em, paid for by the Saudis who have publically stated that if Iran get nukes they will too (none of which is contingent upon Israel making peace)."

The Arab League has made many offers for Israel, for recognition, exchange of Embassies and most importantly Trade...

Trade builds relationships and trust, it also should benefit the Economic Conditions for all parties.

But the Arabs have also made it clear that Jerusalem is holy to them and they will never give up E. Jerusalem...Neither will the Jews...

Internationalize it like the original UN Partition Plan, this way neither party loses anything...

Can this plan work today? The Arab Spring has radicalized the ME to frightening proportions, it is however worth the try, but I fear it may be too late....

Israel's Nukes can not protect her, because enemies in International Relations always want armament parity, and they succeed...Only a real peace acceptable by the Palestinians, and the Arab League can Israel mobilize with the Arabs to keep Iran off balance.

If peace is not made, the Nukes will.

 

[aris2chat]

If anything is really known about why peace has alluded the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is the Power of the political influence that Israel has over American Politics and Security via AIPAC and others...

No, it's because the "Palestinians" are nothing more than a proxy army for nations and organizations unwilling to suffer the consequences of attacking Israel.

Jonathan Pollard: Israel making a hero out of this dirt-bag is indicative that Israel's interests above all trump America's...

That is a given. They are a sovereign nation surrounded by enemies and potential enemies. Our interests trump all other nations as well, except under Obama, who is essentially a shill for those who would destroy us.

You are correct on both points....The Palestinians are the Pawns for the entire ME because they now lack the military power or the nukes needed to successfully war on Israel...That gap is closing, and frankly, I can't see how these enemies of Western Colonialism can keep the Arabs from obtaining nukes unless Israel makes peace to the 67 lines they (Arabs) are willing to accept in their collective peace offerings.

How does Israel making peace (tough to do unilaterally) end the Arab/Muslim nuke parade? Pakistan has 'em, paid for by the Saudis who have publically stated that if Iran get nukes they will too (none of which is contingent upon Israel making peace).

""How does Israel making peace (tough to do unilaterally) end the Arab/Muslim nuke parade? Pakistan has 'em, paid for by the Saudis who have publically stated that if Iran get nukes they will too (none of which is contingent upon Israel making peace)."

The Arab League has made many offers for Israel, for recognition, exchange of Embassies and most importantly Trade...

Trade builds relationships and trust, it also should benefit the Economic Conditions for all parties.

But the Arabs have also made it clear that Jerusalem is holy to them and they will never give up E. Jerusalem...Neither will the Jews...

Internationalize it like the original UN Partition Plan, this way neither party loses anything...

Can this plan work today? The Arab Spring has radicalized the ME to frightening proportions, it is however worth the try, but I fear it may be too late....

Israel's Nukes can not protect her, because enemies in International Relations always want armament parity, and they succeed...Only a real peace acceptable by the Palestinians, and the Arab League can Israel mobilize with the Arabs to keep Iran off balance.

If peace is not made, the Nukes will.

Arab can present ideas but it us to the palestinians to abide by any agreement. Some countries have begun to normalize relations, if not officially.

The palestinians have to have a unity government and hamas is not about to let that happen. Even with erakat he cannot speak for all the palestinians if hamas is calling for war on both the PA and Israel. Granted Iran and the UN won't finance them any more but hamas don't seem to care, just yet.

When the palestinians want peace they will come to an agreement. There can be no state without peace first.

Israel has made peace with jordan and egypt, and had an agreement with lebanon which syria prevented from being ratified. The problem is not Israel, it is that Israel does not have a partner in the peace process. Israel is tired of waiting and being under threat. Till the palestinians are ready, Israel will consider their security first and foremost. PA has already threatened to dissolve the authority government and hand the WB over to Israel if hamas will not help them form a unity government. The PA cannot exist in a limbo with no ability to do anything.

 

[SAYIT]

If anything is really known about why peace has alluded the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is the Power of the political influence that Israel has over American Politics and Security via AIPAC and others...

No, it's because the "Palestinians" are nothing more than a proxy army for nations and organizations unwilling to suffer the consequences of attacking Israel.

Jonathan Pollard: Israel making a hero out of this dirt-bag is indicative that Israel's interests above all trump America's...

That is a given. They are a sovereign nation surrounded by enemies and potential enemies. Our interests trump all other nations as well, except under Obama, who is essentially a shill for those who would destroy us.

You are correct on both points....The Palestinians are the Pawns for the entire ME because they now lack the military power or the nukes needed to successfully war on Israel...That gap is closing, and frankly, I can't see how these enemies of Western Colonialism can keep the Arabs from obtaining nukes unless Israel makes peace to the 67 lines they (Arabs) are willing to accept in their collective peace offerings.

How does Israel making peace (tough to do unilaterally) end the Arab/Muslim nuke parade? Pakistan has 'em, paid for by the Saudis who have publically stated that if Iran get nukes they will too (none of which is contingent upon Israel making peace).

""How does Israel making peace (tough to do unilaterally) end the Arab/Muslim nuke parade? Pakistan has 'em, paid for by the Saudis who have publically stated that if Iran get nukes they will too (none of which is contingent upon Israel making peace)."

The Arab League has made many offers for Israel, for recognition, exchange of Embassies and most importantly Trade...

Trade builds relationships and trust, it also should benefit the Economic Conditions for all parties.

But the Arabs have also made it clear that Jerusalem is holy to them and they will never give up E. Jerusalem...Neither will the Jews...

Internationalize it like the original UN Partition Plan, this way neither party loses anything...

Can this plan work today? The Arab Spring has radicalized the ME to frightening proportions, it is however worth the try, but I fear it may be too late....

Israel's Nukes can not protect her, because enemies in International Relations always want armament parity, and they succeed...Only a real peace acceptable by the Palestinians, and the Arab League can Israel mobilize with the Arabs to keep Iran off balance.

If peace is not made, the Nukes will.

You just danced around your bogus claim that Israeli/Palestinian peace would end the Arab quest for nukes. Even if we agree that Israel has had them for decades it only validates the fact that Iran's nuclear program is the real motivator. Arab/Muslim states clearly don't feel threatened by Israel but do feel threatened by Iran. Can you explain that?

 

[Roudy]

If anything is really known about why peace has alluded the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is the Power of the political influence that Israel has over American Politics and Security via AIPAC and others...

No, it's because the "Palestinians" are nothing more than a proxy army for nations and organizations unwilling to suffer the consequences of attacking Israel.

Jonathan Pollard: Israel making a hero out of this dirt-bag is indicative that Israel's interests above all trump America's...

That is a given. They are a sovereign nation surrounded by enemies and potential enemies. Our interests trump all other nations as well, except under Obama, who is essentially a shill for those who would destroy us.

You are correct on both points....The Palestinians are the Pawns for the entire ME because they now lack the military power or the nukes needed to successfully war on Israel...That gap is closing, and frankly, I can't see how these enemies of Western Colonialism can keep the Arabs from obtaining nukes unless Israel makes peace to the 67 lines they (Arabs) are willing to accept in their collective peace offerings.

How does Israel making peace (tough to do unilaterally) end the Arab/Muslim nuke parade? Pakistan has 'em, paid for by the Saudis who have publically stated that if Iran get nukes they will too (none of which is contingent upon Israel making peace).

""How does Israel making peace (tough to do unilaterally) end the Arab/Muslim nuke parade? Pakistan has 'em, paid for by the Saudis who have publically stated that if Iran get nukes they will too (none of which is contingent upon Israel making peace)."

The Arab League has made many offers for Israel, for recognition, exchange of Embassies and most importantly Trade...

Trade builds relationships and trust, it also should benefit the Economic Conditions for all parties.

But the Arabs have also made it clear that Jerusalem is holy to them and they will never give up E. Jerusalem...Neither will the Jews...

Internationalize it like the original UN Partition Plan, this way neither party loses anything...

Can this plan work today? The Arab Spring has radicalized the ME to frightening proportions, it is however worth the try, but I fear it may be too late....

Israel's Nukes can not protect her, because enemies in International Relations always want armament parity, and they succeed...Only a real peace acceptable by the Palestinians, and the Arab League can Israel mobilize with the Arabs to keep Iran off balance.

If peace is not made, the Nukes will.

You just danced around your bogus claim that Israeli/Palestinian peace would end the Arab quest for nukes. Even if we agree that Israel has had them for decades it only validates the fact that Iran's nuclear program is the real motivator. Arab/Muslim states clearly don't feel threatened by Israel but do feel threatened by Iran. Can you explain that?

The Sunnis are more worried that the Shiite will hit the fan, than about Israel.