Trans Canada decides $700,000.00 Keystone safety investment to much

[Samson]

Read The End of Country by Seamus McGraw. His neighborhood suffered from an explosion and a succeeding public health disaster that was half-heartedly handled by environmental protection agencies and Cabot Oil and Gas, the company at fault. The EPA failed to act as well until it was too late. In other words, it was environmental regulators and big oil, working in harmony to cover up the fiasco. In turn, my hatred for state and federal environmental regulators and fossil fuel companies is not mutually exclusive.

By "half-heartedly handled by the EPA," I'm guessing you mean in the subjective opinion of the author, Seamus McGraw.



Get back to me when you receive information that is objective, and have something more than conspiracy theories: Last summer wells were fracced about 300 yards from my back yard. It was loud for a few days, but that was it.

Not at all. That is my reaction to his accounts, not his. Oh, just so you know, McGraw has a natural gas platform on his property as well, and he has had to deal with spills and leaks. He is still working out the issues with Cabot Oil and Gas, according to the last update that I received from him from my sources on his plight.

By the way, environmental protection agencies is not the EPA. In the statement you quote, I refer to more than one environmental protection agency, namely the local and state authorities.

Ok I agree, it's your own subjective opinion.

So, back to square ONE: you have no documented evidence of any, "Explosion being wiped under the rug."

The reason I am certain this is an absurd statement is because I actually know of Explosions, and NONE have been ignored. You seem to believe oil and gas companies cannot be sued by relatives of anyone injured in an accident that they may have prevented.

This is simply ridiculous.

Many have been sued and will be sued: It is in their interest to investigate all explosions, determine the cause, and prevent them in the future.

 

[Mr. H.]

I deal with state environmental authorities, and it ain't no picnic.

 

[Sallow]

What's your idea of fun Mr. Dean? Mocking republicans ?

Keystone XL basically nixed the idea of installing state of the art detection systems on their pipes. This would give them a mechanism to alert them of breaches in real time. Given that XL doesn't even have a real disaster recovery plan for major tar sands spills, this should be really troubling.

Well?

Do you find it troubling?

I find the lack of reference in your post troubling.

I also find the use of disqualifying modifiers troubling.

E.G.: "'basically' nixed" and "a 'real' disaster recovery plan"

In fact, they have not decided to install NO detection system: They have decided to install a detection system other than one you would call "state-of-the-art."

In fact, they MUST have a disaster recovery plan, regardless of how "real" you think it might be.

Except that:

A. They've decided to use a disaster recovery plan that isn't used for tar sand oil. And they can ram it through congress because they have lots of corporate cash to do so.

B. Sure they have a detection system. It's reliance on state workers that check on the pipe line. Generally that doesn't work. What happens is that tons of oil spills out first THEN the company reacts. How does it generally react?

It calls on the government and tax payers to clean up and fund it.

 

[Samson]

I deal with state environmental authorities, and it ain't no picnic.

Obviously, you're not bribing them enough, 'cause, you know, every EPA authority is crooked....They MUST be, or there'd be many more reports of Explosions and such. Certainly, the possibility that there ARE NO ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES must be completely ignored in favor of my paranoia.

 

[Mr. H.]

I deal with state environmental authorities, and it ain't no picnic.

Obviously, you're not bribing them enough, 'cause, you know, every EPA authority is crooked....They MUST be, or there'd be many more reports of Explosions and such. Certainly, the possibility that there ARE NO ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES must be completely ignored in favor of my paranoia.

And I don't have enough "frequent access".

 

[Mr. H.]

Keystone XL basically nixed the idea of installing state of the art detection systems on their pipes. This would give them a mechanism to alert them of breaches in real time. Given that XL doesn't even have a real disaster recovery plan for major tar sands spills, this should be really troubling.

Well?

Do you find it troubling?

I find the lack of reference in your post troubling.

I also find the use of disqualifying modifiers troubling.

E.G.: "'basically' nixed" and "a 'real' disaster recovery plan"

In fact, they have not decided to install NO detection system: They have decided to install a detection system other than one you would call "state-of-the-art."

In fact, they MUST have a disaster recovery plan, regardless of how "real" you think it might be.

Except that:

A. They've decided to use a disaster recovery plan that isn't used for tar sand oil. And they can ram it through congress because they have lots of corporate cash to do so.

B. Sure they have a detection system. It's reliance on state workers that check on the pipe line. Generally that doesn't work. What happens is that tons of oil spills out first THEN the company reacts. How does it generally react?

It calls on the government and tax payers to clean up and fund it.

How do the disaster recovery plans differ between standard gravity crudes and tar sand oil?

And who is monitoring the 750 million pounds of 20,000 different chemicals that agriculture uses annually? That shit is applied directly to the land, seeps into aquifers, and pollutes air and water.

 

[Sallow]

I find the lack of reference in your post troubling.

I also find the use of disqualifying modifiers troubling.

E.G.: "'basically' nixed" and "a 'real' disaster recovery plan"

In fact, they have not decided to install NO detection system: They have decided to install a detection system other than one you would call "state-of-the-art."

In fact, they MUST have a disaster recovery plan, regardless of how "real" you think it might be.

Except that:

A. They've decided to use a disaster recovery plan that isn't used for tar sand oil. And they can ram it through congress because they have lots of corporate cash to do so.

B. Sure they have a detection system. It's reliance on state workers that check on the pipe line. Generally that doesn't work. What happens is that tons of oil spills out first THEN the company reacts. How does it generally react?

It calls on the government and tax payers to clean up and fund it.

How do the disaster recovery plans differ between standard gravity crudes and tar sand oil?

And who is monitoring the 750 million pounds of 20,000 different chemicals that agriculture uses annually? That shit is applied directly to the land, seeps into aquifers, and pollutes air and water.

I dunno man...you tell me.

I haven't worked in the oil industry and have worked for disaster recovery for IT. And if we pushed the same sort of nonsense I see being pushed by the oil company in front of the government in the financial industry?

They'd laugh us out of town.

The one thing the government expects the in the Financial industry is the ability to trade anytime anywhere.

Shutting down the trading engines for any length of time is completely unacceptable.

 

[eagle1462010]

Bloomberg Businessweek calculated that it would cost about $705,000 — $5,000 per mile — to install advanced fiber-optic cable technology along 141 critical miles of the pipeline, areas where drinking water, ecosystems, and population centers are at risk. That’s hardly a drop in the bucket compared to the overall $5.3 billion cost of the pipeline. And investing in better spill-detection technology pays off:

Equipment available to spot spills more quickly would have cut 75 percent off the estimated $1.7 billion toll in property damage caused by major incidents on oil lines from 2001 to 2011, consultants said in a December report prepared for the [U.S. Transportation Department].

Internal systems such as the one planned for Keystone XL have a spotty record catching leaks, according to the Transportation Department’s report, prepared by the engineering firm Kiefner & Associates Inc., of Worthington, Ohio. Members of the public reported 23 percent of the 197 oil and liquids pipeline leaks between January 2010 and July 2012, according to the study, compared to 17 percent identified by the pipeline companies.

Keystone XL won't use state-of-the-art spill technology

I can never understand why Republicans aren't bothered by this stuff.

The reason Obama gets to choose is because this pipeline is "international", meaning it's "foreign oil", Republicans "oil of choice".

LOL

The estimaters don't have a Freakin Clue about the cost. Price 24 pair direct burial cable by itself per mile and get back to me.

Secondly, It has to be in conduit. It has to have substations and DCS stations along the way.

3rd. Fiber Optic cable without the monitoring Equipment is useless. Instrument prices could be 15,000 for 1 instrument.

You could install a Wifi Grid cheaper and use wireless transmitters with small solar grids a hell of a lot cheaper, but even that type of install would cost a hell of a lot more than $5,000 a mile.

Who ever wrote this or came up with this estimate is an IDIOT.

 

[Mr. H.]

I guess my point is... this is picking shit off flies.

I don't mean to downgrade the seriousness of a pipeline leak, but when you consider the sheer volume of crude and products traveling under our feet 24/7 and compare that to industry safety records well it's a pretty damn insignificant threat to environment.

And I mention agriculture by way of trying to put this shit in perspective. Never a peep from press or public while farmers continue to openly spew poisons all around us. And they have a license to continue to do so in perpetuity.

Finally... in 2009 the State Department approved, and Obama signed off on the Alberta Clipper pipeline. Same project in size and scope. Hillary bragged about it and State touted all the "shovel ready jobs" that it would create.

Here, read for yourselves...

After considerable review and evaluation, on August 20, 2009, the Department issued a Presidential Permit to Enbridge Energy, Limited Partnership for the Alberta Clipper pipeline. In evaluating the Enbridge application, the Department worked in consultation with all relevant agencies and parties and with extensive public and stakeholder participation and outreach.


The Department found that the addition of crude oil pipeline capacity between Canada and the United States will advance a number of strategic interests of the United States. These included increasing the diversity of available supplies among the United States’ worldwide crude oil sources in a time of considerable political tension in other major oil producing countries and regions; shortening the transportation pathway for crude oil supplies; and increasing crude oil supplies from a major non-Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries producer. Canada is a stable and reliable ally and trading partner of the United States, with which we have free trade agreements which augment the security of this energy supply.

Permit for Alberta Clipper Pipeline Issued

 

[Sallow]

I guess my point is... this is picking shit off flies.

I don't mean to downgrade the seriousness of a pipeline leak, but when you consider the sheer volume of crude and products traveling under our feet 24/7 and compare that to industry safety records well it's a pretty damn insignificant threat to environment.

And I mention agriculture by way of trying to put this shit in perspective. Never a peep from press or public while farmers continue to openly spew poisons all around us. And they have a license to continue to do so in perpetuity.

Finally... in 2009 the State Department approved, and Obama signed off on the Alberta Clipper pipeline. Same project in size and scope. Hillary bragged about it and State touted all the "shovel ready jobs" that it would create.

Here, read for yourselves...

After considerable review and evaluation, on August 20, 2009, the Department issued a Presidential Permit to Enbridge Energy, Limited Partnership for the Alberta Clipper pipeline. In evaluating the Enbridge application, the Department worked in consultation with all relevant agencies and parties and with extensive public and stakeholder participation and outreach.


The Department found that the addition of crude oil pipeline capacity between Canada and the United States will advance a number of strategic interests of the United States. These included increasing the diversity of available supplies among the United States’ worldwide crude oil sources in a time of considerable political tension in other major oil producing countries and regions; shortening the transportation pathway for crude oil supplies; and increasing crude oil supplies from a major non-Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries producer. Canada is a stable and reliable ally and trading partner of the United States, with which we have free trade agreements which augment the security of this energy supply.

Permit for Alberta Clipper Pipeline Issued

Which kinda goes to show you that Obama isn't the "green socialist enemy of big oil" many folks make him out to be.

In fact, Ken Salazar was a big oil guy that turned a blind eye to the BP rig. Additionally they okayed a deep water rig in Alaska.

UPDATE 3-Drifting Shell drilling rig grounds on rocks off Alaska | Reuters

They finally had to give up on it.

It isn't the Obama administration that's driving the fight against Keystone, it's the states.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What's your idea of fun Mr. Dean? Mocking republicans ?

Keystone XL basically nixed the idea of installing state of the art detection systems on their pipes. This would give them a mechanism to alert them of breaches in real time. Given that XL doesn't even have a real disaster recovery plan for major tar sands spills, this should be really troubling.

Well?

Do you find it troubling?

Are they state of the art, or are they expensive attempts to extort money form people you don't like? Do you have a link to the actual tech so people who are smarter than the average 1st grader can look at it?

 

[Mr. H.]

I guess my point is... this is picking shit off flies.

I don't mean to downgrade the seriousness of a pipeline leak, but when you consider the sheer volume of crude and products traveling under our feet 24/7 and compare that to industry safety records well it's a pretty damn insignificant threat to environment.

And I mention agriculture by way of trying to put this shit in perspective. Never a peep from press or public while farmers continue to openly spew poisons all around us. And they have a license to continue to do so in perpetuity.

Finally... in 2009 the State Department approved, and Obama signed off on the Alberta Clipper pipeline. Same project in size and scope. Hillary bragged about it and State touted all the "shovel ready jobs" that it would create.

Here, read for yourselves...

After considerable review and evaluation, on August 20, 2009, the Department issued a Presidential Permit to Enbridge Energy, Limited Partnership for the Alberta Clipper pipeline. In evaluating the Enbridge application, the Department worked in consultation with all relevant agencies and parties and with extensive public and stakeholder participation and outreach.


The Department found that the addition of crude oil pipeline capacity between Canada and the United States will advance a number of strategic interests of the United States. These included increasing the diversity of available supplies among the United States’ worldwide crude oil sources in a time of considerable political tension in other major oil producing countries and regions; shortening the transportation pathway for crude oil supplies; and increasing crude oil supplies from a major non-Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries producer. Canada is a stable and reliable ally and trading partner of the United States, with which we have free trade agreements which augment the security of this energy supply.

Permit for Alberta Clipper Pipeline Issued

Which kinda goes to show you that Obama isn't the "green socialist enemy of big oil" many folks make him out to be.

In fact, Ken Salazar was a big oil guy that turned a blind eye to the BP rig. Additionally they okayed a deep water rig in Alaska.

UPDATE 3-Drifting Shell drilling rig grounds on rocks off Alaska | Reuters

They finally had to give up on it.

It isn't the Obama administration that's driving the fight against Keystone, it's the states.

I think it shows that Obama is selectively applying his muscle, and he has no merit for rejecting KXL.

Salazar could have been worse, I'll grant that, but there's so much more he could have/should have done that he didn't do.

Unless I'm mistaken, the states directly affected by KXL have since given this pipeline the green light. What IS driving the fight is the Liberal media, environmental groups, and the 47%'ers.

Re: Obama and his green socialist agenda... keep in mind that still residing in his yet to be approved budget is over $40 billion in new taxes on oil and gas.

He is out to slaughter hydrocarbons. And jobs. And GDP. And balance of payments.

In short, Obama is the worst fuck stick ever to descend upon our society, our economy, and our Constitution.

 

[rdean]

What's your idea of fun Mr. Dean? Mocking republicans ?

I don't mock Republicans. Republicans mock common sense. And along with common sense, they mock education, science, technology, teachers, and "smart" people who thy mockingly refer to as the elitists.

 

[rdean]

I guess my point is... this is picking shit off flies.

I don't mean to downgrade the seriousness of a pipeline leak, but when you consider the sheer volume of crude and products traveling under our feet 24/7 and compare that to industry safety records well it's a pretty damn insignificant threat to environment.

And I mention agriculture by way of trying to put this shit in perspective. Never a peep from press or public while farmers continue to openly spew poisons all around us. And they have a license to continue to do so in perpetuity.

Finally... in 2009 the State Department approved, and Obama signed off on the Alberta Clipper pipeline. Same project in size and scope. Hillary bragged about it and State touted all the "shovel ready jobs" that it would create.

Here, read for yourselves...

After considerable review and evaluation, on August 20, 2009, the Department issued a Presidential Permit to Enbridge Energy, Limited Partnership for the Alberta Clipper pipeline. In evaluating the Enbridge application, the Department worked in consultation with all relevant agencies and parties and with extensive public and stakeholder participation and outreach.


The Department found that the addition of crude oil pipeline capacity between Canada and the United States will advance a number of strategic interests of the United States. These included increasing the diversity of available supplies among the United States’ worldwide crude oil sources in a time of considerable political tension in other major oil producing countries and regions; shortening the transportation pathway for crude oil supplies; and increasing crude oil supplies from a major non-Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries producer. Canada is a stable and reliable ally and trading partner of the United States, with which we have free trade agreements which augment the security of this energy supply.

Permit for Alberta Clipper Pipeline Issued

Which kinda goes to show you that Obama isn't the "green socialist enemy of big oil" many folks make him out to be.

In fact, Ken Salazar was a big oil guy that turned a blind eye to the BP rig. Additionally they okayed a deep water rig in Alaska.

UPDATE 3-Drifting Shell drilling rig grounds on rocks off Alaska | Reuters

They finally had to give up on it.

It isn't the Obama administration that's driving the fight against Keystone, it's the states.

I think it shows that Obama is selectively applying his muscle, and he has no merit for rejecting KXL.

Salazar could have been worse, I'll grant that, but there's so much more he could have/should have done that he didn't do.

Unless I'm mistaken, the states directly affected by KXL have since given this pipeline the green light. What IS driving the fight is the Liberal media, environmental groups, and the 47%'ers.

Re: Obama and his green socialist agenda... keep in mind that still residing in his yet to be approved budget is over $40 billion in new taxes on oil and gas.

He is out to slaughter hydrocarbons. And jobs. And GDP. And balance of payments.

In short, Obama is the worst fuck stick ever to descend upon our society, our economy, and our Constitution.

cuz he's black.

 

[Mr. H.]

Which kinda goes to show you that Obama isn't the "green socialist enemy of big oil" many folks make him out to be.

In fact, Ken Salazar was a big oil guy that turned a blind eye to the BP rig. Additionally they okayed a deep water rig in Alaska.

UPDATE 3-Drifting Shell drilling rig grounds on rocks off Alaska | Reuters

They finally had to give up on it.

It isn't the Obama administration that's driving the fight against Keystone, it's the states.

I think it shows that Obama is selectively applying his muscle, and he has no merit for rejecting KXL.

Salazar could have been worse, I'll grant that, but there's so much more he could have/should have done that he didn't do.

Unless I'm mistaken, the states directly affected by KXL have since given this pipeline the green light. What IS driving the fight is the Liberal media, environmental groups, and the 47%'ers.

Re: Obama and his green socialist agenda... keep in mind that still residing in his yet to be approved budget is over $40 billion in new taxes on oil and gas.

He is out to slaughter hydrocarbons. And jobs. And GDP. And balance of payments.

In short, Obama is the worst fuck stick ever to descend upon our society, our economy, and our Constitution.

cuz he's black.

You better fucking believe it, he's black. Black is the new un-white.

And the non un-white are the enemy these days.

Get with the program, you stick.

 

[Mr. H.]