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That's a good idea but it won't work as long as parents are intent on seeing their kids graduate from college. A college degree carries about the same weight with employers today as a high school diploma did in the mid 20th century.Different strokes for differ folks, a saying that certainly applies to folks making a decision about education.If you went to school to learn a trade, you must be lesser, because someone long ago decided that college should be called “higher” education. Considering the state of colleges and universities today, the word “higher” may be the most misleading of them all.
The way we speak about education is inherently classist. When a student of lesser means attends a traditional four-year school, we say she “overcame her circumstances.” When a student from a wealthy background chooses a trade school we say he didn’t “live up to expectations.” We are all but telling people that the trade jobs this country needs are dirty, and that skills-based education is for people without means or, much worse, without potential.
First off, everyone should complete their high school education, whether you go to public school, private school, home schooled, or get a GED. Many large companies require a high school education for all jobs if you're over 21. Companies like fast food restaurants, retail sales, construction will hire you but they will do a double take when they see you don't have a high school education. The question is why don't. Completion of education always sends a message to employers that you have the ability to commit yourself to a task and finish it. Without a high school education, you're likely to hit a wage ceiling that can be difficult to surpass.
College is not for everyone. It is for everyone who has the ability to complete college without having to attend diploma mills and seek the easiest degrees. According to the US Census Bureau, a college degree is worth a million bucks over a lifetime.
The right kind of trade school, certification program, etc. can be very valuable to both those with and without college degrees. Many college curriculum particular liberal arts are great at teaching you to think, to study, and to analyze. You'll be able to talk to customers, your peers, and your bosses about a variety of subjects even in different languages. Unfortunately, you probably want have the specifics skills your employer is looking for unless you graduated in one of the hot fields in science or technology. Today in many of the vocational trades, employers want some basic job related education before they even take you on as an apprentice.
What high schools need to do is get away from the "Everyone to college" mindset and incorporate trade classes as electives to let kids get a feel for what they are good at, or at least what they want to try to do.
Isn't the problem that a college degree in aboriginal basket weaving holds NO weight with employers outside academia?
My employer looks for Engineering degrees because we are an Engineering firm. However how much does some media company value degrees outside of things like communications or graphic arts?
Most people that drop out of school, are not Bill Gates. He had an SAT score of 1590 out of 1600. He and Paul Allen started their first business in high school at age 15. Gates was one in million.So, that is why Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffet, and all of those other billionaires went to trade school; right?
Bill Gates dropped out of school. Additionally, the goal of most people attending tech school is to attain practical training and get a good paying, upper middle class job. This used to be considered success, except seems to no longer fit into the progressive narrative. Most practical minded people are not trying to get on the cover of Forbes or win a Nobel Prize.
I agree with much of what you write. College should not be the destination of every high school graduate. However, approximately 70% of high school graduates enroll in college. A college degree today is replacing the high school diploma as the new norm and I don't see that changing.Unfortunately, the advantage that comes from a college degree does not come immediately after graduation for most people. It comes over a period of years as the graduate get's experience and often more education. That's pretty disheartening for someone who worked their ass off for a degree and finds themselves with a college loan to pay off and a crappy job. No wonder so many new graduates bad mouth college.Most people that drop out of school, are not Bill Gates. He had an SAT score of 1590 out of 1600. He and Paul Allen started their first business in high school at age 15. Gates was one in million.So, that is why Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffet, and all of those other billionaires went to trade school; right?
Bill Gates dropped out of school. Additionally, the goal of most people attending tech school is to attain practical training and get a good paying, upper middle class job. This used to be considered success, except seems to no longer fit into the progressive narrative. Most practical minded people are not trying to get on the cover of Forbes or win a Nobel Prize.
Most people that graduate are not Bill Gates either, nor is getting a degree going to turn most people into a multi-billionaire. Using a tiny handful of billionaires as an example is silly. Pointing out that the average college graduate makes more money is a better argument in my opinion.
Also, some of the actual pay increases from getting a higher degree come in public sector jobs funded by taxpayers where there is a policy that getting your Master's or PhD gets you a raise in and of itself. In private industry, it should theoretically give you a competitive advantage over someone who hasn't and actually might, except there is no artificial policy that automatically grants you a raise based on a higher degree. I do not buy the argument that every single graduating High School senior belongs in an institute of higher learning in the first place. There is nothing wrong with getting a High School diploma and a job afterwards. The whole everybody needs to get a college degree is a money making scheme.
Universities should themselves be trade schools. They should be trade schools for elite professions. If you want to be a surgeon, mathematician, physicist, etc. go to college. Third grade teachers do not need a Master's degree in Education to teach third grade reading, writing, and arithmetic.
I agree with much of what you write. College should not be the destination of every high school graduate. However, approximately 70% of high school graduates enroll in college. A college degree today is replacing the high school diploma as the new norm and I don't see that changing.Unfortunately, the advantage that comes from a college degree does not come immediately after graduation for most people. It comes over a period of years as the graduate get's experience and often more education. That's pretty disheartening for someone who worked their ass off for a degree and finds themselves with a college loan to pay off and a crappy job. No wonder so many new graduates bad mouth college.Most people that drop out of school, are not Bill Gates. He had an SAT score of 1590 out of 1600. He and Paul Allen started their first business in high school at age 15. Gates was one in million.Bill Gates dropped out of school. Additionally, the goal of most people attending tech school is to attain practical training and get a good paying, upper middle class job. This used to be considered success, except seems to no longer fit into the progressive narrative. Most practical minded people are not trying to get on the cover of Forbes or win a Nobel Prize.
Most people that graduate are not Bill Gates either, nor is getting a degree going to turn most people into a multi-billionaire. Using a tiny handful of billionaires as an example is silly. Pointing out that the average college graduate makes more money is a better argument in my opinion.
Also, some of the actual pay increases from getting a higher degree come in public sector jobs funded by taxpayers where there is a policy that getting your Master's or PhD gets you a raise in and of itself. In private industry, it should theoretically give you a competitive advantage over someone who hasn't and actually might, except there is no artificial policy that automatically grants you a raise based on a higher degree. I do not buy the argument that every single graduating High School senior belongs in an institute of higher learning in the first place. There is nothing wrong with getting a High School diploma and a job afterwards. The whole everybody needs to get a college degree is a money making scheme.
Universities should themselves be trade schools. They should be trade schools for elite professions. If you want to be a surgeon, mathematician, physicist, etc. go to college. Third grade teachers do not need a Master's degree in Education to teach third grade reading, writing, and arithmetic.
.
It certainly is. I have a grandson that scored over 1500 on his SAT and is failing in almost every subject because he simple doesn't like school. He is also borderline autistic which makes it even more difficult.I don't disagree with anything you said. However, helping your kids determine their best path after high school can be really hard. I have a grandson who scores 1460 on his SAT, makes good grades in math and flunks everything else. He'll be a senior next year but may not graduate. He has no idea what he wants to do.Have you ever heard of "aptitude"?
I have an IQ over 140, but I am a terrible carpenter. Can't make a square cut to save my ass, and I do carpentry around the house all the time. I've tried laying brick, and I can't lay a neat slab of mortar. Can't run a clean or even bead of weld material.
I know guys who can do all that, but who can't spell, or lay out a logical argument to support something they "feel" to be true.
Parents should work to try to figure out where a kid's talents lie, and to help them develop their talents as far as possible. Maybe they have talents that will never lead to a good income, so they have to be shown to either learn to live on the cheap, or find something else that will pay the bills while they play music on the side.
Trouble is, some parents believe that if their kids don't go to college, they will never "amount to anything," which is total bullshit. Shame on such parents.
And always remember, the MOST PROMISING path to financial success in this country is ENTREPRENEURSHIP! There are millions and millions of wildly successful people in this country who are business owners or simply investors, and often, the business has nothing to do with their formal education. They are landscapers, builders, store owners, used car dealers, home-improvement contractors, roofers, consultants, and so on. EVERYONE should consider a small business their first economic goal, then if that doesn't work out, look elsewhere. And it's best to start that small business before you have a wife, kids, and a mortgage.
My oldest son has always been very smart, and learned all of his basic academic courses quickly and easily. But aside from an interest in building airplanes when he was young, he never seemed to show a special aptitude in any specific area. We tried lots of things, but nothing stood out . . . until he got in high school and tried out some crafts classes and one in 3D computer imaging. Turns out that while he doesn't have the standard artistic talent for drawing and painting 2D images, he has a mad genius for how things fit together in 3 dimensions. And while he doesn't have the standard writing and storytelling skills one would look for in a fiction author, he's hell on wheels when it comes to designing and executing elaborate and fascinating roleplaying game(!) storylines. So now he's going to school to become a video game designer.
My youngest has decided that he wants to be a zookeeper, because he loves animals, but doesn't want to have to hurt them (so veterinarian is totally out). We'll see.
Parenting in this day and age is just weird.
Absolutely. However, it's much harder without a degree particularly in high tech fields. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs just happen to be at the right place at the right time. If you don't have a degree and you expect to make real money, then you better be prepared to start your own business because most companies do not promote people into upper management with high school diplomas. It happens but it's rare.Most people that drop out of school, are not Bill Gates. He had an SAT score of 1590 out of 1600. He and Paul Allen started their first business in high school at age 15. Gates was one in million.So, that is why Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffet, and all of those other billionaires went to trade school; right?
Bill Gates dropped out of school. Additionally, the goal of most people attending tech school is to attain practical training and get a good paying, upper middle class job. This used to be considered success, except seems to no longer fit into the progressive narrative. Most practical minded people are not trying to get on the cover of Forbes or win a Nobel Prize.
True, but he's far from the only person in this country who became successful without going to college.
Absolutely. However, it's much harder without a degree particularly in high tech fields. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs just happen to be at the right place at the right time. If you don't have a degree and you expect to make real money, then you better be prepared to start your own business because most companies do not promote people into upper management with high school diplomas. It happens but it's rare.Most people that drop out of school, are not Bill Gates. He had an SAT score of 1590 out of 1600. He and Paul Allen started their first business in high school at age 15. Gates was one in million.So, that is why Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffet, and all of those other billionaires went to trade school; right?
Bill Gates dropped out of school. Additionally, the goal of most people attending tech school is to attain practical training and get a good paying, upper middle class job. This used to be considered success, except seems to no longer fit into the progressive narrative. Most practical minded people are not trying to get on the cover of Forbes or win a Nobel Prize.
True, but he's far from the only person in this country who became successful without going to college.
I agree with much of what you write. College should not be the destination of every high school graduate. However, approximately 70% of high school graduates enroll in college. A college degree today is replacing the high school diploma as the new norm and I don't see that changing.Unfortunately, the advantage that comes from a college degree does not come immediately after graduation for most people. It comes over a period of years as the graduate get's experience and often more education. That's pretty disheartening for someone who worked their ass off for a degree and finds themselves with a college loan to pay off and a crappy job. No wonder so many new graduates bad mouth college.Most people that drop out of school, are not Bill Gates. He had an SAT score of 1590 out of 1600. He and Paul Allen started their first business in high school at age 15. Gates was one in million.Bill Gates dropped out of school. Additionally, the goal of most people attending tech school is to attain practical training and get a good paying, upper middle class job. This used to be considered success, except seems to no longer fit into the progressive narrative. Most practical minded people are not trying to get on the cover of Forbes or win a Nobel Prize.
Most people that graduate are not Bill Gates either, nor is getting a degree going to turn most people into a multi-billionaire. Using a tiny handful of billionaires as an example is silly. Pointing out that the average college graduate makes more money is a better argument in my opinion.
Also, some of the actual pay increases from getting a higher degree come in public sector jobs funded by taxpayers where there is a policy that getting your Master's or PhD gets you a raise in and of itself. In private industry, it should theoretically give you a competitive advantage over someone who hasn't and actually might, except there is no artificial policy that automatically grants you a raise based on a higher degree. I do not buy the argument that every single graduating High School senior belongs in an institute of higher learning in the first place. There is nothing wrong with getting a High School diploma and a job afterwards. The whole everybody needs to get a college degree is a money making scheme.
Universities should themselves be trade schools. They should be trade schools for elite professions. If you want to be a surgeon, mathematician, physicist, etc. go to college. Third grade teachers do not need a Master's degree in Education to teach third grade reading, writing, and arithmetic.
What needs to change is the idea that a college degree without experience is going to get you a job in your chosen field. That may have been true 25 or 50 years ago but it's certainly not true today. Businesses just can't afford to hire someone because they see great long term potential because that person will probably not be around that long. Colleges need to incorporate into all curriculum internships that will give the new graduate real experience that can help them get a job, otherwise they may never get a job in their chosen field.
It certainly is. I have a grandson that scored over 1500 on his SAT and is failing in almost every subject because he simple doesn't like school. He is also borderline autistic which makes it even more difficult.I don't disagree with anything you said. However, helping your kids determine their best path after high school can be really hard. I have a grandson who scores 1460 on his SAT, makes good grades in math and flunks everything else. He'll be a senior next year but may not graduate. He has no idea what he wants to do.Have you ever heard of "aptitude"?
I have an IQ over 140, but I am a terrible carpenter. Can't make a square cut to save my ass, and I do carpentry around the house all the time. I've tried laying brick, and I can't lay a neat slab of mortar. Can't run a clean or even bead of weld material.
I know guys who can do all that, but who can't spell, or lay out a logical argument to support something they "feel" to be true.
Parents should work to try to figure out where a kid's talents lie, and to help them develop their talents as far as possible. Maybe they have talents that will never lead to a good income, so they have to be shown to either learn to live on the cheap, or find something else that will pay the bills while they play music on the side.
Trouble is, some parents believe that if their kids don't go to college, they will never "amount to anything," which is total bullshit. Shame on such parents.
And always remember, the MOST PROMISING path to financial success in this country is ENTREPRENEURSHIP! There are millions and millions of wildly successful people in this country who are business owners or simply investors, and often, the business has nothing to do with their formal education. They are landscapers, builders, store owners, used car dealers, home-improvement contractors, roofers, consultants, and so on. EVERYONE should consider a small business their first economic goal, then if that doesn't work out, look elsewhere. And it's best to start that small business before you have a wife, kids, and a mortgage.
My oldest son has always been very smart, and learned all of his basic academic courses quickly and easily. But aside from an interest in building airplanes when he was young, he never seemed to show a special aptitude in any specific area. We tried lots of things, but nothing stood out . . . until he got in high school and tried out some crafts classes and one in 3D computer imaging. Turns out that while he doesn't have the standard artistic talent for drawing and painting 2D images, he has a mad genius for how things fit together in 3 dimensions. And while he doesn't have the standard writing and storytelling skills one would look for in a fiction author, he's hell on wheels when it comes to designing and executing elaborate and fascinating roleplaying game(!) storylines. So now he's going to school to become a video game designer.
My youngest has decided that he wants to be a zookeeper, because he loves animals, but doesn't want to have to hurt them (so veterinarian is totally out). We'll see.
Parenting in this day and age is just weird.
I got another grand kid that also has a high SAT score but also has good grades. He said he has no interest in college and wants to work in construction because he doesn't want work at a desk. Another grand kid is a Junior in college has used up all her college savings and is going into debt, changed her major twice and still doesn't know what she wants to do. Did I mention she is also a bit crazy and Anorexic. The parents have simple given up and decided what will be will be.
Thankfully the rest the kids and grand kids are doing a lot better.
For any young couple that is thinking of have kids. Think twice. Babies are cute and toddlers can be fun but what awaits you when they become teens may well take every bit of energy, patience, and love to be good parent. Please consider that before you start a family. You would not believe how hard it can be.
But I agree that anyone contemplating becoming a parent needs to understand that this isn't a wash-and-wear situation, you pop the munchkin out and BOOM! Hard part's done and you just sit around and enjoy while they somehow become fully functioning adults through osmosis or something. It's also not one-size-fits-all, where the same things happen and have the same solutions across the board.
So, that is why Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffet, and all of those other billionaires went to trade school; right?
All three of these people are exception, certain not the norm.So, that is why Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffet, and all of those other billionaires went to trade school; right?
Actually your list of people there, is pretty instructive.
Bill Gates dropped out. He was programming by age 13, and was selling the Traf-o-Data by age 17. His 'trade school' was the school of work experience.
While Buffet didn't drop out, he barely needed to go. Buffet was his own trade school. He was buying stocks in companies before he was a teenager. He was running a business by age 14.
The only one that actually went through a school to succeed, was Jeff Bezos.
Interesting also is Jeff Bezos is the only one of the three that was not born into a well to do family. Buffet was the son of stockbroker and congressman. Gate's father was an attorney, philanthropist, and author. However Bezos was born to a teenage mother who worked as a waitress and father who ran a bike shop.So, that is why Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffet, and all of those other billionaires went to trade school; right?
Actually your list of people there, is pretty instructive.
Bill Gates dropped out. He was programming by age 13, and was selling the Traf-o-Data by age 17. His 'trade school' was the school of work experience.
While Buffet didn't drop out, he barely needed to go. Buffet was his own trade school. He was buying stocks in companies before he was a teenager. He was running a business by age 14.
The only one that actually went through a school to succeed, was Jeff Bezos.
Interesting also is Jeff Bezos is the only one of the three that was not born into a well to do family. Buffet was the son of stockbroker and congressman. Gate's father was an attorney, philanthropist, and author. However Bezos was born to a teenage mother who worked as a waitress and father who ran a bike shop.So, that is why Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffet, and all of those other billionaires went to trade school; right?
Actually your list of people there, is pretty instructive.
Bill Gates dropped out. He was programming by age 13, and was selling the Traf-o-Data by age 17. His 'trade school' was the school of work experience.
While Buffet didn't drop out, he barely needed to go. Buffet was his own trade school. He was buying stocks in companies before he was a teenager. He was running a business by age 14.
The only one that actually went through a school to succeed, was Jeff Bezos.
Different strokes for differ folks, a saying that certainly applies to folks making a decision about education.If you went to school to learn a trade, you must be lesser, because someone long ago decided that college should be called “higher” education. Considering the state of colleges and universities today, the word “higher” may be the most misleading of them all.
The way we speak about education is inherently classist. When a student of lesser means attends a traditional four-year school, we say she “overcame her circumstances.” When a student from a wealthy background chooses a trade school we say he didn’t “live up to expectations.” We are all but telling people that the trade jobs this country needs are dirty, and that skills-based education is for people without means or, much worse, without potential.
First off, everyone should complete their high school education, whether you go to public school, private school, home schooled, or get a GED. Many large companies require a high school education for all jobs if you're over 21. Companies like fast food restaurants, retail sales, construction will hire you but they will do a double take when they see you don't have a high school education. The question is why don't. Completion of education always sends a message to employers that you have the ability to commit yourself to a task and finish it. Without a high school education, you're likely to hit a wage ceiling that can be difficult to surpass.
College is not for everyone. It is for everyone who has the ability to complete college without having to attend diploma mills and seek the easiest degrees. According to the US Census Bureau, a college degree is worth a million bucks over a lifetime.
The right kind of trade school, certification program, etc. can be very valuable to both those with and without college degrees. Many college curriculum particular liberal arts are great at teaching you to think, to study, and to analyze. You'll be able to talk to customers, your peers, and your bosses about a variety of subjects even in different languages. Unfortunately, you probably want have the specifics skills your employer is looking for unless you graduated in one of the hot fields in science or technology. Today in many of the vocational trades, employers want some basic job related education before they even take you on as an apprentice.
All three of these people are exception, certain not the norm.So, that is why Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffet, and all of those other billionaires went to trade school; right?
Actually your list of people there, is pretty instructive.
Bill Gates dropped out. He was programming by age 13, and was selling the Traf-o-Data by age 17. His 'trade school' was the school of work experience.
While Buffet didn't drop out, he barely needed to go. Buffet was his own trade school. He was buying stocks in companies before he was a teenager. He was running a business by age 14.
The only one that actually went through a school to succeed, was Jeff Bezos.
Agreed. Be it business, politics, or personal relationship, people that care about people and seek to make life better for them have a huge advantage in life, over those who seek only wealth.Interesting also is Jeff Bezos is the only one of the three that was not born into a well to do family. Buffet was the son of stockbroker and congressman. Gate's father was an attorney, philanthropist, and author. However Bezos was born to a teenage mother who worked as a waitress and father who ran a bike shop.So, that is why Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffet, and all of those other billionaires went to trade school; right?
Actually your list of people there, is pretty instructive.
Bill Gates dropped out. He was programming by age 13, and was selling the Traf-o-Data by age 17. His 'trade school' was the school of work experience.
While Buffet didn't drop out, he barely needed to go. Buffet was his own trade school. He was buying stocks in companies before he was a teenager. He was running a business by age 14.
The only one that actually went through a school to succeed, was Jeff Bezos.
Which shows you a few key traits that is true in all those cases. Their families all had good work ethics. It would be hard pressed to say that any of them got their wealth, or their start, through their parents. But they most certainly got a work ethic from them.
About the only other thing that is true of all of them, is that they were 'people people'. Meaning they got along with others, made connections, kept up with acquaintances.
Chris Gardner, the inspiration for Pursuit of Happiness, is a classic example. He had everything against him, but he had two qualities.... Unbelievable work ethic, and he was a people person.
Steve Jobs was a people person. He could motivate everyone with his "we will change the world" attitude.
Those college dropouts couldn't handle a trade..So, that is why Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffet, and all of those other billionaires went to trade school; right?
So, that is why Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffet, and all of those other billionaires went to trade school; right?
Bill Gates dropped out of school. Additionally, the goal of most people attending tech school is to attain practical training and get a good paying, upper middle class job. This used to be considered success, except seems to no longer fit into the progressive narrative. Most practical minded people are not trying to get on the cover of Forbes or win a Nobel Prize.
If he's moron then so are 60% of those that are graduating with 4 year degrees.I have a 2 year AAS degree from a tech school and I make more than my brother, who is a CPA with a 6 year Bachelor's degree. I think with tech schools you get directed, specialized training. The standard colleges want you to spend vast amounts of money on "general" courses that don't really even apply to your trade, making them way overly expensive.So, that is why Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffet, and all of those other billionaires went to trade school; right?
Trade schools get you more bang for your buck.
school.
