Top 1 percent of Americans possess more wealth than the entire bottom 90 percent

[Quantum Windbag]

Indeed it is. Therefore we should do nothing about it.

Every other time in History that government have set down the road of attempting to Make things fair by law, the result was Totalitarianism of one sort or another.

You really want to go down that road again? Just because Obama and the Left of the Democrat Party are stupid enough to think they are the ones who will finally get it right this time?

What horseshit. From the Constitution on, the history of this country is a history of the People using the law to try to make things fair.

No it is not.

 

[Liberty]

rdean i have only one question in response to your original post...

and i will let peter griffin speak for me...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4VbOHvaPRc]OMG WHO THE HELL CARES! - YouTube[/ame]

 

[alan1]

Let's start with the obvious: Unemployment. Three years after the financial crisis, the unemployment rate is still at the highest level since the Great Depression (except for a brief blip in the early 1980s)

Corporate profits just hit another all-time high.

Corporate profits as a percent of the economy are near a record all-time high. With the exception of a brief happy period in 2007 (just before the crash), profits are higher than they've been since the 1950s. And they are VASTLY higher than they've been for most of the intervening half-century.

CEO pay is now 350X the average worker's, up from 50X from 1960-1985.

CEO pay has skyrocketed 300% since 1990. Corporate profits have doubled. Average "production worker" pay has increased 4%. The minimum wage has dropped. (All numbers adjusted for inflation).

After adjusting for inflation, average hourly earnings haven't increased in 50 years.

In short... while CEOs and shareholders have been cashing in, wages as a percent of the economy have dropped to an all-time low.

In other words, in the struggle between "labor" and "capital," capital has basically won.

Of course, life is great if you're in the top 1% of American wage earners. You're hauling in a bigger percentage of the country's total pre-tax income than you have at any time since the late 1920s. Your share of the national income, in fact, is almost 2X the long-term average!

In fact, income inequality has gotten so extreme here that the US now ranks 93rd in the world in "income equality." China's ahead of us. So is India. So is Iran.

And, by the way, few people would have a problem with inequality if the American Dream were still fully intact—if it were easy to work your way into that top 1%. But, unfortunately, social mobility in this country is also near an all-time low.

So what does all this mean in terms of net worth? Well, for starters, it means that the top 1% of Americans own 42% of the financial wealth in this country. The top 5%, meanwhile, own nearly 70%.

And remember that huge debt problem we have—with hundreds of millions of Americans indebted up to their eyeballs? Well, the top 1% doesn't have that problem. They only own 5% of the country's debt.

And then there are taxes... It's a great time to make a boatload of money in America, because taxes on the nation's highest-earners are close to the lowest they've ever been.

The small 1% own a whopping 5% of the debt and you don't think they have a problem? Are you talking about congress?

 

[flacaltenn]

The 400 wealthiest Americans have a greater combined net worth than the bottom 150 million Americans.

The top 1 percent of Americans possess more wealth than the entire bottom 90 percent.

If you trace back the source of that data that a lazy journalist just regurgitated -- you'll find that it links to the same phoney source as that pie-chart that Chris has been passing off. Amazing how Mark Twain was right when he said..

"A lie can spread half-way around the world before the truth even gets it's pants on".. He'd be amazed how much truer that is today..

From the thread --- http://www.usmessageboard.com/4180468-post1.html

Aren't those leftists peddling this point the least bit interested in WHERE the source of the data came from? (NO!!)

I traced the "source" back to approx here..

Wealth holdings remain unequal in good and bad times | State of Working America


Quote:
Wolff, Edward. 2010. Unpublished analysis of the Survey of Consumer Finances (2007) & Federal Reserve Flow of Funds (2009) data prepared in 2010 for the Economic Policy Institute.
NOTE ---> the SOURCE is an "UNPUBLISHED analysis of the Survey of Consumer Finances". If that passes for the smell test for you --- you MUST be a class warrior, Daily Kos dwelling leftist.

The only time I've ever disclosed net worth was on College Finance App (FAFSA). Even my financial advisors don't know the whole picture.
Without a STUDY to show their numbers, methodology, and assumptions, that FACTOID is meaningless. And the fact that it is a UNPUBLISHED analysis ought to tell you a lot.. But you're a party animal and not INTERESTED in analysis -- RIGHT RDEAN???

Tell me RDEAN are the 12Mill ILLEGAL workers counted in that statistic? You don't know do ya... Who supplies stock and equity holdings information on every citizen? Is it based on TAXFILERS -- or ALL Americans? Does it count STUDENTS?

You're a moron if you don't care about the BASIC questions...

So you are saying there is no income inequality. That there are plenty of jobs but people must be too lazy to work. The nation's infrastructure is in tip-top shape. Those on Wall Street are completely honest. That if there are any problems it's illegal aliens who make less than the minimum wage and get no health care who're to blame.

Did I get it right? Did that make sense to your tiny mind?

Look RDean -- I'm gonna be straight and fair. There IS a wealth gap. I was interested in HOW they measured it because I'm curious and scientifically inclined. (A 6% member!!). Imagine my dissapointment after working hard to find the source of that data -- I get to a dead end with "UNPUBLISHED analysis" and "paid for by" an extreme left wing nuthouse.

Now this is wrong on so many levels. ONE -- you have no business hitting on right-wing sources when you are the largest purveyor of slutty data on the board. And TWO -- you spend so much time lecturing us all on scientific method and how it should be devoid of political agenda.

It would be a MASSIVE undertaking to quantify the Wealth gap and how it's changing. It is and will remain elusive. Not so much for INCOME -- because of easier public access to Income records.

Here's bottom line -- It's more important that we get the BASIC UNDERLYING FACTS correct than all of the debate points scored in pointless one-liners..

 

[Utilitarian]

The typical right winger response to facts of this nature is something akin to support for feudalism.

If you point out that the elite rich own an extravagant amount of the nation's total wealth, they seem to assume that they earned it all by themselves without the help of any workers.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

There's a gap in every human endeavor, guitar playing, hitting a baseball, composing a hit tune, writing a screenplay, making a sermon, understanding wealth. Liberals feel like such awful failures the only way they can get through a day without hanging themselves is to try to tear down people more successful than them, which is virtually the entire human race

 

[flacaltenn]

BTW Chris:

After adjusting for inflation, average hourly earnings haven't increased in 50 years.

In short... while CEOs and shareholders have been cashing in, wages as a percent of the economy have dropped to an all-time low.

No way either one of these is correct. Just yesterday someone posted a whole series of graphs showing that average annual hour pay ADJUSTED FOR INFLATION rose from a relative low of about 16.50/hr in mid 90's to 18.00/hr in early 2000. Staying largely flat since then.

And Yeah shareholders have been cashing BIG TIME haven't they? Do you EVER look at stock charts? You realize that shareholders haven't seen returns even back to 2002 levels for a lot of stocks?

And I gave several logical reasons in a thread about why CEO salaries have increased. It's not as simple as greed. In fact, NBA salaries have pretty much kept pace with CEO increases. Considering those dudes are pulling down 20 to 30Mill/yr and the locker room staff is making 12/hr --- why aren't you SIMILIARLY outraged?

Fact is that CEO salaries correlate almost exactly with the increasing SIZE of their corps. In terms of market capitalization, number of employees, number of unique biz units, ect.

Why is it that we spend time arguing and not INSPECTING the facts that motivate the discussion? Can't blame that on your exposure to Fox News now can we??

 

[flacaltenn]

The typical right winger response to facts of this nature is something akin to support for feudalism.

If you point out that the elite rich own an extravagant amount of the nation's total wealth, they seem to assume that they earned it all by themselves without the help of any workers.

Diff between feudalism and America having about 400 or so Billionaires is that it's none of my business if they're richer than me. As long as they didn't steal from me.

Did Michael Jordan or Paris Hilton steal from you??? Don't tell me the J.K. Rowling didn't have an army of THOUSANDS working to publish, print, distribute, market, and protect the Harry Potter empire....

 

[rdean]

If you trace back the source of that data that a lazy journalist just regurgitated -- you'll find that it links to the same phoney source as that pie-chart that Chris has been passing off. Amazing how Mark Twain was right when he said..

"A lie can spread half-way around the world before the truth even gets it's pants on".. He'd be amazed how much truer that is today..

From the thread --- http://www.usmessageboard.com/4180468-post1.html



The only time I've ever disclosed net worth was on College Finance App (FAFSA). Even my financial advisors don't know the whole picture.
Without a STUDY to show their numbers, methodology, and assumptions, that FACTOID is meaningless. And the fact that it is a UNPUBLISHED analysis ought to tell you a lot.. But you're a party animal and not INTERESTED in analysis -- RIGHT RDEAN???

Tell me RDEAN are the 12Mill ILLEGAL workers counted in that statistic? You don't know do ya... Who supplies stock and equity holdings information on every citizen? Is it based on TAXFILERS -- or ALL Americans? Does it count STUDENTS?

You're a moron if you don't care about the BASIC questions...

So you are saying there is no income inequality. That there are plenty of jobs but people must be too lazy to work. The nation's infrastructure is in tip-top shape. Those on Wall Street are completely honest. That if there are any problems it's illegal aliens who make less than the minimum wage and get no health care who're to blame.

Did I get it right? Did that make sense to your tiny mind?

Look RDean -- I'm gonna be straight and fair. There IS a wealth gap. I was interested in HOW they measured it because I'm curious and scientifically inclined. (A 6% member!!). Imagine my dissapointment after working hard to find the source of that data -- I get to a dead end with "UNPUBLISHED analysis" and "paid for by" an extreme left wing nuthouse.

Now this is wrong on so many levels. ONE -- you have no business hitting on right-wing sources when you are the largest purveyor of slutty data on the board. And TWO -- you spend so much time lecturing us all on scientific method and how it should be devoid of political agenda.

It would be a MASSIVE undertaking to quantify the Wealth gap and how it's changing. It is and will remain elusive. Not so much for INCOME -- because of easier public access to Income records.

Here's bottom line -- It's more important that we get the BASIC UNDERLYING FACTS correct than all of the debate points scored in pointless one-liners..

I'm curious and scientifically inclined.

Good. Then you should be doing research. Here are a few things for your "scientific and logical" mind to "find out".

Find out where the US ranks in "income inequality".
Then find out how that affects the economy.
Then find out whether the grows when income inequality is smaller or larger.
Then find out about buying politicians to change the law so what was illegal now isn't.

Find these things out and then come back. You will be prepared for an adult discussion.

 

[Utilitarian]

The typical right winger response to facts of this nature is something akin to support for feudalism.

If you point out that the elite rich own an extravagant amount of the nation's total wealth, they seem to assume that they earned it all by themselves without the help of any workers.

Diff between feudalism and America having about 400 or so Billionaires is that it's none of my business if they're richer than me. As long as they didn't steal from me.

Did Michael Jordan or Paris Hilton steal from you???

There was a time when paying more in taxes was seen as a duty by the rich. It was a practice meant to compensate for the higher amount of influence they had on society than the average person had.

Of course, it's more en vogue now to view taxes in an extremely superficial way so as to assume that it's tantamount to stealing.

Thankfully, this seems to be mostly an American problem rather than one that extends to its peers.

 

[hortysir]

All this talk about the wealthiest of Americans has only just recently flared up.

Logic tells me that it must be the Obama administration that is making it possible for all this wealth to be growing like it is.

maybe the economy is better than we think!!

 

[flacaltenn]

The typical right winger response to facts of this nature is something akin to support for feudalism.

If you point out that the elite rich own an extravagant amount of the nation's total wealth, they seem to assume that they earned it all by themselves without the help of any workers.

Diff between feudalism and America having about 400 or so Billionaires is that it's none of my business if they're richer than me. As long as they didn't steal from me.

Did Michael Jordan or Paris Hilton steal from you???

There was a time when paying more in taxes was seen as a duty by the rich. It was a practice meant to compensate for the higher amount of influence they had on society than the average person had.

Of course, it's more en vogue now to view taxes in an extremely superficial way so as to assume that it's tantamount to stealing.

Thankfully, this seems to be mostly an American problem rather than one that extends to its peers.

It still IS a duty of the rich. That's why every Cruise missile or predator drone is paid for "by the rich". That's why WIC cheese is paid for "by the rich". That's why Obama can continue to give Jeffrey Immelt insane GREEN subsidies to offset the GE tax burden. Also paid for "by the rich".. If we had REAL political leadership -- we wouldn't have 43 threads on "the rich". We'd be figuring out how to REALLY redefine the American economy..

But our leadership sucks. And we better start looking OUTSIDE of politics for some direction real soon..

 

[flacaltenn]

From the OP...

The 400 wealthiest Americans have a greater combined net worth than the bottom 150 million Americans.

You do realize RDean that about 40% of the Forbes 400 are people who came from "first base". Meaning that THEY created all of that wealth -- not their parents or ancestors. That alone tells how dynamic and MOBILE wealth in America is. It's actually pretty wonderful to ponder. AND -- it gives you an example of how hard it would be to accurately measure..

 

[Utilitarian]

It still IS a duty of the rich. That's why every Cruise missile or predator drone is paid for "by the rich". That's why WIC cheese is paid for "by the rich". That's why Obama can continue to give Jeffrey Immelt insane GREEN subsidies to offset the GE tax burden. Also paid for "by the rich".. If we had REAL political leadership -- we wouldn't have 43 threads on "the rich". We'd be figuring out how to REALLY redefine the American economy..

But our leadership sucks. And we better start looking OUTSIDE of politics for some direction real soon..

I can agree with that. Granted, I don't know if we can really move forward without overthrowing the system and starting over.

 

[Utilitarian]

From the OP...

The 400 wealthiest Americans have a greater combined net worth than the bottom 150 million Americans.

You do realize RDean that about 40% of the Forbes 400 are people who came from "first base". Meaning that THEY created all of that wealth -- not their parents or ancestors. That alone tells how dynamic and MOBILE wealth in America is. It's actually pretty wonderful to ponder. AND -- it gives you an example of how hard it would be to accurately measure..

Most wealthy people come from industries. Industries that make the big bucks employ thousands of people. There are always exceptions (like entertainers and sports stars), but most wealth is actually created by a large pool of labor.

So again... it's not like they really earned all of it themselves. We're simply part of a system where wealth accumulates at the top. Most systems are like this anyway, but it's a consequence of human nature, not of work ethic so much.

 

[del]

So you are saying there is no income inequality. That there are plenty of jobs but people must be too lazy to work. The nation's infrastructure is in tip-top shape. Those on Wall Street are completely honest. That if there are any problems it's illegal aliens who make less than the minimum wage and get no health care who're to blame.

Did I get it right? Did that make sense to your tiny mind?

Look RDean -- I'm gonna be straight and fair. There IS a wealth gap. I was interested in HOW they measured it because I'm curious and scientifically inclined. (A 6% member!!). Imagine my dissapointment after working hard to find the source of that data -- I get to a dead end with "UNPUBLISHED analysis" and "paid for by" an extreme left wing nuthouse.

Now this is wrong on so many levels. ONE -- you have no business hitting on right-wing sources when you are the largest purveyor of slutty data on the board. And TWO -- you spend so much time lecturing us all on scientific method and how it should be devoid of political agenda.

It would be a MASSIVE undertaking to quantify the Wealth gap and how it's changing. It is and will remain elusive. Not so much for INCOME -- because of easier public access to Income records.

Here's bottom line -- It's more important that we get the BASIC UNDERLYING FACTS correct than all of the debate points scored in pointless one-liners..

I'm curious and scientifically inclined.

Good. Then you should be doing research. Here are a few things for your "scientific and logical" mind to "find out".

Find out where the US ranks in "income inequality".
Then find out how that affects the economy.
Then find out whether the grows when income inequality is smaller or larger.
Then find out about buying politicians to change the law so what was illegal now isn't.

Find these things out and then come back. You will be prepared for an adult discussion.

i assume you'll be arranging for an adult?

good deanie. have a cookie.

 

[flacaltenn]

It still IS a duty of the rich. That's why every Cruise missile or predator drone is paid for "by the rich". That's why WIC cheese is paid for "by the rich". That's why Obama can continue to give Jeffrey Immelt insane GREEN subsidies to offset the GE tax burden. Also paid for "by the rich".. If we had REAL political leadership -- we wouldn't have 43 threads on "the rich". We'd be figuring out how to REALLY redefine the American economy..

But our leadership sucks. And we better start looking OUTSIDE of politics for some direction real soon..

I can agree with that. Granted, I don't know if we can really move forward without overthrowing the system and starting over.

For all it's problems the American political system isn't what's troubling Americans right now. Except for the class war circus that Obama is encouraging. We were told YEARS ago that when the 3rd world began to develop that WE would have to shift our labor to stuff that the rest of the world COULD NOT do. Meaning we would give up making bicycles and socks and concentrate on Science and Technology driven industries. NEW ventures that are FORMED around cutting edge research and development -- but which would accomodate ALL levels of workers. We aren't doing that. GOVT is in the way on most counts. And we'd rather fight like vultures over the roadkill that is left over and in the hands "of the rich"...

 

[Harry Dresden]

life's unfair.

keep it under your hat.

Unless you are able to buy Republican politicians. Then, it's "VERY" fair.

is it fair if i can buy a Democratic politician?......or dont they count?....

 

[Utilitarian]

It still IS a duty of the rich. That's why every Cruise missile or predator drone is paid for "by the rich". That's why WIC cheese is paid for "by the rich". That's why Obama can continue to give Jeffrey Immelt insane GREEN subsidies to offset the GE tax burden. Also paid for "by the rich".. If we had REAL political leadership -- we wouldn't have 43 threads on "the rich". We'd be figuring out how to REALLY redefine the American economy..

But our leadership sucks. And we better start looking OUTSIDE of politics for some direction real soon..

I can agree with that. Granted, I don't know if we can really move forward without overthrowing the system and starting over.

For all it's problems the American political system isn't what's troubling Americans right now. Except for the class war circus that Obama is encouraging. We were told YEARS ago that when the 3rd world began to develop that WE would have to shift our labor to stuff that the rest of the world COULD NOT do. Meaning we would give up making bicycles and socks and concentrate on Science and Technology driven industries. NEW ventures that are FORMED around cutting edge research and development -- but which would accomodate ALL levels of workers. We aren't doing that. GOVT is in the way on most counts. And we'd rather fight like vultures over the roadkill that is left over and in the hands "of the rich"...

Public investment is what allowed us to reach the top of higher education in the world.

It's also what gave us the most advanced road system in the world.

It gave us the internet.

It even gave us the most powerful military.

It's not that government gets in the way so much as it is that the people running the government have become corporate pawns. You can thank the 80s for that.

Now that Wall Street owns America, I don't really see any way of turning back that doesn't end in a lot of bloodshed.

 

[flacaltenn]

From the OP...

The 400 wealthiest Americans have a greater combined net worth than the bottom 150 million Americans.

You do realize RDean that about 40% of the Forbes 400 are people who came from "first base". Meaning that THEY created all of that wealth -- not their parents or ancestors. That alone tells how dynamic and MOBILE wealth in America is. It's actually pretty wonderful to ponder. AND -- it gives you an example of how hard it would be to accurately measure..

Most wealthy people come from industries. Industries that make the big bucks employ thousands of people. There are always exceptions (like entertainers and sports stars), but most wealth is actually created by a large pool of labor.

So again... it's not like they really earned all of it themselves. We're simply part of a system where wealth accumulates at the top. Most systems are like this anyway, but it's a consequence of human nature, not of work ethic so much.

NOPE.. Most wealthy people come from entertainment, arts, sports, authors, doctors, lawyers, inventors, and hard working smaller entreprenurial businesses. The 'Wall Street' contingient is a small portion of our top 10%.

On the BILLIONAIRE level -- yes the majority of those folks came from Corporate wealth.

And Like I said above -- JK Rowling had an army of "workers" to create and maintain her Harry Potter empire. So does Phil Mickelson. There is no diff. There is no THEFT. We should "move on"...