TODAY IS THE 20 YEAR ANNIVERSARY OF THE OKLAHOMA CITY BOMBING

[tinydancer]

What a crock of shit. That whole incident could have been avoided if white supremacist, Randy Weaver had only cooperated, instead he was an anti-government, paranoid lunatic who refused to cooperate, or even attend his court hearings. His wife believed that the apocalypse was imminent. What happened was unfortunate, but it could have all been avoided.

No, that's wrong. Randy Weaver did not attend his court date because he was sent a summons with the wrong date on it. In other words: the COURT fucked up!

The idiot wouldn't answer his phone for his attorney, when his attorney tried to contact him over the matter. He was a religious, gun crazed nutcase.

Actually that is wrong....he was not religious.....he was not christian......that is a lie perpetrated by the left.....

You have no clue of what you're talking about.

In 1978, Vicki read a book that began what would be a long-term drift toward a Christianity-based apocalyptic view of the world. Hal Lindsey's The Late Great Planet Earth applied his interpretation of the prophesies of the Old Testament to the events of current times and concluded that we were now in "the end time." A nuclear holocaust and Armageddon were just around the corner, but the good news was that Jesus would return to Earth. Violence and pestilence soon would fall upon the planet, and Christians persecuted, in a terrible time called The Great Tribulation. Then there would be The Rapture, and true believers selected by God to join him in Paradise. Vicki and Randy began to share with friends their plan of moving to a mountain top, as far as possible from false governments, desperate people, and hunters of good Christians like themselves. "We've been having this vision," Vicki would say.

The Randy Weaver Ruby Ridge Trial An Account

Continued, from the link above...

Vicki's search for "the truth" led her into libraries and bookstores. She read and found significance in books such as Ayn's Rand'sAtlas Shrugged, a novel warning of the dangers of an all-powerful state, and in the prophetic short stories of H. G. Wells, which dwelled on themes such as Armageddon and Judgment Day. She and Randy began meeting regularly with like-minded radical Christians at the Cedar Falls Sambo's restaurant. Vicki poured over passages from her King James Bible, drawing lessons ranging from what to eat (no unclean meat such as pork or oysters) to how to prepare for the "end time." In Matthew 24 she encountered the passage which reinforced her vision of their future: "Then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains."

Vicki and Randy were slipping further and further away from mainstream life. They adopted a conspiratorial world view that linked Jews to the Illuminati, Masons, and the Trilateral Commission. Randy began sleeping in a flak jacket with a loaded gun under his pillow. In an interview with a reporter for a Waterloo paper, they said they planned to build a house in the woods with a defensible 300-yard "kill zone" around its perimeter. They became increasingly isolated, as their radical beliefs caused them to lose former friends. In 1983, the couple left Iowa for good, with Randy driving a moving van and Vicki following behind in a pickup truck, heading west to meet the end time in the mountains.

And they misinterpreted the laws of the bible? Trying to get where you are going here..

 

[georgephillip]

It isn't clear where McVeigh's political loyalties were. McVeigh wasn't saying so the media assumed he was a "right wing yada yada" but he belonged to a loosely knit seemingly left wing group called "Elhoim"

Elohim City figures into Twenty Unanswered Questions about the Oklahoma City bombing.

"A bigger issue, which would re-emerge in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, was chronic interagency rivalry. In 1995, the FBI and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) were both monitoring the radical far right, but trust between the two was at rock bottom following a disastrous ATF raid two years earlier on a religious compound outside Waco, Texas, and an ensuing FBI-led siege that ended with the place burning to the ground. More than 80 people died.

"In early 1995, the ATF didn’t tell the FBI it had an informant inside a remote community in eastern Oklahoma, that the informant had reported talk of bombings, and that the ATF – afraid of triggering another Waco – had decided to pull the informant out rather than act on her information. McVeigh telephoned the community, Elohim City, two weeks after the informant was shut down, and there are multiple indications he came visiting days later in search of recruits. John Magaw, who was ATF director in 1995, said in a 2010 interview with me that if the informant had been kept on, the bomb plot may have been thwarted."

Oklahoma City bombing 20 years later key questions remain unanswered US news The Guardian

 

[kaz]

He was right that Waco and Ruby Ridge were government attrocities, but killing people wasn't the solution to that, it was unmitigated murder, it doesn't matter if he was right.

That has nothing to do with selifie girl making the anniversary political

Wowza!

Yes, Slick and Reno murdered a lot of innocent people. Killing more innocent people wasn't the answer to that. I oppose the death penalty, but he should have never seen the light of day as a free man again.

You have anything coherent to say or you just boing with "wowza?" Maybe you could put the phone down and pay attention to the discussion

What a crock of shit. That whole incident could have been avoided if white supremacist, Randy Weaver had only cooperated, instead he was an anti-government, paranoid lunatic who refused to cooperate, or even attend his court hearings. His wife believed that the apocalypse was imminent. What happened was unfortunate, but it could have all been avoided.

No, that's wrong. Randy Weaver did not attend his court date because he was sent a summons with the wrong date on it. In other words: the COURT fucked up!

The idiot wouldn't answer his phone for his attorney, when his attorney tried to contact him over the matter. He was a religious, gun crazed nutcase.

And that justifies shooting his wife how?

 

[kaz]

If you've read the thread, and if you can read, you know I agree with sorrow for the victims who were murdered by government.

But that a "soldier" targets innocent civilians to be murdered is sick. Your usual fare.

He didn't target civilians he targeted government employees,employees of the tyrannical government that killed many at Waco and Ruby Ridge. He avenged the children murdered at Waco and Ruby Ridge. He is to be admired he actually backed his rhetoric up with force.

He targeted everyone in the building and on the streets around it

He targeted a government building. The rest were collateral damage. They had as much warning as did the civilians at Waco did when they were murdered by the ATF and FBI

I hope our Government is keeping an eye on you, lunatic.

View attachment 39974

You are so full of shit.

After Democrats committed those crimes you call murder, you joined their party?

You're an authoritarian who wants government to use force to redistribute our money and force morality on it's citizens, but then you're against them using guns on those who defy them?

And you love people who murder the authoritarian oppressors you support?

And you think government needs to give money to the little guy you care about so much, but soldiers are free to murder them as collateral damage?

You just like saying obnoxious things, you haven't said a thing you meant since you joined the board, Pods.

 

[Preacher]

I am not a registered dem or repub actually.

 

[Preacher]

Oh and I mean EVERYTHING I say...

 

[Carla_Danger]

Wowza!

Yes, Slick and Reno murdered a lot of innocent people. Killing more innocent people wasn't the answer to that. I oppose the death penalty, but he should have never seen the light of day as a free man again.

You have anything coherent to say or you just boing with "wowza?" Maybe you could put the phone down and pay attention to the discussion

What a crock of shit. That whole incident could have been avoided if white supremacist, Randy Weaver had only cooperated, instead he was an anti-government, paranoid lunatic who refused to cooperate, or even attend his court hearings. His wife believed that the apocalypse was imminent. What happened was unfortunate, but it could have all been avoided.

No, that's wrong. Randy Weaver did not attend his court date because he was sent a summons with the wrong date on it. In other words: the COURT fucked up!

The idiot wouldn't answer his phone for his attorney, when his attorney tried to contact him over the matter. He was a religious, gun crazed nutcase.

And that justifies shooting his wife how?

That's what happens in shootouts. When you're standing there with bullets a flying...people get shot.

Randy brought the heat on by attending meetings with the Aryan Nation and selling illegal firearms., then by refusing to cooperate. They brought all of this on themselves.

Weaver never had any intention of returning for his court date. A letter written by Vicki to the U. S. Attorney for Idaho (addressed in the letter as the "Servant of the Queen of Babylon") promised they "will not bow to your evil commandments...whether we live or whether we die." When the February court date passed, with Randy as a no-show, a failure to appear warrant was issued for Weaver's arrest and the case sent to the U. S. Marshal's Service. In light of what became a constant stream of threatening letters to the federal government, Dave Hunt, deputy U. S. Marshal, reluctantly considered calling in Special Operations Group (SOG), an elite marshals force used for raids and difficult fugitive cases.

The Weaver household grew in 1991, with the delivery, in their birthing shed, of a baby girl they named Elisheba. The Weaver children now numbered four. In addition to Elisheba, there was Sara (age 15), Sammy (13), and Rachel (9). Kevin Harris, a teen with a troubled past who the Weavers had taken in, also spent months at a time in the Weaver cabin. The presence of children complicated the Marshal's Service task, especially given Randy Weaver's practice of sending his gun-toting children out in front of him to greet strangers.

The Randy Weaver Ruby Ridge Trial An Account

 

[kaz]

And that justifies shooting his wife how?

That's what happens in shootouts. When you're standing there with bullets a flying...people get shot

That argument would have worked had she not been murdered by a sniper....

Janet Reno should have spent the rest of her life in jail for murder one. Clinton should have done time for manslaughter. I'm not a big defender of Randy personally, it doesn't justify the crimes the government committed to get him.

And you keep ignoring Waco completely. Vikki was the most cold blooded murder of the two, but the people Janet murdered in Waco makes it pale in comparison because of the sheer volume

 

[Carla_Danger]

He didn't target civilians he targeted government employees,employees of the tyrannical government that killed many at Waco and Ruby Ridge. He avenged the children murdered at Waco and Ruby Ridge. He is to be admired he actually backed his rhetoric up with force.

He targeted everyone in the building and on the streets around it

He targeted a government building. The rest were collateral damage. They had as much warning as did the civilians at Waco did when they were murdered by the ATF and FBI

I hope our Government is keeping an eye on you, lunatic.

View attachment 39974

You are so full of shit.

After Democrats committed those crimes you call murder, you joined their party?

You're an authoritarian who wants government to use force to redistribute our money and force morality on it's citizens, but then you're against them using guns on those who defy them?

And you love people who murder the authoritarian oppressors you support?

And you think government needs to give money to the little guy you care about so much, but soldiers are free to murder them as collateral damage?

You just like saying obnoxious things, you haven't said a thing you meant since you joined the board, Pods.

I agree with your first and last sentence.

 

[Carla_Danger]

No, that's wrong. Randy Weaver did not attend his court date because he was sent a summons with the wrong date on it. In other words: the COURT fucked up!

The idiot wouldn't answer his phone for his attorney, when his attorney tried to contact him over the matter. He was a religious, gun crazed nutcase.

Actually that is wrong....he was not religious.....he was not christian......that is a lie perpetrated by the left.....

You have no clue of what you're talking about.

In 1978, Vicki read a book that began what would be a long-term drift toward a Christianity-based apocalyptic view of the world. Hal Lindsey's The Late Great Planet Earth applied his interpretation of the prophesies of the Old Testament to the events of current times and concluded that we were now in "the end time." A nuclear holocaust and Armageddon were just around the corner, but the good news was that Jesus would return to Earth. Violence and pestilence soon would fall upon the planet, and Christians persecuted, in a terrible time called The Great Tribulation. Then there would be The Rapture, and true believers selected by God to join him in Paradise. Vicki and Randy began to share with friends their plan of moving to a mountain top, as far as possible from false governments, desperate people, and hunters of good Christians like themselves. "We've been having this vision," Vicki would say.

The Randy Weaver Ruby Ridge Trial An Account

Continued, from the link above...

Vicki's search for "the truth" led her into libraries and bookstores. She read and found significance in books such as Ayn's Rand'sAtlas Shrugged, a novel warning of the dangers of an all-powerful state, and in the prophetic short stories of H. G. Wells, which dwelled on themes such as Armageddon and Judgment Day. She and Randy began meeting regularly with like-minded radical Christians at the Cedar Falls Sambo's restaurant. Vicki poured over passages from her King James Bible, drawing lessons ranging from what to eat (no unclean meat such as pork or oysters) to how to prepare for the "end time." In Matthew 24 she encountered the passage which reinforced her vision of their future: "Then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains."

Vicki and Randy were slipping further and further away from mainstream life. They adopted a conspiratorial world view that linked Jews to the Illuminati, Masons, and the Trilateral Commission. Randy began sleeping in a flak jacket with a loaded gun under his pillow. In an interview with a reporter for a Waterloo paper, they said they planned to build a house in the woods with a defensible 300-yard "kill zone" around its perimeter. They became increasingly isolated, as their radical beliefs caused them to lose former friends. In 1983, the couple left Iowa for good, with Randy driving a moving van and Vicki following behind in a pickup truck, heading west to meet the end time in the mountains.

And they misinterpreted the laws of the bible? Trying to get where you are going here..

I was responding to ding-dong saying those two weren't religious. I'm simply showing evidence that says he's full of shit.

 

[Carla_Danger]

And that justifies shooting his wife how?

That's what happens in shootouts. When you're standing there with bullets a flying...people get shot

That argument would have worked had she not been murdered by a sniper....

Janet Reno should have spent the rest of her life in jail for murder one. Clinton should have done time for manslaughter. I'm not a big defender of Randy personally, it doesn't justify the crimes the government committed to get him.

And you keep ignoring Waco completely. Vikki was the most cold blooded murder of the two, but the people Janet murdered in Waco makes it pale in comparison because of the sheer volume

You have no proof that she was shot on purpose by a sniper. In fact, I don't think the agent even knew she was dead right away.

The person who should have done prison time was Randy. He put his entire family in harms way simply by associating with that hate group "Aryan Nations." What kind of idiot would do that, who's a dedicated family man? What kind of father would have his 13 yr old son carry around a gun 85% of the time and make him be the one to go out and greet people arriving at his home because he was too paranoid? Randy and Vicki sent threatening letters to the Government, knowing exactly what was going to happen. They announced exactly what was going to happen. These end of lifers made sure it happened.

In 1998 Randy told a reporter that if he could do it all over, he would have showed up for his court appearance.

Randy's attorney thought about putting Sarah on as a witness, but he was afraid she'd tell the jury about how she wore swastikas, used the "N" word on a regular basis, and stole from neighbors.

Yep, that was some good parenting she was getting.

To sum up, you don't sell illegal firearms to undercover agents, while attending Aryan Nation rallies, skip court, write threatening letters to the Government, and expect to pay no consequences for your actions.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

The government shut down the investigation and kept McVeigh in isolation finally executing him in a record 7 years as opposed to the average 14 years. How could McVeigh have driven the truck and his own car at the same time? The government never seriously looked for the notorious "John Doe #2" . McVeigh's associates who were convicted were not at the blast scene.Indications are that the entire scenario was cooked up by the ATF as a "sting" that went terribly wrong. A judge was told to postpone court before the explosion and there were no ATF agents in an otherwise busy office at the time of the blast. McVeigh was captured quickly because the Feds already knew who he was and what he was driving..

I will admit, of all the strangeness I do wonder how he had a car In OK city. But then again he was alone when captured without struggle as I remember. How did they put the pieces together so quickly. It was either a remarkable bit of law enforcement work or they actually did know.

Actually it was a moving van parked right next to the building, the reason the whole thing didn't come down. And how did they catch him? They already had him in jail on an unrelated charge. He was watching the news in the jail rec room when he saw the images of the blast damage and openly lamented that he didn't manage to take the whole thing down. He wasn't even trying to get away with it, he wanted to be a martyr from the start.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Just couldn't help yourself in making it political.

It was a right wing, anti-government terrorist, you nincompoop.

Doubling down on insensitivity, no surprise.

Timothy McVeigh was a right wing terrorist, you boob.

Yes he was.

You found one.

Congratulations..

 

[Jarlaxle]

And that justifies shooting his wife how?

That's what happens in shootouts. When you're standing there with bullets a flying...people get shot

That argument would have worked had she not been murdered by a sniper....

Janet Reno should have spent the rest of her life in jail for murder one. Clinton should have done time for manslaughter. I'm not a big defender of Randy personally, it doesn't justify the crimes the government committed to get him.

And you keep ignoring Waco completely. Vikki was the most cold blooded murder of the two, but the people Janet murdered in Waco makes it pale in comparison because of the sheer volume

You have no proof that she was shot on purpose by a sniper. In fact, I don't think the agent even knew she was dead right away.

Are you totally ignorant of the facts or just lying?

 

[Carla_Danger]

And that justifies shooting his wife how?

That's what happens in shootouts. When you're standing there with bullets a flying...people get shot

That argument would have worked had she not been murdered by a sniper....

Janet Reno should have spent the rest of her life in jail for murder one. Clinton should have done time for manslaughter. I'm not a big defender of Randy personally, it doesn't justify the crimes the government committed to get him.

And you keep ignoring Waco completely. Vikki was the most cold blooded murder of the two, but the people Janet murdered in Waco makes it pale in comparison because of the sheer volume

You have no proof that she was shot on purpose by a sniper. In fact, I don't think the agent even knew she was dead right away.

Are you totally ignorant of the facts or just lying?

Prove it. Now's your chance.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Lon Horiuchi shot an unarmed woman in the head while she held her infant child. This is established fact (at two criminal trials, as well as Congressional hearings) and not disputable by anyone with knowledge of the facts.

 

[Carla_Danger]

Lon Horiuchi shot an unarmed woman in the head while she held her infant child. This is established fact (at two criminal trials, as well as Congressional hearings) and not disputable by anyone with knowledge of the facts.

The entire family was armed to the teeth the majority of the time, including the children.


The FBI had as of yet made no surrender demand when Sniper Len Horiuchi's opportunity arose shortly after taking his position. Randy, Sara, and Kevin left the cabin to visit Sammy's body in the birthing shed. As Randy reached for the shed door, a bullet tore through his arm. After the shot, the three ran back to the cabin. Vicki through open the door as her husband and eldest daughter, followed by Harris, dove in. Then another shot rang out. From inside the cabin, screams could be heard. What the HRT did not know, and what they would not find out for days, is that the second bullet from Horiuchi's .308-caliber gun had ripped its way through Vicki Weaver's brain and lodged in the arm of Kevin Harris. Three hours after the shooting, Harris, coughing up blood and in agony, begged Randy to finish him off. "Kevin, I can't do that," Randy replied.


The Randy Weaver Ruby Ridge Trial An Account

 

[Jarlaxle]

Vicki Weaver was not armed at the time she was murdered. (Indeed, she COULDN'T have been, because she did not have a free hand!) There are two possibilities: Horiuchi fired without having an identified target, or he deliberately murdered Vicki in cold blood. There are simply no other possibilities.

 

[Carla_Danger]

Vicki Weaver was not armed at the time she was murdered. (Indeed, she COULDN'T have been, because she did not have a free hand!) There are two possibilities: Horiuchi fired without having an identified target, or he deliberately murdered Vicki in cold blood. There are simply no other possibilities.

No, the other possibility is that the agent was shooting at a coward...Randy Weaver, who hid behind his family. If he were a real man, he wouldn't have put his family in danger in the first place. He also could have negotiated, and had his family removed safely from the home.

 

[Freewill]

And that justifies shooting his wife how?

That's what happens in shootouts. When you're standing there with bullets a flying...people get shot

That argument would have worked had she not been murdered by a sniper....

Janet Reno should have spent the rest of her life in jail for murder one. Clinton should have done time for manslaughter. I'm not a big defender of Randy personally, it doesn't justify the crimes the government committed to get him.

And you keep ignoring Waco completely. Vikki was the most cold blooded murder of the two, but the people Janet murdered in Waco makes it pale in comparison because of the sheer volume

You have no proof that she was shot on purpose by a sniper. In fact, I don't think the agent even knew she was dead right away.

Are you totally ignorant of the facts or just lying?

The sniper knew, he said he thought the baby she was carrying was a gun. Interestingly enough the same sniper showed up at Waco under questionable circumstances. Questionable if anyone asks the question.

All bombers are left wing, thus McVeigh was left wing.