Thousands of honor killings a year

[AllieBaba]

"Liberal fascism sounds like an oxymoron – or a term for conservatives to insult liberals. Actually, it was coined by a socialist writer, none other than the respected and influential left-winger H.G. Wells, who in 1931 called on fellow progressives to become "liberal fascists" and "enlightened Nazis." Really.

His words, indeed, fit a much larger pattern of fusing socialism with fascism: Mussolini was a leading socialist figure who, during World War I, turned away from internationalism in favor of Italian nationalism and called the blend Fascism. Likewise, Hitler headed the National Socialist German Workers Party.

"These facts jar because they contradict the political spectrum that has shaped our worldview since the late 1930s, which places communism at the far Left, followed by socialism, liberalism in the center, conservatism, and then fascism on the far Right."

"A statist ideology, fascism uses politics as the tool to transform society from atomized individuals into an organic whole. It does so by exalting the state over the individual, expert knowledge over democracy, enforced consensus over debate, and socialism over capitalism. It is totalitarian in Mussolini's original meaning of the term, of "Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State." Fascism's message boils down to "Enough talk, more action!" Its lasting appeal is getting things done.

In contrast, conservatism calls for limited government, individualism, democratic debate, and capitalism. Its appeal is liberty and leaving citizens alone."

Fascism's Legacy: Liberalism :: Daniel Pipes

 

[California Girl]

Worldwide? There are abominable acts of murder committed in every nation on Planet Earth each year, Allie. There are still infant girls killed in China due to the "one baby rule". Should we blame Americans of Chinese descent for this atrocity?

The government of China doesn't tell people to kill their babies.

The Koran tells Muslims to commit honor killings, and Muslims want Sharia world wide.

See the difference? Yes? No? Maybe?

Wrong. Honour killings are not a religious issue, but a cultural one. These crimes are committed by Hindus and Sikhs as well as Muslims. Furthermore there is no religion in the world that condones honour killings and you'll find that the koran does not instruct muslims to commit these crimes.

Honour Killings Happen in All Religions / Library / Issues and Analysis / Home - AWID

That is my understanding also. Honor killings have more to do with culture than religion.

 

[AllieBaba]

Wrong.

 

[California Girl]

Wrong.

Nope. I'm right. You are wrong, Allie.

 

[AllieBaba]

"Honor killing should never be confused with wife beating, or wife killings by husbands or other relatives. Since pre-historic ancient time people assassinated, killed, or poisoned their wives or husbands, or other family members for either adultery, love affairs (Poro-keya prem) with other man besides her husband, or for property disputes—and these are simple homicide in English terminology. They are never called honor killing. This kind of homicides did occur, still occurs, and will occur in any nations, or race throughout the human history and these are not any race, or religion related happenings by any standard. Honor killings also should never be confused, or mixed up with killings for dowry, acid throwing by unsuccessful/disappointed love stalkers (as frequently happened in the Indian sub-continent), or any other violence against women."

"Most Muslim apologists and also some gullible westerners want to argue that the ‘so called “honor killing” is not Islamic and it’s a tribal/cultural vice.’ This statement is utterly untrue and only a wish full covers up. It’s true that in pre-Islamic Arab culture this heinous honor killing of women did exist; likewise, many other uncivilized practices like stoning, flogging, beheading, slavery etc also existed in the pre-Islamic Arab society. But Islam did incorporate entirely most of these inhumane/uncivilized practices of pagan society, which they now call them Allah’s laws.

"Had it been the tribal/cultural practice, ‘honor killing’ would exist amongst the Arabs only. But honor killing does happen amongst the non-Arab Muslims also. Also Arabs belonged to all religions (Muslims, Christians, Jews, Bhai etc.) would practice honor killing with equal prevalence. Fact of the matter is—no Arab Christians, Jews or Bahai etc do practice this uncivilized act at all. Only Arab Muslims do practice this heinous act with a regular pattern.

Honor killing does happen only amongst the Muslims and these honor killings get support and encouragement from the ethical teachings of religion Islam. In 1986 this kind of honor killing did happen in the United States of America in an Arab Muslim family. In 2003 honor killing happened in Sweden again in a Muslim family. However, some very rare, sporadic case of such killing might have happened in other society or people of other religion. But they are no where near to compare with the regular pattern, or routine feature of honor killings which do happen in the Muslim nations that I have mentioned."

"Dictums of Quran and Hadiths which may dictate/incite honor killing:

Quran- 4:15 “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four (reliable) witness from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them. Or God ordain for them some (other) way.”

Quran-24:2 “The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication—flog each of them with hundred stripes: Let no compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by God, if ye believe in God and the last day.”

Quran-17:32 “ Nor come nigh to adultery: for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils).

Quran-33:33 “stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display.”

Now some sahih hadiths:

Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 63, Number 196:
Narrated Abu Huraira: A man from Bani Aslam came to Allah's Apostle while he was in the mosque and called (the Prophet ) saying, "O Allah's Apostle! I have committed illegal sexual intercourse." On that the Prophet turned his face from him to the other side, whereupon the man moved to the side towards which the Prophet had turned his face, and said, "O Allah's Apostle! I have committed illegal sexual intercourse." The Prophet turned his face (from him) to the other side whereupon the man moved to the side towards which the Prophet had turned his face, and repeated his statement. The Prophet turned his face (from him) to the other side again. The man moved again (and repeated his statement) for the fourth time. So when the man had given witness four times against himself, the Prophet called him and said, "Are you insane?" He replied, "No." The Prophet then said (to his companions), "Go and stone him to death." The man was a married one. Jabir bin 'Abdullah Al-Ansari said: I was one of those who stoned him. We stoned him at the Musalla ('Id praying place) in Medina. When the stones hit him with their sharp edges, he fled, but we caught him at Al-Harra and stoned him till he died.
(See also Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 63, Number 195.)


Sahi Bukhari: 8:6814:
Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah al-Ansari: “A man from the tribe of Bani Aslam came to Allah’s Messenger [Muhammad] and informed him that he had committed illegal sexual intercourse; and he bore witness four times against himself. Allah’s Messenger ordered him to be stoned to death as he was a married person.”

Sahi Muslim No. 4206:
“A woman came to the prophet and asked for purification by seeking punishment. He told her to go away and seek God’s forgiveness. She persisted four times and admitted she was pregnant. He told her to wait until she had given birth. Then he said that the Muslim community should wait until she had weaned her child. When the day arrived for the child to take solid food, Muhammad handed the child over to the community. And when he had given command over her and she was put in a hole up to her breast, he ordered the people to stone her. Khalid b. al-Walid came forward with a stone which he threw at her head, and when the blood spurted on her face he cursed her.”

Sahih Al-Bukhari Vol 2. pg 1009; and Sahih Muslim Vol 2. pg 65:
Hadhrat Abdullah ibne Abbaas (Radiallahu Anhu) narrates the lecture that Hadhrat Umar (Radiallaahu Anhu) delivered whilst sitting on the pulpit of Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wa Sallam). Hadhrat Umar (Radiallahu Anhu) said, "Verily, Allah sent Muhammad (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) with the truth, and revealed the Quran upon him. The verse regarding the stoning of the adulterer/ess was from amongst the verse revealed (in the Quraan). We read it, secured it and understood it. Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) stoned and we stoned after him. I fear that with the passage of time a person might say, ‘We do not find mention of stoning in the Book of Allah and thereby go astray by leaving out an obligation revealed by Allah. Verily, the stoning of a adulterer/ress is found in the Quraan and is the truth, if the witnesses are met or there is a pregnancy or confession."

Al-Bukhari:
The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “Whoever guarantees me that he will guard his chastity, I will guarantee him Paradise”.

Al-Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud, An-Nisa’i and others:
Abu Hurayrah reports that the Messenger of Allah said, “No one commits adultery while still remaining a believer, for faith is more precious unto Allah than such an evil act!” In another version, it is stated, “When a person commits adultery he casts away from his neck the bond that ties him to Islam; if, however, he repents, Allah will accept his repentance”.

Al-Bayhaqi:
The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “O mankind! Beware of fornication/adultery for it entails six dire consequences: three of them relating to this world and three to the next world. As for the three that are related to this world, they are the following: it removes the glow of one’s face, brings poverty, and reduces the life-span. As for its dire consequences in the next world they are: it brings down the wrath of Allah upon the person, subjects him to terrible reckoning, and finally casts him in hell-fire.”


Islam Watch - "?Honor Killing? is Absolutely Islamic" by Syed Kamran Mirza

 

[AllieBaba]

Educate yourself. It's stupid to try to separate "cultural" from "religious" when you're dealing with Islam, just as it's ignorant to separate "political" from "religious".

 

[007]

The government of China doesn't tell people to kill their babies.

The Koran tells Muslims to commit honor killings, and Muslims want Sharia world wide.

See the difference? Yes? No? Maybe?

Wrong. Honour killings are not a religious issue, but a cultural one. These crimes are committed by Hindus and Sikhs as well as Muslims. Furthermore there is no religion in the world that condones honour killings and you'll find that the koran does not instruct muslims to commit these crimes.

Honour Killings Happen in All Religions / Library / Issues and Analysis / Home - AWID

That is my understanding also. Honor killings have more to do with culture than religion.

OH... well it's settled then... honor killings are OK since muslims do them because of their culture and not islam.

 

[Colin]

Wrong. Honour killings are not a religious issue, but a cultural one. These crimes are committed by Hindus and Sikhs as well as Muslims. Furthermore there is no religion in the world that condones honour killings and you'll find that the koran does not instruct muslims to commit these crimes.

Honour Killings Happen in All Religions / Library / Issues and Analysis / Home - AWID

That is my understanding also. Honor killings have more to do with culture than religion.

OH... well it's settled then... honor killings are OK since muslims do them because of their culture and not islam.

Where did she say honour killings are OK? Where did I say honour killings are ok?

 

[007]

That is my understanding also. Honor killings have more to do with culture than religion.

OH... well it's settled then... honor killings are OK since muslims do them because of their culture and not islam.

Where did she say honour killings are OK? Where did I say honour killings are ok?

Where did either of you say they're NOT OK?

You appear to be defending the practice, since there's no condemnation on your part.

 

[xotoxi]

OH... well it's settled then... honor killings are OK since muslims do them because of their culture and not islam.

Where did she say honour killings are OK? Where did I say honour killings are ok?

Where did either of you say they're NOT OK?

You appear to be defending the practice, since there's no condemnation on your part.

Actually...you are the only person who has said "honor killings are OK since muslims do them because of their culture and not islam".

See:

OH... well it's settled then... honor killings are OK since muslims do them because of their culture and not islam.

Unfortunately, I did not alter your quote, so there is nothing to complain about to the adminstration.

 

[AllieBaba]

Quit lurking, xo. It's rude.

 

[007]

Where did she say honour killings are OK? Where did I say honour killings are ok?

Where did either of you say they're NOT OK?

You appear to be defending the practice, since there's no condemnation on your part.

Actually...you are the only person who has said "honor killings are OK since muslims do them because of their culture and not islam".

See:

OH... well it's settled then... honor killings are OK since muslims do them because of their culture and not islam.

Unfortunately, I did not alter your quote, so there is nothing to complain about to the adminstration.

Actually, my quote is of what I extrapolated from another's comments, so you are only partially correct.

My other comment however, the one you completely ignored, is 100% correct.

You can now whine because I didn't give you any rep... doctor...

 

[xotoxi]

Where did either of you say they're NOT OK?

You appear to be defending the practice, since there's no condemnation on your part.

Actually...you are the only person who has said "honor killings are OK since muslims do them because of their culture and not islam".

See:

OH... well it's settled then... honor killings are OK since muslims do them because of their culture and not islam.

Unfortunately, I did not alter your quote, so there is nothing to complain about to the adminstration.

Actually, my quote is of what I extrapolated from another's comments, so you are only partially correct.

My other comment however, the one you completely ignored, is 100% correct.

You can now whine because I didn't give you any rep... doctor...

Actually, I read every post in this thread and in none of them has anyone said "HONOR KILLINGS ARE AN ABOMINATION!"

Until now...

HONOR KILLINGS ARE AN ABOMINATION!

OH... well it's settled then... honor killings are OK since muslims do them because of their culture and not islam.

Unfortunately, I did not alter your quote, so there is nothing to complain about to the adminstration.[/quote]

I disagree with you, Pale. Honor killings are NOT OK!!!

 

[007]

Quit lurking, xo. It's rude.

The little neighbor boy just left his make believe doctor office in his moms basement, so he's between patients...

 

[topspin]

Fundemantalist christians are just as bad as fundementalist muslims.

 

[Madeline]

Putting up a "straw baby girl" doesn't answer the first question.

Tell me you also think that only China offs baby girls?

Care to offer an opinion as to the compatibility of Sharia Law and muslims in general to the US lifestyle?

How many U.S. Muslims engage in honor killings?

How many U.S. "bubba's" feel it's ok to beat their wives cause the bible tells them the man's in charge?

How many of those women are killed?

Are the bubbas following the doctrine of one particular religion?

Why no, they aren't.

BTW, the majority of women killed by bubbas are black, so you might want to revise your language a little, and visit the CDC once in a while.

Well, I'll be damned. Apparently this is true.

I dun know if the statistics I found would support the contention that "black women comprise the majority of victims of intimate partner homicide" but black women do have a significantly higher risk of such violence and death.

Survey of Recent Statistics 

 

[007]

Actually, I read every post in this thread and in none of them has anyone said "HONOR KILLINGS ARE AN ABOMINATION!"

Until now...

HONOR KILLINGS ARE AN ABOMINATION!

Well GEE xo... we'll just have to REWARD you for that major act of COURAGE...

 

[Madeline]

And thanks for bringing China up, Madeline. Because China is a perfect example of what happens when you let liberal policies worm their way into law.

China is a fascist dictatorship, Allie. It is anything but "liberal".

Of course it's liberal. The whole stupid argument about liberalism and fascism being diametrically opposed is idiotic, as anyone with any concept of history and reality knows.

China is communist. That's about as liberal as you get. Workers unite, get rid of religion, one baby per household, everybody equally poor, communal health care, so on and so forth. It's as liberal as you get.

China refers to itself as communist. In fact, it is 180 degrees different...there has never been a communist nation formed anywhere on Planet Earth. People are just not inclined towards cooperation and mutual support. You can only view China as communist if you view the Stalin era of the former Soviet Russia as a communist nation....in which case, the adjective ceases to have any meaning arising from the works of Marx, etc.

 

[xotoxi]

Quit lurking, xo. It's rude.

The little neighbor boy just left his make believe doctor office in his moms basement, so he's between patients...

Ad hominems...Pale's only skill.

 

[007]

Quit lurking, xo. It's rude.

The little neighbor boy just left his make believe doctor office in his moms basement, so he's between patients...

Ad hominems...Pale's only skill.

Lurking... xo's favorite trick.