This will make you go 'Hm.' Bush and Churchill, the original zionists?

[abi]

Hey, they're not even Jewish?

Did anyone know about this? Half a century before Herzl?

Before you lose your minds, no, not either of our Presidents, obviously, but a distant ancestor and their namesake. And no, not Sir Winston, but an ancestor of his as well. I found this amazing considering what we know today of the Bush family and of Churchill's relationship with both the zionists and the nazis.

Okay, sit back, relax and enjoy. And meet your real fathers of zionism.

George Bush (12 June 1796, Norwich, Vermont – 19 September 1859, Rochester, New York) was an American biblical scholar, pastor, abolitionist, academic and advocate for the restoration of the Jews to the Holy Land. He is distantly related to the Bush political family.[1]
George Bush (biblical scholar) - Wikipedia

Around 1830 this guy starts writing books about Islam that today would be considered disgusting (maybe not here). He sounds like some of the zionists on this board, pure hatred. He then writes in 1844, The Valley of Vision; or, The Dry Bones of Israel Revived. In it he denounced “the thralldom and oppression which has so long ground them (the Jews) to the dust,” and called for “elevating” the Jews “to a rank of honorable repute among the nations of the earth” by re-creating the Jewish State in the land of Israel.

This, according to Bush, would benefit not only the Jews, but all of mankind, forming a “link of communication” between humanity and God. “It will blaze in notoriety...". “It will flash a splendid demonstration upon all kindreds and tongues of the truth.”
George Bush, Biblical & Jewish Scholar

Although considered radical for those days, “The Valley of Vision” sold more than a million copies- an unheard amount for the era before the American Civil War, and it turned Professor Bush into a national voice calling for the restoration of the Jewish people to their historic homeland. His writing had a profound impact in shaping their views of the Jews and their homeland, including men of influence like Mark Twain, Abraham Lincoln, Woodrow Wilson and Teddy Roosevelt.
Professor George Bush (1796-1859) - FOZ Museum

Okay, that was pretty interesting, yes? Great, now stay with me here.

Colonel Charles Henry Churchill (1807–1869), also known as "Churchill Bey",[1][2][3] was a British army officer and diplomat. He was a British consul in Ottoman Syria, and he created the first political plan for Zionism and the creation of the state of Israel in the region of Ottoman Palestine.[4][5]

The proposal correspondence with Sir Moses Montefiore, the President of the Board of Deputies of British Jews, in which Churchill proposed a strategy for the creating of a Jewish state, pre-dating formal Zionism by approximately half a century.
Charles Henry Churchill - Wikipedia

His letter to Moses and the Board of Deputies of British Jews that was written, 14 June 1841, and more the formal proposal dated, 15 August 1842, can both be read at the above link.

I am such a history nerd, who knew?

 

[rylah]

Hey, they're not even Jewish?

Did anyone know about this? Half a century before Herzl?

Before you lose your minds, no, not either of our Presidents, obviously, but a distant ancestor and their namesake. And no, not Sir Winston, but an ancestor of his as well. I found this amazing considering what we know today of the Bush family and of Churchill's relationship with both the zionists and the nazis.

Okay, sit back, relax and enjoy. And meet your real fathers of zionism.

George Bush (12 June 1796, Norwich, Vermont – 19 September 1859, Rochester, New York) was an American biblical scholar, pastor, abolitionist, academic and advocate for the restoration of the Jews to the Holy Land. He is distantly related to the Bush political family.[1]
George Bush (biblical scholar) - Wikipedia

Around 1830 this guy starts writing books about Islam that today would be considered disgusting (maybe not here). He sounds like some of the zionists on this board, pure hatred. He then writes in 1844, The Valley of Vision; or, The Dry Bones of Israel Revived. In it he denounced “the thralldom and oppression which has so long ground them (the Jews) to the dust,” and called for “elevating” the Jews “to a rank of honorable repute among the nations of the earth” by re-creating the Jewish State in the land of Israel.

This, according to Bush, would benefit not only the Jews, but all of mankind, forming a “link of communication” between humanity and God. “It will blaze in notoriety...". “It will flash a splendid demonstration upon all kindreds and tongues of the truth.”
George Bush, Biblical & Jewish Scholar

Although considered radical for those days, “The Valley of Vision” sold more than a million copies- an unheard amount for the era before the American Civil War, and it turned Professor Bush into a national voice calling for the restoration of the Jewish people to their historic homeland. His writing had a profound impact in shaping their views of the Jews and their homeland, including men of influence like Mark Twain, Abraham Lincoln, Woodrow Wilson and Teddy Roosevelt.
Professor George Bush (1796-1859) - FOZ Museum

Okay, that was pretty interesting, yes? Great, now stay with me here.

Colonel Charles Henry Churchill (1807–1869), also known as "Churchill Bey",[1][2][3] was a British army officer and diplomat. He was a British consul in Ottoman Syria, and he created the first political plan for Zionism and the creation of the state of Israel in the region of Ottoman Palestine.[4][5]

The proposal correspondence with Sir Moses Montefiore, the President of the Board of Deputies of British Jews, in which Churchill proposed a strategy for the creating of a Jewish state, pre-dating formal Zionism by approximately half a century.
Charles Henry Churchill - Wikipedia

His letter to Moses and the Board of Deputies of British Jews that was written, 14 June 1841, and more the formal proposal dated, 15 August 1842, can both be read at the above link.

I am such a history nerd, who knew?

Oh was I waiting for that opportunity...
Let me give You the MISSING LINK:

Yehuda Bivas

Rabbi Yehuda Aryeh Leon Bibas (circa 1789-1859 ) was a Sephardic rabbi , rabbi of the Corfu community, apreacher of Zionism , an arbiter and Kabbalist , with an academic degree and broad general education, traveling And is connected to the world. [2]

As far as is known, he preceded political Zionism in his world view and proposals. He called upon the people of Israel to stop the passive expectation of redemption and to do something to bring them closer. In his view, as expressed by his disciple Rabbi Yehuda Alkalai , the general answer required before redemption is specifically the aliyah to Eretz Israel and the settlement there. Inspired by the Greek War of Independence , Bibas wrote that the Jews should train weapons such as the Greeks and conquer the Land of Israel from the Ottoman Empire inorder to establish their state. [3] His bold call for arms was innovative for its time and preceded the teachings of the other forerunners of Zionism . At the end of his life, Rabbi Bivas immigrated to Eretz Israel and lived in Hebron .

Rabbi Yehuda Aryeh Leon Bibas

 

[abi]

Oh was I waiting for that opportunity...
Let me give You the MISSING LINK:

Awesome, I will bring it over to the other thread. Thanks.

 

[rylah]

Rabbi Chaim Ben Attar

Rabbi Chaim ben Attar (or Aben Atar, known as Or HaChaim or Or HaChaim, after his book, 1696, He was one of the greatest commentators of the Bible in the last few years, a commentator on the Talmud, a Kabbalist and a halakhic authority.
Rabbi Chaim Ben Attar lived in Morocco for most of his life. During this period he was known mainly among Moroccan Jews. When he was forty-three, he immigrated to Eretz Israel with his two wives and a group of students who planned to establish a yeshiva in the Land of Israel, while calling upon the Jews he met on his way to join them. On his journey to Palestine, he passed through Italy, where he printed his books that gave him his name throughout the entire Jewish Diaspora, including the European one. After a period of wandering in northern Israel, he settled in Jerusalem where he established his yeshiva, Midrash Knesset Yisrael. Died about a year after his arrival in Jerusalem, in the summer of 1743, at the age of 47.

Rabbi Chaim ben Attar

 

[abi]

This is pretty unreal as the BBC reported:

Secret wartime discussions about Palestine between Winston Churchill and the future Israeli President Chaim Weizmann led to an icy exchange with Anthony Eden, the British foreign secretary, according to official papers just released at the National Archives at Kew, London.

A top-secret Colonial Office file from 1943 shows that Mr Churchill favoured a plan to try to bribe King Abdul Aziz Ibn Saud, with £20m and the leadership of a new Arab confederation, in exchange for the Saudi monarch's help in handing over Palestine to the Jews.

As Mr Eden pointed out to his boss, such a move would be the opposite of British official policy.
BBC NEWS | Americas | UK archives reveal Palestine plan

This must have been after Chaim Weizmann's letter to Churchill about getting America into war as in WW1?

 

[rylah]

This is pretty unreal as the BBC reported:

Secret wartime discussions about Palestine between Winston Churchill and the future Israeli President Chaim Weizmann led to an icy exchange with Anthony Eden, the British foreign secretary, according to official papers just released at the National Archives at Kew, London.

A top-secret Colonial Office file from 1943 shows that Mr Churchill favoured a plan to try to bribe King Abdul Aziz Ibn Saud, with £20m and the leadership of a new Arab confederation, in exchange for the Saudi monarch's help in handing over Palestine to the Jews.

As Mr Eden pointed out to his boss, such a move would be the opposite of British official policy.
BBC NEWS | Americas | UK archives reveal Palestine plan

This must have been after Chaim Weizmann's letter to Churchill about getting America into war as in WW1?

I showed You earlier, and rabbis instead of politicians.
It didn't start in the offices...

 

[abi]

I showed You earlier, and rabbis instead of politicians.
It didn't start in the offices...

But, Bush and Churchill were clearly relevant to the zionist movement some 50 years before Herzl, which certainly is interesting. Are you aware, that right now there are some 50 million Christian zionists in America alone? Heck, there are only around 15 million of us, and many Jews aren't even zionists.

 

[teddyearp]

Hmmm all right. Thank you for the history lesson(s) but what do you think it is supposed to achieve?

 

[abi]

Hmmm all right. Thank you for the history lesson(s) but what do you think it is supposed to achieve?

I found it fascinating. Achieve by what?

 

[rylah]

I showed You earlier, and rabbis instead of politicians.
It didn't start in the offices...

But, Bush and Churchill were clearly relevant to the zionist movement some 50 years before Herzl, which certainly is interesting. Are you aware, that right now there are some 50 million Christian zionists in America alone? Heck, there are only around 15 million of us, and many Jews aren't even zionists.

Who're Bush and Churchill really??

Who is Rabbi Haim ben Attar?

In my opinion, we're talking about the essence of Zionism, while abi tries really hard to push the racist BS.

 

[abi]

Who're Bush and Churchill really??

Bush wrote a book half a century before we heard of Herzyl that put forth the zionist agenda. It sold over a million copies and was obviously read by many more. That was astounding for that time. He very likely might be the father of Christian zionism in America, a population today of around 50 million.

And Churchill, (as I thought you read) created the first political plan for Zionism and the creation of the state of Israel in the region of Ottoman Palestine.[4][5]

They were pretty important to the movement I would say.

 

[rylah]

I showed You earlier, and rabbis instead of politicians.
It didn't start in the offices...

But, Bush and Churchill were clearly relevant to the zionist movement some 50 years before Herzl, which certainly is interesting. Are you aware, that right now there are some 50 million Christian zionists in America alone? Heck, there are only around 15 million of us, and many Jews aren't even zionists.

In short - neither Churchill nor Bush were what You title claimed.

 

[abi]

In short - neither Churchill nor Bush were what You title claimed.

My title ended with a question mark. You do know what a claim is, correct?

And I have no idea why you are so triggered. Is it because you had to learn this from me?

 

[rylah]

Who're Bush and Churchill really??

Bush wrote a book half a century before we heard of Herzyl that put forth the zionist agenda. It sold over a million copies and was obviously read by many more. That was astounding for that time. He very likely might be the father of Christian zionism in America, a population today of around 50 million.

And Churchill, (as I thought you read) created the first political plan for Zionism and the creation of the state of Israel in the region of Ottoman Palestine.[4][5]

They were pretty important to the movement I would say.

Nothing original about their plans.
Look at the generous baron, look at the Jews in Israel and Morocco.

Sephardic community mostly.

 

[abi]

Nothing original about their plans.
Look at the generous baron, look at the Jews in Israel and Morocco.

Sephardic community mostly.

I never said it was original, but it was early on, be serious, 50 years before Herzl?

And let's test your theory. Can you show me even one book concerning the zionist agenda that was circulated and was more widely read prior to what Bush wrote?

And, in the same vain, are you aware of any documents prior to Churchill's?

I find this fascinating, I would love to know, sorry you've become triggered on this one. I really don't see why. It's just history.

 

[rylah]

Nothing original about their plans.
Look at the generous baron, look at the Jews in Israel and Morocco.

Sephardic community mostly.

I never said it was original, but it was early on, be serious, 50 years before Herzl?

And let's test your theory. Can you show me even one book concerning the zionist agenda that was circulated and was more widely read prior to what Bush wrote?

And, in the same vain, are you aware of any documents prior to Churchill's?

I find this fascinating, I would love to know, sorry you've become triggered on this one. I really don't see why. It's just history.

 

[teddyearp]

"Achieve by what?" ??

What I mean is most thread that delve into the history are just attempts by one side or the other to demonize the 'other' side by implying, "see, 'they' started it". They some times will go back to Adam and Eve if they could.

What does this achieve? Nothing. No amount of this is going to chand the HERE AND NOW facts on the ground.

 

[abi]

"Achieve by what?" ??

What I mean is most thread that delve into the history are just attempts by one side or the other to demonize the 'other' side by implying, "see, 'they' started it". They some times will go back to Adam and Eve if they could.

What does this achieve? Nothing. No amount of this is going to chand the HERE AND NOW facts on the ground.

I guess I'm just a history nerd.

I am really curious about the whole Christian zionist thing. Are their any Christian zionists on this board who are willing to come on here and explain the motivation. I am really interested in any firsthand accounts.

 

[teddyearp]

I am really curious about the whole Christian zionist thing. Are their any Christian zionists on this board who are willing to come on here and explain the motivation. I am really interested in any firsthand accounts.

Why not start another thread for this? You certainly do not have enough of them yet.

 

[abi]

Why not start another thread for this? You certainly do not have enough of them yet.

Why don't you explain it? I mean you knew nothing of the fact that two of the most important figures in zionist history were not even Jewish. And half a century before Herzl? I have been searching for zionist writings in America before Bush's who sold over a million copies. This may be where Christian zionism began.