They said it: Israeli leaders on Palestine

[RoccoR]

Coyote, Ropey, et al,

This may be more true than anyone realizes.

I don't think either side listens very well.

They don't have to since they've got all this 'help'.

That's why it continues.

Good point

(COMMENT)

Since a time before the creation and adoption of the Partition Plan, the arose two sides to the issue.

• The Arabs believed strongly that the entire territory of the Mandate was, and still is, Arab, and belongs to the Arab exclusively. That no one had the right to maintain sovereignty over the territory except the Arab.
  
  • The Balfour Declaration and all the follow-on instruments to achieve that dream, cannot in any case be considered valid as regards Arab Palestine; as it was not adopted by the Arab Palestinian.
    
  • That the overall concept behind the San Remo Convention and the implementation of the measures to create the Jewish National Homeland ignored Palestine's right to self-determination both at the time it was issued and afterwards.

• The Middle East, the ancient lands, is the point of origin for the Jewish People. No one argues this point.
  
  • Expulsions: Whether we talk about the expulsion from Canhage (250 AD), or the expulsions from in Europe during the 15th and 16th Century; or, the Holocaust in the 20th Century, it is a matter of record. And except for the Ottoman Empire, there were very few places of refuge.
    
  • Religious Freedom: Again, whether we talk about the 224 AD Forced Conversions, or 628 - 633 AD forced conversions in Byzantium, Merovingia or Toledo; or the Inquisition, Forced Conversions, Massacres & Property Confiscation between 1230 and 1240 in Rome, France and England, the history is clear. The need for a Jewish National Home for a safe haven was necessary.

Neither side has listened to one another except on rare occasions. Certainly not since the Faisal-Weisman Agreement.

Neither side really hears the other or understands the other in a compassionate way.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Hossfly]

No.

That's historically incorrect.

Most Arab squatters came to Israel at the beginning of the 20st century and suddenly invented a false nation that didn't exist before.

Research and data from various sources including Zionist sources, shows that hundreds of thousands of Arabs lived in Palestine prior to the 20th century.

These neverending stories about Palestine being void of people until the middle of the 20th century, that no Arabs were expelled from Israel during the 1948 War, is tantamount to Historical Revionism and Genocide Denial.

This is a very good point.

I have started to find it very disturbing on this board to see the ease with which some allegedly pro-Israeli posters reinvent history with a flick of their fingers.

If Ben Gurion was man enough to refer to ethnic cleansing in 1947, I think Israelis living in the country he helped found could follow his example.

"Regarding the Galilee, Mr. [Moshe] Sharett already told you that about 100,000 Arabs still now live in the pocket of Galilee. Let us assume that a war breaks out. Then we will be able to cleanse the entire area of Central Galilee, including all its refugees, in one stroke. In this context let me mention some mediators who offered to give us the Galilee without war. What they meant was the populated Galilee. They didn’t offer us the empty Galilee, which we could have only by means of a war. Therefore if a war is extended to cover the whole of Palestine, our greatest gain will be the Galilee. It is because without any special military effort which might imperil other fronts, only by using the troops already assigned for the task, we could accomplish our aim of cleansing the Galilee."

David Ben-Gurion - Wikiquote

The big question here is when Saigon or one of his like-minded friends is going to drag these quotes up again. They have been dragged up from the NeoNazi/Islamofascist hate sites over and over throughout the years, while the people who are busy digging them up have no time to go on other forums and condemn what is happening to innocent people in other Middle East Countries, Asia and Africa. They are more concerned with alleged quotes by Israeli leaders than, let's say, the millions of people who have been displaced because of the Syrian War or the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood wanting to cleanse Egypt of the Christian Copts because they feel the Copts are outsiders even though the Copts were there before the Muslims. I think many of the posters as well as the viewers realize by no that these quotes seems to be one of the items on the menu de jour for others who think just like Saigon..

 

[Hossfly]

Really, Tinnie??? Meanwhile the Arab population has grown by leaps and bounds in that area. Israel sure must have been doing a lousy job of ethnic cleansing throughout the years. By the way, when the one-time poster went to the offices of Haaretz, they looked through their archives and came back and said that they never published anything regarding Dayan's alleged statement. I wonder if Tinnie and Saigon could tell us how that can be when this Dayan statement is on the NeoNazi/Islamofascist hate sites along with the other quotes. And it would be nice if Saigon would explain to us why he had to drag up these quotes again. I think anyone who has been on these forums for several years must have seen these quotes about 500 times by now.

 

[Hoffstra]

Really, Tinnie??? Meanwhile the Arab population has grown by leaps and bounds in that area. Israel sure must have been doing a lousy job of ethnic cleansing throughout the years. By the way, when the one-time poster went to the offices of Haaretz, they looked through their archives and came back and said that they never published anything regarding Dayan's alleged statement. I wonder if Tinnie and Saigon could tell us how that can be when this Dayan statement is on the NeoNazi/Islamofascist hate sites along with the other quotes. And it would be nice if Saigon would explain to us why he had to drag up these quotes again. I think anyone who has been on these forums for several years must have seen these quotes about 500 times by now.

Israel only committed ethnic cleansing against Arabs in Israel in 1948 and 1949. They stopped after that, but were able to cleanse Palestinians in 1967.

Had Israel not committed ethnic cleansing in 1948 and 1949, there would 4 million Israeli Arabs not 1.3 million.

 

[Roudy]

It doesn't matter. It's not as though there's anyone from the other side listening. Even their more moderate side takers don't so why would the more extreme ones?

There's the real quandary, not peace.

It is very dishonest to refer to Transjordan as "Arab Palestine" considering that the Balfour Declaration, nor the Palestine Mandate, nor the San Remo Conference, did such a thing.

Fact is that when the West Bank was ruled by Jordan, the USA referred to the West Bank as "Arab Palestine".

Talking of dishonesty, the West Bank was ruled by Jordan because Jordan and 5 Arab countries attacked the newly formed Jewish state, which resulted in Judea and Samaria falling under Jordanian "occupation". Jordan then changed the name of Judeah and Samria, the name of the region for 3000 years, to "West Bank". During the 20 years that Jordan ruled the West Bank and Egypt ruled Gaza, not one Jordanian, Egyptian, or Arab living in the region uttered the word Palestine. Why? Because the concept of an Arab Palestinian was a joke, even the Arabs scoffed at the thought.

Now there is some real honesty.


Let us hear what other Arabs have said:

"There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it".

- Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937 -


"There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not".

- Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian, 1946 -


"It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria".

- Representant of Saudi Arabia at the United Nations, 1956 -


Concerning the Holy Land, the chairman of the Syrian Delegation at the Paris Peace Conference in February 1919 stated:

"The only Arab domination since the Conquest in 635 c.e. hardly lasted, as such, 22 years".

“Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?”
“We did not particularly mind Jordanian rule. The teaching of the destruction of Israel was a definite part of the curriculum, but we considered ourselves Jordanian until the Jews returned to Jerusalem. Then all of the sudden we were Palestinians - they removed the star from the Jordanian flag and all at once we had a Palestinian flag”.
“When I finally realized the lies and myths I was taught, it is my duty as a righteous person to speak out”.

This declaration by a true "Palestinian" should have some significance for a sincerely neutral observer. Indeed, there is no such a thing like a Palestinian people, or a Palestinian culture, or a Palestinian language, or a Palestinian history. There has never been any Palestinian state, neither any Palestinian archaeological find nor coinage.

 

[Hoffstra]

Talking of dishonesty, the West Bank was ruled by Jordan because Jordan and 5 Arab countries attacked the newly formed Jewish state, which resulted in Judea and Samaria falling under Jordanian "occupation". Jordan then changed the name of Judeah and Samria, the name of the region for 3000 years, to "West Bank".

Talking of dishonesty, the land was never commonly referred to as "Judea & Samaria".

All the old maps call it Palestine or The Holy Land.

 

[Roudy]

Talking of dishonesty, the West Bank was ruled by Jordan because Jordan and 5 Arab countries attacked the newly formed Jewish state, which resulted in Judea and Samaria falling under Jordanian "occupation". Jordan then changed the name of Judeah and Samria, the name of the region for 3000 years, to "West Bank".

Talking of dishonesty, the land was never commonly referred to as "Judea & Samaria".

All the old maps call it Palestine or The Holy Land.

Link?

The region was labeled as "southern Syria" by the Ottomans who ruled it for 700 years. And then the British took over and called it Palestine.

 

[Hoffstra]

Talking of dishonesty, the West Bank was ruled by Jordan because Jordan and 5 Arab countries attacked the newly formed Jewish state, which resulted in Judea and Samaria falling under Jordanian "occupation". Jordan then changed the name of Judeah and Samria, the name of the region for 3000 years, to "West Bank".

Talking of dishonesty, the land was never commonly referred to as "Judea & Samaria".

All the old maps call it Palestine or The Holy Land.

Link?

The region was labeled as "southern Syria" by the Ottomans who ruled it for 700 years. And then the British took over and called it Palestine.

Link?

you think I made those maps on my own?

I'm flattered, but I'm not that knowledgeable.

 

[Hossfly]

Talking of dishonesty, the land was never commonly referred to as "Judea & Samaria".

All the old maps call it Palestine or The Holy Land.

Link?

The region was labeled as "southern Syria" by the Ottomans who ruled it for 700 years. And then the British took over and called it Palestine.

Link?

you think I made those maps on my own?

I'm flattered, but I'm not that knowledgeable.

C'mon, Captain Knowledge, don't act so modest. We know you're as smart as a Brandeis student.

 

[Hoffstra]

Link?

The region was labeled as "southern Syria" by the Ottomans who ruled it for 700 years. And then the British took over and called it Palestine.

Link?

you think I made those maps on my own?

I'm flattered, but I'm not that knowledgeable.

C'mon, Captain Knowledge, don't act so modest. We know you're as smart as a Brandeis student.

Google: "Palestine old maps".

You shall find them all there.

 

[Roudy]

Talking of dishonesty, the land was never commonly referred to as "Judea & Samaria".

All the old maps call it Palestine or The Holy Land.

Link?

The region was labeled as "southern Syria" by the Ottomans who ruled it for 700 years. And then the British took over and called it Palestine.

Link?

you think I made those maps on my own?

I'm flattered, but I'm not that knowledgeable.

The maps are meaningless. The region known as Palestine was ruled by the Ottoman Empire for 700 years, Arabs never considered themselves Palestinians, the label referred only to Jews until Arafat the terrorist thief decided to hijack both the name and some planes in the 1960's.

 

[Roudy]

Link?

The region was labeled as "southern Syria" by the Ottomans who ruled it for 700 years. And then the British took over and called it Palestine.

Link?

you think I made those maps on my own?

I'm flattered, but I'm not that knowledgeable.

C'mon, Captain Knowledge, don't act so modest. We know you're as smart as a Brandeis student.

 

[Roudy]

Link?

you think I made those maps on my own?

I'm flattered, but I'm not that knowledgeable.

C'mon, Captain Knowledge, don't act so modest. We know you're as smart as a Brandeis student.

Google: "Palestine old maps".

You shall find them all there.

Oh and that's the name the ottomans called it for 700 years? <LOL>

 

[Hoffstra]

The maps are meaningless. The region known as Palestine was ruled by the Ottoman Empire for 700 years, Arabs never considered themselves Palestinians, the label referred only to Jews until Arafat the terrorist thief decided to hijack both the name and some planes in the 1960's.

This is false.

The Arab of Palestine were called Palestinians since at least 1911.

 

[Hossfly]

Link?

you think I made those maps on my own?

I'm flattered, but I'm not that knowledgeable.

C'mon, Captain Knowledge, don't act so modest. We know you're as smart as a Brandeis student.

Google: "Palestine old maps".

You shall find them all there.

Couldn't find 'em. Will these do?

About.com: http://www.mideastweb.org/palearly.htm

 

[Hoffstra]

Oh and that's the name the ottomans called it for 700 years? <LOL>

The land was known as Palestine for centuries.

 

[Hossfly]

The maps are meaningless. The region known as Palestine was ruled by the Ottoman Empire for 700 years, Arabs never considered themselves Palestinians, the label referred only to Jews until Arafat the terrorist thief decided to hijack both the name and some planes in the 1960's.

This is false.

The Arab of Palestine were called Palestinians since at least 1911.

Are you sure? Are you sure you're sure? Pray tell, what did they call Jews during that time.

 

[Roudy]

The maps are meaningless. The region known as Palestine was ruled by the Ottoman Empire for 700 years, Arabs never considered themselves Palestinians, the label referred only to Jews until Arafat the terrorist thief decided to hijack both the name and some planes in the 1960's.

This is false.

The Arab of Palestine were called Palestinians since at least 1911.

Wow, an ancient name for an ancient people. How ancient you may ask? I submit to you:

"At least since 1911".

 

[Roudy]

Oh and that's the name the ottomans called it for 700 years? <LOL>

The land was known as Palestine for centuries.

Bzzzzzzz. Wrong answer.

Ottoman map:

 

[RoccoR]

Hoffstra; et al,

Palestine was an "undefined territory" for the duration of Ottoman Rule.

Link?

you think I made those maps on my own?

I'm flattered, but I'm not that knowledgeable.

C'mon, Captain Knowledge, don't act so modest. We know you're as smart as a Brandeis student.

Google: "Palestine old maps".

You shall find them all there.

(COMMENT)

There is a certain amount of truth to the comment that "Palestine" was made-up.

(REMEMBER)

ARTICLE 95.

The High Contracting Parties agree to entrust, by application of the provisions of Article 22, the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, to a Mandatory to be selected by the said Powers.​

SOURCE: THE TREATY OF PEACE BETWEEN THE ALLIED AND ASSOCIATED POWERS AND TURKEY SIGNED AT SÈVRES AUGUST 10, 1920

Most Respectfully,
R