They said it: Israeli leaders on Palestine

[Saigon]

"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."

-- Moshe Dayan, April 1969, Ha'aretz; quoted in Edward Said, 'Zionism from the Standpoint of Its Victims', Social Text, Volume 1, 1979, 7-58.

"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.

"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!"
-- Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.

"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."

-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.

"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours...Everything we don't grab will go to them."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, Nov. 15, 1998.

"Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial."

-- Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 25 March, 2001 quoted in BBC News Online

 

[Saigon]

I want to make absolutely clear that I support Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state, and I support the right of Israeli people to live in peace.

I just think that we should all be as honest about that process of settlement as Israeli's leaders are here.

 

[Lipush]

I want to make absolutely clear that I support Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state, and I support the right of Israeli people to live in peace.

I just think that we should all be as honest about that process of settlement as Israeli's leaders are here.

However and howmuch 'fanatic' this may sound, at least those were honest. I rather always deal with fanatic leaders than with liars who tell us something, and their own people something else.

 

[Saigon]

Lipush -

Yes, they were honest statements, I agree.

But my point is here is really to ask why some of our more fanatical posters keep up this game of pretending that land was not stolen or occupied, when Israel's own leaders have often been happy to admit it.

I don't see any contradiction in admitting that yes, land was stolen and yes, Israel has a right to exist.

 

[Lipush]

Lipush -

Yes, they were honest statements, I agree.

But my point is here is really to ask why some of our more fanatical posters keep up this game of pretending that land was not stolen or occupied, when Israel's own leaders have often been happy to admit it.

I don't see any contradiction in admitting that yes, land was stolen and yes, Israel has a right to exist.

what might see as stolen, hundreds of thousands here see as 'freed'. and stealing something back from a theif is not really theft.

Israel doesn't believe the question here is about land. If it was really about land, this would have been a problem easy to solve., IMHO.

If there is a Palestine, let the settlers living in Judea and Samari stay and be residents of Palestine. If treated equaly and fairly in there, there should be no problem, if not, they'll come back, and the Palestinian racism will be finally exposed in all its glory.

But since it's all hypothetical, the Palestinians don't really want a state that doesn't include the Jews being destroyed, Israel is not going to give up the west bank either. and we're stuck in a reality that is bad, but can only become 10 times worse.

 

[Sunni Man]

..........................................^^^^^^^ Typical zionist double talk with zero substance. ..

 

[Lipush]

..........................................^^^^^^^ Typical zionist double talk with zero substance. ..

Typical Muslim extremism speech with no connection to reality.

 

[P F Tinmore]

"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."

-- Moshe Dayan, April 1969, Ha'aretz; quoted in Edward Said, 'Zionism from the Standpoint of Its Victims', Social Text, Volume 1, 1979, 7-58.

"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.

"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!"
-- Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.

"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."

-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.

"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours...Everything we don't grab will go to them."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, Nov. 15, 1998.

"Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial."

-- Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 25 March, 2001 quoted in BBC News Online

Ethnic cleansing was a preplanned policy in the creation of Israel.

 

[Sunni Man]

..........................................^^^^^^^ Typical zionist double talk with zero substance. ..

Typical Muslim extremism speech with no connection to reality.

True......only rabid zionists like you understand the convoluted idiocy of zionist reality. ..

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Let's not forget that Jews were driven out by the Arabs in Hebron (1929), the Shimon Hatzaddik neighborhoods of East Jerusalem (1948), and from all of Judea (70 CE).

 

[Saigon]

Let's not forget that Jews were driven out by the Arabs in Hebron (1929), the Shimon Hatzaddik neighborhoods of East Jerusalem (1948), and from all of Judea (70 CE).

Absolutely...

 

[MHunterB]

..........................................^^^^^^^ Typical zionist double talk with zero substance. ..

In what way do you consider that 'double talk', Sunni?

And how does it 'lack substance' to you?

As for the 'typical' - that's entirely Inaccurate, IME: Lipush is voicing an idea which I've seldom heard.

Please - don't just make disparaging snide asides, but illustrate just what you are taking issue with .

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Here's another one coming out of the closet, Saigon....

Gen. Pundak: Kill 500 in Gaza and They'll be Quiet - Defense/Security - News - Israel National News


In an interview on the occasion of his 100th birthday, Pundak confirmed that forces under his command razed Arab villages in 1948.


.........

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."

-- Moshe Dayan, April 1969, Ha'aretz; quoted in Edward Said, 'Zionism from the Standpoint of Its Victims', Social Text, Volume 1, 1979, 7-58.

"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.

"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!"
-- Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.

"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."

-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.

"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours...Everything we don't grab will go to them."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, Nov. 15, 1998.

"Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial."

-- Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 25 March, 2001 quoted in BBC News Online

It seems you are in the habit of putting up misquotes. A month before I joined in fact. Never mind. I am here to put your mind to rest.

"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."
-- Moshe Dayan, April 1969, Ha'aretz; quoted in Edward Said, 'Zionism from the Standpoint of Its Victims', Social Text, Volume 1, 1979, 7-58.

THAT IS A MISQUOTE​

We came to a region of land that was inhabited by Arabs, and we set up a Jewish state. In a considerable number of places, we purchased the land from Arabs and set up Jewish villages where there had once been Arab villages. You don't even know the names [of the previous Arab villages] and I don't blame you, because those geography books aren't around anymore. Not only the books, the villages aren't around. Nahalal was established in the place of Mahalul, and Gvat was established in the place of Jibta, Sarid in the place of Huneifis and Kfar Yehoshua in the place of Tel Shaman. There isn't any place that was established in an area where there had not at one time been an Arab settlement.
Dayan's conclusion was that the solution to the Arab-Israeli problem is to learn to coexist with them.
In the misquote, the key phrase "we purchased the land from Arabs" is omitted, and thus Dayan's meaning is reversed. Dayan was not saying that Arabs were dispossessed. On the contrary, he was indicating that though Arabs sold the land of their own free will, given their presence in the region, the Israeli goal is to live peacefully together with them.
Sourced from CAMERA: Zionist Misquote: Moshe Dayan on Dispossessing Arabs in the Land of Israel

"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.

"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!"
-- Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.

This does not relate to the Palestinan population as a whole, but to the Arab population of Lydda and Ramle, two towns on the road from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem where the Jordanian Army (the Arab Legion) had been threatening Tel Aviv during the invasion of 1948. The Jewish commanders were fretting about about leaving "a "hostile and armed populace in our rear, where it could endanger the supply route".
The population was forcibly removed about ten miles, to behind Arab army lines.

"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.

Funny though that Ariel Sharon was in favour of the disengagement of Gaza!​

"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours...Everything we don't grab will go to them."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, Nov. 15, 1998.

Funny though that Ariel Sharon was in favour of the disengagement of Gaza!​

"Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial."
-- Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 25 March, 2001 quoted in BBC News Online

Extra, extra, read all about it.
BBC News | MIDDLE EAST | Clashes mar Mid-East inquiry​

 

[Saigon]

Caroline -

It seems you are in the habit of putting up misquotes.

And yet, of the dozen quotes I posted, you only question the authenticity of one of them - and that seems to be more like slight differences in the translation than any major difference in meaning.

Do you really not think you might be better served to accept that even your own right-wing leaders don't agree with your stand on occupied territory?

What will have to happen before you become open minded enough to listen to the people you voted for?

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

Caroline -

It seems you are in the habit of putting up misquotes.

And yet, of the dozen quotes I posted, you only question the authenticity of one of them - and that seems to be more like slight differences in the translation than any major difference in meaning.

Do you really not think you might be better served to accept that even your own right-wing leaders don't agree with your stand on occupied territory?

What will have to happen before you become open minded enough to listen to the people you voted for?

And what is your stake in all this. Why are you so concerned?
You leave Israel to deal with her own problems. I am sure she can get along fine without your wisdom, or otherwise.

 

[Saigon]

Caroline -

I used to live in Israel, near QS. I visit whenever I can, and have quite a few close friends in Israel.

And you?

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

Caroline -

I used to live in Israel, near QS. I visit whenever I can, and have quite a few close friends in Israel.

And you?

Ok, so you used to live in Israel. Great. I am sure they miss you so very much.

 

[Saigon]

Caroline -

Do you live in Israel? Whereabouts?

 

[toastman]

I've been to Israel about 11 times in my 28 years to visit my family. Last time was summer of 2010. God I love it there. And it's great having family all over, so I always have a place to rest my head !