Zone1 "Nothing creates itself"

[BackAgain]

Not if God has always been. Man, in his imperfect way, tries with his very limited intelligence, to comprehend what God is.

Ok. So if God has “always been” than you’re naming an Entity who exists without having had to have been created.

Back to the same conundrum.

I have lots of reasons which lead me to the conclusion that God is that one Entity who could (and did and does) exist without need of having been created.

The order in our universe (as frequently discovered by our genius scientists and our physics) suggests to me that everything else is the subject of creation by such a Creator.

Lots of perfectly intelligent and reasonable folks disagree with that. And that’s fine by me. I just have enormous difficulty coming to any other conclusion.

 

[Foxfyre]

The logic of…..You can’t explain this so it must be magic escapes me

You're the one who brought up magic. So you don't know why you say what you say? That would explain so much.

 

[Libby von H]

If nothing doesn't always create something and there was a nothing that did then they MUST logically be different.
But if different one of them IS NOT A NOTHING.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Ok. So if God has “always been” than you’re naming an Entity who exists without having had to have been created.

Back to the same conundrum.

I have lots of reasons which lead me to the conclusion that God is that one Entity who could (and did and does) exist without need of having been created.

The order in our universe (as frequently discovered by our genius scientists and our physics) suggests to me that everything else is the subject of creation by such a Creator.

Lots of perfectly intelligent and reasonable folks disagree with that. And that’s fine by me. I just have enormous difficulty coming to any other conclusion.

Again you are thinking in human terms. God is all powerful , has always been and always will be. Sorry that you cant understand this, because of your limited intelligence.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

You're the one who brought up magic. So you don't know why you say what you say? That would explain so much.

Magic is a term used by humans who cant understand what is happening...

 

[Nobody911]

How do you know?

According to the principle of causality, nothing can create itself because that would imply that something exists before it exists, which is logically impossible.

Everything that exists must have a cause or reason for its existence. In other words, everything that begins to exist has a cause external to itself.

From a scientific perspective, the law of conservation of energy states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transferred or transformed. This principle applies to matter as well, meaning that nothing can come into existence without a cause.

Therefore, the idea that something can create itself goes against fundamental principles of logic, physics, and philosophy. It is a concept that is not supported by any empirical evidence or rational argument.

==>God is eternal and uncreated?

The concept of God being eternal and uncreated is a fundamental belief in many religious traditions. According to this belief, God exists outside of time and space and is not bound by the same limitations as the created universe.

Therefore, God does not need a creator because God is seen as the ultimate source of all existence. This idea of an eternal and uncreated God is different from the concept of the universe or energy, which is subject to the laws of cause and effect.

In many religious teachings, God is seen as the first cause or the prime mover that set everything into motion. Ultimately, the question of who or what created God may remain a mystery beyond human understanding.

It is a question that has puzzled theologians, philosophers, and thinkers for centuries, and different religious traditions offer various explanations or interpretations.

Ultimately, faith and personal beliefs play a significant role in how individuals understand the existence of an eternal and uncreated God.

Edit : God and Nirvana( Buddhism )may be the same thing. Because the two are not subject to the laws of cause and effect. In other words, both of them are beyond the realm of cause and effect.

 

[BackAgain]

Again you are thinking in human terms. God is all powerful , has always been and always will be. Sorry that you cant understand this, because of your limited intelligence.

You’re a toad.

The fact that you are too tragically mentally limited to handle this conversation is understood.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

You’re a toad.

The fact that you are too tragically mentally limited to handle this conversation is understood.

Sorry that you have the intelligence of a Joe Biden voter.

 

[BackAgain]

Sorry that you have the intelligence of a Joe Biden voter.

View attachment 935134

Try to keep in mind what zone you’re in.

Try to post on topic.

Try to think.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Try to keep in mind what zone you’re in.

Try to post on topic.

Try to think.

now that is the kettle calling the pot black...

You’re a toad.

The fact that you are too tragically mentally limited to handle this conversation is understood.

 

[BackAgain]

now that is the kettle calling the pot black...

Again. Try to think.

At least one thing or Entity HAS to have existed without first being created.

It’s not really debatable and you don’t seem to grasp that you don’t even disagree.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Again. Try to think.

At least one thing or Entity HAS to have existed without first being created.

It’s not really debatable and you don’t seem to grasp that you don’t even disagree.

Again, you are thinking in human terms. If you were all powerful would you need to create yourself?

 

[BackAgain]

Again, you are thinking in human terms. If you were all powerful would you need to create yourself?

Again, you miss the point. In fact, I had just said it again. At least one thing or Entity must have existed without being created. That Entity is likely to be God.

Are you sure why you’re bothering to “argue?”

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Again, you miss the point. In fact, I had just said it again. At least one thing or Entity must have existed without being created. That Entity is likely to be God.

Are you sure why you’re bothering to “argue?”

So we are agreeing on the intelligent design theory. I concur with your statement.

 

[BackAgain]

So we are agreeing on the intelligent design theory. I concur with your statement.

I’m close.

As I said earlier, it strikes me as more than coincidental that our scientists and physicists can derive so many essential laws of nature without something behind all of that complex math and science.

Accordingly, as I also said before, if either the universe itself is the thing that existed without need of somehow being created OR God is that Entity, I cannot conclude that it was the universe itself. Far too much manifestation of “design” and intelligence undergirding almost all of it.

Now. Again, what part of anything I said led you to feel compelled to disagree with my views?

 

[BreezeWood]

since I don't have time right now to write it all out again.

sure, no need to plead a desert transcript ... not everyone believes in forgeries and fallacies anyway. show your physical evidence and all will be well.

 

[BreezeWood]

No one living or dead I believe has been able to create life from inert substances

that's because physiology has a spiritual content the metaphysical forces were able to incorporate in the new life form to give it its guidance to stay alive and evolve.

that will never occur in a test tube or controlled environment without full knowledge of the forces responsible for life that are not reproducible for that purpose.

 

[Foxfyre]

that's because physiology has a spiritual content the metaphysical forces were able to incorporate in the new life form to give it its guidance to stay alive and evolve.

that will never occur in a test tube or controlled environment without full knowledge of the forces responsible for life that are not reproducible for that purpose.

And you don't know what forces were at work any more than I do or the most brilliant Earth scientists/biologists that have ever lived. Therefore intelligent design is as much a reasonable explanation as any other anybody can come up with whether or not an anti-religionist doesn't want to include it in the possibilities.

 

[BreezeWood]

Which is another argument for why intelligent design should not be barred from the science class.

evolution itself is progressive whether intelligent or not of which are both acceptable for scientific research.

your claim of possible intelligent design made by the organism itself as purposeful is something not taught in classrooms is false - what is not taught is the desert religions version based on superstition from 2k years ago being the same as - yes, the earth is a sphere.

 

[rightwinger]