There Is A Real Problem...

[alang1216]

Sorry, you're wrong again:
Here's How Scarily Accurate NASA's Long-Term Climate Predictions Have Been So Far

EVAN GOUGH, UNIVERSE TODAY
28 MAY 2019
There are a handful of major science institutions around the world that keep track of the Earth's temperature. They all clearly show that the world's temperature has risen in the past few decades. One of those institutions is NASA.

NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Science Studies (GISS) is located in New York City. Recently, they did a complete assessment of their temperature data, called GISTEMP, or GISS surface Temperature Analysis.

The GISTEMP is one of our most direct benchmarks for tracking the Earth's temperature. It goes back over 100 years, to the 1880s.

Every year, NASA partners with the NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration) to update the global temperature. They use temperature data dating back to 1880 from land and sea surface measurements, combined with more modern measurements from over 6,300 weather stations research stations, and ships and weather buoys around the world.

Using all this data, the pair of organizations concluded that 2018 was the fourth-warmest year on record, and that 2016 was the warmest.

In this new study, NASA scientists analyzed the GISTEMP data to see if past predictions of rising temperatures were accurate. They needed to know that any uncertainty within their data was correctly accounted for.

The goal was to make sure that the models they use are robust enough to rely on in the future. The answer: Yes they are. Within 1/20th a degree Celsius. Kudos.​

Sadly, it looks like you are unaware that GISTEMP is literally fraud central. It's projections are only correct in so far as they keep changing and updating the record in order to keep up with their failures. Here...have a look at the blatant fraud committed by those who bring us GISTEMP.

Referring to GISTEMP for temperature trends is analogous to referring to Phillip Morris for data on the safety of cigarettes..

You're right, I am unaware that GISTEMP is literally fraud central. Unfortunately your graphs do not say they came I was unable to confirm their accuracy. I hope they didn't come from that bastion of science, Breitbart:

On 9 July 2017, Breitbart News ran a story written by chart enthusiast James Delingpole, which carried a characteristically provocative and demonstrably false headline:

‘Nearly All’ Recent Global Warming Is Fabricated, Study Finds​

 

[ReinyDays]

But beneath the surface a different story is unfolding. Because of climate change and sea level rise, the ocean is starting to seep into the swampland. If the invasion grows worse, it could drastically change the Everglades, and a way of life for millions of residents in South Florida.

So, are you saying these millions of people pumping ground water up has nothing to do with land subsidence? ... are you saying millions of people's worth of treated sewage doesn't effect the Everglades? ... pavement, landfills, industrial pollutants from millions of people is safe for the swamp lands ... canals, levees, causeways do nothing to the natural water flow through the Everglades ...

Just having millions of people in that area is causing huge environmental damage right now ... a little bit of sea level rise over 100 years is safely ignored ...

Are you really afraid of sea level rise of 3mm per year?

I have children and a dynasty to preserve.

Your new-born infant will be celebrating their grandchild's birth when temperatures rise a single degree ... ocean are less than a foot higher ... murderous glaciers are rare ... Dow Jones will break 100,000 for the first time ... and a 30% chance Seattle has been destroyed ...

 

[alang1216]

Hardly. Most of the damage from a hurricane is from the storm surge. Any rise in sea level will make that surge even more potent. Florida can deal with hurricanes, sea level rise is their existential threat.

Utter nonsense ... this is how easily the Alarmists' "logic" can be turned upside-down ... you've claimed 2 feet extra water is more dangerous than 10 feet extra water ... we expect our 7-year-old children to know that "ten" is more than "two" ... yet here your arguments require the opposite to be true ... and this is the basis of the upcoming "crisis" ... be still my trembling heart ...

"change in ocean circulation" is scary but it does have a basis in fact:

The global conveyor belt is a strong, but easily disrupted process. Research suggests that the conveyor belt may be affected by climate change. If global warming results in increased rainfall in the North Atlantic, and the melting of glaciers and sea ice, the influx of warm freshwater onto the sea surface could block the formation of sea ice, disrupting the sinking of cold, salty water. This sequence of events could slow or even stop the conveyor belt, which could result in potentially drastic temperature changes in Europe.​

The one sentence deserves to be repeated:

Research suggests that the conveyor belt may be affected by climate change.
[emphasis mine]

You, on the other hand, claim this effect is absolutely true in every respect ... a claim your own citation doesn't endorse in any sense of the word "may" ... this is Orwellian New Speak at it's worst ...

I familiar with the research and possible effects ... the Hysterics have taken a glacial lake outburst event as their model ... several cubic miles of water entering the ocean in a few hours, perhaps a day ... and research suggests that ocean currents may have been briefly interrupted ... there's no glacial lakes in existence right now that are large enough to do this ... and there's some conservation of energy issues with melting several cubic miles of ice in a few minutes ... a 2ºC increase in average global temperatures over 100 years won't do this ... freshwater continuously sheens over the top of the ocean, a slight increase does nothing to change the large scale sea surface circulation ... I give you a volume of water 100 miles wide, 100 feet deep and 1,000 miles long moving at 5 mph ... how many atomic bomb's worth of energy does it take to slow this down to 4 mph ...

Your "facts" appear to be idle speculation ... and your sense of "higher" and "lower" seem to be questionable ... and you are not dealing with your joules properly ...

First, I don't recall claiming 2 is more than 10 so I'm guessing you've taken that out of context. Am I correct?

Second, I don't recall claiming anything about climate change is "absolutely true in every respect". Is this too taken out of context?

 

[alang1216]

Are you really afraid of sea level rise of 3mm per year?

I have children and a dynasty to preserve.

A dynasty huh? Delusions of grandeur to go along with your hysterical handwaving over the non existent climate emergency? Ever look up the meaning of dynasty?

If you live in an area of florida which is experiencing problems with the 3mm per year sea level increase, it isn't the rising seas that are the problem...it is the sinking land.

And they say Liberals have no sense of humor.

I don't recall seeing that Florida is sinking, got a link?

 

[alang1216]

But beneath the surface a different story is unfolding. Because of climate change and sea level rise, the ocean is starting to seep into the swampland. If the invasion grows worse, it could drastically change the Everglades, and a way of life for millions of residents in South Florida.

So, are you saying these millions of people pumping ground water up has nothing to do with land subsidence? ... are you saying millions of people's worth of treated sewage doesn't effect the Everglades? ... pavement, landfills, industrial pollutants from millions of people is safe for the swamp lands ... canals, levees, causeways do nothing to the natural water flow through the Everglades ...

Just having millions of people in that area is causing huge environmental damage right now ... a little bit of sea level rise over 100 years is safely ignored ...

Are you really afraid of sea level rise of 3mm per year?

I have children and a dynasty to preserve.

Your new-born infant will be celebrating their grandchild's birth when temperatures rise a single degree ... ocean are less than a foot higher ... murderous glaciers are rare ... Dow Jones will break 100,000 for the first time ... and a 30% chance Seattle has been destroyed ...

I like Seattle but I honestly hope you're right about the rest.

 

[ReinyDays]

Florida can deal with hurricanes, sea level rise is their existential threat.

Florida can handle ten foot surge ... the threat is a two foot sea level rise ... I'm sorry you don't recall posting that, but your guess is incorrect, my comment was in context ...

"change in ocean circulation" is scary but it does have a basis in fact:

Don't recall stating something as a fact? ... or are facts not absolutely true in every respect? ... either way, in context ... seems your memory is at fault here ...

 

[alang1216]

Florida can deal with hurricanes, sea level rise is their existential threat.

Florida can handle ten foot surge ... the threat is a two foot sea level rise ... I'm sorry you don't recall posting that, but your guess is incorrect, my comment was in context ...

"change in ocean circulation" is scary but it does have a basis in fact:

Don't recall stating something as a fact? ... or are facts not absolutely true in every respect? ... either way, in context ... seems your memory is at fault here ...

Thank you for clarifying. What you seemed to have missed is that a ten foot surge is not as dangerous as a ten foot surge ON TOP OF a two foot sea level rise. FYI: 10 < ( 10 + 2 )

As I recall the "change in ocean circulation" was supported by scientific research. You may disagree or fault the research but the research was a fact.

 

[jc456]

My $0.02:

• Climate changes. It always has and always will. In the past, NYC was under 100s of feet of ice. That has changed.
• Glaciers around the world are generally retreating, pointing to a global temperature rise.
• The rising temperatures may be natural or man-made but it doesn't matter, the effects will be the same.
  
• Anything we do to mitigate rising temperatures will have the same success, regardless of the cause.
• If we make reasonable efforts to make the world energy use more efficient and rising temperatures are real, we may mitigate its' worst effects, if rising temperatures are not real, we have made the world a richer place.

what is it you are proposing exactly? Did ice melt on its own in the past? If so, why do you think we cause ice to melt?

And if you believe we cause ice to melt, how?

I can melt ice with my eyes....it's one of my superpowers….it takes a few minutes.

You can turn people to stone just by looking at you too. You might want to get a better hair style pol pot, those snakes on top of your head really look bad.

Hmmm how would you know if the snakes turn people into stone? I’m just saying, that’s not logical

I didn't say they would..

You can turn people to stone just by looking at you too.

you need to reread what you wrote then. what a boob.

 

[kyzr]

PC is a greenie tree hugger?! LOL Who knew??

Harvard-Yale game protest: Harvard and Yale students and alumni stormed football field to protest climate change - CNN

How stupid for the ivy league dweebs to fuck up a perfectly good football game with nonsense.

They would be better for the climate inventing a better energy source, like fusion power. Fusion power - Wikipedia

 

[ReinyDays]

Thank you for clarifying. What you seemed to have missed is that a ten foot surge is not as dangerous as a ten foot surge ON TOP OF a two foot sea level rise. FYI: 10 < ( 10 + 2 )

As I recall the "change in ocean circulation" was supported by scientific research. You may disagree or fault the research but the research was a fact.

Let me further clarify that I specifically said to add three feet to existing sea walls in the area ... FYI: 10 + 3 > 10 + 2 ... which is of trivial cost and time compared to The I-95 that runs through these areas ...

The actual researchers said "suggest" and "may" ... are you saying the authors of this research are stupid? ...

 

[ReinyDays]

How stupid for the ivy league dweebs to fuck up a perfectly good football game with nonsense.

You don't watch very many Ivy League football games do you?

"I've seen 13-year-olds girls play better football than Yale or Harvard." College Football - Wikipedia (but hurry, before the vandalism bot catches that update)

 

[SSDD]

Are you really afraid of sea level rise of 3mm per year?

I have children and a dynasty to preserve.

A dynasty huh? Delusions of grandeur to go along with your hysterical handwaving over the non existent climate emergency? Ever look up the meaning of dynasty?

If you live in an area of florida which is experiencing problems with the 3mm per year sea level increase, it isn't the rising seas that are the problem...it is the sinking land.

And they say Liberals have no sense of humor.

I don't recall seeing that Florida is sinking, got a link?

Here is a place to start....if you are interested, there is plenty of information to be found..very little from climate science itself since to acknowledge that the land is sinking faster than sea level is rising goes against the narrative...

Sinking Atlantic Coastline Meets Rapidly Rising Seas

 

[SSDD]

You're right, I am unaware that GISTEMP is literally fraud central. Unfortunately your graphs do not say they came I was unable to confirm their accuracy. I hope they didn't come from that bastion of science, Breitbart:

And it appears that you prefer to remain unaware that GISTEMP is literally fraud central. It isn't as if it were secret information. And I have never visited Brietbart

​

 

[luchitociencia]

One of us lives in a fantasy world. I'd say it's the one who believes they know more than the scientists who actually study the issue.

The reality:

The Florida Everglades is a swampy wilderness the size of Delaware. In some places along the road in southern Florida, it looks like tall saw grass to the horizon, a prairie punctuated with a few twisted cypress trees. The sky is the palest blue.

But beneath the surface a different story is unfolding. Because of climate change and sea level rise, the ocean is starting to seep into the swampland. If the invasion grows worse, it could drastically change the Everglades, and a way of life for millions of residents in South Florida.​

The point is that you expect the world will maintain its current temperature forever because such is what is convenient for you.

So lets be realistic here.

A wet area where water is present and in direct contact with a source like the ocean, eventually water will soft the ground and erosion will prevail. You just can't avoid it.

In the 70's, in my teens, I heard a lot that for year 2000 the sky will be dark and cloudy, it was that much the freaky environment, that anxiety was the new buddy of many people. I asked my best friend about such a prediction, he lift up his face and looking at the sky he said: "No, that won't happen."

And he was right and tens of certified scientists, all of them were wrong.

20 more years from year 2000 and still doesn't happen, but the alarmist news still are alive and increasing.

Look, too much "cry wolf" around, and no danger is at sight.

The world itself is like a gigantic living creature, every time in history the temperature reached high for several years, volcano activities sent ashes to the sky and the ash became a protecting cover at the top of the atmosphere, and the temperature lowered down.

What about that?

Global Temperature Trends Since 2500 B.C.

 

[SSDD]

One of us lives in a fantasy world. I'd say it's the one who believes they know more than the scientists who actually study the issue.

The reality:

The Florida Everglades is a swampy wilderness the size of Delaware. In some places along the road in southern Florida, it looks like tall saw grass to the horizon, a prairie punctuated with a few twisted cypress trees. The sky is the palest blue.

But beneath the surface a different story is unfolding. Because of climate change and sea level rise, the ocean is starting to seep into the swampland. If the invasion grows worse, it could drastically change the Everglades, and a way of life for millions of residents in South Florida.​

The point is that you expect the world will maintain its current temperature forever because such is what is convenient for you.

So lets be realistic here.

A wet area where water is present and in direct contact with a source like the ocean, eventually water will soft the ground and erosion will prevail. You just can't avoid it.

In the 70's, in my teens, I heard a lot that for year 2000 the sky will be dark and cloudy, it was that much the freaky environment, that anxiety was the new buddy of many people. I asked my best friend about such a prediction, he lift up his face and looking at the sky he said: "No, that won't happen."

And he was right and tens of certified scientists, all of them were wrong.

20 more years from year 2000 and still doesn't happen, but the alarmist news still are alive and increasing.

Look, too much "cry wolf" around, and no danger is at sight.

The world itself is like a gigantic living creature, every time in history the temperature reached high for several years, volcano activities sent ashes to the sky and the ash became a protecting cover at the top of the atmosphere, and the temperature lowered down.

What about that?

Global Temperature Trends Since 2500 B.C.

It seems that some people are natural born hysterical hand wavers, and climate change seems to strike a natural chord with them. No matter how much evidence that the whole scare is smoke and mirrors you give them, they simply won't give it up.

Alang was going on about a glacier in iceland some posts back. He seems to have it in his mind that the glacier melting now is something new and must be our fault. I provided him with a temperature reconstruction derived from what even climate sceince calls the gold standard of temperature reconstructions which clearly showed that it is cooler now than it has been for most of the past 10,000 years. Nothing. Didn't even touch his thoughts on the whole climate change scam.

A new paper was recently published in Quaternary Science Reviews.

Postglacial paleoceanography of the western Barents Sea: Implications for alkenone-based sea surface temperatures and primary productivity - ScienceDirect

The authors found that about 6500 years ago, the Barents Sea, in Iceland's back yard was ice free and 10C warmer than it is today. What do you think his glacier looked like then? My bet is that it wasn't even there but will that have any effect on his climate hysterics? Not a chance. Some people are just wired that way and simply can't imagine any other way to be.

 

[kyzr]

One of us lives in a fantasy world. I'd say it's the one who believes they know more than the scientists who actually study the issue.

The reality:

The Florida Everglades is a swampy wilderness the size of Delaware. In some places along the road in southern Florida, it looks like tall saw grass to the horizon, a prairie punctuated with a few twisted cypress trees. The sky is the palest blue.

But beneath the surface a different story is unfolding. Because of climate change and sea level rise, the ocean is starting to seep into the swampland. If the invasion grows worse, it could drastically change the Everglades, and a way of life for millions of residents in South Florida.​

The point is that you expect the world will maintain its current temperature forever because such is what is convenient for you.

So lets be realistic here.

A wet area where water is present and in direct contact with a source like the ocean, eventually water will soft the ground and erosion will prevail. You just can't avoid it.

In the 70's, in my teens, I heard a lot that for year 2000 the sky will be dark and cloudy, it was that much the freaky environment, that anxiety was the new buddy of many people. I asked my best friend about such a prediction, he lift up his face and looking at the sky he said: "No, that won't happen."

And he was right and tens of certified scientists, all of them were wrong.

20 more years from year 2000 and still doesn't happen, but the alarmist news still are alive and increasing.

Look, too much "cry wolf" around, and no danger is at sight.

The world itself is like a gigantic living creature, every time in history the temperature reached high for several years, volcano activities sent ashes to the sky and the ash became a protecting cover at the top of the atmosphere, and the temperature lowered down.

What about that?

Global Temperature Trends Since 2500 B.C.

Volcanoes spew tremendous amounts of dust into the atmosphere, no wonder they can cool the globe off a few degrees when they erupt.

<This was Mt St Helens in 1980
There are five active volcanoes in Washington State, all located in the Cascade Range. They are: Mount Saint Helens, Mount Adams, Mount Rainier, Glacier Peak, and Mount Baker.
volcanic eruption in washington state - Google Search

 

[alang1216]

One of us lives in a fantasy world. I'd say it's the one who believes they know more than the scientists who actually study the issue.

The reality:

The Florida Everglades is a swampy wilderness the size of Delaware. In some places along the road in southern Florida, it looks like tall saw grass to the horizon, a prairie punctuated with a few twisted cypress trees. The sky is the palest blue.

But beneath the surface a different story is unfolding. Because of climate change and sea level rise, the ocean is starting to seep into the swampland. If the invasion grows worse, it could drastically change the Everglades, and a way of life for millions of residents in South Florida.​

The point is that you expect the world will maintain its current temperature forever because such is what is convenient for you.

So lets be realistic here.

A wet area where water is present and in direct contact with a source like the ocean, eventually water will soft the ground and erosion will prevail. You just can't avoid it.

In the 70's, in my teens, I heard a lot that for year 2000 the sky will be dark and cloudy, it was that much the freaky environment, that anxiety was the new buddy of many people. I asked my best friend about such a prediction, he lift up his face and looking at the sky he said: "No, that won't happen."

And he was right and tens of certified scientists, all of them were wrong.

20 more years from year 2000 and still doesn't happen, but the alarmist news still are alive and increasing.

Look, too much "cry wolf" around, and no danger is at sight.

The world itself is like a gigantic living creature, every time in history the temperature reached high for several years, volcano activities sent ashes to the sky and the ash became a protecting cover at the top of the atmosphere, and the temperature lowered down.

What about that?

Global Temperature Trends Since 2500 B.C.

You have me confused with another poster. I know that climate has always changed and will always be changing. That is how the natural world works. There are many overlapping natural cycles that cause the changes, most are little understood. Has man added a new factor? Probably. Doesn't matter since a natural rise in sea level will have the same effect as a man-made one.

 

[alang1216]

Are you really afraid of sea level rise of 3mm per year?

I have children and a dynasty to preserve.

A dynasty huh? Delusions of grandeur to go along with your hysterical handwaving over the non existent climate emergency? Ever look up the meaning of dynasty?

If you live in an area of florida which is experiencing problems with the 3mm per year sea level increase, it isn't the rising seas that are the problem...it is the sinking land.

And they say Liberals have no sense of humor.

I don't recall seeing that Florida is sinking, got a link?

Here is a place to start....if you are interested, there is plenty of information to be found..very little from climate science itself since to acknowledge that the land is sinking faster than sea level is rising goes against the narrative...

Sinking Atlantic Coastline Meets Rapidly Rising Seas

Here's a quote from your link:

On average, climate change is causing seas to rise globally by more than an inch per decade. That rate is increasing as rising levels of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere trap more heat, melting ice and expanding ocean waters. Seas are projected to rise by several feet this century — perhaps twice that much if the collapse of parts of the Antarctic ice sheet worsens.

Ocean circulation changes linked to global warming and other factors have been causing seas to rise much faster than that along the sinking mid-Atlantic coastline — more than 3.5 inches per decade from 2002 to 2014 north of Cape Hatteras in North Carolina, a recent study showed.
​

Are you cherry-picking the data that supports your position and ignoring data that don't?

 

[alang1216]

One of us lives in a fantasy world. I'd say it's the one who believes they know more than the scientists who actually study the issue.

The reality:

The Florida Everglades is a swampy wilderness the size of Delaware. In some places along the road in southern Florida, it looks like tall saw grass to the horizon, a prairie punctuated with a few twisted cypress trees. The sky is the palest blue.

But beneath the surface a different story is unfolding. Because of climate change and sea level rise, the ocean is starting to seep into the swampland. If the invasion grows worse, it could drastically change the Everglades, and a way of life for millions of residents in South Florida.​

The point is that you expect the world will maintain its current temperature forever because such is what is convenient for you.

So lets be realistic here.

A wet area where water is present and in direct contact with a source like the ocean, eventually water will soft the ground and erosion will prevail. You just can't avoid it.

In the 70's, in my teens, I heard a lot that for year 2000 the sky will be dark and cloudy, it was that much the freaky environment, that anxiety was the new buddy of many people. I asked my best friend about such a prediction, he lift up his face and looking at the sky he said: "No, that won't happen."

And he was right and tens of certified scientists, all of them were wrong.

20 more years from year 2000 and still doesn't happen, but the alarmist news still are alive and increasing.

Look, too much "cry wolf" around, and no danger is at sight.

The world itself is like a gigantic living creature, every time in history the temperature reached high for several years, volcano activities sent ashes to the sky and the ash became a protecting cover at the top of the atmosphere, and the temperature lowered down.

What about that?

Global Temperature Trends Since 2500 B.C.

It seems that some people are natural born hysterical hand wavers, and climate change seems to strike a natural chord with them. No matter how much evidence that the whole scare is smoke and mirrors you give them, they simply won't give it up.

Alang was going on about a glacier in iceland some posts back. He seems to have it in his mind that the glacier melting now is something new and must be our fault. I provided him with a temperature reconstruction derived from what even climate sceince calls the gold standard of temperature reconstructions which clearly showed that it is cooler now than it has been for most of the past 10,000 years. Nothing. Didn't even touch his thoughts on the whole climate change scam.

A new paper was recently published in Quaternary Science Reviews.

Postglacial paleoceanography of the western Barents Sea: Implications for alkenone-based sea surface temperatures and primary productivity - ScienceDirect

The authors found that about 6500 years ago, the Barents Sea, in Iceland's back yard was ice free and 10C warmer than it is today. What do you think his glacier looked like then? My bet is that it wasn't even there but will that have any effect on his climate hysterics? Not a chance. Some people are just wired that way and simply can't imagine any other way to be.

From your link:

The increasing influence of Atlantic Water (AW) in the Barents Sea, a process known as “Atlantification”, is gradually decreasing sea ice cover in the region. Ongoing global climate warming is likely to be one of its drivers​

As I understand it, there are multiple natural climate cycles of varying time frames. I don't ignore that, what worries me is that man has added new influences, CO2, CH4, deforestation, etc. There are studies that show there is a coming calamity and studies that show it just smoke and mirrors. What is undisputed is that the majority of climate scientists believe there is a crisis looming. I'm not a tin-hat type so I have trouble believing there is some conspiracy knowingly or unknowingly perpetuated by the scientific community. On the other side, I see the deniers as starting from an religious or ideological mindset and viewing the data from that perspective.

Anyone who tells me they know how these climatic influences will play out in the future is suspect but, since the threat may be an existential one, it shouldn't be ignored.

 

[ReinyDays]

Volcanoes spew tremendous amounts of dust into the atmosphere, no wonder they can cool the globe off a few degrees when they erupt.

View attachment 291718 <This was Mt St Helens in 1980
There are five active volcanoes in Washington State, all located in the Cascade Range. They are: Mount Saint Helens, Mount Adams, Mount Rainier, Glacier Peak, and Mount Baker.
volcanic eruption in washington state - Google Search

Who cares about Canada-wanna-be ... Mt Hood, Mt Jefferson, Three Sisters, Mt Mazama ... [sniff] ... better volcanoes ...