Theodore Roosevelt's Remarks on Being an American

[Bern80]

Roosevelt was/is partially right. I can't speak to how colonials identified themselves when they first arrived, but todays immigrants don't characterize themselves as Americans. They characterize themselves as whatever country they came from and simply live in this one. People come here for many reason. To escape persecution, better jobs, etc. But they don't come here to be Americans anymore.

 

[AllieBaba]

We've lost the whole feel of being Americans with a common purpose and a common drive.

Instead we've been fractured into subgroups, which are set against each other. There are the poor, the minorities (whatever racial minority...be it black, hispanic, middle eastern, asian, whatever), and the different religions. In this country, the media has labeled the Christian religion as "bad" and all other religions as valuable and diverse.

It's a mess, and it comes about because there's way too much emphasis on victimization and difference.

 

[Bern80]

We've lost the whole feel of being Americans with a common purpose and a common drive.

Instead we've been fractured into subgroups, which are set against each other. There are the poor, the minorities (whatever racial minority...be it black, hispanic, middle eastern, asian, whatever), and the different religions. In this country, the media has labeled the Christian religion as "bad" and all other religions as valuable and diverse.

It's a mess, and it comes about because there's way too much emphasis on victimization and difference.

Not much to add, except the left certainly doesn't help the whole victimization thing. What was that famous quote by JFK again? And why don't today's dems espouse that?

 

[Adam's Apple]

Yea I'm STAGGERED by the crazy unamerican shenanigans every St. Patricks day... QUOTE]


We have problems with the Irish, Italians, Chinese, blacks not pledging allegiance to America as citizens, integrating into American society, not learning the language, not showing respect for the flag???? News to me. The examples you cited were Americans celebrating their heritage with fellow Americans.

Hell, most locations in the Southwest ARE the original product of some variation of latino culture.

Sure, we paid tribute to the original inhabitants throughout the Southwest by the names given our cities. Next I guess you will tell me that we stole the land from the Latinos. The best I remember the story is that we won the land fair and square in a war.

 

[William Joyce]

When did this happen? I have not heard of people calling themselves German-Americans, French-Americans, Irish-Americans, etc. But I do see the problem Roosevelt warned about occurring in America today, with the Latinos, Muslims, etc. not being interested in integrating into the American culture. Is that what you had in mind?

Yes.

In my view, there is a big difference between Anglo-European immigration and non-white immigration. Differences between Italians, Germans, Irish and Scottish can be ironed out and the resulting "white American mix" held together, not perfectly, but workably. The underlying reason for this is the genetic similarities between European-derived people.

It was what we had, and it was strong enough to hold together even with a former black slave population, and even THAT seemed to survive at least the early stages of "civil rights."

But add millions and millions of Hispanic, Asian, Arab/Muslim and other groups, non-English speakers by the truckload, hostile religions like Islam, etc. etc., and shit really starts to get messy.

It boils down to this: A little diversity is a tonic. Too much is a poison. We now have the latter.

 

[Shogun]

WE paid tribute by naming San Francisco, eh?




Good one!

uh, you do realize that San Fran was a spanish settlement BEFORE california was a state, right?


As to your ignorance regarding the first generation of Irish, Italian and German immigrants feel free to discover how the same concern you throw at mexicans were tossed their way too. If you think First generation Germans acclimated to Engrish upon landing in North America then you must have never been to any GERMAN towns in Mid America. We STILL have a giant Oktoberfest celebrations in our GERMAN towns in my state. Much like the Irish have their fun in March.


Also, winning a war with Mexico probably doesn't erase the historic latino cultural influence in a town named SAN FRANCISCO either but railing against mexicans and muslims is fashionable these days so have at it.

 

[AllieBaba]

Happy grandma to 8 lb. 8 oz Hispanic baby girl....

 

[trobinett]

WE paid tribute by naming San Francisco, eh?




Good one!

uh, you do realize that San Fran was a spanish settlement BEFORE california was a state, right?

NO, should we pay tribute?

As to your ignorance regarding the first generation of Irish, Italian and German immigrants feel free to discover how the same concern you throw at mexicans were tossed their way too. If you think First generation Germans acclimated to Engrish upon landing in North America then you must have never been to any GERMAN towns in Mid America. We STILL have a giant Oktoberfest celebrations in our GERMAN towns in my state. Much like the Irish have their fun in March.

The "ignorance" shot again, you loose ALL credence, and most likely all support with statements like the above.

Also, winning a war with Mexico probably doesn't erase the historic latino cultural influence in a town named SAN FRANCISCO either but railing against mexicans and muslims is fashionable these days so have at it.

On this your probably right, winning any war againts Mexico doesn't influence any thing, or any one, good point.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Yea I'm STAGGERED by the crazy unamerican shenanigans every St. Patricks day... QUOTE]



We have problems with the Irish, Italians, Chinese, blacks not pledging allegiance to America as citizens, integrating into American society, not learning the language, not showing respect for the flag???? News to me. The examples you cited were Americans celebrating their heritage with fellow Americans.



Sure, we paid tribute to the original inhabitants throughout the Southwest by the names given our cities. Next I guess you will tell me that we stole the land from the Latinos. The best I remember the story is that we won the land fair and square in a war.

We also PAID Mexico for it when we refused to return it.

 

[Lookout]

Believe what you will sir, this country continues to be torn apart by those that don't want to be American. But, look to be African American, Mexican American, put any tag you want on it, but its just another way to divide and remove what use to be the heart, and the glue, that made America what it once was.

Diversity is a word for those that wish to divide.

Diversity is a word, AND an action, that puts barricades between ethnic groups, that would otherwise live in harmony.

Congratulations............

The abolishment of "duel Citizenship" in this country is absolutely necessary if we truly want to avoid and do away with racism and ethnic divisions. I mean c-mon, I know a black man comes from a different country but him stating he is African-American is a slap in the face to this country every time it is said. This is America. If you come here legally and stay here longer than 3 months you are an American. Isn't it written somewhere that duel citizenship is illegal?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You are aware black men and women have been in this country just about as long as white men and women?

 

[Adam's Apple]

WE paid tribute by naming San Francisco, eh?

Good one! uh, you do realize that San Fran was a spanish settlement BEFORE california was a state, right?

I was not talking about San Francisco specifically. You are the one who brought up that name. My reference was to all the cities and towns in the southwest which bear Spanish names.

If you think First generation Germans acclimated to Engrish upon landing in North America then you must have never been to any GERMAN towns in Mid America.

Since I am an American of German ancestry, with both mother and father being of German stock, you tell me how difficult it was for Germans to acclimate to American culture. They WANTED to do it and were proud to be Americans. My ancestry never once referred to themselves as German-Americans.

We STILL have a giant Oktoberfest celebration in our GERMAN towns in my state.

I attend Octoberfest celebrations every year, and I can assure you that these celebrations are in no way intended to weaken the American culture. Octoberfest is attended not only by people of German ancestry but by everyone in the community. It is just one of many festivals celebrating the diversity which has made American what it is. This diversity, incidentally, is of the “melting pot” kind, not the kind where immigrants retain their own culture and live in enclaves on American soil.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Shogun
Why do you think San Fransisco wasn't named Saint Francis? Hell, most locations in the Southwest ARE the original product of some variation of latino culture.

Originally posted by Shogun
WE paid tribute by naming San Francisco, eh?

Good one!

uh, you do realize that San Fran was a spanish settlement BEFORE california was a state, right?

HEY BUDDY!

DON'T FORGET SAN JOSE!!!!

 

[William Joyce]

I hate to have to do this, but Spain is a European country and the missionaries were white. And "Latin" as a root for "Latino" is not so affirming for the color set, either, since the Roman Empire was started by whites.

 

[José]

Latin America shares with Spain and Portugal the same languages, religion, social and political structures, folklore etc etc. as well as a fair amount of genes.

As for the race mixing...

Well, I guess all those white spanish and portuguese settlers were just following:

"The natural tendency all races have to isolate themselves from other ethnic groups"

(William Joyce, all rights reserved)

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Latin America shares with Spain and Portugal the same languages, religion, social and political structures, folklore etc etc. as well as a fair amount of genes.

As for the race mixing...

Well, I guess all those white spanish and portuguese settlers were just following:

"The natural tendency all races have to isolate themselves from other ethnic groups"

(William Joyce, all rights reserved)

Hey Joe, why is it a Mexican would rather be called a Castizo rather than a Cholo?

 

[William Joyce]

Well, I guess all those white spanish and portuguese settlers were just following:

"The natural tendency all races have to isolate themselves from other ethnic groups"

(William Joyce, all rights reserved)

Or rape the Indian girls because they could get away with it. I don't know how much love and mutual cultural respect was going on there. I think it was more a matter of one group dominating another.

 

[José]

Originally posted by William Joyce
Or rape the Indian girls because they could get away with it. I don't know how much love and mutual cultural respect was going on there. I think it was more a matter of one group dominating another.

Joyce...

Check out my reply to ScreamingEagle.

I think you're gonna find it surprisingly conciliatory and understanding towards some of your ideas.

And I'm not trying to garner any sympathy from you.

I truly believe what I'm about to say.

 

[José]

Originally posted by ScreamingEagle
Hey Joe, why is it a Mexican would rather be called a Castizo rather than a Cholo?

LOL…

I’m fully aware there is racial prejudice in Mexico too, eagle.

Joyce is half right.

There is a human tendency for racial separation otherwise there wouldn’t be separate ethnic groups in the Americas anymore.

But there is also a human tendency for miscegenation and this is exactly one of the main reasons white supremacists preach racial segregation.

They know full well this tendency represents a threat to the survival of their race even if they don’t want to admit this natural human tendency towards race mixing.

As far as I’m concerned I have to be honest with myself and recognize the fact that racial prejudice like all other forms of prejudice is absolutely human.

Every single day, all over the world, we discriminate each other for a myriad of reasons:

For having lighter / darker skin tone, for being too fat / too thin, too short / too tall, too ugly / too beautiful, too rich / too poor, too bright / too dumb etc, etc…

Humans are obsessed with racial discrimination but it seems pretty obvious to me that it is just one of the many manifestations of this absolutely human feeling called prejudice.

I believe we should all do our best to avoid hurting people with our prejudices but on the other hand, I’m not overly excited with the prospect of crucifying a fellow human being for a feeling that I may very well find within myself.

My personal prediction is that these two contradictory human tendencies (racial prejudice/segregation and miscegenation) will continue to battle against each other for millennia, if not for all eternity.

 

[José]

Eagle

I followed your debate with Shogun on the annexation of what was, at the time, northern Mexico.

I already expressed my opinion that the annexation in no way detracts from the democratic nature of the US.

I’m gonna reproduce what I said here in case you missed it:

Where is the continued history of mexican armed resistance from the 19th century to this day against the annexation of Texas and California?

There is none, the mexican people accepted the loss of the territories and with no displaced mexicans reivindicating anything, the country as a whole just moved on.

How many TEJANO refugees are living in makeshift tents in Guadalajara claiming their right to return to Texas after having fled the region fearing the clashes between Anglo settlers and Santa Anna?

How many CALIFORNIOS inhabit Mexico City after being denied their right to return to southern california when the state was annexed?

They were all absorbed by America and enjoy full democratic rights as american citizens.

When a mexican citizen is denied entry into America, the country is exercising the sovereign right of every democratic nation.

Border Patrol’s counteroffensive riles México

We can debate till kingdom come whether the annexation of more than half of Mexico’s territory was the result of aggressive american expansionism at the expense of a weaker nation or won in a fair and square war.

But the one thing I will never do is use the annexation of mexican territory as an excuse to justify illegal hispanic immigration.

I try to separate my ethnic background from my political analysis of the US.

The day I’m not able to judge the US by the same standards I judge every other nation on Earth will be the day I will leave this board never to return.