Theodore Roosevelt's Remarks on Being an American

[RetiredGySgt]

Umm Portugal and Spain do NOT speak the same language. And in fact only Brazil really has a portugese history.

 

[José]

Originally posted by RetiredGySgt
Umm Portugal and Spain do NOT speak the same language. And in fact only Brazil really has a portugese history

LOL

Sergeant is a riot...

When he doesn't find anything to disagree in your post, he makes something up

I said "Latin America shares with Spain and Portugal the same LANGUAGES" plural meaning Spanish AND Portuguese not LANGUAGE, singular meaning just ONE language.

I should know, I speak both languages fluently.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

LOL

Sergeant is a riot...

When he doesn't find anything to disagree in your post, he makes something up

I said "Latin America shares with Spain and Portugal the same LANGUAGES" plural meaning Spanish AND Portuguese not LANGUAGE, singular meaning just ONE language.

I should know, I speak both languages fluently.

Once again Latin America is almost totally Spanish, Portugal was cut out of the New World early on and only had holdings along the coast of Brazil. I doubt if you told a native of Portugal he was just Like a Spaniard he would appreciate your sentiment.

 

[William Joyce]

My personal prediction is that these two contradictory human tendencies (racial prejudice/segregation and miscegenation) will continue to battle against each other for millennia, if not for all eternity.

Well, holy frijoles... I can agree with this.

I would point out to liberals that much of what they think is the WORST white sinning, like slavery, for instance, wouldn't happen under some conceptions of racial separation. After all, slavery is a pretty bold example, if you will, of "race mixing". William Pierce, excoriated as a "neo-Nazi" for years by the press, looked down on the habit of whites in America relying on Hispanics and Asians to do all their yardwork and laundry. Which oddly corresponds with some white liberal views.

Many will think it strange, but ultimately I think that some measure of racial separation is more respectful of human beings and their differences than all the forced and unwanted mixing we have now.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Where is the continued history of mexican armed resistance from the 19th century to this day against the annexation of Texas and California?

Mexican resistance today comes partly in the form of anti-American groups like MEChA, The Brown Berets de Aztlan, OLA (Organization for the Liberation of Aztlan), La Raza Unida Party, and the "Nation of Aztlan" and other "Raza" groups since their goal is to take back "Aztlan" which includes Colorado, California, Arizona, Texas, Utah, New Mexico, Oregon, and parts of Washington.

These groups are active at almost all the universities and colleges throughout the Southwest and they have socialist and communist leanings…part and parcel of the Leftist "multiculturalism" method for breaking down existing American culture and attacking America from within.

http://www.mayorno.com/WhoIsMecha.html

 

[tigerbob]

The quote he cited is NOT about preventing people from coming to America, it ia about ensuring those that come learn they are Americans NOT XXX- Americans.

When I move to America, I'll continue to be English. That may appear to be divisive, but it isn't meant to be. I know the language, I don't intend to break the law, and I'll pay my taxes and I'll try to add something to society. But it appears that in the eyes of Teddy Roosevelt and many others I should only be allowed in if I become a naturalised US citizen. I understand that sentiment, but I can't agree with it.

On the other hand, if I ever did become American, I'd be American not English-American.

 

[tigerbob]

Really? These days we may not TRUST latinos and Muslims to put America before their other aliegences and common denominators but the same was said about the Germans, French and everyone else at some point during the course of our national history.

Great point. What was the major charge levelled at John Adams in both his Presidential campaigns? That he was essentially a monarchist and too close to the English. The reason for this? He spent many years in London as the first US Ambassador. In fact, he was anything but an anglophile, but the charge alone was enough to lose him a second term.

 

[Foxfyre]

When I move to America, I'll continue to be English. That may appear to be divisive, but it isn't meant to be. I know the language, I don't intend to break the law, and I'll pay my taxes and I'll try to add something to society. But it appears that in the eyes of Teddy Roosevelt and many others I should only be allowed in if I become a naturalised US citizen. I understand that sentiment, but I can't agree with it.

On the other hand, if I ever did become American, I'd be American not English-American.

I can appreciate what you're saying so long as we have a green card policy by which we can legally import necessary talent without having to Americanize it. I have nothing but respect for people who have pride in their own country/heritage/culture and wish that kind of healthy pride and appreciation for everybody on Earth.

However, should you choose to come to America with the intent of retaining all the British ways including trying to get permission to drive on the left side of the road, changing the government to a parliamentary system, and requiring everybody to accommodate an exaggerated cockney accent whether or not it was understandable to most, then we could have a problem.

For the history of this country, immigrants have come to merge their heritage and culture into this one which has created a uniquely American culture blessed by the seamless integration of many.

Multiculturalists do not wish to seamlessly integrate anything. They want the whole to accommodate and assist them in whatever 'foreign' or 'anti-social' or 'nonproductive' sense in which they choose to have it. The whole is expected to accommodate their culture and language in all ways, accommodate their special needs for religious practices, accommodate whatever deficiencies they bring with them. And therefore they import intact all the problems they left behind when they came to this country.

Teddy Roosevelt was 100% right that those who come to benefit from America by making their home here should expect to become Americans and respect all the important ways that being American means. Otherwise, they should stay where they are.

 

[tigerbob]

A country is made up of citizens who pledge their allegiance to that country, respect the flag, and make every effort to assimilate into that country’s culture, including learning and speaking the language. Why do you think we have a Pledge of Allegiance? Or do you scoff at that too?

Surely there are people in the US that add to the financial and intellectual wealth of the country without taking the pledge?

Surely there are people who have taken the pledge who detract from the image of America as an open, welcoming and generally friendly place to live?

By the way, I generally agree with your other points.

 

[José]

Originally posted by ScreamingEagle
Mexican resistance today comes partly in the form of anti-American groups like MEChA, The Brown Berets de Aztlan, OLA (Organization for the Liberation of Aztlan), La Raza Unida Party, and the "Nation of Aztlan" and other "Raza" groups since their goal is to take back "Aztlan" which includes Colorado, California, Arizona, Texas, Utah, New Mexico, Oregon, and parts of Washington.

These groups are active at almost all the universities and colleges throughout the Southwest and they have socialist and communist leanings…part and parcel of the Leftist "multiculturalism" method for breaking down existing American culture and attacking America from within.

Pressure groups created during the last two or three decades do not qualify as “continued history of mexican armed resistance from the 19th century to this day against the annexation of Texas and Califórnia”.

Any mexican claim over the american southwest and/or accusations of white supremacism in the US are illegitimate for two basic reasons:

1) – Absence of a continued mexican territorial claim dating back to the 19th century and materialised in the form of armed, or at least, political resistance.

2) – Absence of a native mexican population displaced from the regions annexed by the US and reivindicating their right to return to their historical homelands.

But we all know that it is demographics not José’s political theories what will eventually determine the future of the american southwest.

I’m fully aware that all the advocacy groups cited by SE are fringe organizations.

But as an impartial observer I have an advice for the american people:

From the point of view of american nationalism, it would be wise to reduce the flow of illegal hispanic immigration to a trickle, just to be on the safe side.

 

[tigerbob]

Take for example a British 14 yr. old schoolgirl who was arrested on suspicion of committing a racial offense after refusing to sit with a group of South Asian students because some of them did not speak English. She was taken to the police station, had her fingerprints taken and was thrown into a cell before being released.

This is the same place where a a ten-year-old boy was hauled before a court for allegedly calling an 11-year-old mixed race pupil a 'Paki' and 'Bin Laden' in a playground argument at a primary school in Irlam.

Talk about propaganda PC in the schools….hell, they have already become "re-education camps" in some places.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=410150&in_page_id=1770

Just because that's what it says in the Daily Mail doesn't make it necessarily true.

 

[tigerbob]

However, should you choose to come to America with the intent of retaining all the British ways including trying to get permission to drive on the left side of the road, changing the government to a parliamentary system, and requiring everybody to accommodate an exaggerated cockney accent whether or not it was understandable to most, then we could have a problem.

That's precisely why I'm moving. I plan to ingratiate myself by disarmingly using expressions like "dear boy" and "old chap" and having them become some kind of quasi ghetto-slang. Ghetto slang takes about 3 years before it shows up in a Hollywood blockbuster. Soon after that, teenagers will start using it in their everyday conversations and their parents, eager to look 'hip' and 'with it' will start using it soon after that.

From that point on, it's a small step to singing God Save The Queen during the 7th inning stretch.

You'll be driving on the left before you know it.

 

[Foxfyre]

That's precisely why I'm moving. I plan to ingratiate myself by disarmingly using expressions like "dear boy" and "old chap" and having them become some kind of quasi ghetto-slang. Ghetto slang takes about 3 years before it shows up in a Hollywood blockbuster. Soon after that, teenagers will start using it in their everyday conversations and their parents, eager to look 'hip' and 'with it' will start using it soon after that.

From that point on, it's a small step to singing God Save The Queen during the 7th inning stretch.

You'll be driving on the left before you know it.

Well I rather like hearing "dear boy" and "old chap" and think that is one of the more engaging and endearing traditions of the Brits, so no worries there. "God save the Queen" might get you a few strange looks at the ballgame, especially if you are in a different key than the organist plays for "Take Me Out to the Ballgame". We already have people over here driving on the left side of the road, but it does make a frightful mess during rush hour.

I do adore Beef Wellington and Yorkshire pudding, however, and have enjoyed the custom of afternoon tea with other Brit friends. I think you can safely bring along a lot of British customs without screwing up the works here. Just don't mess with our Sunday cartoons or the Dallas Cowboys.

 

[trobinett]

When I move to America, I'll continue to be English.

We DON'T take your birthday away bob.

That may appear to be divisive, but it isn't meant to be. I know the language, I don't intend to break the law, and I'll pay my taxes and I'll try to add something to society.

That's all well, and good bob, but why move?

But it appears that in the eyes of Teddy Roosevelt and many others I should only be allowed in if I become a naturalised US citizen. I understand that sentiment, but I can't agree with it.

What's the problem bob?

Sentiment is what its all about my good man, if you don't agree, then stay where your are.

On the other hand, if I ever did become American, I'd be American not English-American.

My respects, though you do seem a bit confused.

 

[tigerbob]

We DON'T take your birthday away bob.

I never thought you did, but thanks for clarifying.

That's all well, and good bob, but why move?

I made a promise that I'd move to the US under a certain set of circumstances. If I told you more I'd have to go into personal detail, which I don't like to do on a messageboard. If it helps, my wife is American.

What's the problem bob?

Sentiment is what its all about my good man, if you don't agree, then stay where your are.

Actually it's about the law more than sentiment, my dear fellow. If I'm there legally, pay my taxes and don't break the law, what's the problem?

My respects, though you do seem a bit confused.

Not sure what you think I'm confused about. Can you explain?

 

[Foxfyre]

Actually it's about the law more than sentiment, my dear fellow. If I'm there legally, pay my taxes and don't break the law, what's the problem?

I'm going to take that as a rhetorical question since you seem to be the type person most Americans would be proud to have amongst us.

Rhetorically, the problem is that it isn't enough to obey the law and pay taxes. America is unique in many ways with a spirit, value system, and mores arising out of largely shared values and outlook on life in general. If you have groups of people who do not see themselves as part of that, but who re-create here the very societies with all the problems that prompted them to leave wherever they were and come here, we are all diminished, and could lose what makes America special and makes it a place where billions of people would choose to live if they could.

I think that specialness is worth preserving. And that is why I oppose multi-culturalism because it is anathema to both cohesiveness and shared values and slowly erodes our best strengths and virtues.

 

[tigerbob]

I'm going to take that as a rhetorical question since you seem to be the type person most Americans would be proud to have amongst us.

Rhetorically, the problem is that it isn't enough to obey the law and pay taxes. America is unique in many ways with a spirit, value system, and mores arising out of largely shared values and outlook on life in general. If you have groups of people who do not see themselves as part of that, but who re-create here the very societies with all the problems that prompted them to leave wherever they were and come here, we are all diminished, and could lose what makes America special and makes it a place where billions of people would choose to live if they could.

I think that specialness is worth preserving. And that is why I oppose multi-culturalism because it is anathema to both cohesiveness and shared values and slowly erodes our best strengths and virtues.

I think I'd largely agree with that. It was a point I tried to make earlier (though trobinett found it confusing) about if I had to become a US citizen to live in the US, then I would view myself as being American not English-American. Although now I think about it, there is potentially a difference btween accepting US citizenship willingly and having to take US citizenship in order to live there. So maybe I am a bit unsure how I would feel. Maybe trobinett is right!

I've seen America described as a melting pot on these and other boards. I'm not sure that that's right. A 'mixed salad' might be more appropriate. Certainly for it to be a melting pot those who become naturalised or have ethnic backgrounds that are outside the mainstream need to view themselves as Americans first, and XXX-Americans a distant second. At the same time however, American mainstream society has to be willing to accept that there will inevitably be cultural differences to a degree.

It doesn't seem to be a problem with Irish-Americans, for example, because there are no major differences between the 2 countries, either in real terms (political, ideological, socio-economic) or in largely perceived (religious, ethnic) terms. On the other hand, when I once went to the St Patrick's Day parade in Chicago, the biggest cheer of the day was for the Sinn Fein float, which I found rather saddening. I had grown up believing that SInn Fein, as the political wing of the IRA, had a lot more to do with the murder of innocent people than was ever made clear to Americans, and that this was largely because there was so much Sinn Fein fundraising done in certain American cities, and much of this funding was used to buy arms, ammunition and explosives. Clearly, differences in political perception do play a role.

Another example is Kwanzaa. This is a non-religious celebration of African heritage, but because it happens around Christmas and people send 'Happy Kwanzaa' cards to each other, some people (incuding some on these boards) see it as an ethnic group getting state funding (or state recognition) of something quasi-religious when Christian traditions are pushed to the side for disestablishmentarianism reasons. Both groups end up feeling persecuted, and mistrust and lawsuits inevitably follow.

Until issues like these can be discussed openly, reasonably and without either side having an all-or-nothing mentality, America, like most Western democracies, will never be a 'melting pot'.

 

[Dr Grump]

Basically, America is turning into everything it claimed to be but it is not. It is intolerant, it is exclusive, it is no longer trusted, it is debt ridden, it is no longer the panacea of the developed world.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Foxfyre
and could lose what makes America special and makes it a place where billions of people would choose to live if they could.

What makes millions of people want to live in America is the idealised image America projects on the minds of many people around the world.

The idea of a place where everybody looks like Hollywood actors where you can make a living and climb the social ladder with ease.

Fievel, an american tail, the story of a family of russian rats who immigrated to America portrays this phantasised image of America perfectly:

But there are no cats in America
And the streets are paved with cheese
Oh there are no cats in America
So set your mind at ease

As for the idealised image of the american people Hollywood projects, the best way to preserve it is to keep a safe distance from the US.

I've never seen so many fat people walking down the streets at once together!!



That was the single biggest letdown of my entire adult life!!!!

 

[tigerbob]

What makes millions of people want to live in America is the idealised image America projects on the minds of many people around the world.

The idea of a place where everybody looks like Hollywood actors where you can make a living and climb the social ladder with ease.

Fievel, an american tail, the story of a family of russian rats who immigrated to America portrays this phantasised image of America perfectly:

But there are no cats in America
And the streets are paved with cheese
Oh there are no cats in America
So set your mind at ease

As for the idealised image of the american people Hollywood projects, the best way to preserve it is to keep a safe distance from the US.

I've never seen so many fat people walking down the streets at once together!!



That was the single biggest letdown of my entire adult life!!!!

In the movie Dogma, Jay and Silent Bob come to Illinois to visit the town of Shermer. The reason for ths is that they have seen in John Hughes' films that, in Shermer, all the honeys are "top shelf" and the guys are "whiney pussies".

Imagine their disappointment when they found out that Shermer is fictional. What a couple of dorks, confusing phantasy (sic) with reality.