Theodore Roosevelt's Remarks on Being an American

I was not talking about San Francisco specifically. You are the one who brought up that name. My reference was to all the cities and towns in the southwest which bear Spanish names.

Since I am an American of German ancestry, with both mother and father being of German stock, you tell me how difficult it was for Germans to acclimate to American culture. They WANTED to do it and were proud to be Americans. My ancestry never once referred to themselves as German-Americans.

I attend Octoberfest celebrations every year, and I can assure you that these celebrations are in no way intended to weaken the American culture. Octoberfest is attended not only by people of German ancestry but by everyone in the community. It is just one of many festivals celebrating the diversity which has made American what it is. This diversity, incidentally, is of the “melting pot” kind, not the kind where immigrants retain their own culture and live in enclaves on American soil.



*sigh*

WHY do you people post shit that is easily proven wrong? For real, is it THAT HARD to consider the evidence before saying dumb shit?



Assimilation and World War I anti-German sentiment


After two or three generations, German Americans adopted mainstream American customs—some of which they heavily influenced—and switched their language to English. As one scholar concludes, "The overwhelming evidence ... indicates that the German-American school was a bilingual one much (perhaps a whole generation or more) earlier than 1917, and that the majority of the pupils may have been English-dominant bilinguals from the early 1880s on."[32] By 1914 the older members were attending German language church services while the younger members were attending English services (in Lutheran, Evangelical and Catholic churches). In German parochial schools the children spoke English among themselves, though some of their classes were in German. In 1917–18, nearly all German language instruction ended, as did most German language church services.

During World War I, German Americans, especially those born abroad, were sometimes accused of being too sympathetic to the German Empire. Theodore Roosevelt denounced "hyphenated Americanism" and insisted that dual loyalties were impossible in wartime. A small minority came out for Germany, including H. L. Mencken, who believed the German democratic system was superior to American democracy. Likewise Harvard psychology professor Hugo Münsterberg dropped his efforts to mediate between America and Germany and threw his efforts behind the German cause.[33]

Several thousand vocal opponents of the war were imprisoned.[34] Thousands were forced to buy war bonds to show their loyalty. The Red Cross barred individuals with German last names from joining in fear of sabotage. One man was hanged in Illinois, apparently for no other reason than that he appeared to be of German descent. The killers were found innocent of the crime and the hanging was called an act of patriotism by a jury. A Minnesota minister was tarred and feathered when he was overheard praying in German with a dying woman.[35] Some Germans during this time "Americanized" their names (e.g. Schmidt to Smith, Müller to Miller, Rickenbacher to Rickenbacker, Eisenhauer to Eisenhower) and limited their use of the German language in public places. Similarly, foods with German names such as sauerkraut and bratwurst were renamed "liberty cabbage" and "liberty sausage". In Chicago Frederick Stock temporarily stepped down as conductor of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra until he finalized his naturalization papers. Berlioz replaced Wagner on programs. In Cincinnati, reaction to anti-German sentiment during World War I caused the Public Library of Cincinnati to withdraw all German books from its shelves.[36] German-named streets were renamed. For example, in Indianapolis, a street named Germania Avenue was renamed Pershing Ave.—for a World War I general of German descent. Nebraska banned instruction in any language except English, but the U.S. Supreme Court ruled the ban illegal in 1923 (Meyer v. Nebraska), by which time the nativist mood had largely subsided. In Iowa, the Babel Proclamation made speaking foreign languages in public illegal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German-American


Nope.. NO similar patterns between the Germans then and the Mexicans now!

NOPE!


Thank god we've got all this German progeny running around fully aware of the history of their people in this Salad Bowl American culture!
 
*sigh*

WHY do you people post shit that is easily proven wrong? For real, is it THAT HARD to consider the evidence before saying dumb shit?



Assimilation and World War I anti-German sentiment


After two or three generations, German Americans adopted mainstream American customs—some of which they heavily influenced—and switched their language to English. As one scholar concludes, "The overwhelming evidence ... indicates that the German-American school was a bilingual one much (perhaps a whole generation or more) earlier than 1917, and that the majority of the pupils may have been English-dominant bilinguals from the early 1880s on."[32] By 1914 the older members were attending German language church services while the younger members were attending English services (in Lutheran, Evangelical and Catholic churches). In German parochial schools the children spoke English among themselves, though some of their classes were in German. In 1917–18, nearly all German language instruction ended, as did most German language church services.

During World War I, German Americans, especially those born abroad, were sometimes accused of being too sympathetic to the German Empire. Theodore Roosevelt denounced "hyphenated Americanism" and insisted that dual loyalties were impossible in wartime. A small minority came out for Germany, including H. L. Mencken, who believed the German democratic system was superior to American democracy. Likewise Harvard psychology professor Hugo Münsterberg dropped his efforts to mediate between America and Germany and threw his efforts behind the German cause.[33]

Several thousand vocal opponents of the war were imprisoned.[34] Thousands were forced to buy war bonds to show their loyalty. The Red Cross barred individuals with German last names from joining in fear of sabotage. One man was hanged in Illinois, apparently for no other reason than that he appeared to be of German descent. The killers were found innocent of the crime and the hanging was called an act of patriotism by a jury. A Minnesota minister was tarred and feathered when he was overheard praying in German with a dying woman.[35] Some Germans during this time "Americanized" their names (e.g. Schmidt to Smith, Müller to Miller, Rickenbacher to Rickenbacker, Eisenhauer to Eisenhower) and limited their use of the German language in public places. Similarly, foods with German names such as sauerkraut and bratwurst were renamed "liberty cabbage" and "liberty sausage". In Chicago Frederick Stock temporarily stepped down as conductor of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra until he finalized his naturalization papers. Berlioz replaced Wagner on programs. In Cincinnati, reaction to anti-German sentiment during World War I caused the Public Library of Cincinnati to withdraw all German books from its shelves.[36] German-named streets were renamed. For example, in Indianapolis, a street named Germania Avenue was renamed Pershing Ave.—for a World War I general of German descent. Nebraska banned instruction in any language except English, but the U.S. Supreme Court ruled the ban illegal in 1923 (Meyer v. Nebraska), by which time the nativist mood had largely subsided. In Iowa, the Babel Proclamation made speaking foreign languages in public illegal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German-American


Nope.. NO similar patterns between the Germans then and the Mexicans now!

NOPE!


Thank god we've got all this German progeny running around fully aware of the history of their people in this Salad Bowl American culture!

And not one syllable of all that takes anything away from AdamsApple's comments on assimilation of German immigrants into American culture. One branch of my family is strongly Irish and our immigrant ancesters incurred those "no Irish need apply" signs when the locals resisted perceived threats to their peace and livelihoods due to a large influx of Irish into their communities. Many decades ago, my father had to accompany my Italian brother-in-law to be in advance of the wedding lest he be mistaken for a Mexican illegal (strongly discriminated against in those days) and on that basis would be denied admission to the barber shop.

Yes this country has a strong history of racism and discrimination but we have evolved and advanced beyond that so that it is not a strong component of our common present culture. So not one of those Irish immigrants or their progeny, nor my brother-in-law and his family who immigrated a generation or two later nor any of my Spanish relatives who have been here forever or my Mexican relatives, some who immigrated in the present generation, nor the English, Austrian, German, or French branches of my family--I'm a real mutt--then or now refer to themselves as Irish-Americans, or Italian-Americans, or Spanish-Americans, or Mexican-Americans, or English-Americans, or Austrian-Americans or German-Americans or French-Americans. They are all simply Americans.

Nevertheless, in our area and in other places we have lived, people of a particular ethnic ancestry have often celebrated that heritage with celebrations featuring traditional music, dances, food, costumes, etc. from the 'old country' and everybody, whether they share in the ancestry or not, join in and all have great fun.

It is quite possible to be thoroughly American in all that involves without denying where you come from and what once was.
 
I highlighted the specific points in Adam's posts that are stupid and totally ignorant of historic fact. Indeed, woud you like to venture a guess on if the third generation of mexicans and muslims will assimilate (AFTER INFLUENCING THE CULTURE, no less) and self identify as AMERICAN or would you like to lend Adam your supportive voice in denying that Germans played the same game that we see now?


hey, don't let that pesky think called evidence bother you too much... I'm still waiting for you to let me know how quickly you will accept Hindu Gods on our courthouse lawns.
 
I highlighted the specific points in Adam's posts that are stupid and totally ignorant of historic fact. Indeed, woud you like to venture a guess on if the third generation of mexicans and muslims will assimilate (AFTER INFLUENCING THE CULTURE, no less) and self identify as AMERICAN or would you like to lend Adam your supportive voice in denying that Germans played the same game that we see now?


hey, don't let that pesky think called evidence bother you too much... I'm still waiting for you to let me know how quickly you will accept Hindu Gods on our courthouse lawns.

As I explained in some detail to you on the Merry Christmas thread, if the Hindu community wanted to commemorate a date important to them, I would have absolutely no problem with an appropriate display of that on the courthouse lawn. Nor a St. Patrick's display or Cinco de Mayo or any other appropriate display commemorating particular events. Not one of those things would take a single thing away from me nor require anything of me nor impose any consequence on me regardless of what I might think about it.

Your other comments re Germans, etc. are pure red herrings unrelated to the intent of AdamsApple's post.
 
No, my comments regarding Germans are reflective of actual history. maybe you want to show this evil atheist up and prove him wrong with EVIDENCE? Your call.


Also, I'd love to take you up on that offer. since christians arbitrarily stole dec. 25th anyway then you can stand your nativity scene right next to the pagan pentacle.
 
No, my comments regarding Germans are reflective of actual history.

No, your history, make up any silly history you want Shogun, that don't make it so.

maybe you want to show this evil atheist up and prove him wrong with EVIDENCE? Your call.

YOUR evil, that's a laugh.:rofl:

As far as evidence, its EVERYWHERE, we can pick, and choose till it fits OUR agenda.


Also, I'd love to take you up on that offer. since christians arbitrarily stole dec. 25th anyway then you can stand your nativity scene right next to the pagan pentacle.

A DAY has been stolen?

Get a grip.:eusa_think:
 
Who is making shit up?

IM THE GUY POSTING HIS SOURCES.

If you want to avoid stepping up to the plate by resroting to rhetorical bullshit then be my guest.

YOUR evil, that's a laugh.

Apparently, what's evil is your grasp of which "you're" to use.

Back to the issue...

If your evidence is so easy to pick up then spare me your Quasimodo charm and whip it out. After all, I can readily show you how dec. 25 really has no connection with the birth of jebus using EVIDENCE. Indeed, maybe you should get a better grip on your comprehension of your own holiday.
 
Who is making shit up?

IM THE GUY POSTING HIS SOURCES.

If you want to avoid stepping up to the plate by resroting to rhetorical bullshit then be my guest.

YOUR evil, that's a laugh.

Apparently, what's evil is your grasp of which "you're" to use.

Back to the issue...

If your evidence is so easy to pick up then spare me your Quasimodo charm and whip it out. After all, I can readily show you how dec. 25 really has no connection with the birth of jebus using EVIDENCE. Indeed, maybe you should get a better grip on your comprehension of your own holiday.

Jesus was most likely born in mid to late October. The Catholic Church took 25 December because as you have pointed out it was already a celebration by pagens, it was a well practiced move in the early church to take a pagen holiday and reinvent it as a Christian one, that way everyone was already celebrating anyway and made it easier to convert them.
 
It's refreshing to see not only an admittance like that but also clarification of a pattern of behaviour and the purpose thereof.


RGS, sir, you get the todays Daily Sho'nuff Award


Thank you for being honest and have a great new year.
 
José;634978 said:
Pressure groups created during the last two or three decades do not qualify as “continued history of mexican armed resistance from the 19th century to this day against the annexation of Texas and Califórnia”.

Any mexican claim over the american southwest and/or accusations of white supremacism in the US are illegitimate for two basic reasons:

1) – Absence of a continued mexican territorial claim dating back to the 19th century and materialised in the form of armed, or at least, political resistance.

2) – Absence of a native mexican population displaced from the regions annexed by the US and reivindicating their right to return to their historical homelands.


But we all know that it is demographics not José’s political theories what will eventually determine the future of the american southwest.

I’m fully aware that all the advocacy groups cited by SE are fringe organizations.

But as an impartial observer I have an advice for the american people:

From the point of view of american nationalism, it would be wise to reduce the flow of illegal hispanic immigration to a trickle, just to be on the safe side.

I understand what you are saying but THEY think they have a claim on US soil today. They appear to be drawing upon and appealing to a latent feeling among mexicans that these southwest territories still belong to them, no matter the lack of historical resistance.

And it's a lot more than just demographics too. When there is organized latino leadership in our universities fomenting against America, the next steps that follow will be much more serious as these people infiltrate our political system. These groups may be "fringe" now, but that is exactly how things change and not necessarily for the better. Witness the growth of leftist "fringe" politics in America since the fifties and sixties. This is more of the same, latino version. ahora marchamos, manana votamos

I totally agree that we need to close our borders now. Otherwise someday we may not be able to.

Feliz Ano Nuevo! ...or is it... Feliz Natal e Próspero Ano Novo!
 
Who is making shit up?

We ALL are, you have your sources, I have mine.

IM THE GUY POSTING HIS SOURCES.

What, you want a cracker? Sources are like a opinion's, their all over the place. Get real, if you want to be taken serious.

If you want to avoid stepping up to the plate by resroting to rhetorical bullshit then be my guest.

Snappy........:eusa_dance:

YOUR evil, that's a laugh.

Apparently, what's evil is your grasp of which "you're" to use.

Finally, he's showing the depth of his insignificance, having to resort to correcting grammar.

Powerful argument there Shogun.:wtf:

Back to the issue...

Yes, please....

If your evidence is so easy to pick up then spare me your Quasimodo charm and whip it out.

What, you think I visit this board to do all the leg work Shogun? Its no harder than a Google here, or a Google there to provide "evidence". What evidence do you want chief? How Christmas was stolen, or how Christians stole Christmas, or how Christmas, and Christians conspired to steal the 25th of December, you choose.:neutral:

After all, I can readily show you how dec. 25 really has no connection with the birth of jebus using EVIDENCE. Indeed, maybe you should get a better grip on your comprehension of your own holiday.

Pathetic, first, why is the birth of Jesus so fucking important to you, and second, why would I want evidence of such?

Lastly, I could give a shit less, if Christmas were celebrated on Thanksgiving day, only I'm sure in your "burr up your butt" world, that day was stolen too.

Get a grip..................:badgrin:
 
We ALL are, you have your sources, I have mine.

Then post yours, buddy. Or sit there and bleed. Your choice.


What, you want a cracker? Sources are like a opinion's, their all over the place. Get real, if you want to be taken serious.


How about you post YOUR evidence if YOU want to be taken seriously. So far, you've added a sum total of jack shit to this conversation. If you had viable sources that contradicted mine then let's see em. Otherwise, it's pretty clear why you haven't posted anything worthwhile yet.

sources are like opinions? Clearly, I'm dealing with a mastermind.



Snappy........:eusa_dance:


Prove me wrong. Be my guest. Don't just stand there making idle threats.. Let's see you skin that smokestack.


Finally, he's showing the depth of his insignificance, having to resort to correcting grammar.

As opposed to your other relevant input to the thread? Oh wait.. you haven't added anything to the conversation besides rhetorical bullshit.. Duh, my bad.

I'll forgive you the grammer fuckup if you can scrape together ANYTHING to support your position in opposition to mine. for real, show this big evil net bastard that you understand the significant of backing up your point with evidence beyond worthless talking points. Heeeere kitty kitty kitty kitty...



What, you think I visit this board to do all the leg work Shogun? Its no harder than a Google here, or a Google there to provide "evidence". What evidence do you want chief? How Christmas was stolen, or how Christians stole Christmas, or how Christmas, and Christians conspired to steal the 25th of December, you choose.:neutral:


HAHAHAHAHA!
talk about the ULTIMATE fucking copout!
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!
"derrr, duhhh.. I dont wanna do yer homewer, derrrr"
:rofl:

Way to show me how a real cognitive master works, dude!


Pathetic, first, why is the birth of Jesus so fucking important to you, and second, why would I want evidence of such?


Are you even following the thread or did your buspar and lithium just cause an interaction? If you cannot fathom how the actual birth date of jebus is relevant to the monopoly of a season's celebrations then perhaps you'd feel better sitting at the child's table, dude.

for real, is the left side of your face not working? You might be having a stroke.


Lastly, I could give a shit less, if Christmas were celebrated on Thanksgiving day, only I'm sure in your "burr up your butt" world, that day was stolen too.

Get a grip..................:badgrin:


Well, I guess that won't be the first thing you'd be wrong about. Indeed, it's too bad you prefer ignorance over knowledge. Maybe your new years resolution could be to get a grip on a few facts. Scary, I know. Learning is like a big dangerous jungle where you might discover a reason to consider more than your own easy to reach circle!


I get pretty bored with people who have no intention of retorting with more than ad hominems, dude. Maybe you should learn the value of evidence before replying..
 
We ALL are, you have your sources, I have mine.

Then post yours, buddy. Or sit there and bleed. Your choice.

First intellegent thing you've said.


What, you want a cracker? Sources are like a opinion's, their all over the place. Get real, if you want to be taken serious.


How about you post YOUR evidence if YOU want to be taken seriously. So far, you've added a sum total of jack shit to this conversation.

What part of this conversation aren't you getting? I've added as much, if not more to this conversation as you have.

If you had viable sources that contradicted mine then let's see em. Otherwise, it's pretty clear why you haven't posted anything worthwhile yet.

Clear to who, YOU? Why would I even need to contradict anything you've posted? You haven't posted jack shit, nor added anything of value to this conversation.

What's with you? Do you live in some kind of parallel world?

sources are like opinions? Clearly, I'm dealing with a mastermind.

No, I'm the one saddled with THAT job.



Snappy........:eusa_dance:


Prove me wrong. Be my guest. Don't just stand there making idle threats.. Let's see you skin that smokestack.

This is great, now he resorts to the fucking movie's, at least he's, well, consistently stupid.


Finally, he's showing the depth of his insignificance, having to resort to correcting grammar.

As opposed to your other relevant input to the thread? Oh wait.. you haven't added anything to the conversation besides rhetorical bullshit.. Duh, my bad.

I'll forgive you on this..........

I'll forgive you the grammer fuckup if you can scrape together ANYTHING to support your position in opposition to mine. for real, show this big evil net bastard that you understand the significant of backing up your point with evidence beyond worthless talking points. Heeeere kitty kitty kitty kitty...

Are you ok?

I could give a shit less if you forgive me or not, wow.:lol:

I don't have to back up shit, all I've got to do is bring into the light of day your line of bull shit, the rest will work itself out.:doubt:



What, you think I visit this board to do all the leg work Shogun? Its no harder than a Google here, or a Google there to provide "evidence". What evidence do you want chief? How Christmas was stolen, or how Christians stole Christmas, or how Christmas, and Christians conspired to steal the 25th of December, you choose.:neutral:


HAHAHAHAHA!
talk about the ULTIMATE fucking copout!
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!
"derrr, duhhh.. I dont wanna do yer homewer, derrrr"
:rofl:

Way to show me how a real cognitive master works, dude!

Seems to have gotten your attention, DUDE!:shock:


Pathetic, first, why is the birth of Jesus so fucking important to you, and second, why would I want evidence of such?


Are you even following the thread or did your buspar and lithium just cause an interaction? If you cannot fathom how the actual birth date of jebus is relevant to the monopoly of a season's celebrations then perhaps you'd feel better sitting at the child's table, dude.

for real, is the left side of your face not working? You might be having a stroke.

Only one here having a stroke Shogun is YOU. Hope you recover.:eusa_boohoo:


Lastly, I could give a shit less, if Christmas were celebrated on Thanksgiving day, only I'm sure in your "burr up your butt" world, that day was stolen too.

Get a grip..................:badgrin:


Well, I guess that won't be the first thing you'd be wrong about. Indeed, it's too bad you prefer ignorance over knowledge. Maybe your new years resolution could be to get a grip on a few facts. Scary, I know. Learning is like a big dangerous jungle where you might discover a reason to consider more than your own easy to reach circle!

Your a hoot, its a good thing you know scary, cause walking in your shoes would be fucking scary.


I get pretty bored with people who have no intention of retorting with more than ad hominems, dude. Maybe you should learn the value of evidence before replying..

I was bored right after I made my first post on this thread, but, what the hell, I've always enjoyed picking on Internet bullies.

Oh, as a side bar, have you looked into spell check?

Maybe you should stay on the porch...........:rolleyes:
 
*sigh* WHY do you people post shit that is easily proven wrong? For real, is it THAT HARD to consider the evidence before saying dumb shit?

Where is your proof that early German immigrants were no different than today’s Latino and Muslim immigrants? The wikipedia source you provided gave no proof that German immigrants entered this country illegally, that they flew the German flag in preference to the American flag, that they had no interest in learning English (did we have to make the German language option available for them?), that they did not make an effort to assimilate into the American culture?

Your wikipedia article was about suspicions against Americans of German extraction that developed during wartime, which could be expected considering that Germany was the enemy. The same suspicions arose against Americans of Japanese extraction during WWII. The main fear on the government’s part was that these people could be enlisted to act as spies for Germany. Even your posted article states that there was very little concrete evidence to justify such claims.

No where in the wikipedia article you posted did it give an impression that Americans of German origin were a problem for America during WWI. That’s because they weren’t. They had assimilated into the American culture, they were proud to be American citizens, they learned to speak English, and they fought in our wars as American soldiers.

I got quite a chuckle out of your comment that I didn’t know the history of my own ancestors. I have heard the stories and read the personal journals of how the German immigrants were PROUD to live in America and be American citizens. They were proud to have an opportunity to be contributors to the American CULTURE. I can only conclude that it is YOU who doesn’t know the history of my ancestors--and probably had no interest in knowing it until this conversation developed.
 
Originally posted by ScreamingEagle
I understand what you are saying but THEY think they have a claim on US soil today. They appear to be drawing upon and appealing to a latent feeling among mexicans that these southwest territories still belong to them, no matter the lack of historical resistance.

Exactly, SE.

Many mexicans, both in Mexico and abroad, seem to be oblivious to the “rules” that govern land disputes since the dawn of our species on earth as well as the main features of modern democratic states.

According to the tacit, customary “laws” that regulate territorial disputes between human societies, Mexico forfeited its sovereign rights over the states of the american southwest when the government and the people of that country lost their collective will to fight for them more than 150 years ago.

As far as the treatment of its latino population is concerned, no one can raise against America the same accusations of ethnic supremacism so justifiably raised against Israel, since the entire native hispanic population of the former mexican territories (Californios, Tejanos etc...) enjoys full democratic rights as american citizens.

And let's not forget that many Californios fought alongside mexican troops led by Santa Anna against the Anglo settlers.

The US government didn't use this fact as a pretext to deny their right to return to their historical homelands after the war.

At this point, the obvious question that comes to mind is:

Why do so many mexicans still regard the american southwest as part of their country?

I believe that this issue is used as a way to rationalize mexican illegal entry into America.

If California, Texas, New Mexico etc etc... did not become legitimate parts of the US with the passage of time and continue to be just territories usurped from its southern neighbour by brute force then the whole issue of illegal hispanic immigration becomes moot.

If these territories rightfully belong to Mexico and are only in temporary US possession then hispanics in the US are not violating US sovereignty. In fact they are not even immigrating.

According to this view “illegal” Mexicans in Texas or California are only moving from one mexican state to another, let’s say, from Baja to Alta.

And not only Mexicans, but latinos in general, are not commiting any crime either, according to this way of thinking.

We are just moving from one part of Latin America (Peru, Argentina, Brazil, El Salvador, Colombia, etc...) to another that happens to be under temporary US occupation.

(Historical footnote: it is interesting to observe that a considerable part of the original hispanic population of Texas and California was not mexican themselves, but Peruvians, Chileans etc... The mexican government promoted immigration from other parts of Latin America to settle its northern territories).

I think the more the american society calls these illegal immigrants criminals the more they turn to this distorted view of the american southwest as being part of modern Mexico as a way to rationalize their illegal status.

I’m sure there are a number of mexican citizens residing in Mexico, with no intention to immigrate to the US, who have the latent (and erroneous) feeling that those territories still belong to Mexico, you referred to in your post, by purely nationalistic reasons.

But it is my understanding that most illegals just use the issue as a way to obtain a “legal status” denied to them by the american society.

But the reasons why mexicans and latinos in general believe they have a right to live in the american southwest are absolutely irrelevant.

The real problem is that the american authorities charged with the protection of America’s borders allow it to happen and the authorities charged with the detention and deportation of illegals don’t do their job properly.

From the president of the US to the most obscure immigration agent, these american civil servants are not doing the job they get paid to do by the american people.
 
Originally posted by ScreamingEagle
Feliz Ano Nuevo! ...or is it... Feliz Natal e Próspero Ano Novo!

LOL...

They are both correct... : )

And it’s OK to greet me in both languages.

Happy New Year to you and all your loved ones too, ÁGUILA GRITADORA / ÁGUIA GRITADORA... : )
 
Where is your proof that early German immigrants were no different than today’s Latino and Muslim immigrants? The wikipedia source you provided gave no proof that German immigrants entered this country illegally, that they flew the German flag in preference to the American flag, that they had no interest in learning English (did we have to make the German language option available for them?), that they did not make an effort to assimilate into the American culture?

Your wikipedia article was about suspicions against Americans of German extraction that developed during wartime, which could be expected considering that Germany was the enemy. The same suspicions arose against Americans of Japanese extraction during WWII. The main fear on the government’s part was that these people could be enlisted to act as spies for Germany. Even your posted article states that there was very little concrete evidence to justify such claims.

No where in the wikipedia article you posted did it give an impression that Americans of German origin were a problem for America during WWI. That’s because they weren’t. They had assimilated into the American culture, they were proud to be American citizens, they learned to speak English, and they fought in our wars as American soldiers.

I got quite a chuckle out of your comment that I didn’t know the history of my own ancestors. I have heard the stories and read the personal journals of how the German immigrants were PROUD to live in America and be American citizens. They were proud to have an opportunity to be contributors to the American CULTURE. I can only conclude that it is YOU who doesn’t know the history of my ancestors--and probably had no interest in knowing it until this conversation developed.


*sigh*

AGAIN, put on your reading spectacles.

YOUR quote from post #32

Since I am an American of German ancestry, with both mother and father being of German stock, you tell me how difficult it was for Germans to acclimate to American culture. They WANTED to do it and were proud to be Americans. My ancestry never once referred to themselves as German-Americans.


MY ANSWER

Assimilation and World War I anti-German sentiment

After two or three generations, German Americans adopted mainstream American customs—some of which they heavily influenced—and switched their language to English. As one scholar concludes, "The overwhelming evidence ... indicates that the German-American school was a bilingual one much (perhaps a whole generation or more) earlier than 1917, and that the majority of the pupils may have been English-dominant bilinguals from the early 1880s on."[32] By 1914 the older members were attending German language church services while the younger members were attending English services (in Lutheran, Evangelical and Catholic churches). In German parochial schools the children spoke English among themselves, though some of their classes were in German. In 1917–18, nearly all German language instruction ended, as did most German language church services.

During World War I, German Americans, especially those born abroad, were sometimes accused of being too sympathetic to the German Empire. Theodore Roosevelt denounced "hyphenated Americanism" and insisted that dual loyalties were impossible in wartime. A small minority came out for Germany, including H. L. Mencken, who believed the German democratic system was superior to American democracy. Likewise Harvard psychology professor Hugo Münsterberg dropped his efforts to mediate between America and Germany and threw his efforts behind the German cause.[33]

Several thousand vocal opponents of the war were imprisoned.[34] Thousands were forced to buy war bonds to show their loyalty. The Red Cross barred individuals with German last names from joining in fear of sabotage. One man was hanged in Illinois, apparently for no other reason than that he appeared to be of German descent. The killers were found innocent of the crime and the hanging was called an act of patriotism by a jury. A Minnesota minister was tarred and feathered when he was overheard praying in German with a dying woman.[35] Some Germans during this time "Americanized" their names (e.g. Schmidt to Smith, Müller to Miller, Rickenbacher to Rickenbacker, Eisenhauer to Eisenhower) and limited their use of the German language in public places. Similarly, foods with German names such as sauerkraut and bratwurst were renamed "liberty cabbage" and "liberty sausage". In Chicago Frederick Stock temporarily stepped down as conductor of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra until he finalized his naturalization papers. Berlioz replaced Wagner on programs. In Cincinnati, reaction to anti-German sentiment during World War I caused the Public Library of Cincinnati to withdraw all German books from its shelves.[36] German-named streets were renamed. For example, in Indianapolis, a street named Germania Avenue was renamed Pershing Ave.—for a World War I general of German descent. Nebraska banned instruction in any language except English, but the U.S. Supreme Court ruled the ban illegal in 1923 (Meyer v. Nebraska), by which time the nativist mood had largely subsided. In Iowa, the Babel Proclamation made speaking foreign languages in public illegal.


Now, let me walk you through this since you seem to need someones hand while crossing this street:


1. It's a FACT that your ancestors did think of themselves as GERMAN-AMERICANS. Were this not the case then TR would have never had a reason to make ANY comment about the loyalty of hyphenated Americans. I'll give you a second to catch your breath.

2. CLEARLY germans understood the difficulties in retaining their german identity while assimilating into American culture. If not, THEN WHY DID THEY CHANGE THEIR FUCKING NAMES? The wiki article gives specific actual examples of germans who discovered what the price was of keeping THEIR GERMAN HERITAGE despite the wave of nationalism. If you can't figure this out then smoke another crack rock, buddy. After all, it's brain food.

3. Of course they wanted to come to America. So do Mexicans. THE FIRST GENERATION were not quick to shed their GERMANIC identity just like MEXICANS ARE NOT TODAY. Notice the generational gap between first and second generation GERMANS and how identical it is for MEXICANS. Indeed, schooling you on your own heritage is kinda funny, isn't it?

4. This pattern of assimilation was NOT merely the product of WW1 although it sure does point out how many were LOYAL to their germanic homeland. ENJOY:

frese_fig01a.jpg


Further, the EXACT SAME pattern of Germans enlisting in America's military for love of their new country can be seen by today's Latinos whose enlistment rates are EXACTLY comparable. Feeling stupid yet?

5. When did I say anything about entereing the country illegally? QUOTE me where I've even remotely suggested that Germans were illegal. Is this really how capable you are of thinking or did I just bust you reaching for the Wookie arguement? But, by all means, QUOTE ME.



Indeed, your lack of even the most remedial hisotry of German Americans is laughable. Hell, you act like YOU are the only one of us with German blood in their veins. So far we've discovered that you are completely wrong about the assimilation process of first and second generation german immigrants AND we've seen how this directly compared to the FIRST AND SECOND GENERATION of mexicans. hey, don't blame me if you are stewing in your own ignorance. Hell, there is a reason why I'M the one able to post evidence instead of rhetorical bullshit.




Maybe the ravings of trobinett's stroke-victim posts suffice but, I assure you, they are even less impressive than yours.
 
What a “tutorial” on how I am supposed to interpret your posted article! You need to learn that not everyone thinks the way you do (politically correct) or gets the same interpretation (politically correct again) from the written word. You excel at hurling insults. Have you figured out a way yet to make yourself any money from that great (and worthless) talent?

I did note that you left out from your post very salient points that refute your argument that the majority of Americans of German descent were problems for the country during WWI:

“Fear of a backlash to the war declaration prompted the federal government to undertake a number of restrictive measures to prevent sabotage and espionage by German aliens, as well as citizens of German descent living in the United States. Aliens were basically defined as those who had not completed the naturalization process.

“Although the arrests of German aliens by the United States government was initiated during the Spring of 1917, scrutiny against the aliens actually commenced in August 1914. At the outbreak of World War I, the Wilson Administration instituted a calculated program of propaganda that alerted the American people to be aware of German espionage…By the end of the War, the United States Government arrested more than 4000 of the aliens. While very little concrete evidence existed to justify the allegations of espionage and ensuing apprehensions of aliens, the furor created by the Wilson administration succeeded in giving the president the public support he needed for his 1917 war declaration. (4)”

As I mentioned earlier, most of your wikipedia article deals with wartime activities; and the anti-German sentiment was due to the war with Germany. It was only logical during wartime that there would be suspicions about citizens of German descent. Didn’t the same thing happen to citizens of Japanese descent during WWII? Theodore Roosevelt’s point was that he would not tolerate dual loyalty which would tear the country apart—a point which has application to our illegal immigration problem today.

It’s a FACT that your ancestors did think of themselves as GERMAN-AMERICANS. Were this not the case then TR would have never had a reason to make ANY comment about the loyalty of hyphenated Americans. I’ll give you a second to catch your breath.

The majority of German immigrant did not refer to themselves as German-Americans. Why would they want to call themselves German-Americans? Their purpose in coming to America was to leave Germany and become Americans where they would have an opportunity to make a better life for themselves than they had in Germany. If they were so gang-ho and proud of being Germans, why did they immigrate to America? To continue their German citizenship?

As pointed out above, TR’s comments were made during wartime and were made to protect the country from dual loyalties.

CLEARLY Germans understood the difficulties in retaining their german identity while assimilating into American culture. If not, THEN WHY DID THEY CHANGE THEIR FUCKING NAMES? The wiki article gives specific actual examples of germans who discovered what the price was of keeping THEIR GERMAN HERITAGE despite the wave of nationalism.

The examples cited in your wikipedia article had to do with anti-German sentiment during wartime. Besides Germans, how many immigrants from other countries changed their names to an Americanized version? This absolutely proves nothing but that they wanted to be recognized as Americans rather than from the country of their origin.

Of course they wanted to come to America. So do Mexicans. THE FIRST AND SECOND GENERATION were not quick to shed their GERMANIC identity just like MEXICANS ARE NOT TODAY. Notice the generational gap between first and second generation GERMANS and how identical it is for MEXICANS.

Then let the Mexicans come here legally. Let them wait their turn in line to do so, and while waiting, learn English and the laws of our land. Let them WANT to become part of the American culture. Let them demonstrate that they can obey our laws by not sneaking into our country in the “dark of night”. Let them fly the American flag instead of the Mexican flag in their protest marches. What you have written is a bunch of b.s. and you know it. Identical my eye! Point out to me specifically where the German immigrants were responsible for any of the conduct we are dealing with from the illegal immigrants today. That’s the way you want to believe it; it is not the way it was.

This pattern of assimilation was NOT merely the product of WWI although it sure does point out how many were LOYAL to their Germanic homeland. ENJOY

And how many exactly was that? Out of approximately 480,000 German aliens who had not yet completed the naturalization process when the war began, the government had arrested 4,000 by war’s end! Big percentage there, Shogun.

Further, the EXACT SAME pattern of Germans enlisting in America’s military for love of their new country can be seen by today’s Latinos whose enlistment rates are EXACTLY comparable. Feeling stupid yet?

Link? Source? Or is this just the “gospel” according to Shogun?

When did I say anything about entering the country illegally? QUOTE me where I’ve even remotely suggested that Germans were illegal. Is this really how capable you are of thinking or did I just bust you reaching out for the Wookie argument? But, by all mean, QUOTE ME.

Go back to posts #10 and #16, the very beginning of our conversation. You jumped in to respond with your politically correct rambling nonsense but never did give a direct answer to the questions that I asked. Instead you tried to convince me that today’s illegal immigrants are no more dangerous to the country than the early European immigrants.

Since the early European immigrants entered this country legally, how can they intelligently be compared to 12 million plus Mexicans who disregard our laws and enter our country illegally? Evidentally you do not believe that there’s anything to be concerned about when a large number of Mexican citizens enter this country illegally year after year, but I doubt that the people of Texas, Arizona, California, and other states as well would agree with you. I can only assume that you missed the big news recently when Americans used the power they have and prevented Washington from granting amnesty to our latest batch of illegals.
 
Wow.

You go with that, dude.

teaching you that your own heritage enjoyed the same first and second generational patters as every other hypenated ethnic group lost it's entertainment value. If you can't figure out that, in fact, TR's comment on hyphenated immigrants is exactly because of the same GERMAN xenophobia that you toss as mexicans then thats your loss. Coming to America doesn't erase the FACT of pre-American heritage for Germans any more than it does for Mexicans. We see it with every American group that claims a previous nationality. Every one. By all means, blame some big evil taboo word, PC, as if it's the boogeyman that explains your stupidity. It's not political ideology that makes Historic Fact.

Here, Let me leave you with a taste of that Historic FACT:


The Hidden History Of Immigration: Part 1 of 3

In 1990, 58 million Americans claimed German descent, more than those of any other ancestry. Immigration from the independent states and principalities that we now call Germany started in the 1600s and persisted through the 1890s, with some 7 million ultimately settling in America. The newcomers differed by region of origin, class, culture and religion. About the only thing that united them was language, which they consciously preserved. As early as the mid-1700s, Ben Franklin derided Pennsylvania's Germans. He complained that their children were not learning English, predicting that, "instead of learning our language, we must learn theirs, or live as in a foreign country." Americans, Franklin concluded, were being "Dutched."

In the decades that followed, the Germans spread from the Cumberland Valley to the Midwestern Plains and Mississippi Valley, becoming America's most widely dispersed immigrant group. Farmers were joined by artisans and intellectuals, including the "Forty-Eighters," progressives who escaped the European Revolutions of 1848. Many saw themselves as exiles, in Daniel Boorstin's words, "less anxious to take root in American soil than to transplant German culture." While today, American language and culture exert remarkable influence the world over, German immigrants were convinced that the "high culture" that produced the philosophy of Nietzsche, the poetry of Goethe and the symphonies of Beethoven was superior to anything this country could muster.

As newly opened farmland lured immigrants to the Midwest, Germans fueled the mid-19th-century growth of its cities. "When the German comes in, the Yankee goes out," went the proverb. Soon half or more of the populations of Milwaukee, Cincinnati and St. Louis were German. Displaying "a strong tendency towards self-segregation nearly everywhere they settled," these immigrants recreated the social institutions they left behind-singing societies, gymnastics clubs, German-language newspapers, beer gardens and orchestras. "The Germans live here as in their old Germany" was a common refrain. Not only did the immigrants raise their children to speak the mother tongue, they also insisted that the schools teach German. Wherever their numbers were high, they demanded bilingual programs. Today, critics of bilingual education characterize it as an unprecedented concession to America's growing Spanish-speaking minority. In fact, bilingual education, with the school day divided between English and German became the staple curriculum in many school districts, especially in such Midwestern states as Wisconsin, Nebraska and Missouri.

Closer to home, Baltimore had become a major immigrant port, drawing large numbers of Germans. Most passed on to the agricultural Midwest, but enough remained to make up a quarter of the city's population by the mid-1800s. In 1873, the Baltimore City Council ordered the establishment of bilingual public schools, with German as the exclusive language of instruction for art and music in the upper grades. By 1900, almost 7,000 children, more than 10 percent of the city's student population, were enrolled in these bilingual schools. Linguist Geoffrey Numberg estimates that, "At the turn of the century…more than 6 percent of all American schoolchildren were receiving most or all of their primary education in the German language alone."
http://www.ilw.com/articles/2003,0902-ford.shtm


4&

50th German-American Steuben Parade
http://www.germanparadenyc.org/gallery07-1.html

Germans in Omaha, Nebraska

German immigrants and German Americans in Omaha have influenced the social, cultural, political and economic history of Omaha, from its founding to the present. Valentin J. Peter, editor of the German-language Omaha Tribune, was largely responsible for the formation and leadership of the National German-American Alliance, which exerted tremendous influence of the German-American electorate across the United States between 1912 and 1940.[4] Germans built several successful breweries in the city. Descendants of the community in Omaha included popular entertainers Fred Astaire, Marlon Brando and Nick Nolte.
Culture

Throughout the city there were several Kirchenduestchen - German churches - throughout Omaha.[13] St. Joseph's was a Roman Catholic parish established to serve Omaha's German-speaking Catholics in 1901.[14]

There were several German-language newspapers published in Omaha for local and national distribution. They included the Omaha Tribune, the Volkszeitung Tribune, and the Sonntagspost, which was later called the AmericaHerold.[15]

Edward Rosewater, the Czech editor at The Omaha Bee, used the slogan "Germania our Mother, Columbia our Bride" to describe the kind of "dual-sentimentality" many Germans in America felt towards their country of origin.[

Both here and abroad, the enemy is the same! Perfidious Albion! Over there England has pressed the sword into the hands of almost all the peoples of Europe against Germany. In this country it has a servile press at its command, which uses every foul means to slander everything German and to poison the public mind. - Valentin Peter (1915)[29]


National German-American Alliance
The National German-American Alliance, also called the NGAA or Deutschamerikanische Nationalbund, was founded Philadelphia, Pennsylvania on October 6, 1901 by Charles J. Hexamer, who also served as its president until 1917.[1][2] Operating as a federation of ethnic German associations, by 1914 the Alliance claimed more than two million members. The mission of the NGAA was to "promote and preserve German culture in America"; essentially seeking to resist the assimilation of Germans in America.[3]

At the height of its popularity, the national organization had chapters in forty-four states and membership levels of 2.5 million people. A professional movement, the NGAA promoted German language instruction in school, the foundation of educational societies, including the German Historical Society, and the publication of histories and journals to demonstrate "the role German-Americans had played in the development of the United States."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_German-American_Alliance


Enjoy some free education, sucker. You can leave your hobgoblin buzzwords at the door.

But, feel free to post your own srouces instead of crying about mine. Heaven forbid you prove your opinion with more than boogeyman talking points on Political Correctness. Also, it's cute how you are trying to backpeddle by insisting that my posts have anything to do with labeling german immigration illegal. Clearly you've figured out that history and fact are on my side in this thread.
 
Wow was that alot of reading! Do either one of you have letters left on your keyboard?:shock:
 

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