The world leaping ahead of us, the U.S. still has no fast trains.

[AZrailwhale]

You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.

We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?

Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?

It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?

Yes, it will.

Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.

That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles. And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.

This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down. Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi. Heck, remember when it was first announced? The Internet does not forget.

The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​

• Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
• Total Current Cost: $52-million
• Travel Speed: 155 mph
• Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour
• Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
• Projected Stops: McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.

How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas

A Las Vegas City Council meeting declared that the Loop would use autonomous Tesla vehicles that will run north under Las Vegas Boulevard.

vegasexperience.com

155 miles per hour! 4,000 passengers per hour! The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world! Completely autonomous vehicles!

Uhhh, no. It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.

This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism. It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, it still does not exist.

It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.

buuuut the train doesn't even go from LA to San Fran, it goes from Lancaster/Palmdale, to Tracy CA. So, 65 miles away from LA. And almost 80 miles from SF. Like I said, from nowhere, TO nowhere.

Actually, they don't even know how to get it to Palmdale.

As I have said many times, I have been watching this for decades. And for the train to get into the LA area, it has to overcome a huge obstacle. And that is traversing the Tehachapi Mountains. There is no way to avoid that, you must go over them. And they still have absolutely no plan on how they are going to do it. In other words, it will never even get past Bakersfield.

In California, there are only 2 ways to take a train from North to South. The one used by passenger trains is the "Coastal Route", which the Surfliner does. It hugs the ocean for most of the trip, never going very far above sea level. That is why the first major transit route followed the old Spanish Trail, then US 101. This is the same route that passenger trains take.

But then, there is still a problem getting from there to the Central Valley. Why do you think I have been mentioning "topography" so damned often? It is not because I like the word, it is because I am really aware of the topography of California, and what exactly that means for trains. No matter what, to get in and out of LA and the San Francisco area you need to cross mountain ranges (most times 2 or more). This can not be avoided, and it is just as much of an engineering challenge today as it was 150 years ago.

Now the Coastal Route is the only way passenger trains take. The other route is the "Tehachapi Loop".

And it is exactly what it sounds and looks like. A long, snaking train route at the summit of the pass so that trains can traverse it. But not passenger trains, they only take it when the coastal route is closed for repairs or maintenance. The max speed of the Loop is 35 miles per hour. And it is heavily traveled by freight trains, so is never used for passenger ones unless there is no other choice.

And from when they first started this project, my main question has always been the same one. "How are they going to take this train into the LA basin?" And over a decade later, there is still no solution. The closest one I heard so far basically involved condemning and destroying most of the city of Tehachapi (including the Hospital and High School), and building it there. Well, obviously that will never happen. And other than that, there is still no plan on how to get it the rest of the way to LA.

Now the part from the Antelope Valley to LA is not that big of a deal really. There is only a single low pass to get through (around Acton), and there is already existing tracks that can be upgraded to support 100 mph trains. Studies been done there long ago, back when the plan was for much of the Metrolink had that as a long term goal. But here is the thing, prior to Moonbeam taking it over, that was what they had been discussing in areas like LA and Sacramento for decades. Not a unified "Bullet Train" system like is normally seen in the world, but selectively upgrading existing lines that could support trains from 100-150 mph with that as demand called for it.

In the 1990's, LA Metrolink released a map of all their proposals, with a timeframe of like 50 years. Mostly trains with a speed of 100 mph, to go to and from selected outlying areas as a way to decrease the congestion that was already a problem. But one line at a time, starting with the ones that had the most ridership, but was already capping out because most were capped at 55-60 mph because of other factors (the trains themselves and the tracks). But never upgrading all of them, just the ones that were showing that they had the demand.

And also as a disaster system. This has been shown in California at least three times in the last 50 years. The 1971, 1989, and 1994 earthquakes devastated parts of that state, and in all three, trains were the only way to get around for months (or years). The I-5/California 14 interchange was completely destroyed twice, and at that time the Palmdale Metrolink route was only a proposal. They had it running within a week, and ridership has only grown over the decades.

But the problem is that people do not understand that the solution does not have to be what some propose, and a huge monolithic single purpose system. It can be done in segments, and not even with the idea of tying them all together into a single system. We sure as hell never built any of our other infrastructure that way, why should it be done this time?

Again bullet trains are impossible from the standpoint of moving people. Sure the yare technically feasible but they are logistically impossible because too many rails would need to be built. However if you want to bust your piggy bank go ahead

What is a "bullet train"? Do you even know what it is?

I think the biggest problem is that you really have no idea what "High Speed Rail" is.

Here is the amazing thing, as much as you are screaming that it will never work, we have been using it in the US for over 20 years!

The "Acela Express" is the line that runs from Boston to New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and DC. Average speed of 150 mph, over 450 miles of track, and carries over 3.5 million passengers per year.

You really have no idea what is even being discussed. I have especially been laughing as for ages you have been screaming it would "never work in the US", completely oblivious it has already been in place for decades.

The "BosWash Corridor" is the only place where population density and traffic patterns make a high speed rail system profitable. The distances are too short for efficient air travel, and there is a LOT of traffic up and down it. Sacramento to SF is similar due to commuter traffic as most people who work in SF can't afford to live there. But you've got to cross that pesky San Francisco Bay on the Bay Bridge. The old bridge was designed for train traffic, the new one isn't and can only be modified by giving up traffic lanes and even then can only carry light rail like interurban trains. The way they HOPE California High Speed rail will work would be MetroRail from downtown Los Angeles to Palmdale, change trains to high speed rail (after they figure how to get across or under the Tehachapi Mountain Range) or a conventional slow speed rail train to Bakersfield with possibly another train change for the high speed run up the central valley. A train change to BART in Sacramento. then BART to downtown San Francisco. The total time will be far longer than the existing coastal route.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Dusty

Those who are wealthy in canada come to the US for treatment when they have a serious illness.
Some frieds from canada stayed with us in Houston so the husband could be treated at MD Anderson cancer center which leads the world in cancer treatment.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Angelo
Keep the populous stoned and compliant.
They're way easier to control.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Angelo

Why would you need high speed rail from dallas to san antonio when Houston is a far larger money maker?

 

[initforme]

Some want to go back to horse and buggy.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

initforme

You mean democrats surely.

 

[22lcidw]

You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.

We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?

Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?

It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?

Yes, it will.

Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.

That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles. And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.

This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down. Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi. Heck, remember when it was first announced? The Internet does not forget.

The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​

• Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
• Total Current Cost: $52-million
• Travel Speed: 155 mph
• Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour
• Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
• Projected Stops: McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.

How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas

A Las Vegas City Council meeting declared that the Loop would use autonomous Tesla vehicles that will run north under Las Vegas Boulevard.

vegasexperience.com

155 miles per hour! 4,000 passengers per hour! The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world! Completely autonomous vehicles!

Uhhh, no. It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.

This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism. It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, it still does not exist.

It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.

buuuut the train doesn't even go from LA to San Fran, it goes from Lancaster/Palmdale, to Tracy CA. So, 65 miles away from LA. And almost 80 miles from SF. Like I said, from nowhere, TO nowhere.

Actually, they don't even know how to get it to Palmdale.

As I have said many times, I have been watching this for decades. And for the train to get into the LA area, it has to overcome a huge obstacle. And that is traversing the Tehachapi Mountains. There is no way to avoid that, you must go over them. And they still have absolutely no plan on how they are going to do it. In other words, it will never even get past Bakersfield.

In California, there are only 2 ways to take a train from North to South. The one used by passenger trains is the "Coastal Route", which the Surfliner does. It hugs the ocean for most of the trip, never going very far above sea level. That is why the first major transit route followed the old Spanish Trail, then US 101. This is the same route that passenger trains take.

But then, there is still a problem getting from there to the Central Valley. Why do you think I have been mentioning "topography" so damned often? It is not because I like the word, it is because I am really aware of the topography of California, and what exactly that means for trains. No matter what, to get in and out of LA and the San Francisco area you need to cross mountain ranges (most times 2 or more). This can not be avoided, and it is just as much of an engineering challenge today as it was 150 years ago.

Now the Coastal Route is the only way passenger trains take. The other route is the "Tehachapi Loop".

And it is exactly what it sounds and looks like. A long, snaking train route at the summit of the pass so that trains can traverse it. But not passenger trains, they only take it when the coastal route is closed for repairs or maintenance. The max speed of the Loop is 35 miles per hour. And it is heavily traveled by freight trains, so is never used for passenger ones unless there is no other choice.

And from when they first started this project, my main question has always been the same one. "How are they going to take this train into the LA basin?" And over a decade later, there is still no solution. The closest one I heard so far basically involved condemning and destroying most of the city of Tehachapi (including the Hospital and High School), and building it there. Well, obviously that will never happen. And other than that, there is still no plan on how to get it the rest of the way to LA.

Now the part from the Antelope Valley to LA is not that big of a deal really. There is only a single low pass to get through (around Acton), and there is already existing tracks that can be upgraded to support 100 mph trains. Studies been done there long ago, back when the plan was for much of the Metrolink had that as a long term goal. But here is the thing, prior to Moonbeam taking it over, that was what they had been discussing in areas like LA and Sacramento for decades. Not a unified "Bullet Train" system like is normally seen in the world, but selectively upgrading existing lines that could support trains from 100-150 mph with that as demand called for it.

In the 1990's, LA Metrolink released a map of all their proposals, with a timeframe of like 50 years. Mostly trains with a speed of 100 mph, to go to and from selected outlying areas as a way to decrease the congestion that was already a problem. But one line at a time, starting with the ones that had the most ridership, but was already capping out because most were capped at 55-60 mph because of other factors (the trains themselves and the tracks). But never upgrading all of them, just the ones that were showing that they had the demand.

And also as a disaster system. This has been shown in California at least three times in the last 50 years. The 1971, 1989, and 1994 earthquakes devastated parts of that state, and in all three, trains were the only way to get around for months (or years). The I-5/California 14 interchange was completely destroyed twice, and at that time the Palmdale Metrolink route was only a proposal. They had it running within a week, and ridership has only grown over the decades.

But the problem is that people do not understand that the solution does not have to be what some propose, and a huge monolithic single purpose system. It can be done in segments, and not even with the idea of tying them all together into a single system. We sure as hell never built any of our other infrastructure that way, why should it be done this time?

Again bullet trains are impossible from the standpoint of moving people. Sure the yare technically feasible but they are logistically impossible because too many rails would need to be built. However if you want to bust your piggy bank go ahead

What is a "bullet train"? Do you even know what it is?

I think the biggest problem is that you really have no idea what "High Speed Rail" is.

Here is the amazing thing, as much as you are screaming that it will never work, we have been using it in the US for over 20 years!

The "Acela Express" is the line that runs from Boston to New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and DC. Average speed of 150 mph, over 450 miles of track, and carries over 3.5 million passengers per year.

You really have no idea what is even being discussed. I have especially been laughing as for ages you have been screaming it would "never work in the US", completely oblivious it has already been in place for decades.

The "BosWash Corridor" is the only place where population density and traffic patterns make a high speed rail system profitable. The distances are too short for efficient air travel, and there is a LOT of traffic up and down it. Sacramento to SF is similar due to commuter traffic as most people who work in SF can't afford to live there. But you've got to cross that pesky San Francisco Bay on the Bay Bridge. The old bridge was designed for train traffic, the new one isn't and can only be modified by giving up traffic lanes and even then can only carry light rail like interurban trains. The way they HOPE California High Speed rail will work would be MetroRail from downtown Los Angeles to Palmdale, change trains to high speed rail (after they figure how to get across or under the Tehachapi Mountain Range) or a conventional slow speed rail train to Bakersfield with possibly another train change for the high speed run up the central valley. A train change to BART in Sacramento. then BART to downtown San Francisco. The total time will be far longer than the existing coastal route.

Seems a bit like a jigsaw puzzle.

 

[Mushroom]

You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.

We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?

Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?

It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?

Yes, it will.

Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.

That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles. And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.

This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down. Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi. Heck, remember when it was first announced? The Internet does not forget.

The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​

• Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
• Total Current Cost: $52-million
• Travel Speed: 155 mph
• Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour
• Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
• Projected Stops: McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.

How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas

A Las Vegas City Council meeting declared that the Loop would use autonomous Tesla vehicles that will run north under Las Vegas Boulevard.

vegasexperience.com

155 miles per hour! 4,000 passengers per hour! The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world! Completely autonomous vehicles!

Uhhh, no. It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.

This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism. It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, it still does not exist.

It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.

buuuut the train doesn't even go from LA to San Fran, it goes from Lancaster/Palmdale, to Tracy CA. So, 65 miles away from LA. And almost 80 miles from SF. Like I said, from nowhere, TO nowhere.

Actually, they don't even know how to get it to Palmdale.

As I have said many times, I have been watching this for decades. And for the train to get into the LA area, it has to overcome a huge obstacle. And that is traversing the Tehachapi Mountains. There is no way to avoid that, you must go over them. And they still have absolutely no plan on how they are going to do it. In other words, it will never even get past Bakersfield.

In California, there are only 2 ways to take a train from North to South. The one used by passenger trains is the "Coastal Route", which the Surfliner does. It hugs the ocean for most of the trip, never going very far above sea level. That is why the first major transit route followed the old Spanish Trail, then US 101. This is the same route that passenger trains take.

But then, there is still a problem getting from there to the Central Valley. Why do you think I have been mentioning "topography" so damned often? It is not because I like the word, it is because I am really aware of the topography of California, and what exactly that means for trains. No matter what, to get in and out of LA and the San Francisco area you need to cross mountain ranges (most times 2 or more). This can not be avoided, and it is just as much of an engineering challenge today as it was 150 years ago.

Now the Coastal Route is the only way passenger trains take. The other route is the "Tehachapi Loop".

And it is exactly what it sounds and looks like. A long, snaking train route at the summit of the pass so that trains can traverse it. But not passenger trains, they only take it when the coastal route is closed for repairs or maintenance. The max speed of the Loop is 35 miles per hour. And it is heavily traveled by freight trains, so is never used for passenger ones unless there is no other choice.

And from when they first started this project, my main question has always been the same one. "How are they going to take this train into the LA basin?" And over a decade later, there is still no solution. The closest one I heard so far basically involved condemning and destroying most of the city of Tehachapi (including the Hospital and High School), and building it there. Well, obviously that will never happen. And other than that, there is still no plan on how to get it the rest of the way to LA.

Now the part from the Antelope Valley to LA is not that big of a deal really. There is only a single low pass to get through (around Acton), and there is already existing tracks that can be upgraded to support 100 mph trains. Studies been done there long ago, back when the plan was for much of the Metrolink had that as a long term goal. But here is the thing, prior to Moonbeam taking it over, that was what they had been discussing in areas like LA and Sacramento for decades. Not a unified "Bullet Train" system like is normally seen in the world, but selectively upgrading existing lines that could support trains from 100-150 mph with that as demand called for it.

In the 1990's, LA Metrolink released a map of all their proposals, with a timeframe of like 50 years. Mostly trains with a speed of 100 mph, to go to and from selected outlying areas as a way to decrease the congestion that was already a problem. But one line at a time, starting with the ones that had the most ridership, but was already capping out because most were capped at 55-60 mph because of other factors (the trains themselves and the tracks). But never upgrading all of them, just the ones that were showing that they had the demand.

And also as a disaster system. This has been shown in California at least three times in the last 50 years. The 1971, 1989, and 1994 earthquakes devastated parts of that state, and in all three, trains were the only way to get around for months (or years). The I-5/California 14 interchange was completely destroyed twice, and at that time the Palmdale Metrolink route was only a proposal. They had it running within a week, and ridership has only grown over the decades.

But the problem is that people do not understand that the solution does not have to be what some propose, and a huge monolithic single purpose system. It can be done in segments, and not even with the idea of tying them all together into a single system. We sure as hell never built any of our other infrastructure that way, why should it be done this time?

Again bullet trains are impossible from the standpoint of moving people. Sure the yare technically feasible but they are logistically impossible because too many rails would need to be built. However if you want to bust your piggy bank go ahead

What is a "bullet train"? Do you even know what it is?

I think the biggest problem is that you really have no idea what "High Speed Rail" is.

Here is the amazing thing, as much as you are screaming that it will never work, we have been using it in the US for over 20 years!

The "Acela Express" is the line that runs from Boston to New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and DC. Average speed of 150 mph, over 450 miles of track, and carries over 3.5 million passengers per year.

You really have no idea what is even being discussed. I have especially been laughing as for ages you have been screaming it would "never work in the US", completely oblivious it has already been in place for decades.

The "BosWash Corridor" is the only place where population density and traffic patterns make a high speed rail system profitable. The distances are too short for efficient air travel, and there is a LOT of traffic up and down it. Sacramento to SF is similar due to commuter traffic as most people who work in SF can't afford to live there. But you've got to cross that pesky San Francisco Bay on the Bay Bridge.

Not at all. It drops the passengers off at Pershing Square (Oakland), where they use the existing subway system to finish the travel. Or some just hop on the cross-bay ferry if they are working near the Ferry Terminal.

Kind of like the NY line.

And much of that travel is also the reverse, people living in SF but working in Sacramento, especially lobbyists and lawyers.

 

[Mushroom]

You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.

We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?

Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?

It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?

Yes, it will.

Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.

That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles. And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.

This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down. Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi. Heck, remember when it was first announced? The Internet does not forget.

The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​

• Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
• Total Current Cost: $52-million
• Travel Speed: 155 mph
• Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour
• Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
• Projected Stops: McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.

How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas

A Las Vegas City Council meeting declared that the Loop would use autonomous Tesla vehicles that will run north under Las Vegas Boulevard.

vegasexperience.com

155 miles per hour! 4,000 passengers per hour! The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world! Completely autonomous vehicles!

Uhhh, no. It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.

This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism. It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, it still does not exist.

It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.

California was the worst place to attempt it.
The first high speed line should run between Dallas and San Antonio. Logistically it can be done more easily and affordably in open terrain than say DC to Boston or SF to San Diego.

Gasoline is $6 (US) a gallon in Europe and before long it will be that much here and probably $10 there.

Why? There isn't enough traffic to support that. The only place where a bullet train has a chance is along the NY to DC line. No other place in the USA can support it. And right now, thanks to the covid bullshit, and the exodus from NY, even that line is no longer supportable. Just because you can build something, doesn't mean you SHOULD build something.

True. Chicago to NYC too.
Keeping in mind, these ideas should have been implemented decades ago, when it was more feasible--many routes could have been constructed alongside new Interstates, etc....Japan's had them since the 90's.

And once again, you go completely off the rails and just make garbage up.

Japan has had them since the 1960's.

You all really need to learn how to do research, and not just make crap up all the time.

 

[Mushroom]

You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.

We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?

Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?

It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?

Yes, it will.

Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.

That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles. And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.

This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down. Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi. Heck, remember when it was first announced? The Internet does not forget.

The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​

• Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
• Total Current Cost: $52-million
• Travel Speed: 155 mph
• Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour
• Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
• Projected Stops: McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.

How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas

A Las Vegas City Council meeting declared that the Loop would use autonomous Tesla vehicles that will run north under Las Vegas Boulevard.

vegasexperience.com

155 miles per hour! 4,000 passengers per hour! The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world! Completely autonomous vehicles!

Uhhh, no. It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.

This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism. It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, it still does not exist.

It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.

California was the worst place to attempt it.
The first high speed line should run between Dallas and San Antonio. Logistically it can be done more easily and affordably in open terrain than say DC to Boston or SF to San Diego.

Atlanta to Miami would be packed every day.

Gasoline is $6 (US) a gallon in Europe and before long it will be that much here and probably $10 there.

No express train from DC to Boston would be possible because people would want to get off along the way and these people would not travel making the line dumb

Yes, not possible.

Gee, to bad for you that the Acela Express is over 20 years old, which shows you are either lying, or failing to do any research at all.

GO ahead, look it up. Acela Express.

Acela - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Mushroom]

You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.

We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?

Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?

It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?

Yes, it will.

Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.

That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles. And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.

This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down. Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi. Heck, remember when it was first announced? The Internet does not forget.

The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​

• Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
• Total Current Cost: $52-million
• Travel Speed: 155 mph
• Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour
• Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
• Projected Stops: McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.

How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas

A Las Vegas City Council meeting declared that the Loop would use autonomous Tesla vehicles that will run north under Las Vegas Boulevard.

vegasexperience.com

155 miles per hour! 4,000 passengers per hour! The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world! Completely autonomous vehicles!

Uhhh, no. It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.

This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism. It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, it still does not exist.

It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.

buuuut the train doesn't even go from LA to San Fran, it goes from Lancaster/Palmdale, to Tracy CA. So, 65 miles away from LA. And almost 80 miles from SF. Like I said, from nowhere, TO nowhere.

Actually, they don't even know how to get it to Palmdale.

As I have said many times, I have been watching this for decades. And for the train to get into the LA area, it has to overcome a huge obstacle. And that is traversing the Tehachapi Mountains. There is no way to avoid that, you must go over them. And they still have absolutely no plan on how they are going to do it. In other words, it will never even get past Bakersfield.

In California, there are only 2 ways to take a train from North to South. The one used by passenger trains is the "Coastal Route", which the Surfliner does. It hugs the ocean for most of the trip, never going very far above sea level. That is why the first major transit route followed the old Spanish Trail, then US 101. This is the same route that passenger trains take.

But then, there is still a problem getting from there to the Central Valley. Why do you think I have been mentioning "topography" so damned often? It is not because I like the word, it is because I am really aware of the topography of California, and what exactly that means for trains. No matter what, to get in and out of LA and the San Francisco area you need to cross mountain ranges (most times 2 or more). This can not be avoided, and it is just as much of an engineering challenge today as it was 150 years ago.

Now the Coastal Route is the only way passenger trains take. The other route is the "Tehachapi Loop".

And it is exactly what it sounds and looks like. A long, snaking train route at the summit of the pass so that trains can traverse it. But not passenger trains, they only take it when the coastal route is closed for repairs or maintenance. The max speed of the Loop is 35 miles per hour. And it is heavily traveled by freight trains, so is never used for passenger ones unless there is no other choice.

And from when they first started this project, my main question has always been the same one. "How are they going to take this train into the LA basin?" And over a decade later, there is still no solution. The closest one I heard so far basically involved condemning and destroying most of the city of Tehachapi (including the Hospital and High School), and building it there. Well, obviously that will never happen. And other than that, there is still no plan on how to get it the rest of the way to LA.

Now the part from the Antelope Valley to LA is not that big of a deal really. There is only a single low pass to get through (around Acton), and there is already existing tracks that can be upgraded to support 100 mph trains. Studies been done there long ago, back when the plan was for much of the Metrolink had that as a long term goal. But here is the thing, prior to Moonbeam taking it over, that was what they had been discussing in areas like LA and Sacramento for decades. Not a unified "Bullet Train" system like is normally seen in the world, but selectively upgrading existing lines that could support trains from 100-150 mph with that as demand called for it.

In the 1990's, LA Metrolink released a map of all their proposals, with a timeframe of like 50 years. Mostly trains with a speed of 100 mph, to go to and from selected outlying areas as a way to decrease the congestion that was already a problem. But one line at a time, starting with the ones that had the most ridership, but was already capping out because most were capped at 55-60 mph because of other factors (the trains themselves and the tracks). But never upgrading all of them, just the ones that were showing that they had the demand.

And also as a disaster system. This has been shown in California at least three times in the last 50 years. The 1971, 1989, and 1994 earthquakes devastated parts of that state, and in all three, trains were the only way to get around for months (or years). The I-5/California 14 interchange was completely destroyed twice, and at that time the Palmdale Metrolink route was only a proposal. They had it running within a week, and ridership has only grown over the decades.

But the problem is that people do not understand that the solution does not have to be what some propose, and a huge monolithic single purpose system. It can be done in segments, and not even with the idea of tying them all together into a single system. We sure as hell never built any of our other infrastructure that way, why should it be done this time?

Again bullet trains are impossible from the standpoint of moving people. Sure the yare technically feasible but they are logistically impossible because too many rails would need to be built. However if you want to bust your piggy bank go ahead

What is a "bullet train"? Do you even know what it is?

I think the biggest problem is that you really have no idea what "High Speed Rail" is.

Here is the amazing thing, as much as you are screaming that it will never work, we have been using it in the US for over 20 years!

The "Acela Express" is the line that runs from Boston to New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and DC. Average speed of 150 mph, over 450 miles of track, and carries over 3.5 million passengers per year.

You really have no idea what is even being discussed. I have especially been laughing as for ages you have been screaming it would "never work in the US", completely oblivious it has already been in place for decades.

The "BosWash Corridor" is the only place where population density and traffic patterns make a high speed rail system profitable. The distances are too short for efficient air travel, and there is a LOT of traffic up and down it. Sacramento to SF is similar due to commuter traffic as most people who work in SF can't afford to live there. But you've got to cross that pesky San Francisco Bay on the Bay Bridge. The old bridge was designed for train traffic, the new one isn't and can only be modified by giving up traffic lanes and even then can only carry light rail like interurban trains. The way they HOPE California High Speed rail will work would be MetroRail from downtown Los Angeles to Palmdale, change trains to high speed rail (after they figure how to get across or under the Tehachapi Mountain Range) or a conventional slow speed rail train to Bakersfield with possibly another train change for the high speed run up the central valley. A train change to BART in Sacramento. then BART to downtown San Francisco. The total time will be far longer than the existing coastal route.

Actually, I have been following the way they have wanted to do Metrorail for decades.

And they never intended HSR on each line, only on the ones that made the most sense for density. Lines like Simi Valley to LA, Riverside to LA, and the like. The AV was never intended to be a true "bullet train", because the top speed without huge changes is only around 75. But that 75 would still be a 50% improvement over the current 50.

The same with the decades old concept of LA to Vegas. Not many would have used it for commuting (other than entertainers), but the tourist traffic could have made it work in the 1980's. At that time, none of the mega resorts had been built yet, and most of their business actually came from the LA area. Of course, at that time the Indian Reservations at most had bingo parlors and that was it. And a few "Poker Clubs" in LA.

Now however, there are Indian Casinos all over the state, and some poker clubs rival those of Vegas 40 years ago. And with the mega resorts, more and more travel goes there from long distance tourists, not the more local ones. I remember driving to Vegas in the mid-1980's, and it was a nightmare. It is actually less of a problem now, as more fly there than drive now. With the mega resorts, it has become more "kid friendly", so many families pick going there instead of Disneyland.

But there are local lines all over LA that could use an improvement. But those are lines already seeing 1 million plus riders a year, and they only intended on concentrating on those lines. But as lines came up for their 20 year or so replacements, upgrade them to high speed rail so they could just add the trains later if needed.

The original plan for the state system was to do just that, HSR to Sacramento, then the Capitol Corridor HSR to San Francisco. But the Governor did not like that, he wanted LA-SF only. Even those of us that like the idea think this is retarded, and will never work. There is just not enough of a demand through the Central Valley for this, nor for a route from SF to LA.

Yes, Acela goes from Boston to Washington, but relatively few actually take it from end to end. Most take much shorter segments, like Boston-NY, NY-Philly, or the like. And once you get outside of LA, there is really nothing anybody wants to see until SF.

Hey honey, let's go take the new bullet train! I always wanted to see Bakersfield! We can even catch a show at the Buck Owens Cristal Palace! Or we can go to Fresno, and take the bus to Oakhurst and see the Talking Bear!

At least if they had tried to do it up the Coastal Route, there would have been things that people would have actually wanted to go to. San Louis Obispo, Santa Barbara, Moro Bay, Pismo Beach, Hearst Castle, things that people would have actually taken it for for tourism if nothing else. The Central Valley is literally the "Fly-Over Area" of the state. We only go through it because we have to if we want to go somewhere else. There is nothing there of interest.

Then you have the other issue, the weather. Many may not know this, but the Central Valley can often get hurricane force winds. And every decade or so they get killer dust storms. I have a feeling that many times that route will be down because of that. If anything, it should have been built closer to the mountains to mitigate that issue. But this is not a real system, it is a huge vanity project.

 

[Blues Man]

People hate trains more

Where ?
View attachment 507391

Everywhere in the US

 

[the other mike]

And once again, you go completely off the rails and just make garbage up.

Japan has had them since the 1960's.

You all really need to learn how to do research, and not just make crap up all the time.

Hey.
I thought it was the 90's
asshole. Excuuuuuse me.

Shinkansen - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Dusty]

You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.

We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?

Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?

It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?

Yes, it will.

Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.

That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles. And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.

This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down. Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi. Heck, remember when it was first announced? The Internet does not forget.

The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​

• Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
• Total Current Cost: $52-million
• Travel Speed: 155 mph
• Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour
• Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
• Projected Stops: McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.

How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas

A Las Vegas City Council meeting declared that the Loop would use autonomous Tesla vehicles that will run north under Las Vegas Boulevard.

vegasexperience.com

155 miles per hour! 4,000 passengers per hour! The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world! Completely autonomous vehicles!

Uhhh, no. It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.

This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism. It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, it still does not exist.

It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.

buuuut the train doesn't even go from LA to San Fran, it goes from Lancaster/Palmdale, to Tracy CA. So, 65 miles away from LA. And almost 80 miles from SF. Like I said, from nowhere, TO nowhere.

Actually, they don't even know how to get it to Palmdale.

As I have said many times, I have been watching this for decades. And for the train to get into the LA area, it has to overcome a huge obstacle. And that is traversing the Tehachapi Mountains. There is no way to avoid that, you must go over them. And they still have absolutely no plan on how they are going to do it. In other words, it will never even get past Bakersfield.

In California, there are only 2 ways to take a train from North to South. The one used by passenger trains is the "Coastal Route", which the Surfliner does. It hugs the ocean for most of the trip, never going very far above sea level. That is why the first major transit route followed the old Spanish Trail, then US 101. This is the same route that passenger trains take.

But then, there is still a problem getting from there to the Central Valley. Why do you think I have been mentioning "topography" so damned often? It is not because I like the word, it is because I am really aware of the topography of California, and what exactly that means for trains. No matter what, to get in and out of LA and the San Francisco area you need to cross mountain ranges (most times 2 or more). This can not be avoided, and it is just as much of an engineering challenge today as it was 150 years ago.

Now the Coastal Route is the only way passenger trains take. The other route is the "Tehachapi Loop".

And it is exactly what it sounds and looks like. A long, snaking train route at the summit of the pass so that trains can traverse it. But not passenger trains, they only take it when the coastal route is closed for repairs or maintenance. The max speed of the Loop is 35 miles per hour. And it is heavily traveled by freight trains, so is never used for passenger ones unless there is no other choice.

And from when they first started this project, my main question has always been the same one. "How are they going to take this train into the LA basin?" And over a decade later, there is still no solution. The closest one I heard so far basically involved condemning and destroying most of the city of Tehachapi (including the Hospital and High School), and building it there. Well, obviously that will never happen. And other than that, there is still no plan on how to get it the rest of the way to LA.

Now the part from the Antelope Valley to LA is not that big of a deal really. There is only a single low pass to get through (around Acton), and there is already existing tracks that can be upgraded to support 100 mph trains. Studies been done there long ago, back when the plan was for much of the Metrolink had that as a long term goal. But here is the thing, prior to Moonbeam taking it over, that was what they had been discussing in areas like LA and Sacramento for decades. Not a unified "Bullet Train" system like is normally seen in the world, but selectively upgrading existing lines that could support trains from 100-150 mph with that as demand called for it.

In the 1990's, LA Metrolink released a map of all their proposals, with a timeframe of like 50 years. Mostly trains with a speed of 100 mph, to go to and from selected outlying areas as a way to decrease the congestion that was already a problem. But one line at a time, starting with the ones that had the most ridership, but was already capping out because most were capped at 55-60 mph because of other factors (the trains themselves and the tracks). But never upgrading all of them, just the ones that were showing that they had the demand.

And also as a disaster system. This has been shown in California at least three times in the last 50 years. The 1971, 1989, and 1994 earthquakes devastated parts of that state, and in all three, trains were the only way to get around for months (or years). The I-5/California 14 interchange was completely destroyed twice, and at that time the Palmdale Metrolink route was only a proposal. They had it running within a week, and ridership has only grown over the decades.

But the problem is that people do not understand that the solution does not have to be what some propose, and a huge monolithic single purpose system. It can be done in segments, and not even with the idea of tying them all together into a single system. We sure as hell never built any of our other infrastructure that way, why should it be done this time?

Again bullet trains are impossible from the standpoint of moving people. Sure the yare technically feasible but they are logistically impossible because too many rails would need to be built. However if you want to bust your piggy bank go ahead

What is a "bullet train"? Do you even know what it is?

I think the biggest problem is that you really have no idea what "High Speed Rail" is.

Here is the amazing thing, as much as you are screaming that it will never work, we have been using it in the US for over 20 years!

The "Acela Express" is the line that runs from Boston to New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and DC. Average speed of 150 mph, over 450 miles of track, and carries over 3.5 million passengers per year.

You really have no idea what is even being discussed. I have especially been laughing as for ages you have been screaming it would "never work in the US", completely oblivious it has already been in place for decades.

The "BosWash Corridor" is the only place where population density and traffic patterns make a high speed rail system profitable. The distances are too short for efficient air travel, and there is a LOT of traffic up and down it. Sacramento to SF is similar due to commuter traffic as most people who work in SF can't afford to live there. But you've got to cross that pesky San Francisco Bay on the Bay Bridge.

Not at all. It drops the passengers off at Pershing Square (Oakland), where they use the existing subway system to finish the travel. Or some just hop on the cross-bay ferry if they are working near the Ferry Terminal.

Kind of like the NY line.

And much of that travel is also the reverse, people living in SF but working in Sacramento, especially lobbyists and lawyers.

It is not a bullet train or hyperloop though, is it shroom?

You are very confused

 

[Dusty]

And once again, you go completely off the rails and just make garbage up.

Japan has had them since the 1960's.

You all really need to learn how to do research, and not just make crap up all the time.

Hey.
I thought it was the 90's
asshole. Excuuuuuse me.

Shinkansen - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Again the USA does not have bullet trains because the tracks cost billions per mile and the gates would have to come down on crossings 5 to 10 miles before the train crossed the road at 300 mph and when there was an accident the body would come to rest 50 miles up the track


Can't happen here, but you invest it all now, ride the train to the poor house

 

[Dusty]

You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.

We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?

Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?

It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?

Yes, it will.

Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.

That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles. And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.

This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down. Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi. Heck, remember when it was first announced? The Internet does not forget.

The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​

• Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
• Total Current Cost: $52-million
• Travel Speed: 155 mph
• Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour
• Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
• Projected Stops: McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.

How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas

A Las Vegas City Council meeting declared that the Loop would use autonomous Tesla vehicles that will run north under Las Vegas Boulevard.

vegasexperience.com

155 miles per hour! 4,000 passengers per hour! The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world! Completely autonomous vehicles!

Uhhh, no. It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.

This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism. It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, it still does not exist.

It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.

buuuut the train doesn't even go from LA to San Fran, it goes from Lancaster/Palmdale, to Tracy CA. So, 65 miles away from LA. And almost 80 miles from SF. Like I said, from nowhere, TO nowhere.

Actually, they don't even know how to get it to Palmdale.

As I have said many times, I have been watching this for decades. And for the train to get into the LA area, it has to overcome a huge obstacle. And that is traversing the Tehachapi Mountains. There is no way to avoid that, you must go over them. And they still have absolutely no plan on how they are going to do it. In other words, it will never even get past Bakersfield.

In California, there are only 2 ways to take a train from North to South. The one used by passenger trains is the "Coastal Route", which the Surfliner does. It hugs the ocean for most of the trip, never going very far above sea level. That is why the first major transit route followed the old Spanish Trail, then US 101. This is the same route that passenger trains take.

But then, there is still a problem getting from there to the Central Valley. Why do you think I have been mentioning "topography" so damned often? It is not because I like the word, it is because I am really aware of the topography of California, and what exactly that means for trains. No matter what, to get in and out of LA and the San Francisco area you need to cross mountain ranges (most times 2 or more). This can not be avoided, and it is just as much of an engineering challenge today as it was 150 years ago.

Now the Coastal Route is the only way passenger trains take. The other route is the "Tehachapi Loop".

And it is exactly what it sounds and looks like. A long, snaking train route at the summit of the pass so that trains can traverse it. But not passenger trains, they only take it when the coastal route is closed for repairs or maintenance. The max speed of the Loop is 35 miles per hour. And it is heavily traveled by freight trains, so is never used for passenger ones unless there is no other choice.

And from when they first started this project, my main question has always been the same one. "How are they going to take this train into the LA basin?" And over a decade later, there is still no solution. The closest one I heard so far basically involved condemning and destroying most of the city of Tehachapi (including the Hospital and High School), and building it there. Well, obviously that will never happen. And other than that, there is still no plan on how to get it the rest of the way to LA.

Now the part from the Antelope Valley to LA is not that big of a deal really. There is only a single low pass to get through (around Acton), and there is already existing tracks that can be upgraded to support 100 mph trains. Studies been done there long ago, back when the plan was for much of the Metrolink had that as a long term goal. But here is the thing, prior to Moonbeam taking it over, that was what they had been discussing in areas like LA and Sacramento for decades. Not a unified "Bullet Train" system like is normally seen in the world, but selectively upgrading existing lines that could support trains from 100-150 mph with that as demand called for it.

In the 1990's, LA Metrolink released a map of all their proposals, with a timeframe of like 50 years. Mostly trains with a speed of 100 mph, to go to and from selected outlying areas as a way to decrease the congestion that was already a problem. But one line at a time, starting with the ones that had the most ridership, but was already capping out because most were capped at 55-60 mph because of other factors (the trains themselves and the tracks). But never upgrading all of them, just the ones that were showing that they had the demand.

And also as a disaster system. This has been shown in California at least three times in the last 50 years. The 1971, 1989, and 1994 earthquakes devastated parts of that state, and in all three, trains were the only way to get around for months (or years). The I-5/California 14 interchange was completely destroyed twice, and at that time the Palmdale Metrolink route was only a proposal. They had it running within a week, and ridership has only grown over the decades.

But the problem is that people do not understand that the solution does not have to be what some propose, and a huge monolithic single purpose system. It can be done in segments, and not even with the idea of tying them all together into a single system. We sure as hell never built any of our other infrastructure that way, why should it be done this time?

Again bullet trains are impossible from the standpoint of moving people. Sure the yare technically feasible but they are logistically impossible because too many rails would need to be built. However if you want to bust your piggy bank go ahead

What is a "bullet train"? Do you even know what it is?

I think the biggest problem is that you really have no idea what "High Speed Rail" is.

Here is the amazing thing, as much as you are screaming that it will never work, we have been using it in the US for over 20 years!

The "Acela Express" is the line that runs from Boston to New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and DC. Average speed of 150 mph, over 450 miles of track, and carries over 3.5 million passengers per year.

You really have no idea what is even being discussed. I have especially been laughing as for ages you have been screaming it would "never work in the US", completely oblivious it has already been in place for decades.

The "BosWash Corridor" is the only place where population density and traffic patterns make a high speed rail system profitable. The distances are too short for efficient air travel, and there is a LOT of traffic up and down it. Sacramento to SF is similar due to commuter traffic as most people who work in SF can't afford to live there. But you've got to cross that pesky San Francisco Bay on the Bay Bridge. The old bridge was designed for train traffic, the new one isn't and can only be modified by giving up traffic lanes and even then can only carry light rail like interurban trains. The way they HOPE California High Speed rail will work would be MetroRail from downtown Los Angeles to Palmdale, change trains to high speed rail (after they figure how to get across or under the Tehachapi Mountain Range) or a conventional slow speed rail train to Bakersfield with possibly another train change for the high speed run up the central valley. A train change to BART in Sacramento. then BART to downtown San Francisco. The total time will be far longer than the existing coastal route.

Actually, I have been following the way they have wanted to do Metrorail for decades.

And they never intended HSR on each line, only on the ones that made the most sense for density. Lines like Simi Valley to LA, Riverside to LA, and the like. The AV was never intended to be a true "bullet train", because the top speed without huge changes is only around 75. But that 75 would still be a 50% improvement over the current 50.

The same with the decades old concept of LA to Vegas. Not many would have used it for commuting (other than entertainers), but the tourist traffic could have made it work in the 1980's. At that time, none of the mega resorts had been built yet, and most of their business actually came from the LA area. Of course, at that time the Indian Reservations at most had bingo parlors and that was it. And a few "Poker Clubs" in LA.

Now however, there are Indian Casinos all over the state, and some poker clubs rival those of Vegas 40 years ago. And with the mega resorts, more and more travel goes there from long distance tourists, not the more local ones. I remember driving to Vegas in the mid-1980's, and it was a nightmare. It is actually less of a problem now, as more fly there than drive now. With the mega resorts, it has become more "kid friendly", so many families pick going there instead of Disneyland.

But there are local lines all over LA that could use an improvement. But those are lines already seeing 1 million plus riders a year, and they only intended on concentrating on those lines. But as lines came up for their 20 year or so replacements, upgrade them to high speed rail so they could just add the trains later if needed.

The original plan for the state system was to do just that, HSR to Sacramento, then the Capitol Corridor HSR to San Francisco. But the Governor did not like that, he wanted LA-SF only. Even those of us that like the idea think this is retarded, and will never work. There is just not enough of a demand through the Central Valley for this, nor for a route from SF to LA.

Yes, Acela goes from Boston to Washington, but relatively few actually take it from end to end. Most take much shorter segments, like Boston-NY, NY-Philly, or the like. And once you get outside of LA, there is really nothing anybody wants to see until SF.

Hey honey, let's go take the new bullet train! I always wanted to see Bakersfield! We can even catch a show at the Buck Owens Cristal Palace! Or we can go to Fresno, and take the bus to Oakhurst and see the Talking Bear!

At least if they had tried to do it up the Coastal Route, there would have been things that people would have actually wanted to go to. San Louis Obispo, Santa Barbara, Moro Bay, Pismo Beach, Hearst Castle, things that people would have actually taken it for for tourism if nothing else. The Central Valley is literally the "Fly-Over Area" of the state. We only go through it because we have to if we want to go somewhere else. There is nothing there of interest.

Then you have the other issue, the weather. Many may not know this, but the Central Valley can often get hurricane force winds. And every decade or so they get killer dust storms. I have a feeling that many times that route will be down because of that. If anything, it should have been built closer to the mountains to mitigate that issue. But this is not a real system, it is a huge vanity project.

Has it ever occurred to you that you are following bullet trains that do not exist for decades and that you are likely an obsessive compulsive train fanatic that does not care if a track cost a trillion dollars to build so that a few hundred can ride? You might want to lie back on a couch and explain this to Siggy

 

[the other mike]

You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.

We build a lot of things that aren't needed. The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?

Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?

It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?

Yes, it will. Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco. That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles. And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades. This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down. Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi. Heck, remember when it was first announced? The Internet does not forget.

The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​

• Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
• Total Current Cost: $52-million
• Travel Speed: 155 mph
• Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour
• Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
• Projected Stops: McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.

How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas

A Las Vegas City Council meeting declared that the Loop would use autonomous Tesla vehicles that will run north under Las Vegas Boulevard.

vegasexperience.com

155 miles per hour! 4,000 passengers per hour! The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world! Completely autonomous vehicles! Uhhh, no. It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time. This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism. It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, it still does not exist. It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.

California was the worst place to attempt it. The first high speed line should run between Dallas and San Antonio. Logistically it can be done more easily and affordably in open terrain than say DC to Boston or SF to San Diego. Gasoline is $6 (US) a gallon in Europe and before long it will be that much here and probably $10 there.

Why? There isn't enough traffic to support that. The only place where a bullet train has a chance is along the NY to DC line. No other place in the USA can support it. And right now, thanks to the covid bullshit, and the exodus from NY, even that line is no longer supportable. Just because you can build something, doesn't mean you SHOULD build something.

True. Chicago to NYC too. Keeping in mind, these ideas should have been implemented decades ago, when it was more feasible--many routes could have been constructed alongside new Interstates, etc....Japan's had them since the 90's.

And once again, you go completely off the rails and just make garbage up. Japan has had them since the 1960's. You all really need to learn how to do research, and not just make crap up all the time.

The Japanese eat live squid too, knock yourself out, they also club baby dolphins to death because they eat the squid. Got that slant eyes

 

[Dusty]

You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.

We build a lot of things that aren't needed. The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?

Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?

It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?

Yes, it will. Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco. That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles. And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades. This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down. Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi. Heck, remember when it was first announced? The Internet does not forget.

The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​

• Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
• Total Current Cost: $52-million
• Travel Speed: 155 mph
• Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour
• Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
• Projected Stops: McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.

How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas

A Las Vegas City Council meeting declared that the Loop would use autonomous Tesla vehicles that will run north under Las Vegas Boulevard.

vegasexperience.com

155 miles per hour! 4,000 passengers per hour! The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world! Completely autonomous vehicles! Uhhh, no. It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time. This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism. It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, it still does not exist. It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.

California was the worst place to attempt it. The first high speed line should run between Dallas and San Antonio. Logistically it can be done more easily and affordably in open terrain than say DC to Boston or SF to San Diego. Gasoline is $6 (US) a gallon in Europe and before long it will be that much here and probably $10 there.

Why? There isn't enough traffic to support that. The only place where a bullet train has a chance is along the NY to DC line. No other place in the USA can support it. And right now, thanks to the covid bullshit, and the exodus from NY, even that line is no longer supportable. Just because you can build something, doesn't mean you SHOULD build something.

True. Chicago to NYC too. Keeping in mind, these ideas should have been implemented decades ago, when it was more feasible--many routes could have been constructed alongside new Interstates, etc....Japan's had them since the 90's.

And once again, you go completely off the rails and just make garbage up. Japan has had them since the 1960's. You all really need to learn how to do research, and not just make crap up all the time.

The Japanese eat live squid too, knock yourself out, they also club baby dolphins to death because they eat the squid. Got that slant eyes

Another bright comment

 

[the other mike]

Frannie is trolling himself now ....lol.

 

[the other mike]