The war on terror is lost

Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by puurpaul, May 11, 2004.

  1. puurpaul
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    By the publication of the abuse pictures, you have lost any moral high ground you thought you may have had. For those who hate the USA, this justifies their hatred, and for those that didnt hate you, well it gives them just cause. Iraq should now be handed over to the UN immediately, the US has overstayed their welcome, they have abused their position, and have lost respect from the rest of the world - for whom the war on terror is supposed to protect, its time to go.
     
  2. SpidermanTuba
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    I think you're overreacting. While I agree Iraq should be handed over to the UN, I believed that before this scandal came out.

    Read your history book, there are atrocities committed in every war by both sides. The mere fact that this has happened does not make us any worse than anyone else, what matters is how we deal with it. In other countries, knowledge that this has happened would have never come to light. In the Soviet Union, or in Iran, or (to use an overused example to satisfy the neocons) in a Hussein controlled Iraq, the media can't just talk about how the government is torturing people, and anyone who leaked such information would be killed. What makes us different is we have a system by which when atrocities such as this occur, those responsible for it can and will be brought to justice and, much to this disappointment of many conservatives, the full extent of the atrocities can be eventually known to the public.

    Honestly, I hate to say it because so many conservatives have falsely accused me of this, but you are just looking for a good reason to hate America. Nice try.



    (Conservative warmongering Shrub lovers: Fire away, he's all yours now!)
     
  3. puurpaul
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    Sorry but that is so weak, you are only saying this because you hate america. What a load of crap. I dont at all. This is a typical knee-jerk blinkered american response.

    Atrocities do happen in every war, women get raped, people get tortured, kids get killed, towns get destroyed. Even in Vietnam you were doing worse. But this isnt about any other war, this is about nowand the big difference now is that it is being filmed and broadcast to the world. the reason you went to war in Iraq was because you had taken the moral high ground that Saddam Hussein was a bad man and had to go. These pictures really show you to be exactly of the same stock. It seems america lied about the weapons of mass destruction, and they also lied about their way being better than that of saddam. If you dont yet see the magnitude of the problem I think that is because you are blinkered. Every time the US goes on about a war on this or a war on that, every time in the future your nation decides to play gods world cop these pictures will come back to haunt you. They disgust me and everyone I know.
     
  4. jimnyc
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    First off, there were over 200,000 soldiers in Iraq. Yes, some have committed crimes and will be tried and likely severely punished for those crimes. To imply that all of America is just like Saddam was is ridiculous.

    Secondly, I defy you to find any lies. Both George Bush and Blair reported to their respective countries on intel that was gathered throughout the world. It appears thus far that this intel was obviously faulty. That hardly makes their words lies.
     
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    16 words in the State of the Union address - you know what I'm talking about.
     
  6. jimnyc
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    And again, I doubt you can prove what GWB spoke was a lie. If anything, there was poor communication between the CIA and upper elements of the government. GWB reads speeches that were written for him and reports what he was told. I highly doubt he was responsible for the intel provided.
     
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    It's obvious to me you hate america, you refuse to recognize the difference between a system where atrocities are covered up and never found out by the populace and a system where atrocities are made public and those guilty brought to justice. If you don';t value that difference then you don't value what makes America America and hence hate America. Unlike myself, who merely hates our government, you hate America herself because you apparently think our justice system and freedom of the press is no better than totalitarian justice and state run censored press.

    And to your point about atrocities in previous wars not coming up in the media, is that how you would prefer it? You would prefer that the torture of unarmed Iraqi "detainees" have never been made public?
     
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    I can't prove OJ did it either, but I'm pretty damn sure.

    If GWB doesn't bother to get his facts checked in the most important speech made every year, that's kind of his problem for being a dumb Shrub and/or having idiots working for him.

    So which is it? A lie, or incompetence? Because it has to be one of those two.
     
  9. jimnyc
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    The same could be said for the intel on WMD within Iraq. Since none have been found to date, does that mean it was either a lie or incompetence by GWB? Do we really expect our CIC to micromanage our entire government and military? At some point he has to have some faith in those beneath him. Unfortunately, sometimes they are wrong. To me, the important thing is that he also reported to the nation later that the info provided was false. (regarding Nigeria)
     
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    No, but we do expect our President to actually make sure that the words he is speaking in the only Constitionally required speech are TRUE. That's part of HIS JOB as laid out in the Constitution.


    You never answered my question. Was Shrub lying or just incompetent?
     

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