The war on freedom

[insein]

I think you hit it right on the head - and apparently some of the folks on that board have been hit on the head at least once too often. I think you could register on their board and use a random word generator for your posts and they'd all be oohing and aahing over how wise you were. "Fembot", using another ID is on the board bragging that she "spanked" us with the little cartoon she calls a post in this thread.

After laughing my butt off for the ten minutes it took to scroll through some of the more "colorful" entries, I came away shaking my head at the sad state of public education today. These people need to spend less time researching conspiracy theories and a LOT more time studying the English language.

Or going outside to play or something. Wasting their early teen years on conspiracy theories is going to kill them. When i was 14, all i cared about was playin sports, getting good grades and if the chick in history class liked me. Global politics wasn't even on the radar.

 

[Mr. P]

Or going outside to play or something. Wasting their early teen years on conspiracy theories is going to kill them. When i was 14, all i cared about was playin sports, getting good grades and if the chick in history class liked me. Global politics wasn't even on the radar.

Hey Guys, look at the bright side...If they get this liberal crap out of their system now,
maybe they'll lean Conservative around 25 instead of 30 years old. Just a thought..

On the other hand...some of them are so impressionable it may screw them up for life.
Hummm....On second thought they need to concentrate on being a frustrated teen until the hormones relax a bit...Then join adult conversations...

 

[Merlin1047]

Our friend Daniel, back on the "unknowncountry" board, has now posted that:

The US government is exercising the mind control techniques learned from the nazis after WWII.

The Bush family had connections with Hitler.

Prescott Bush aided Hitler.

That the "illuminati" (read that as Republicans) had Hitler as a role model and loved him because it gave them an excuse to go to war after they "set him up" - whatever that means.

The US will become a pawn of the UN.

We are being used by the devil and are pawns of satan.

Conservatives are satanic and the conservative movement is the anti-Christ. The so-called "shadow government" will be the catalyst for the end times.

I swear, every time I read the crap on that site I get this overwhelming urge to go take a shower.

You reckon Jay Leno might be interested in knowing about stuff like this?

 

[Mr. P]

I think I saw that post Merlin...I think he said that was his last post..he's taking time off
for personal reasons...Good idea..maybe a medication check is over due and in order.

 

[insein]

which doesn't make sense because if hitler was our idol, then where does that put his claim that we're all here to support the jews? This guys is really out there.

 

[lilcountriegal]

Which one do you like best? Post it here...

I'd have to poke around it again, but one thing is the Pentagon. I would think the "hole" in the building should have been bigger. The best question tho is about the wreckage from the airplane, or lack thereof.

 

[Mr. P]

I'd have to poke around it again, but one thing is the Pentagon. I would think the "hole" in the building should have been bigger. The best question tho is about the wreckage from the airplane, or lack thereof.

I'll tell you this, I've seen the remains of several aircraft after a crash and depending on some variables, many times there is nothing that comes close to resembling a aircraft. Why? Because aircraft are not built like tanks. If an aircraft impacts a concrete structure at high speed, as AA Flt. 77 did (420 knots, I believe it was ), it pretty much disintegrates.

I also remember I saw aircraft parts that morning in the coverage...Landing gear, part of the tail section..some seats...

How about an eye witness?
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,247236,00.asp?kc=EWNKT0209KTX1K0100440

Go poke around..Let me know what you find that bothers you.

 

[Zhukov]

I'd have to poke around it again, but one thing is the Pentagon. I would think the "hole" in the building should have been bigger. The best question tho is about the wreckage from the airplane, or lack thereof.

There are some who believe the aircraft hit the ground immeadiately in front of the Pentagon first, losing a great deal of force and structural integrity, and the exploding wreckage then crashed into the recently reinforced exterior facade of Pentagon. That would produce a decidely different impact crater in the building than had the plane hit dead on, as conspiracy theory questions concerning the width of the hole seem to imply.

The Pentagon is only a five story building. Consider that when thinking about the vertical angle of flight a commericial airliner would need to hit it.

And finally, and most obviously, if they were just trying to make it look like a plane hit it, a.) they'd probably go to the relatively insignificant trouble of actually flying an appropriately sized plane into it, or b.) they'd detonate explosives to make it look right.

 

[lilcountriegal]

I poked around those sites all afternoon... the more I read, the more I think these people who dream these things up are nuts. I never believed the conspiracy theories, however, things like that fascinate me. These people are just plain loony. I still think there should have been more debris around the Pentagon, but I by no means believe the government shot a missle at itself.

Now that I've completely wasted my afternoon going over these websites, I feel like popping some aspirin.

 

[Merlin1047]

I poked around those sites all afternoon... the more I read, the more I think these people who dream these things up are nuts. I never believed the conspiracy theories, however, things like that fascinate me. These people are just plain loony. I still think there should have been more debris around the Pentagon, but I by no means believe the government shot a missle at itself.

Now that I've completely wasted my afternoon going over these websites, I feel like popping some aspirin.

Keep in mind that an airliner with enough fuel on board to fill your average sized home swimming pool penetrated the building. If I remember the details correctly, I believe it took about three days for the fire in the Pentagon to be put out. I would expect that the only remaining debris that was recognizable as once having been an airplane would be the engines and perhaps parts of the landing gear. The remainder was either vaporized on impact, consumed by the post-crash fire, or mixed with the debris of the building itself.

Now, of course you could speculate that the fire department was in on the conspiracy and was intentionally slow in dousing the flames in order to assure that all evidence was destroyed. :shocked:

P.S. If you want to have a little fun, feel free to speculate on the unknown country board about the fire department taking 3 days to put out the fire. That should keep them buzzing for a while. It will also aid them in maintaining their air of superiority over us "sheep". Baaaaahhh.

 

[lilcountriegal]

No thanks Merlin, I'll pass on posting over there. My "home" is here and I'd rather not go down that avenue lol.

However, I can see them all lurking over here... when there's 10 guests on the board and half of them are viewing this thread, you know they're filtering over here.

One question I would like to ask them (maybe Daniel could answer it...) Most conspiracy theorists (and the ones Daniel linked to) believe that the planes were substituted and that one of them (I think Flight 77) wasnt documented taking off. There was even speculation that the planes were "switched" for cargo type planes when the terrorists shut off the transistor box (or whatever it was). My question for them:

If the planes were actually switched, where did the real flight end up and all the people on board?

 

[nbdysfu]

Well of course the republican minions sacrificed them to their alien overlords in return for four more years of mind control bombardment to keep all us sheep sheeples. =:sausage:

 

[Mr. P]

... My question for them:

If the planes were actually switched, where did the real flight end up and all the people on board?

You learn fast...if they answer, it most likely will be in the form of a question to your question...Why? because you just asked a question "they" can't answer, not with any proof to back them up anyway. Good Job!

 

[lilcountriegal]

Well of course the republican minions sacrificed them to their alien overlords in return for four more years of mind control bombardment to keep all us sheep sheeples. =:sausage:

orrrrrrrrr they're in Kokomo sipping on Margaritas with Elvis and Princess Di.

 

[Annie]

orrrrrrrrr they're in Kokomo sipping on Margaritas with Elvis and Princess Di.

And I was wondering when and where I could post this:

http://www.strategypage.com/bookreviews/230.asp

Emergency Sex and Other Desperate Measures: A True Story of Hell on Earth , by Kenneth Cain, Heidi Postlewait, and Andrew Thomson

New York: Miramax Books 2004. 308 pages. . Hardcover, $25.95 . ISBN:1401352014.


Emergency Sex and Other Desperate Measures is a memoir of UN peacekeeping by three civilians who served in numerous trouble spots in the 1990s, including Rwanda, Somalia, Bosnia, and others besides. It is also a record of UN failure, corruption, and cynicism, and reading it one can easily understand why the UN tried hard to prevent its publication.

Kenneth Cain and Heidi Postlewait were twentysomething Americans who joined the United Nations in the early 90s full of idealism and a desire to do good. The Cold War was over, the Clinton Administration was in power, and the New World Order was at hand. They were sent to Cambodia in 1993 to monitor elections. There they met Andrew Thomson, a doctor from New Zealand who had already spent a good deal of time in country doing humanitarian work . The three of them struck up an enduring friendship, and together they set about trying to bring democracy to what had been the Killing Fields.

The authors clearly believed in what they were doing, but they frequently come across as shallow and a bit full of themselves. They spend as much time describing the parties they attended and the restaurants they frequented as the problems of the countries in which they served. Postlewait, in particular, is given to recounting her sexual adventures with the locals wherever she was posted. (The book’s title refers to her seeking “emergency sex” from a Saudi interpreter behind a building in Mogadishu.) The social scene in Cambodia was certainly heady enough for the UN staff, who spent a great deal of time drinking mango daiquiris, smoking pot, and partying with attractive twentysomething UN staffers from all over the world. The juxtaposition of the endless partying and stylish living against the background of local tragedy, violence, and squalor is jarring, and recurs throughout the book. At times, Emergency Sex feels like an uneasy hybrid of MTV’s The Real World and Apocalypse Now.

...

In countries ruled by warlords, such as Somalia, Liberia, and Bosnia, there could be no peace without the sword. And the UN had no sword. The American withdrawal from Mogadishu served notice that it was open season on Americans, the UN, and anyone foolish enough to take their promises seriously. The authors are scathing in their denunciation of the Clinton Administration for retreating in the face of the Somali militia. They recount in detail the consequences for thousands of people who had put their faith in the UN’s protection. These included the Muslims of Srebrenica, who were massacred when Dutch peacekeepers stood aside to let the Serb butchers do their work, Haitian victims of political violence who had given statements against their torturers and were exposed to reprisals when a US Navy warship retreated in the face of a Haitian mob, and many others besides.

In Liberia, the unwillingness of any civilized nation to provide soldiers forced the UN to contract for Nigerian troops to perform peacekeeping duties. These troops paid nine year old Liberian girls a handful of rice for sex, and then began to murder them when they started selling their favors to a Ghanaian contingent that offered more rice. With no disciplined soldiers, the UN was helpless in the face of thugs with nicknames like General War Boss and General Kill the Bitch.

Emergency Sex also deals with the subject of UN corruption. One UN ambassador in Liberia was removed for taking fifteen percent kickbacks on everything the UN purchased. His successor tapped the phones, began sexually harassing vulnerable secretaries, and continued taking the same kickbacks. One thing that this book makes clear is that even with more military clout, the effectiveness of the UN would still be hampered by the low caliber of the people it employs.

....

 

[EdwinJayMorgan]

If the planes were actually switched, where did the real flight end up and all the people on board?

The flights were "switched" on paper by United Employees making errors. Flt. 93 did end up in Pennsylvania, y'know. I've seen the rubble.

I've also seen the burning fuselage of Flt. 77 at the Pentagon. The small hole in the pentagon was likely caused by one of the jet engines, because the fuselage was at the section of major collapse (with the fallen roof).

And as far as the planes going into the WTC looking like cargo planes? On the very morning of Sept. 11th I saw what looked like a cargo jet driven by a kamikaze pilot into the No. 2 Tower, but that was only because the camera was facing south and one cannot see the windows on the north side of a plane in broad daylight, sometimes.

But what was the Government was doing that day?...

 

[EdwinJayMorgan]

There are plenty of bonafide conservative groups that do believe that there is a war on freedom in this country... and it's not just the Bush Administration that benefits...

Rutherford Institute Links

Commentary on the Gulag underneath an Elevated Subway in the Cradle of Liberty

Shame on Kerry! This went on right outside the DNC and nobody said anything about it on national TV! Unfortunately, the Republicans are going to pull the same totalitarian garbage up in New York City...

Operation Eroding Freedom

You, too, could be a suspected terrorist!

Analysis of the Patriot Act I

Short Analysis of the Patriot Act II

Did you know that had Patriot Act II passed, any native-born US citizen could have been stripped of his citizenship and thrown into a prison cell or internment camp like an illegal alien and left there to rot... or worse be tortured, like this? (See comments on Section 501 in the above link)

Trying to Enact Patriot Act II Bit by Bit in Secret

The chief reason Patriot Act II went down last year was because it was too much of a power grab at once. Now the administration is trying to sneak it through Congress, in pieces! We must be ever vigilant...

Nat'l Rifle Ass'n Comments

Phyllis Schlafly's (Eagle Forum) Comments

This is good: "We can have security and civil liberties in a time of crisis. The Fourth Amendment is one of our most precious constitutional rights, and we will not hand it over to the terrorists. Proposals that give the federal government unprecedented police power to snoop and spy on law-abiding citizens must be rejected. We do not want an American society where everyone is treated as a terrorist, money launderer, drug trafficker, or criminal. Only totalitarian regimes monitor the private actions of law-abiding citizens." -Phyllis Schlafly

And from the ACLU... (yes, they're liberal, but they can be a good resource)

Conservatives against Patriot Act I

Conservatives against Patriot Act II

Conservatives' Comments on Ashcroft's Greed for Power

Gag Orders and Secret Evidence

Text of Patriot Act I

 

[budboomer]

Some more questions to ask...

I have the Wizard of OZ sitting right next to me right now, Daniel. He knows all. He never heard of you.

 

[Comrade]

There are plenty of bonafide conservative groups that do believe that there is a war on freedom in this country... and it's not just the Bush Administration that benefits...

So which are bonafide conservative links? The Rutherford Institute Links
(ie. home page based on "The rich who rule us") or the ACLU or what?

Specifically how does Bush benefit from the Patriot act? Did you wonder why F-911 was shown in the theaters after all? And while 'Unfit for Command' was taken off the shelves Joe Wilson's book against Bush remains even after his actual testimony to congress proved his own book lied about the details?

What is the problem with actual specific examples to prove a point?

And plus it's extremely difficult for one to review so many links without you being specific about what points are relevent. You can't possibly expect anyone to go through and address them all.

I'll humour you and do a few samples, though.

Commentary on the Gulag underneath an Elevated Subway in the Cradle of Liberty

Within the last decade, especially in light of the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing and the 9/11 tragedy, the United States has begun looking more and more like a police state. The fact is that the American police force has been militarized. Dressed like Darth Vader look-alikes, the police have opted for the SWAT-team dress formally adopted by the federal agencies. Indeed, photographs and television footage of the black storm trooper police currently guarding New York City in anticipation of the Republican National Convention illustrates how far we have come.

So a 'police state' is based on how the police dress now? How about when the national guard actually shot college students in the 60's? How have we gone downhill from there? Dressing in Vader looking costumes? Despite the fact that we're really dealing with terrorist attacks on our own soil, and radical anarchists who plan to intentionally disrupt security, alongside thousands of protestors, who, by the way, were welcomed by Bloomberg and offered discounts to many venues in NYC, what in particular is oppressive about preparing for what we cannot deny as very real and deadly security issues?

This is pretty severe propaganda. Especially when the color coded alerts get blamed for not informing authorities who are expected to react to threats, but instead seem to subdue Americans. What is supposed to strike fear in the masses of ignorant sheep is obviously as joke to many of those who claim that is the motive. What about fire alarms, are they oppressive as well?

You should realize that without any warnings and alerts, which is apparently the non-oppressive thing to do, the author would just as easily shift his tirade to claim that we are now being kept in the dark and intentionally left out of what an open society should expect from it's leaders. Which of course, is exactly the complaint from the same leftists following 9-11. Clearly the only right way to do this is the opposite from what Bush is doing.

He'll always dig at YOUR base paranoia and fears. The immense contradiction about his claims of an oppressive government flies in the face of his same continuing tirade against it.

I believe you are trying to be well informed but you are certainly not being 'brave' in any sense of the word. Live in China, or especially North Korea, and post in this same manner, and then reap the whirlwind, buddy.

Then you'll understand what a totalitarian state is all about.

Shame on Kerry! This went on right outside the DNC and nobody said anything about it on national TV! Unfortunately, the Republicans are going to pull the same totalitarian garbage up in New York City...

Totalitarian states don't allow protests against them, period.

They also don't let the media film these protests, and neither would it be clear as we have heard time and again from our own media, that somehow they were chained and imprisoned for what is simply a restriction from actually going into the convention, disrupting the events there, screaming and yelling and basically going well beyond all reasonable guarantees by invading a private venue and usurping the rights of others to control their own affairs in that private venue.

And police states don't let private web administrators run a home page to complain about the government, with a fervour verging on insurrection. And people posting such things are tracked down and made to 'disappear' in any actual police state.

You wouldn't pretend to be so brave and speak out unless you knew that's not going to really get you in trouble with the government. It's kind of dishonest and self-righteous to me, how all the self-proclaimed freedom fighters are screaming about our police state while you are aware there are no real consequences. Any refugee from an honest to god, totatilitarian state, probably thinks of this ranting as a rather foolish and naive thing, considering you will go on your merry way afterwards without a care.

Trying to Enact Patriot Act II Bit by Bit in Secret

The chief reason Patriot Act II went down last year was because it was too much of a power grab at once. Now the administration is trying to sneak it through Congress, in pieces! We must be ever vigilant...

Vigilance is good of course. But unjustified paranoia is not healthy. And since you're trying to manipulate the actual details of this act it's disingenious to me.

It's reflective of your choice to be subject to manipulation, or your choice to try and subject us to it.

In fact, with minimal research beyond these extremist left groups you can quickly realize that nothing 'went down' and that nothing has been 'sneaked' by Congress.

No bill has yet to be introduced to Congress, who is the only authority for passing law in America, and which does so publically and with sole and final authority.



The overly embellished aspects of the 'leaked' document a while ago, doesn't resemble the public final draft, with is detailed partly here:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/03/06/findlaw.analysis.mariner.patriotII/

And while I myself am not a fan of the Patriot Act, nothing among this report is outrageous or unreasonable. And it simply remains a draft, not even particularly tied to Bush, but to certain parties in the Justice Department, all who are career beaurocrats charged with the overwhelming task of protecting both our lives and our freedoms.

And no matter when and if this advances into the House, requiring of course a House member to sponsor the bill, as free citizens we can be the judge of who among our representatives sponsor it and who oppose it.

Then you can vote accordingly, in due time, according to our representative democracy, to either support or vote against those same representatives, assuming the bill is vital to your own political interests. You will still be a single person with a single equal vote in the process. And if that proves insufficient, then tough luck!

Actually there is more to this, especially when the law is challenged by an actual case, and this lawmay or may not be struck as unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, which can happen even after Congress passes it.

The original Patriot Act is still subject to it, in fact, but simply has yet to come up as relative to ones own case. Thereby addressing the complaints listed about the 4th admendment violations you had listed.

Seems like some people hate that process, so much in fact, that they'll go to any lengths to deny its legitimacy.

But the true nature of our representative democracy is one which has a legacy of proving time and again to remain the oldest and most stable democracy in the entire history of the world.

This is a reality this propaganda attempts to discredit out of an agenda, one which demands action against the government, action which it demands as 'legal' against the illegality of our constitutional process. And of course it's backwards. The legality of the process is intact, but the action implied is for illegal change, bypassing the process.

So in the most simple terms, we have a public and open appeal to stop the suppression of this public and open appeal. Which seems a little premature.

 

[Merlin1047]

Did you know that had Patriot Act II passed, any native-born US citizen could have been stripped of his citizenship and thrown into a prison cell or internment camp like an illegal alien and left there to rot... or worse be tortured, like this? (See comments on Section 501 in the above link)

I read as far as this point, then the troll warning horn sounded. I don't know whether to laugh or be insulted that you assume I'm so incredibly stupid that I would believe garbage like this. Look, bud - if you're going to try to blow smoke up my butt, at least put a little thought into it.

:nine: