The United States of Inequality

[ConservativeDad]

Where, in the Constitution, does it guarantee you 'equality' through life? It says 'All men are CREATED equal". Created. Our country is not a country founded on a guarantee of lifelong equality.

Which brings me neatly back to my original comment. Our country is supposed to be run in accordance with our Constitution. If you do not wish to live under that, fucking well leave.

Actually, CG, I've always thought it spoke more to the "equality" of opportunity. That every man was created with the same opportunity to succeed or fail on his own merits.

Take our current president. Where else could a child born under such circumstances as he was ever aspire to become the most powerful man in the country? IMHO, in America alone. Barack Obama is the American dream personified.

Pity his american dream is to destroy the one mentioned above.

 

[B. Kidd]

Why we can't ignore growing income inequality. (1) - By Timothy Noah - Slate Magazine

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/07/opinion/07kristof.html?_r=1


And you shameless monkeys still want tax cuts for the richest 2% to continue ignoring that they already have a substantial amount of the nation's wealth.

So , I guess your solution is to take from those that have and give to those that haven't earned it??

Bullshit dude.

I]We already have that in this country. Its called Welfare.

We can see how well thats worked out.

==================
Well that's a very narrow post!
As I stated in Post 14, your fellow American workers have seen flat wages for the last tens years or so, despite record productivity and good profits. So we aren't addressing the crowd who doesn't want to work, we are addressing the working class.
We aren't talking about welfare here, we are talking about "a fair days wage for a fair days work". Whatever happened to those days? Remember the days of profit sharing?
Now companies are slowly cutting back on benefits. It's whatever yeilds the biggest bottomline, it's called GREED and the concentration of wealth. It's real! As a matter of fact, the US has not experienced a wealth gap this big since just before the Great Depression and we saw how well that worked. When there was a smaller wealth gap, the US economy prospered, when it get larger the country's economy suffers.
My arguement isn't for socialism as a matter of fact (as noted in Post 14), I fighting to preserve our consumer driven, supply and demand capitalistic economy.
It seems that too many folks are letting their ideology override common sense and their own well-being.

Increased polarization is a by-product of worsening economic times, which in turn only makes it more difficult to explore solutions in a civil/logical manner.

 

[kiwiman127]

Why is it the far right doesn't want to address the reality of the record wealth gap? It just doesn't make sense for an ideology that rightfully expounds capitalism
Isn't it true that around 70% of our economy is driven by consumer spending? Isn't also true that the middle class makes up a majority of the consumer class? Isn't it true that despite the fact that productivity has been strong and profts have been good, wages have been flat for the last tens years? Isn't it true that the majority of the middle class have lost expendable income because of flat wages? Exactly how can the US economy driven economy sustain itself if the middle class can't contribute enough to drive our economy? How can a supply and demand scenario work when there is no demand because of limitations of expendable income? Who exactly determines wages, what economic class do they represent?
I've asked this question hundreds of times on various forums and I have yet to see a viable amswers.
If a person believes in capitalism, the wealth gap should be a major long-term concern to them.

You've probably been given the answers dozens of times but since they don't agree with your preconceived notions you dismiss them.
The truth is that the wealthy overwhelmingly got that way by hard work. Their parents were typically middle class people (like Bill Gates).
The middle class has not lost wage. What has happened is we have had an influx of immigrants and others into the work force which skews the numbers. The same people are earning more, but there are more of them.
Who determines wages? How about "the market"? I realize that rubs against the grain of someone who believes in central planning for everything, but there you have it.
I don't know why the "wealth gap" should be of concern. What concerns me are people who use that as an excuse to make sure the rest of us don't get into that wealthy category.

OK, the estimated population of illegals in the US ranges anywhere from 7 to 20 million. Using the highest estimate, that puts them at approximately 6.5% of the US population (est. 307 million in 2009). So using 6.5% (which is high), do you think that number skews the averages for wages and wage growth that much? I mean, how much of their wages are even reported, pending breaking laws?
Who determines wages,,the market. No, it seems to be the bottom-line.
You don't know why the wealth gap should be a concern? As I pointed out, the last time we had a wealth gap this big was just before the the Great Depression. One of the big reasons we had this recession was the credit crunch. More people living check to check, more people using up their credit and going beyond their credit because of the fact what they are making isn't covering their expenses like they did in the past. Less expendable income in other words. With less expendable income, the less they can contribute to the US economy. See where I am going with this?
I think your ideology has made you paranoid. No one trying to stop you at your quest to become wealthy, except for those who are dictating your income as they have been doing to millions of the working middle class.
It's too bad Lou Dobbs isn't still out there letting the middle class know what exactly is happening to them now and in their future. It wasn't that long ago when he did when he had his segments on "The War on the Middle Class" and he spent a lot of time blaming Corporate America and their greed (and to some extent the illegals). And Lou Dobbs is a true capitalist at heart.

 

[LiberalNut]

Give up kiwi. There's no talking sense with these folks. Show them the truth,they will brand you a Bolshevic. Lie to them repeatedly and they will pray to the market God. It's as simple as that. They don't comprehend macro-economics and they don't care to comprehend. They have Limbaugh, hannity and Drudge.

It's easier than thinking.

 

[Revere]

Why is it the far right doesn't want to address the reality of the record wealth gap? It just doesn't make sense for an ideology that rightfully expounds capitalism
Isn't it true that around 70% of our economy is driven by consumer spending? Isn't also true that the middle class makes up a majority of the consumer class? Isn't it true that despite the fact that productivity has been strong and profts have been good, wages have been flat for the last tens years? Isn't it true that the majority of the middle class have lost expendable income because of flat wages? Exactly how can the US economy driven economy sustain itself if the middle class can't contribute enough to drive our economy? How can a supply and demand scenario work when there is no demand because of limitations of expendable income? Who exactly determines wages, what economic class do they represent?
I've asked this question hundreds of times on various forums and I have yet to see a viable amswers.
If a person believes in capitalism, the wealth gap should be a major long-term concern to them.

You've probably been given the answers dozens of times but since they don't agree with your preconceived notions you dismiss them.
The truth is that the wealthy overwhelmingly got that way by hard work. Their parents were typically middle class people (like Bill Gates).
The middle class has not lost wage. What has happened is we have had an influx of immigrants and others into the work force which skews the numbers. The same people are earning more, but there are more of them.
Who determines wages? How about "the market"? I realize that rubs against the grain of someone who believes in central planning for everything, but there you have it.
I don't know why the "wealth gap" should be of concern. What concerns me are people who use that as an excuse to make sure the rest of us don't get into that wealthy category.

OK, the estimated population of illegals in the US ranges anywhere from 7 to 20 million. Using the highest estimate, that puts them at approximately 6.5% of the US population (est. 307 million in 2009). So using 6.5% (which is high), do you think that number skews the averages for wages and wage growth that much? I mean, how much of their wages are even reported, pending breaking laws?
Who determines wages,,the market. No, it seems to be the bottom-line.
You don't know why the wealth gap should be a concern? As I pointed out, the last time we had a wealth gap this big was just before the the Great Depression. One of the big reasons we had this recession was the credit crunch. More people living check to check, more people using up their credit and going beyond their credit because of the fact what they are making isn't covering their expenses like they did in the past. Less expendable income in other words. With less expendable income, the less they can contribute to the US economy. See where I am going with this?
I think your ideology has made you paranoid. No one trying to stop you at your quest to become wealthy, except for those who are dictating your income as they have been doing to millions of the working middle class.
It's too bad Lou Dobbs isn't still out there letting the middle class know what exactly is happening to them now and in their future. It wasn't that long ago when he did when he had his segments on "The War on the Middle Class" and he spent a lot of time blaming Corporate America and their greed (and to some extent the illegals). And Lou Dobbs is a true capitalist at heart.

Do you think there is a difference between a market and a bottom line? In other words, if you have no bottom line, can it be said you have a market? If the participants don't act in self-interest? What kind of market is that?

 

[The Rabbi]

Why is it the far right doesn't want to address the reality of the record wealth gap? It just doesn't make sense for an ideology that rightfully expounds capitalism
Isn't it true that around 70% of our economy is driven by consumer spending? Isn't also true that the middle class makes up a majority of the consumer class? Isn't it true that despite the fact that productivity has been strong and profts have been good, wages have been flat for the last tens years? Isn't it true that the majority of the middle class have lost expendable income because of flat wages? Exactly how can the US economy driven economy sustain itself if the middle class can't contribute enough to drive our economy? How can a supply and demand scenario work when there is no demand because of limitations of expendable income? Who exactly determines wages, what economic class do they represent?
I've asked this question hundreds of times on various forums and I have yet to see a viable amswers.
If a person believes in capitalism, the wealth gap should be a major long-term concern to them.

You've probably been given the answers dozens of times but since they don't agree with your preconceived notions you dismiss them.
The truth is that the wealthy overwhelmingly got that way by hard work. Their parents were typically middle class people (like Bill Gates).
The middle class has not lost wage. What has happened is we have had an influx of immigrants and others into the work force which skews the numbers. The same people are earning more, but there are more of them.
Who determines wages? How about "the market"? I realize that rubs against the grain of someone who believes in central planning for everything, but there you have it.
I don't know why the "wealth gap" should be of concern. What concerns me are people who use that as an excuse to make sure the rest of us don't get into that wealthy category.

OK, the estimated population of illegals in the US ranges anywhere from 7 to 20 million. Using the highest estimate, that puts them at approximately 6.5% of the US population (est. 307 million in 2009). So using 6.5% (which is high), do you think that number skews the averages for wages and wage growth that much? I mean, how much of their wages are even reported, pending breaking laws?
Who determines wages,,the market. No, it seems to be the bottom-line.

WHo said "illegal"? There were over 6M legal immigrants. What is the working population of the U.S? It isn't close to 300M. How many people born here entered the work force during that time? I dunno. But between the two it will skew numbers.
What do you mean "bottom line"? Do you think companies just say "OK, we'll pay $7/hr for this computer design job" when everyone else is paying 14 or 20 or 30 for the same work? You clearly have never hired anyone in your life.

 

[kiwiman127]

You've probably been given the answers dozens of times but since they don't agree with your preconceived notions you dismiss them.
The truth is that the wealthy overwhelmingly got that way by hard work. Their parents were typically middle class people (like Bill Gates).
The middle class has not lost wage. What has happened is we have had an influx of immigrants and others into the work force which skews the numbers. The same people are earning more, but there are more of them.
Who determines wages? How about "the market"? I realize that rubs against the grain of someone who believes in central planning for everything, but there you have it.
I don't know why the "wealth gap" should be of concern. What concerns me are people who use that as an excuse to make sure the rest of us don't get into that wealthy category.

OK, the estimated population of illegals in the US ranges anywhere from 7 to 20 million. Using the highest estimate, that puts them at approximately 6.5% of the US population (est. 307 million in 2009). So using 6.5% (which is high), do you think that number skews the averages for wages and wage growth that much? I mean, how much of their wages are even reported, pending breaking laws?
Who determines wages,,the market. No, it seems to be the bottom-line.
You don't know why the wealth gap should be a concern? As I pointed out, the last time we had a wealth gap this big was just before the the Great Depression. One of the big reasons we had this recession was the credit crunch. More people living check to check, more people using up their credit and going beyond their credit because of the fact what they are making isn't covering their expenses like they did in the past. Less expendable income in other words. With less expendable income, the less they can contribute to the US economy. See where I am going with this?
I think your ideology has made you paranoid. No one trying to stop you at your quest to become wealthy, except for those who are dictating your income as they have been doing to millions of the working middle class.
It's too bad Lou Dobbs isn't still out there letting the middle class know what exactly is happening to them now and in their future. It wasn't that long ago when he did when he had his segments on "The War on the Middle Class" and he spent a lot of time blaming Corporate America and their greed (and to some extent the illegals). And Lou Dobbs is a true capitalist at heart.

Do you think there is a difference between a market and a bottom line? In other words, if you have no bottom line, can it be said you have a market? If the participants don't act in self-interest? What kind of market is that?

Of course there's a difference. Back about 30 years and actually starting in the early 1950's, people were paid for their prodcutivity that help drive profits for their employer. That's when the middle class became a big player in the US economy. The wealth gap was much smaller than it is today and America's economy thrived. One could say that time period was America's Golden Age. The market was the driving force for wages. Then then in the 80's wages growth started going south and it's gotten worse and worse.

 

[Revere]

OK, the estimated population of illegals in the US ranges anywhere from 7 to 20 million. Using the highest estimate, that puts them at approximately 6.5% of the US population (est. 307 million in 2009). So using 6.5% (which is high), do you think that number skews the averages for wages and wage growth that much? I mean, how much of their wages are even reported, pending breaking laws?
Who determines wages,,the market. No, it seems to be the bottom-line.
You don't know why the wealth gap should be a concern? As I pointed out, the last time we had a wealth gap this big was just before the the Great Depression. One of the big reasons we had this recession was the credit crunch. More people living check to check, more people using up their credit and going beyond their credit because of the fact what they are making isn't covering their expenses like they did in the past. Less expendable income in other words. With less expendable income, the less they can contribute to the US economy. See where I am going with this?
I think your ideology has made you paranoid. No one trying to stop you at your quest to become wealthy, except for those who are dictating your income as they have been doing to millions of the working middle class.
It's too bad Lou Dobbs isn't still out there letting the middle class know what exactly is happening to them now and in their future. It wasn't that long ago when he did when he had his segments on "The War on the Middle Class" and he spent a lot of time blaming Corporate America and their greed (and to some extent the illegals). And Lou Dobbs is a true capitalist at heart.

Do you think there is a difference between a market and a bottom line? In other words, if you have no bottom line, can it be said you have a market? If the participants don't act in self-interest? What kind of market is that?

Of course there's a difference. Back about 30 years and actually starting in the early 1950's, people were paid for their prodcutivity that help drive profits for their employer. That's when the middle class became a big player in the US economy. The wealth gap was much smaller than it is today and America's economy thrived. One could say that time period was America's Golden Age. The market was the driving force for wages. Then then in the 80's wages growth started going south and it's gotten worse and worse.

The market does not fail just because it fails to bring one participant gifts.

 

[Jeremy]

To Bracist v 2.0:

IT'S NOT FAIR!!!!​

 

[The T]

Why we can't ignore growing income inequality. (1) - By Timothy Noah - Slate Magazine

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/07/opinion/07kristof.html?_r=1


And you shameless monkeys still want tax cuts for the richest 2% to continue ignoring that they already have a substantial amount of the nation's wealth.

What is stopping anyone from getting ahead in this nation?

Statist Government...and themselves.

Quit yer whining and stop voting for fucking Democrats that don't care a wit of the people they are supposed to serve.

Got it ACE?

 

[kiwiman127]

Do you think there is a difference between a market and a bottom line? In other words, if you have no bottom line, can it be said you have a market? If the participants don't act in self-interest? What kind of market is that?

Of course there's a difference. Back about 30 years and actually starting in the early 1950's, people were paid for their prodcutivity that help drive profits for their employer. That's when the middle class became a big player in the US economy. The wealth gap was much smaller than it is today and America's economy thrived. One could say that time period was America's Golden Age. The market was the driving force for wages. Then then in the 80's wages growth started going south and it's gotten worse and worse.

The market does not fail just because it fails to bring one participant gifts.

Decent wages aren't a gift, particularly when the workers are giving their employer the high productivity that drives their bottlom-line. And that has been happening for decades. So in your mind, the working class is just a bunch of losers with their hands out, despite their productivity and contribution to the profits. Amazing.
I gotta go,,,,I'm losing faith in my fellow Americans and how they portray the working middle class which is the backbone of America!

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

And you shameless monkeys still want tax cuts for the richest 2% to continue ignoring that they already have a substantial amount of the nation's wealth.

It's none of your business what someone else has. End of story.

 

[Avatar4321]

Maybe instead of whining about inequality of income, you ask yourself why?

Why do some people make more money than others?

If someone through their labor and ingenuity makes more money than I do, why should that bother me?

Now if someone makes more money than I do because they work for a bueaucracy that takes my hard earned money to give to them for doing a questionable amount of work, then I am alittle bothered by that. Robbery, whether legalized through politics or not, is a significant thing to be concerned about.

People working hard, taking chances, and reaping the benefits, isn't.

If you believe those 1% are hard working, ingenious people who earned it you're deluded, capitalism has never worked that way for the majority of these people, its a corrupt, bloody, dog eat dog business. Its robbery to take tax cuts for job creation and pocket that money and send jobs and stash money in overseas countries and accounts.

How is it Robbery to keep your own money?

And yes, I believe that through hard work and honesty, you can make quite alot of money.

Just because you are corrupt, doesn't mean everyone else is.

 

[daveman]

How can you dumb monkeys come up with the ad-hominem "class envy" excuse when a super rich 1% has control over a quarter of the country's wealth? If you don't fall up under that 1% what the hell are you yelling class envy for? You'd rather tax cuts go to these people so they can have even more control yet complain and moan about the government taking away from you? What is it that these 1% are doing for *YOU* that is so good that makes you defend and protect them and demonize the government? Think about it again in clear terms you deluded monkeys, 1% owns 25% of the country's wealth, if you advocate for tax cuts for these morons thats going to be less money in the pot for *YOU* to have.

You seem to think there is a fixed amount of wealth, and that if someone gets rich, it means others got poor.

That's false. It's not a zero-sum equation.

But it sure is handy for stoking class resentment, isn't it?

Oh, and while I have your attention: Who is The Man who's keeping you down? What's keeping YOU from working and making yourself rich?

So far as I can tell, the only thing keeping you down is you.

 

[Avatar4321]

How can you dumb monkeys come up with the ad-hominem "class envy" excuse when a super rich 1% has control over a quarter of the country's wealth? If you don't fall up under that 1% what the hell are you yelling class envy for? You'd rather tax cuts go to these people so they can have even more control yet complain and moan about the government taking away from you? What is it that these 1% are doing for *YOU* that is so good that makes you defend and protect them and demonize the government? Think about it again in clear terms you deluded monkeys, 1% owns 25% of the country's wealth, if you advocate for tax cuts for these morons thats going to be less money in the pot for *YOU* to have.

You seem to think there is a fixed amount of wealth, and that if someone gets rich, it means others got poor.

That's false.

That's because he's never worked hard in his life.

 

[Big Fitz]

Why we can't ignore growing income inequality. (1) - By Timothy Noah - Slate Magazine

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/07/opinion/07kristof.html?_r=1


And you shameless monkeys still want tax cuts for the richest 2% to continue ignoring that they already have a substantial amount of the nation's wealth.

It is not the government's job to monitor the lives of it's citizens for fairness or equality. It is none of your business either if someone else works or inherits or has. Focus on your own life.

 

[daveman]

How can you dumb monkeys come up with the ad-hominem "class envy" excuse when a super rich 1% has control over a quarter of the country's wealth? If you don't fall up under that 1% what the hell are you yelling class envy for? You'd rather tax cuts go to these people so they can have even more control yet complain and moan about the government taking away from you? What is it that these 1% are doing for *YOU* that is so good that makes you defend and protect them and demonize the government? Think about it again in clear terms you deluded monkeys, 1% owns 25% of the country's wealth, if you advocate for tax cuts for these morons thats going to be less money in the pot for *YOU* to have.

If you dislike the way this country operates, leave it and go somewhere where they have this 'equality' you seek. See how that works for you. Leave your passport at the door, because this country needs people who will stand on their own feet, along side others and work to get us back to stability. We do not need, and can not afford, whiners who want to take from others because they have more than you.

"You must spread some Reputation etc."

 

[daveman]

How can you dumb monkeys come up with the ad-hominem "class envy" excuse when a super rich 1% has control over a quarter of the country's wealth? If you don't fall up under that 1% what the hell are you yelling class envy for? You'd rather tax cuts go to these people so they can have even more control yet complain and moan about the government taking away from you? What is it that these 1% are doing for *YOU* that is so good that makes you defend and protect them and demonize the government? Think about it again in clear terms you deluded monkeys, 1% owns 25% of the country's wealth, if you advocate for tax cuts for these morons thats going to be less money in the pot for *YOU* to have.

You seem to think there is a fixed amount of wealth, and that if someone gets rich, it means others got poor.

That's false.

That's because he's never worked hard in his life.

That's a distinct possibility, given his penchant for insisting what others have earned belongs to him.

 

[Bass v 2.0]

Maybe instead of whining about inequality of income, you ask yourself why?

Why do some people make more money than others?

If someone through their labor and ingenuity makes more money than I do, why should that bother me?

Now if someone makes more money than I do because they work for a bueaucracy that takes my hard earned money to give to them for doing a questionable amount of work, then I am alittle bothered by that. Robbery, whether legalized through politics or not, is a significant thing to be concerned about.

People working hard, taking chances, and reaping the benefits, isn't.

If you believe those 1% are hard working, ingenious people who earned it you're deluded, capitalism has never worked that way for the majority of these people, its a corrupt, bloody, dog eat dog business. Its robbery to take tax cuts for job creation and pocket that money and send jobs and stash money in overseas countries and accounts.

How is it Robbery to keep your own money?

And yes, I believe that through hard work and honesty, you can make quite alot of money.

Just because you are corrupt, doesn't mean everyone else is.

So are you saying those 1% with all that wealth are intellectually your superiors and you are dumber than they are because they're richer than you? I know people who've been working blue collar jobs for years and these people are some of the most honest and hard working people anyone is ever going to meet yet they're not amongst the 1% that have have 25% of the country's wealth so your argument that these 1% earn their wealth through superior work ethic doesn't fly and I'm willing to bet you don't know anything about those 1% let alone who they are and how they earned what they have. BTW, since you're *NOT* amongst these 1% does that mean by your logic that these people are more hard working and honest than you are? You really consider these people your superiors.

 

[Bass v 2.0]

If you dislike the way this country operates, leave it and go somewhere where they have this 'equality' you seek. See how that works for you. Leave your passport at the door, because this country needs people who will stand on their own feet, along side others and work to get us back to stability. We do not need, and can not afford, whiners who want to take from others because they have more than you.

If you think 1% out of a population of 300 million controlling 25% of the country's wealth is "equality" you're a retard and a fool for supporting tax cuts for them. If you don't like the government and Obama why don't you leave and find that capitalist paradise where trickle down economics and every other thing that republicans believe in exist, please find that country. The very 1% you are defending are the ones doing the taking, their wealth and power is growing while the ones you complain and claim that are taking are getting poorer, with all the "taking away" that the poor are doing one would think they would be as rich as the those 1% yet it isn't happening.

Are you stupid?

Where, in the Constitution, does it guarantee you 'equality' through life? It says 'All men are CREATED equal". Created. Our country is not a country founded on a guarantee of lifelong equality.

Which brings me neatly back to my original comment. Our country is supposed to be run in accordance with our Constitution. If you do not wish to live under that, fucking well leave.

Where in the Constitution does it say to exploit people by any means necessary to be rich? Do you consider yourself inferior and unequal to these uber rich 1% because you have less wealth? If you do you're more retarded than I thought you were. Where in the Constitution does it say lopsided unequal distribution of income is allowed?

Don't give me that Constitutional talk you idiot because you idiotic Conservatives like to hide behind it when you think it supports and want to change it and amend it when it doesn't, either accept it as is or shut up.