The Trinity

[CA95380]

I have an IDEA, stay out of this forum if you do not care to actually discuss what THIS forum is for.

"Interesting. VERY interesting! I just might check back next week to see how this debate ends up!"​

 

[dilloduck]

Harmony, I can believe that, BUT most Christians do not teach that, they teach that Jesus is God and that the Holy Spirit is God. And they are wrong.

Jesus is the SON of God and he works for God. The Holy Spirit is a force of God that helps when required, again NOT God.

Read the Bible.

I have --- if you understand it, why are you asking the question on the first place ? If you take every single piece of scrpiture and try to understand them out of context , the job descriptions of the Trinty can be confusing.
I don't think God cares if you understand them or not.

 

[Anguille]

"Interesting. VERY interesting! I just might check back next week to see how this debate ends up!"​

I can tell how it will end up. RGS will concede that trying to derail my thread here into a theological debate was a very naughty thing to do.

 

[dilloduck]

I can tell how it will end up. RGS will concede that trying to derail my thread here into a theological debate was a very naughty thing to do.

Whose thread ?

 

[Anguille]

Whose thread ?

i know I really shouldn't mess with him. Him being retarded and all.

(No offense to the other "Him")

 

[CA95380]

Whose thread ?

LOL ... I think this is called ... a gotcha!

 

[CA95380]

&

Don'cha love those commercials during these debates - so you can get snacks?

 

[Eightball]

I can't believe people actually waste time wondering about stuff like this.

If you have something constructive to contribute to the "Religion" forum, I don't see it in your post.

 

[Anguille]

If you have something constructive to contribute to the "Religion" forum, I don't see it in your post.

And yours does?
Are only religious people welcome to talk about religion here?

 

[Eightball]

And yours does?
Are only religious people welcome to talk about religion here?

Was not meant to offend, but do you know the Trinitarian Doctrine from Scripture?

You think it's a moot point to discuss; doesn't seem so to those who are discussing it's validity or not.

I just wondered in my last comment how making the point that it's basically meaningless, and coming from an avowed non-religious person this comment is adding to our discussion about the merits or not of the Trinitarian doctrine?

If it's meaningless to you, ok..........To anyone that isn't a Christian or believer in biblical scripture, Trinitarian doctrine should be meaningless..........That's a "given", as you aren't a participant in the Faith or belief in God having a Triune nature, that is so very explicit in scripture.

Believing in God being Triune in nature is not meaningless, but actually is important, as it delineates between those who believe that Jesus is God incarnate and those who just see Him as a great prophet, or very Holy man, but nothing else. Also, it is mentioned many times in Scripture that God is Spirit, and Jesus even referred to the Holy Spirit in the personage of the Might Counselor, or One that will enable Christians after Jesus had ascended to heaven, and sent the Spirit to indwell believing man's souls.

Jesus refers the Spirit in the Proper Noun tense as the "One"........Also Jesus referred to Himself as Yaweh, or the "I AM" or God............As in the Alpha and the Omega.

Either Jesus was deluded and had a "God complex" or He was of clear mind and spoke the truth 100% of the time.

It's left to you and me to digest or read the scriptures with neutral bias and let them speak to us rather than let scripture prove our bias.

Now how many here believe Jesus was a lunatic? He claimed to be God, John His very close Apostle claimed Him to be God.........as he/John said that the Word was God, and the Word became Flesh(Jesus in his human incarnation or first advent/Bethlehem).

Remember that the sign of a Christian cult or a group who claims to be Christian yet purposefully changes the nature of Christ Jesus is a cult. They are false teachers, and Jesus and His apostles warned the early church to be on guard or on the look-out for those that would possibly lead believers astray through false doctrines.

The teaching that God is not triune in nature is false to the core. It is taught by the Mormon church, Jehovah's witnesses and other pseudo-Christian sects.

It always boils down to this..........What does a sect or church do with Jesus' nature or identity in respect to clear scriptural understanding? Do they acknowledge that He is indeed God in the Flesh, or is he just a glorified and created being, ..........If they do, then they have gone against Jesus' very own proclamations that got Him nearly stoned after saving the adultress woman from being stoned to death. First of all He forgave her sins.......That enraged the crowd, as the said that on God could forgive........secondly He said before even Abraham............"I AM".........They, the Jews interpretted that correctly, and were enraged at Him as He had just said that He pre-existed eternally before even one of their most venerated prophets sent from God, Abraham.

The book of Colosians clearly states that all things made or were created through Christ.......I.E. He was the designated Creator of all matter/mass/existence or the Universe and whatever else lies beyond.........The Triune Godhead works in perfect concert, with God being expressed both invisibly by the Spirit in men's souls to enable, encourage, enlighten and help interpret God inspired scripture, as the incarnate human being of Christ who entered time from eternity past/present/future, to live out total/100% human existence to totally identify with humanity in order to be 100% perfect sacrifice or propitiation for fallen man (Romans 3:23), and God the Father who sits mightily upon the thrown of heaven surrounded by cheribim and Seraphim, and is the going to be revealed to us in His splender. Old Ancient of Days is another name for God........as well as so many other descriptive names.
*******
The bible does not do a 1,2,3, on here's the designated identity or descriptive identity of the Godhead.

Trinity is not a word found in scripture, but is a word man uses to sum-up his best human definition of God's mysterious nature as He has revealed it to mankind through the centuries.

 

[Care4all]

I think he had to mince his words a bit to get the message across---he got crucified for even claiming to be the son of God--can you imagine him trying to tell a bunch of jews that he WAS God ?

he got killed for saying he was God, not for saying he was the son of god...

He said He and God were one and the same....which was blasphemy to the pharisees and sadducees....

and that should answer ret sgt's question to some degree...

 

[CA95380]

Are you the one that gave us a lecture the other day about the difference in Morman's and Jehovah Witness'ess (or whatever several of them are called)?

I wondered then, and I still wonder, if those people have discovered, "Google or Ask Jeeves", yet.

 

[Sunni Man]

The word Trinity is not found in the Bible.

Christianity is a polytheistic religion.

While Judism and Islam are true monotheistic religions.

 

[Anguille]

Was not meant to offend, but do you know the Trinitarian Doctrine from Scripture?

You think it's a moot point to discuss; doesn't seem so to those who are discussing it's validity or not.

I just wondered in my last comment how making the point that it's basically meaningless, and coming from an avowed non-religious person this comment is adding to our discussion about the merits or not of the Trinitarian doctrine?

If it's meaningless to you, ok..........To anyone that isn't a Christian or believer in biblical scripture, Trinitarian doctrine should be meaningless..........That's a "given", as you aren't a participant in the Faith or belief in God having a Triune nature, that is so very explicit in scripture.

Thanks for explaining. No offense taken.
Scripture may be meaningless to many of us non believers but to some of us it's still interesting. My comment probably was out of place and I'm sorry if it bothered anyone (Not sorry if it bothered that carankpants,RSG though, since he like to pick fights) but what do you think about my other one? About how does one reconcile the general perception of Christianity as a monotheistic religion if God is actually 3 separate entities? Dilloduck said something about maybe God doesn't want us to understand it, I suppose he means the Mystery thing, but I should think that, hypothetically spaeking of course, that God would not want it to be a mystery, that he would want us to have precise and believable answers to questions like the nature of the Trinity.

This may seem like sophomoric questions to those of you who study the Bible so don't feel obliged to answer them. But in any case, just so you know, religion is actually a fascinating subject to many of us non believers.

 

[Eightball]

Are you the one that gave us a lecture the other day about the difference in Morman's and Jehovah Witness'ess (or whatever several of them are called)?

I wondered then, and I still wonder, if those people have discovered, "Google or Ask Jeeves", yet.

Yep, you found the chap.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

he got killed for saying he was God, not for saying he was the son of god...

He said He and God were one and the same....which was blasphemy to the pharisees and sadducees....

and that should answer ret sgt's question to some degree...

Provide the passage where he ever said that. He does however say over and over he IS NOT God. That his words are not his but those of God. That he preaches not for himself but for God.

 

[Glori.B]

Provide the passage where he ever said that. He does however say over and over he IS NOT God. That his words are not his but those of God. That he preaches not for himself but for God.

yes, when jesus was asked if he was God, didn't he always answer with the question, "who do you say that i am." ?

 

[Anguille]

Provide the passage where he ever said that. He does however say over and over he IS NOT God. That his words are not his but those of God. That he preaches not for himself but for God.

Oy! This is where I'm going to have to borrow some of CA95380's extra strength Excedrin.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Was not meant to offend, but do you know the Trinitarian Doctrine from Scripture?

You think it's a moot point to discuss; doesn't seem so to those who are discussing it's validity or not.

I just wondered in my last comment how making the point that it's basically meaningless, and coming from an avowed non-religious person this comment is adding to our discussion about the merits or not of the Trinitarian doctrine?

If it's meaningless to you, ok..........To anyone that isn't a Christian or believer in biblical scripture, Trinitarian doctrine should be meaningless..........That's a "given", as you aren't a participant in the Faith or belief in God having a Triune nature, that is so very explicit in scripture.

Believing in God being Triune in nature is not meaningless, but actually is important, as it delineates between those who believe that Jesus is God incarnate and those who just see Him as a great prophet, or very Holy man, but nothing else. Also, it is mentioned many times in Scripture that God is Spirit, and Jesus even referred to the Holy Spirit in the personage of the Might Counselor, or One that will enable Christians after Jesus had ascended to heaven, and sent the Spirit to indwell believing man's souls.

Jesus refers the Spirit in the Proper Noun tense as the "One"........Also Jesus referred to Himself as Yaweh, or the "I AM" or God............As in the Alpha and the Omega.

Either Jesus was deluded and had a "God complex" or He was of clear mind and spoke the truth 100% of the time.

It's left to you and me to digest or read the scriptures with neutral bias and let them speak to us rather than let scripture prove our bias.

Now how many here believe Jesus was a lunatic? He claimed to be God, John His very close Apostle claimed Him to be God.........as he/John said that the Word was God, and the Word became Flesh(Jesus in his human incarnation or first advent/Bethlehem).

Remember that the sign of a Christian cult or a group who claims to be Christian yet purposefully changes the nature of Christ Jesus is a cult. They are false teachers, and Jesus and His apostles warned the early church to be on guard or on the look-out for those that would possibly lead believers astray through false doctrines.

The teaching that God is not triune in nature is false to the core. It is taught by the Mormon church, Jehovah's witnesses and other pseudo-Christian sects.

It always boils down to this..........What does a sect or church do with Jesus' nature or identity in respect to clear scriptural understanding? Do they acknowledge that He is indeed God in the Flesh, or is he just a glorified and created being, ..........If they do, then they have gone against Jesus' very own proclamations that got Him nearly stoned after saving the adultress woman from being stoned to death. First of all He forgave her sins.......That enraged the crowd, as the said that on God could forgive........secondly He said before even Abraham............"I AM".........They, the Jews interpretted that correctly, and were enraged at Him as He had just said that He pre-existed eternally before even one of their most venerated prophets sent from God, Abraham.

The book of Colosians clearly states that all things made or were created through Christ.......I.E. He was the designated Creator of all matter/mass/existence or the Universe and whatever else lies beyond.........The Triune Godhead works in perfect concert, with God being expressed both invisibly by the Spirit in men's souls to enable, encourage, enlighten and help interpret God inspired scripture, as the incarnate human being of Christ who entered time from eternity past/present/future, to live out total/100% human existence to totally identify with humanity in order to be 100% perfect sacrifice or propitiation for fallen man (Romans 3:23), and God the Father who sits mightily upon the thrown of heaven surrounded by cheribim and Seraphim, and is the going to be revealed to us in His splender. Old Ancient of Days is another name for God........as well as so many other descriptive names.
*******
The bible does not do a 1,2,3, on here's the designated identity or descriptive identity of the Godhead.

Trinity is not a word found in scripture, but is a word man uses to sum-up his best human definition of God's mysterious nature as He has revealed it to mankind through the centuries.

Your wrong. Again explain if Jesus is God my passage and if the Holy Spirit is God my passage. Ohh and both are from John, so much for him claiming Jesus and the Holy Spirit are just God.

There is absolutely no reason for Jesus to keep reminding everyone that he is the SON of God and NOT God if he really meant he is God.

Provide the passage where he says he is God. God made him and then allows Jesus to make everything else after him, through God's power.

 

[Glori.B]

Oy! This is where I'm going to have to borrow some of CA95380's extra strength Excedrin.

take two and call me in the morning.