The Stupidity Of The Gates Arrest

[Ravi]

Is this a fact?

My understanding has always been that verbally assaulting a police officer can be deemed disorderly conduct. If my understanding on this is wrong, I would change my opinion about Crowley's actions. But I would need to validate the veracity of the above quote.

However, it would still do nothing to change my opinion that Gates is a douchebag asshole for berating an officer for doing his job.

Not sure I sure share this info with a hothead, but ...


But one thing is clear: Gates did not violate any law. Under Massachusetts law, which the police officer was supposedly enforcing, yelling at a police officer is not illegal.
There are clear decisions of the Massachusetts courts holding that a person who berates an officer, even during an arrest, is not guilty of disorderly conduct. And yet that is exactly what Gates was arrested for.
The Massachusetts statute defining "disorderly conduct" used to have a provision that made it illegal to make "unreasonable noise or offensively coarse utterance, gesture or display," or to address "abusive language to any person present." Yet the courts have interpreted that provision to violate the Massachusetts Constitution's guarantee of freedom of speech. So police cannot lawfully arrest a person for hurling abusive language at an officer.
In several cases, the courts in Massachusetts have considered whether a person is guilty of disorderly conduct for verbally abusing a police officer. In Commonwealth v. Lopiano, a 2004 decision, an appeals court held it was not disorderly conduct for a person who angrily yelled at an officer that his civil rights were being violated. In Commonwealth v. Mallahan, a decision rendered last year, an appeals court held that a person who launched into an angry, profanity-laced tirade against a police officer in front of spectators could not be convicted of disorderly conduct.
So Massachusetts law clearly provides that Gates did not commit disorderly conduct.




Adam Winkler: Obama Was Right About the Gates Arrest

Ok then, it appears that I was wrong and Crowley did indeed abuse his position of authority. Fuckin pigs!

Thank you for your help and perserverance in dragging me into the light.

Although I still think that as a matter of pragmatic prudence, I'll continue to refrain from verbally assaulting police officers even though it may be by legal right to do so.

I thought you knew that all along.

 

[Tommy Lucchese]

Wrong again dipshit:

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

Gee, his fellow black officers say he handled it right.

A cop sticking up for a cop? What a surprise!

His supervisors didn't stick up for him when they dropped the charges. Good thing someone at the station knew the law.

Police officers make arrests. They have nothing to do with the disposition of charges. That's the DA's bailiwick.

 

[Anguille]

Police officers make arrests. They have nothing to do with the disposition of charges. That's the DA's bailiwick.

That is correct. I spoke in general terms.

 

[BrokenAngel]

Not sure I sure share this info with a hothead, but ...


But one thing is clear: Gates did not violate any law. Under Massachusetts law, which the police officer was supposedly enforcing, yelling at a police officer is not illegal.
There are clear decisions of the Massachusetts courts holding that a person who berates an officer, even during an arrest, is not guilty of disorderly conduct. And yet that is exactly what Gates was arrested for.
The Massachusetts statute defining "disorderly conduct" used to have a provision that made it illegal to make "unreasonable noise or offensively coarse utterance, gesture or display," or to address "abusive language to any person present." Yet the courts have interpreted that provision to violate the Massachusetts Constitution's guarantee of freedom of speech. So police cannot lawfully arrest a person for hurling abusive language at an officer.
In several cases, the courts in Massachusetts have considered whether a person is guilty of disorderly conduct for verbally abusing a police officer. In Commonwealth v. Lopiano, a 2004 decision, an appeals court held it was not disorderly conduct for a person who angrily yelled at an officer that his civil rights were being violated. In Commonwealth v. Mallahan, a decision rendered last year, an appeals court held that a person who launched into an angry, profanity-laced tirade against a police officer in front of spectators could not be convicted of disorderly conduct.
So Massachusetts law clearly provides that Gates did not commit disorderly conduct.




Adam Winkler: Obama Was Right About the Gates Arrest

He was not arrested just because he was yelling at Crowley but rather because he was causing passerbys distress and alarm. There was a crowd gathering and Gates was causing a massive scene. That was the disorderly conduct if you read the police report. It was not stated that Gates was brought in for verbally assaulting the police officer but rather because he was upsetting people who might have otherwise walked on by. The officer was attempting to keep the peace and I see nothing wrong with that. Also.. did you ever notice that Gates seemed to WANT this outcome ever since the officers stepped foot in his house? He refused to show ID right off the bat, it took a few attempts but at that point he would not calm down. The officer asked him to please step outside of the house and try to calm down there and, though Gates did step outside he continued to yell and even got more crude once on the porch. When a crowd gathered due to the outbursts is when Crowley cuffed him for disorderly conduct when all Gates had to do was show ID and, at worst, allow the cops to take a peek in each room so they felt no one was held hostage and the scene was safe.

You've invented half of what you say there. Big imagination you have.

Gates showed ID.

Henry Louis Gates, Jr. Police Report - July 23, 2009

Not until after he had gone and gotten worked up. He did not show ID when first asked and if you read the full report it was not just because of what he was saying but it was his manner of generally responding. Gates blew his top, went off, drew on lookers and the cops asked him to calm himself, he refused. What else are they supposed to do? Honestly?

 

[Diuretic]

Cops are taught to lie for the record.

......

It's on the job training, it's not in the Academy curriculum

 

[Anguille]

He was not arrested just because he was yelling at Crowley but rather because he was causing passerbys distress and alarm. There was a crowd gathering and Gates was causing a massive scene. That was the disorderly conduct if you read the police report. It was not stated that Gates was brought in for verbally assaulting the police officer but rather because he was upsetting people who might have otherwise walked on by. The officer was attempting to keep the peace and I see nothing wrong with that. Also.. did you ever notice that Gates seemed to WANT this outcome ever since the officers stepped foot in his house? He refused to show ID right off the bat, it took a few attempts but at that point he would not calm down. The officer asked him to please step outside of the house and try to calm down there and, though Gates did step outside he continued to yell and even got more crude once on the porch. When a crowd gathered due to the outbursts is when Crowley cuffed him for disorderly conduct when all Gates had to do was show ID and, at worst, allow the cops to take a peek in each room so they felt no one was held hostage and the scene was safe.

You've invented half of what you say there. Big imagination you have.

Gates showed ID.

Henry Louis Gates, Jr. Police Report - July 23, 2009

Not until after he had gone and gotten worked up. He did not show ID when first asked and if you read the full report it was not just because of what he was saying but it was his manner of generally responding. Gates blew his top, went off, drew on lookers and the cops asked him to calm himself, he refused. What else are they supposed to do? Honestly?

The cop should have left as soon as he was sure Gates belonged there which was what he stated he believed to be the case very early on in his encounter with Gates. The report has been shown to have several inconsistencies.

 

[Diuretic]

If Gates has sought legal advice and that legal advice is that Crowley unlawfully arrested Gates then Gates can sue.

If he doesn't sue it might mean that (a) Crowley was in fact legallly justified or (b) Gates is sick and tired of this crap and doesn't want to take it to civil court.

However since, as has been pointed out, the DA said Crowley was legally justified (which doesn't go to the issue of whether or not he over-reacted), it might be (c) that Gates accepts that Crowley did nothing unlawful. Whether or not it was well-advised is another issue.

 

[Ravi]

If Gates has sought legal advice and that legal advice is that Crowley unlawfully arrested Gates then Gates can sue.

If he doesn't sue it might mean that (a) Crowley was in fact legallly justified or (b) Gates is sick and tired of this crap and doesn't want to take it to civil court.

However since, as has been pointed out, the DA said Crowley was legally justified (which doesn't go to the issue of whether or not he over-reacted), it might be (c) that Gates accepts that Crowley did nothing unlawful. Whether or not it was well-advised is another issue.

Where did you read that?

 

[Diuretic]

If Gates has sought legal advice and that legal advice is that Crowley unlawfully arrested Gates then Gates can sue.

If he doesn't sue it might mean that (a) Crowley was in fact legallly justified or (b) Gates is sick and tired of this crap and doesn't want to take it to civil court.

However since, as has been pointed out, the DA said Crowley was legally justified (which doesn't go to the issue of whether or not he over-reacted), it might be (c) that Gates accepts that Crowley did nothing unlawful. Whether or not it was well-advised is another issue.

Where did you read that?

The DA has stated repeatedly the officer was well within protocol to arrest Gates and that dropping the charges had no bearing whatsoever on the legitimacy of the arrest.

Missourian's post number 30. And no, I haven't interrrogated Missourian about it, I seem to have mislaid my sap gloves

 

[Ravi]

Obviously Gates over-reacted.

As did the cop.

NBD

Except that the cop is paid not to overreact, which made it unprofessional on his part. Plus they quickly dropped the charges when clearer heads got control of the situation, so the cop was wrong to arrest him.
I'm amazed at how many conservatives suddenly decided that a man has no right to get upset when the cops accuse him of burglarizing his own home.

The DA has stated repeatedly the officer was well within protocol to arrest Gates and that dropping the charges had no bearing whatsoever on the legitimacy of the arrest.

P.S. - The police were accusing him of breaking into the home...which he admitted.

Link?

 

[Anguille]

Except that the cop is paid not to overreact, which made it unprofessional on his part. Plus they quickly dropped the charges when clearer heads got control of the situation, so the cop was wrong to arrest him.
I'm amazed at how many conservatives suddenly decided that a man has no right to get upset when the cops accuse him of burglarizing his own home.

The DA has stated repeatedly the officer was well within protocol to arrest Gates and that dropping the charges had no bearing whatsoever on the legitimacy of the arrest.

P.S. - The police were accusing him of breaking into the home...which he admitted.

Link?

I'd like to see that too.

 

[Bfgrn]

He was not arrested just because he was yelling at Crowley but rather because he was causing passerbys distress and alarm. There was a crowd gathering and Gates was causing a massive scene. That was the disorderly conduct if you read the police report. It was not stated that Gates was brought in for verbally assaulting the police officer but rather because he was upsetting people who might have otherwise walked on by. The officer was attempting to keep the peace and I see nothing wrong with that. Also.. did you ever notice that Gates seemed to WANT this outcome ever since the officers stepped foot in his house? He refused to show ID right off the bat, it took a few attempts but at that point he would not calm down. The officer asked him to please step outside of the house and try to calm down there and, though Gates did step outside he continued to yell and even got more crude once on the porch. When a crowd gathered due to the outbursts is when Crowley cuffed him for disorderly conduct when all Gates had to do was show ID and, at worst, allow the cops to take a peek in each room so they felt no one was held hostage and the scene was safe.

You've invented half of what you say there. Big imagination you have.

Gates showed ID.

Henry Louis Gates, Jr. Police Report - July 23, 2009

Not until after he had gone and gotten worked up. He did not show ID when first asked and if you read the full report it was not just because of what he was saying but it was his manner of generally responding. Gates blew his top, went off, drew on lookers and the cops asked him to calm himself, he refused. What else are they supposed to do? Honestly?

What is Crowley supposed to do? How about ACT like a professional instead of stupidly. Give Gates his name and badge number. Inform him if as a citizen he has the right to contact his superior if he has questions or complaints...THEN, get in his squad car and LEAVE...

 

[Annie]

After all is said and done. We all know that Gates went to the wall with unsubstantiated racists nonsense. Then Crowley nailed his ass, which made many angry, though without justification.

Then the grand puba got involved, which really threw the proverbial monkey wrench into the discussion. Bottom line, the white guy won, through no fault of his own. I'm certain if he knew he could have served the CIC by being a bigot, he'd have tried to please.

 

[Bfgrn]

After all is said and done. We all know that Gates went to the wall with unsubstantiated racists nonsense. Then Crowley nailed his ass, which made many angry, though without justification.

Then the grand puba got involved, which really threw the proverbial monkey wrench into the discussion. Bottom line, the white guy won, through no fault of his own. I'm certain if he knew he could have served the CIC by being a bigot, he'd have tried to please.

"We are a nation of laws not men"

The rule of law, also called supremacy of law, is a general legal maxim according to which decisions should be made by applying known principles or laws, without the intervention of discretion in their application. This maxim is intended to be a safeguard against arbitrary governance. The word "arbitrary" (from the Latin "arbiter") signifies a judgment made at the discretion of the arbiter, rather than according to the rule of law.


SO, WHAT you are saying Annie is police have the right, the power and the justification to arrest a citizen when an officer makes an arbitrary judgment based on HIS discretion, NOT the law...

OK, we are NO longer a nation of laws, we are a nation of men...

Right wing pea brains, throwing away over 200 years of the Rule of Law because a black man called a white man names...

 

[Ravi]

After all is said and done. We all know that Gates went to the wall with unsubstantiated racists nonsense. Then Crowley nailed his ass, which made many angry, though without justification.

Then the grand puba got involved, which really threw the proverbial monkey wrench into the discussion. Bottom line, the white guy won, through no fault of his own. I'm certain if he knew he could have served the CIC by being a bigot, he'd have tried to please.

Not quiet factual. We know that Crowley said Gates did all that. And we know Crowley arrested Gates. That's all we really know. The rest is he said, he said.

Oh, and we know that Annie lets her stereotypes form her opinion. lol

 

[Anguille]

Bottom line, the white guy won, through no fault of his own.

?

 

[Ravi]

Bottom line, the white guy won, through no fault of his own.

?

Winning is everything?

 

[Anguille]

Bottom line, the white guy won, through no fault of his own.

?

Winning is everything?

I don't even get what she is saying.

The white guy won as in he got to arrest Gates? No fault of his own means he made no mistakes?

I'm just not understanding.

I think she might be saying that even though the charges were dropped as they ought to have been, everyone is still mad at Gates and rightfully so???

I don't really know.

Annie?

 

[Ravi]

?

Winning is everything?

I don't even get what she is saying.

The white guy won as in he got to arrest Gates? No fault of his own means he made no mistakes?

I'm just not understanding.

I think she might be saying that even though the charges were dropped as they ought to have been, everyone is still mad at Gates and rightfully so???

I don't really know.

Annie?

No doubt there's a crappy minivan involved.

 

[Annie]

Shazaam! Could it be that the cop that came a calling, meant no harm? Could it be that the master of the home really felt that cops were out to get him? Can it be possible to have an non-racist cop in a racist charges incident? Well, yeah.