The rightwing and the fallacy of their black and white reasoning

[Billy000]

A progressive tax system is what has always been realistic for the economy. Realism trumps what's fair from a philosophical standpoint.

Realism is the historical record. Look at that 92% top tax rate back int he 1950s. See it? Now look lower on the graph and find the green line which shows Income Taxes as a Percent of GDP. Watch that green line REACT to the lowering of the top marginal tax rates. Notice anything?

Explain to me WHY deporting all those illegals would raise wages. Yes more American citizens will have jobs but that doesn't explain why wages would inevitably rise. Last time you brought this up you gave an anecdotal account of a company saying they raised their wages because more Caucasians took the jobs from deported illegals. Even if that was the reason, why would all companies with illegal workers react this same way? Where is the statistic proof?

What do you think happens to wages when there are more jobs available than there are workers to fill the jobs. Sit and think about that for a moment.

Here's what happened after some immigration raids on slaughterhouses:

- Fewer Hispanic immigrants are being hired to replace meatpacking workers arrested at
Swift & Co. plants in Grand Island, Neb., and Greeley, Colo., during last week's immigration
raid, union officials said Tuesday.

Local 22 union president Dan Hoppes said Tuesday that 40 to 50 new workers have been hired at the Grand Island plant since the raids.

''The lion's share of those people were Caucasian,'' Hoppes said.. . .

''They're trying to staff up their plants and they've been raising their wages the past few weeks,'' said United Food and Commercial Workers spokeswoman Jill Cashen. ''To me, it's an example that when you make the job more attractive you get a different kind of applicant.'
​

Here's another story:

The United Food and Commercial Workers filed grievances over the company’s interviews, although after the workers left, the Marshalltown plant raised its starting wage from $9.55 to $11.50 in an attempt to fill the vacancies, said Jim Olesen, the union’s local president.​

I'm not sure what your point is with that graph. Are you suggesting it is a bad thing that taxes as a percentage of GDP hasn't lowered by much but the percentage of the top earners has gone down?

Yes, those exact examples you gave about wages lowering because of the deportation is what I was talking about lol. Like I said, anecdotal. You still haven t given me an actual explanation. What is the incentive of businesses raising their wages if their jobs to illegals was replaced by legal Americans?

 

[Rikurzhen]

A progressive tax system is what has always been realistic for the economy. Realism trumps what's fair from a philosophical standpoint.

Realism is the historical record. Look at that 92% top tax rate back int he 1950s. See it? Now look lower on the graph and find the green line which shows Income Taxes as a Percent of GDP. Watch that green line REACT to the lowering of the top marginal tax rates. Notice anything?

Explain to me WHY deporting all those illegals would raise wages. Yes more American citizens will have jobs but that doesn't explain why wages would inevitably rise. Last time you brought this up you gave an anecdotal account of a company saying they raised their wages because more Caucasians took the jobs from deported illegals. Even if that was the reason, why would all companies with illegal workers react this same way? Where is the statistic proof?

What do you think happens to wages when there are more jobs available than there are workers to fill the jobs. Sit and think about that for a moment.

Here's what happened after some immigration raids on slaughterhouses:

- Fewer Hispanic immigrants are being hired to replace meatpacking workers arrested at
Swift & Co. plants in Grand Island, Neb., and Greeley, Colo., during last week's immigration
raid, union officials said Tuesday.

Local 22 union president Dan Hoppes said Tuesday that 40 to 50 new workers have been hired at the Grand Island plant since the raids.

''The lion's share of those people were Caucasian,'' Hoppes said.. . .

''They're trying to staff up their plants and they've been raising their wages the past few weeks,'' said United Food and Commercial Workers spokeswoman Jill Cashen. ''To me, it's an example that when you make the job more attractive you get a different kind of applicant.'
​

Here's another story:

The United Food and Commercial Workers filed grievances over the company’s interviews, although after the workers left, the Marshalltown plant raised its starting wage from $9.55 to $11.50 in an attempt to fill the vacancies, said Jim Olesen, the union’s local president.​

I'm not sure what your point is with that graph. Are you suggesting it is a bad thing that taxes as a percentage of GDP hasn't lowered by much but the percentage of the top earners has gone down?

Yes, those exact examples you gave about wages lowering because of the deportation is what I was talking about lol. Like I said, anecdotal. You still haven t given me an actual explanation. What is the incentive of businesses raising their wages if their jobs to illegals was replaced by legal Americans?

Forget it. I forgot that I was dealing with you and your demonstrated history of being thick as a wall. You go right on being who you are.

 

[Billy000]

A progressive tax system is what has always been realistic for the economy. Realism trumps what's fair from a philosophical standpoint.

Realism is the historical record. Look at that 92% top tax rate back int he 1950s. See it? Now look lower on the graph and find the green line which shows Income Taxes as a Percent of GDP. Watch that green line REACT to the lowering of the top marginal tax rates. Notice anything?

Explain to me WHY deporting all those illegals would raise wages. Yes more American citizens will have jobs but that doesn't explain why wages would inevitably rise. Last time you brought this up you gave an anecdotal account of a company saying they raised their wages because more Caucasians took the jobs from deported illegals. Even if that was the reason, why would all companies with illegal workers react this same way? Where is the statistic proof?

What do you think happens to wages when there are more jobs available than there are workers to fill the jobs. Sit and think about that for a moment.

Here's what happened after some immigration raids on slaughterhouses:

- Fewer Hispanic immigrants are being hired to replace meatpacking workers arrested at
Swift & Co. plants in Grand Island, Neb., and Greeley, Colo., during last week's immigration
raid, union officials said Tuesday.

Local 22 union president Dan Hoppes said Tuesday that 40 to 50 new workers have been hired at the Grand Island plant since the raids.

''The lion's share of those people were Caucasian,'' Hoppes said.. . .

''They're trying to staff up their plants and they've been raising their wages the past few weeks,'' said United Food and Commercial Workers spokeswoman Jill Cashen. ''To me, it's an example that when you make the job more attractive you get a different kind of applicant.'
​

Here's another story:

The United Food and Commercial Workers filed grievances over the company’s interviews, although after the workers left, the Marshalltown plant raised its starting wage from $9.55 to $11.50 in an attempt to fill the vacancies, said Jim Olesen, the union’s local president.​

I'm not sure what your point is with that graph. Are you suggesting it is a bad thing that taxes as a percentage of GDP hasn't lowered by much but the percentage of the top earners has gone down?

Yes, those exact examples you gave about wages lowering because of the deportation is what I was talking about lol. Like I said, anecdotal. You still haven t given me an actual explanation. What is the incentive of businesses raising their wages if their jobs to illegals was replaced by legal Americans?

Forget it. I forgot that I was dealing with you and your demonstrated history of being thick as a wall. You go right on being who you are.

I am responding to your exact information. I am taking no liberties wit history

Also, i would consider it a bad thing that the tax rate among the top earners has fallen so much. Like I said, Bush's tax cuts have contributed trillions to our national debt. Even if Obama and Bush's big defense spending hadn't increased, the drop in revenue would not have been at a sufficient level to pay our expenses.

 

[Rikurzhen]

A progressive tax system is what has always been realistic for the economy. Realism trumps what's fair from a philosophical standpoint.

Realism is the historical record. Look at that 92% top tax rate back int he 1950s. See it? Now look lower on the graph and find the green line which shows Income Taxes as a Percent of GDP. Watch that green line REACT to the lowering of the top marginal tax rates. Notice anything?

Explain to me WHY deporting all those illegals would raise wages. Yes more American citizens will have jobs but that doesn't explain why wages would inevitably rise. Last time you brought this up you gave an anecdotal account of a company saying they raised their wages because more Caucasians took the jobs from deported illegals. Even if that was the reason, why would all companies with illegal workers react this same way? Where is the statistic proof?

What do you think happens to wages when there are more jobs available than there are workers to fill the jobs. Sit and think about that for a moment.

Here's what happened after some immigration raids on slaughterhouses:

- Fewer Hispanic immigrants are being hired to replace meatpacking workers arrested at
Swift & Co. plants in Grand Island, Neb., and Greeley, Colo., during last week's immigration
raid, union officials said Tuesday.

Local 22 union president Dan Hoppes said Tuesday that 40 to 50 new workers have been hired at the Grand Island plant since the raids.

''The lion's share of those people were Caucasian,'' Hoppes said.. . .

''They're trying to staff up their plants and they've been raising their wages the past few weeks,'' said United Food and Commercial Workers spokeswoman Jill Cashen. ''To me, it's an example that when you make the job more attractive you get a different kind of applicant.'
​

Here's another story:

The United Food and Commercial Workers filed grievances over the company’s interviews, although after the workers left, the Marshalltown plant raised its starting wage from $9.55 to $11.50 in an attempt to fill the vacancies, said Jim Olesen, the union’s local president.​

I'm not sure what your point is with that graph. Are you suggesting it is a bad thing that taxes as a percentage of GDP hasn't lowered by much but the percentage of the top earners has gone down?

Yes, those exact examples you gave about wages lowering because of the deportation is what I was talking about lol. Like I said, anecdotal. You still haven t given me an actual explanation. What is the incentive of businesses raising their wages if their jobs to illegals was replaced by legal Americans?

Forget it. I forgot that I was dealing with you and your demonstrated history of being thick as a wall. You go right on being who you are.

I am responding to your exact information provided. Don't blame me you aren't mature enough to concede that I am correct.

You're too ignorant to understand how supply and demand function in a labor market and I have experience in tutoring you on basic issues and then witnessing your forgetting everything that you've been taught. You're not worth the bother of educating.

Also, i would consider it a bad thing that the tax rate among the top earners has fallen so much. Like I said, Bush's tax cuts have contributed trillions to our national debt. Even if Obama and Bush's big defense spending hadn't increased, the drop in revenue would not have been at a sufficient level to pay our expenses.

See what I mean? Look at the graph and consider your conclusion. Raising tax rates doesn't generate more revenue, so how on Earth could the tax cuts have contributed trillions to our national debt? Look at the graph.

 

[The Rabbi]

Billy "Troll Thread" Triple Zip criticizing anyone else's critical thinking skills is akin to Jeffrey Dahmer criticizing someone else's cooking.

 

[blackhawk]

The left has serious issues with non liberal views you guys don't seem to respect, listen to or want to hear any views or opinions other than your own. Sometimes it seems as though you guys would be truly happy living under a dictator as long as they embraced liberal ideology it seems more and more like you guys want one voice one party rule as long as your the one voice and party of course.

 

[Billy000]

A progressive tax system is what has always been realistic for the economy. Realism trumps what's fair from a philosophical standpoint.

Realism is the historical record. Look at that 92% top tax rate back int he 1950s. See it? Now look lower on the graph and find the green line which shows Income Taxes as a Percent of GDP. Watch that green line REACT to the lowering of the top marginal tax rates. Notice anything?

Explain to me WHY deporting all those illegals would raise wages. Yes more American citizens will have jobs but that doesn't explain why wages would inevitably rise. Last time you brought this up you gave an anecdotal account of a company saying they raised their wages because more Caucasians took the jobs from deported illegals. Even if that was the reason, why would all companies with illegal workers react this same way? Where is the statistic proof?

What do you think happens to wages when there are more jobs available than there are workers to fill the jobs. Sit and think about that for a moment.

Here's what happened after some immigration raids on slaughterhouses:

- Fewer Hispanic immigrants are being hired to replace meatpacking workers arrested at
Swift & Co. plants in Grand Island, Neb., and Greeley, Colo., during last week's immigration
raid, union officials said Tuesday.

Local 22 union president Dan Hoppes said Tuesday that 40 to 50 new workers have been hired at the Grand Island plant since the raids.

''The lion's share of those people were Caucasian,'' Hoppes said.. . .

''They're trying to staff up their plants and they've been raising their wages the past few weeks,'' said United Food and Commercial Workers spokeswoman Jill Cashen. ''To me, it's an example that when you make the job more attractive you get a different kind of applicant.'
​

Here's another story:

The United Food and Commercial Workers filed grievances over the company’s interviews, although after the workers left, the Marshalltown plant raised its starting wage from $9.55 to $11.50 in an attempt to fill the vacancies, said Jim Olesen, the union’s local president.​

I'm not sure what your point is with that graph. Are you suggesting it is a bad thing that taxes as a percentage of GDP hasn't lowered by much but the percentage of the top earners has gone down?

Yes, those exact examples you gave about wages lowering because of the deportation is what I was talking about lol. Like I said, anecdotal. You still haven t given me an actual explanation. What is the incentive of businesses raising their wages if their jobs to illegals was replaced by legal Americans?

Forget it. I forgot that I was dealing with you and your demonstrated history of being thick as a wall. You go right on being who you are.

I am responding to your exact information provided. Don't blame me you aren't mature enough to concede that I am correct.

You're too ignorant to understand how supply and demand function in a labor market and I have experience in tutoring you on basic issues and then witnessing your forgetting everything that you've been taught. You're not worth the bother of educating.

Also, i would consider it a bad thing that the tax rate among the top earners has fallen so much. Like I said, Bush's tax cuts have contributed trillions to our national debt. Even if Obama and Bush's big defense spending hadn't increased, the drop in revenue would not have been at a sufficient level to pay our expenses.

See what I mean? Look at the graph and consider your conclusion. Raising tax rates doesn't generate more revenue, so how on Earth could the tax cuts have contributed trillions to our national debt? Look at the graph.

Lol I don't see how you think I don't understand supply and demand if you haven't explained WHY wages would go up if more illegals were deported.

Explain to me how your graph proves raising taxes doesn't raise revenue. That doesn't make any sense.

I'm not sure you understand revenue as a percentage of GDP. That line has remained consistent because GDP has skyrocketed through the decades and revenue adjusted for inflation has gone down. Their interdependence is becoming less and less part of the equation. That keeps the line consistent. All this has been happening while gov expenses have gone up. Even without Bush and Obama's big spending, we wouldn't have sufficient revenue to keep up with rising gov costs.

 

[Billy000]

The left has serious issues with non liberal views you guys don't seem to respect, listen to or want to hear any views or opinions other than your own. Sometimes it seems as though you guys would be truly happy living under a dictator as long as they embraced liberal ideology it seems more and more like you guys want one voice one party rule as long as your the one voice and party of course.

Lol are you suggesting the rightwing respects any liberal views in comparison?

See I see liberalism as improvement upon old policies. I see it as bettering America through fresh ideas and discarding what we know doesmt work. Conservatives are stuck in the past.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Explain to me how your graph proves raising taxes doesn't raise revenue. That doesn't make any sense.

Look at the graph. Look in particular at the Tax Revenue as a Percent of GDP line at the bottom. What happens to that line as the tax rate drops? Did a lower tax rate produce lower tax revenue?

 

[Billy000]

Explain to me how your graph proves raising taxes doesn't raise revenue. That doesn't make any sense.

Look at the graph. Look in particular at the Tax Revenue as a Percent of GDP line at the bottom. What happens to that line as the tax rate drops? Did a lower tax rate produce lower tax revenue?

You're not taking into account GDP and how it has changed over the decades. The graph you aren't seeing is that GDP has skyrocketed but revenue has not kept up with the increase. That is how why the line remains flat. The line represents the relationship between GDP and revenue. It is not a measurement simply of just revenue.

US Debt by President

The link above is proof of the contribution of Bush's tax cuts to the national debt.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Explain to me how your graph proves raising taxes doesn't raise revenue. That doesn't make any sense.

Look at the graph. Look in particular at the Tax Revenue as a Percent of GDP line at the bottom. What happens to that line as the tax rate drops? Did a lower tax rate produce lower tax revenue?

You're not taking into account GDP and how it has changed over the decades. The graph you aren't seeing is that GDP has skyrocketed but revenue has not kept up with the increase. That is how why the line remains flat. The line represents the relationship between GDP and revenue. It is not a measurement simply of just revenue.

See what I mean? You're ineducable. Look at the label on the Y-axis.

 

[Billy000]

Explain to me how your graph proves raising taxes doesn't raise revenue. That doesn't make any sense.

Look at the graph. Look in particular at the Tax Revenue as a Percent of GDP line at the bottom. What happens to that line as the tax rate drops? Did a lower tax rate produce lower tax revenue?

You're not taking into account GDP and how it has changed over the decades. The graph you aren't seeing is that GDP has skyrocketed but revenue has not kept up with the increase. That is how why the line remains flat. The line represents the relationship between GDP and revenue. It is not a measurement simply of just revenue.

See what I mean? You're ineducable. Look at the label on the Y-axis.

Lol I am. It represents the relationship between GDP and revenue, not simply revenue in terms of raw dollars. I don't know how else to explain that to you. The size of the economy is vital to consider when it comes to measuring revenue.

 

[blackhawk]

The left has serious issues with non liberal views you guys don't seem to respect, listen to or want to hear any views or opinions other than your own. Sometimes it seems as though you guys would be truly happy living under a dictator as long as they embraced liberal ideology it seems more and more like you guys want one voice one party rule as long as your the one voice and party of course.

Lol are you suggesting the rightwing respects any liberal views in comparison?

See I see liberalism as improvement upon old policies. I see it as bettering America through fresh ideas and discarding what we know doesmt work. Conservatives are stuck in the past.

No I'm not suggesting that many on the right are just as bad as many on the left including you are not wanting to hear or accept any view other than your own never willing to acknowledge or even consider the possibility of any answer other than your own being the correct one. The true LOL is your believing that liberalism is bringing us fresh ideas trotting out the same old stale ideas under a different name is not giving us fresh ideas and before you ask no the Republicans aren't bringing us fresh ideas either the difference here is I'm honest enough to admit this about the Republicans you are not about the Democrats.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Explain to me how your graph proves raising taxes doesn't raise revenue. That doesn't make any sense.

Look at the graph. Look in particular at the Tax Revenue as a Percent of GDP line at the bottom. What happens to that line as the tax rate drops? Did a lower tax rate produce lower tax revenue?

You're not taking into account GDP and how it has changed over the decades. The graph you aren't seeing is that GDP has skyrocketed but revenue has not kept up with the increase. That is how why the line remains flat. The line represents the relationship between GDP and revenue. It is not a measurement simply of just revenue.

See what I mean? You're ineducable. Look at the label on the Y-axis.

Lol I am. It represents the relationship between GDP and revenue, not simply revenue in terms of raw dollars. I don't know how else to explain that to you. The size of the economy is vital to consider when it comes to measuring revenue.

You're not in a position to explain anything to me.

Good, so now you know that the tax revenue is measured as a proportion of GDP. Tell us how you propose to increase the tax revenue as a percent of gdp to a higher level. How will you do that?

 

[Billy000]

Explain to me how your graph proves raising taxes doesn't raise revenue. That doesn't make any sense.

Look at the graph. Look in particular at the Tax Revenue as a Percent of GDP line at the bottom. What happens to that line as the tax rate drops? Did a lower tax rate produce lower tax revenue?

You're not taking into account GDP and how it has changed over the decades. The graph you aren't seeing is that GDP has skyrocketed but revenue has not kept up with the increase. That is how why the line remains flat. The line represents the relationship between GDP and revenue. It is not a measurement simply of just revenue.

See what I mean? You're ineducable. Look at the label on the Y-axis.

Lol I am. It represents the relationship between GDP and revenue, not simply revenue in terms of raw dollars. I don't know how else to explain that to you. The size of the economy is vital to consider when it comes to measuring revenue.

You're not in a position to explain anything to me.

Good, so now you know that the tax revenue is measured as a proportion of GDP. Tell us how you propose to increase the tax revenue as a percent of gdp to a higher level. How will you do that?

It's simple really. Raise the tax rate lol. Right now it is around 16%. In 2000, it was 20%. Do you understand that? If we raised the tax rate, the percentage of the GDP will go up. Trust me, based on how high GDP has become, we can afford to raise it.

 

[Rikurzhen]

It's simple really. Raise the tax rate lol.

What do you think the RED line represents?

 

[Billy000]

INCOME INEQUALITY code words for Communism and redistribution

GUN CONTROL Progressives cannot fully implement their Guaranteed Fail Redistribution Scheme until we are unarmed

TAXING is how Liberals put themselves in power. They take from the producers and give to the underclass and illegals. When that fails, they just stuff the ballot box.

RAISING THE MINIMUM WAGE Irrelevant, Liberals don't work. It's a strawman for Redistribution

WELFARE is how Liberals created a Permanent uneducated, underclass that depends on Welfare for their very survival. Once a temporary bootstrap has become an inter-generational way of life

MORONS: Liberals are fucking morons, their ideas sucks and fail but they're too stupid to figure out it ends badly for them

Thank you for proving my point.

 

[Billy000]

It's simple really. Raise the tax rate lol.

What do you think the RED line represents?

Um what the red line tells me is that since the 90's the wealthy haven't paid enough in taxes. See the key piece of info you're missing out on is that GDP before the 70s is not anything like it is now. That's why the green line is so similar to what it is now. If we raised the tax rate to an appropriate level in today's market, revenue would increase. That level I am proposing would be a historic high because GDP is at a historic high. Understand?

 

[The Rabbi]

[QUOTE="Billy000, post: 10045009, member: 33739". That level I am proposing would be a historic high because GDP is at a historic high. Understand?[/QUOTE]
Whut? OMG! Billy Triple Zip goes off the deep end. So stupid it burns.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

#1

The rightwing has a serious issue with critical thinking skills. ...

... Typical over the top generalizations based on shallow talking points that tweak the ear of the mentally infirm.