The Real Problem with America

[Wry Catcher]

You know we spend an awful lot of time arguing back and forth for our chosen Parties, But we are kidding ourselves America. Neither party is the answer to our problems because they are at the core of the problems.

The System is broken. Broken by a constant cycle of Campaigning and Career politicians. Broken because of a 2 party strangle hold on power.

I do not claim to have all the answers but I think 2 very important things that need to happen before America will be heading the right way are:

1 Campaign Finance.
We need to Limit the influence of Money in elections as much as we can. We could start by setting up a way to publicly fiance all campaigns equally. Compel or pay for Network coverage of debates. We should also shorten the campaign time significantly. 2 Years of it means that basically they are never not campaigning.

2 Term Limits.
We must end the career politician. Mainly because people are compelled to act differently when they have to think about re-election then when not. Maybe slightly longer terms but only 1 Term. For Both the President and Congress. No more running for re-election. We also need a more direct tool for removal of People who are not performing up to par, or not living up to their promises. Some kind of Popular Vote of No confidence where if a certain % of Americans. prolly like 3/4's vote no confidence it means we then hold A special Election to replace that person. Be it the President or A Congress person. Maybe let that person then run against the others to try and keep his or her job if he can get the votes.

Like I said I don't claim to have the answers I just know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Neither the Democrats or Republicans Nor anyone working inside our current system has them either, and to continue down our current path is definite National suicide.

Solution 1, I disagree with, Solution 2, I do agree with.

Campaign finance is still a way to limit the FREE SPEECH of individuals and corporations who wish to support their chosen candidates. It's wrong.

Campaign finance is just another way of saying "incumbant protection act."

The better solution is term limits in which I am in total agreement.

Let's do a hypothetical. Joey is a middle manager in xyz corporation. Joey's boss suggests joey take some time off to run for congress - paid time off to be sure. Joey's boss also provides Joey with 10 times the financial resources of the next most well funded competitor and Joey is soon a member of Congress. Joey spends one term in Congress, and when he leaves Joey returns to xyz but no longer as a middle manager, Joey is a director and enjoys a corner office and that tall redhead as his personal assistant.

 

[Avatar4321]

You know we spend an awful lot of time arguing back and forth for our chosen Parties, But we are kidding ourselves America. Neither party is the answer to our problems because they are at the core of the problems.

The System is broken. Broken by a constant cycle of Campaigning and Career politicians. Broken because of a 2 party strangle hold on power.

I do not claim to have all the answers but I think 2 very important things that need to happen before America will be heading the right way are:

1 Campaign Finance.
We need to Limit the influence of Money in elections as much as we can. We could start by setting up a way to publicly fiance all campaigns equally. Compel or pay for Network coverage of debates. We should also shorten the campaign time significantly. 2 Years of it means that basically they are never not campaigning.

2 Term Limits.
We must end the career politician. Mainly because people are compelled to act differently when they have to think about re-election then when not. Maybe slightly longer terms but only 1 Term. For Both the President and Congress. No more running for re-election. We also need a more direct tool for removal of People who are not performing up to par, or not living up to their promises. Some kind of Popular Vote of No confidence where if a certain % of Americans. prolly like 3/4's vote no confidence it means we then hold A special Election to replace that person. Be it the President or A Congress person. Maybe let that person then run against the others to try and keep his or her job if he can get the votes.

Like I said I don't claim to have the answers I just know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Neither the Democrats or Republicans Nor anyone working inside our current system has them either, and to continue down our current path is definite National suicide.

Politicians respond to us.

It is our fault that we elect the politicians we have. We are a fickle bunch screaming about the latest non-issue and quick fix rather than allowing politicians to deliver long term solutions.
With 24/7 news, internet and cable political pundits screaming at every perceived transgression, politicians are afraid to seek bipartisanship, afraid to seek compromise. There is no longer a win-win solution in politics because it allows the other side to win also.

We are getting what we deserve

Stop proposing bad policy and we won't have to worry about the lack of compromise. I don't want politicians compromising for the sake of "getting along". I want them to keep us free and not compromise on any policy that will do the opposite.

There is a time to compromise, that time is not when people are trying to take away your liberties or lives.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

You know we spend an awful lot of time arguing back and forth for our chosen Parties, But we are kidding ourselves America. Neither party is the answer to our problems because they are at the core of the problems.

The System is broken. Broken by a constant cycle of Campaigning and Career politicians. Broken because of a 2 party strangle hold on power.

I do not claim to have all the answers but I think 2 very important things that need to happen before America will be heading the right way are:

You start-out with The Real Problem with America....then go on to list 2 very important things????? ​

Like I said I don't claim to have the answers I just know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Neither the Democrats or Republicans Nor anyone working inside our current system has them either, and to continue down our current path is definite National suicide.

THE Problem, with America, is LAZINESS....pure-and-simple.

We've got TOO MANY people, in this Country....maybe, the MAJORITY....who've never got the time for political-issues, until we hit CRITICAL-MASS!!!!! You want to try to blame The Two-Party System & career-politicians for that?? How LAZY is THAT??!!!!!

The The Two-Party System & career-politicians are merely symptoms of our own DAMNED-LAZINESS!!!!

....And, now.....TEABAGGERS are Comin' To The Rescue??!!! Gimme a fuckin'-BREAK!!!! TOO-many o' these 'Baggers (from all descriptions) are garden-variety YUPPIES.....lookin' for the NEXT hip, trendy thing-to-do!!!! These are the same people who (traditionally) whined & cried about the Permissive '60s & the Anti-War movements.....primarily because they never had the balls, to participate, in-the-past....and, now they see themselves as some kind o' clarions/revolutionaries??!!!!

It was you 'BAGGERS who created the present-situation!!!! You were MUCH-too-busy chasin' Wall $treet Bonu$-Buck$ & Family Values, in-the-past, to PAY any attention to political-issues.....and, NOW you wanna blame everyone ELSE, to magically cancel-out your sense of guilt/embarrassment??!!!

 

[The Rabbi]

EVERY American has a stake in the system. That is what our Constitution was designed to do.

Our elected officials represent everyone, even a bum living under an overpass. As such, everyone has a right and an obligation to vote

Well, no they don't. People who collect welfare have no stake. They have nothing of their own to lose. Everything is provided to them by Big Daddy. Such people have no business voting.
And their reps in Congress still represent them, of course.

how do you know the majority of them vote?

more than 50% of our country's citizens eligible to vote, DO NOT VOTE and the lower class....is who does not exercise their right to vote, the most.

so spare us... with trying to point fingers and blame them for our presidential outcomes.

get more people to vote instead of developing some means to disenfranchise our fellow citizens....sheesh

Nobody said the majority of them vote. That is your strawman again.
Remind me how many votes decided the Florida outcome again? How many welfare class people voted in that election again?

 

[uscitizen]

WE are the problem.
WE make up the political parties.
WE act like puppets for the political parties.
WE always want more and want it now.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

WE are the problem.
WE make up the political parties.
WE act like puppets for the political parties.
WE always want more and want it now.

.....More-often-referred-to as short-term-profit$.
​

 

[Epsilon Delta]

Blaming the problem on the "laziness" of the people is just a lame deflection for not changing the system.

How are Americans lazy? How are they lazier than anyone else? And how do you know? Which country isn't lazy? Americans work more and longer hours than most of the developed world and for less benefits.

If "government handouts" are making people lazy, then are Swedes or Norwegians the laziest people on the planet? Seems kind of an absurd claim to me... What about the Chinese? are they lazy? I mean, they are a bunch of "communists," so in theory they just sit around on their ass collecting government handouts, no? How do they manage to grow their GDP 10% a year then? Are Somalis the hardest-working people then; they've got no handouts, but then again... Not too sure their system is working very well.

To deny that the structure of a system has no effect on its functioning is silly. The structure of a system provides incentives and disincentives that influence people's behavior. Sure, doesn't determine everything. Some people will not follow the incentive, even do it backwards; some will display more of one thing than the average (like being more lazy), but it's still a big determinant. If corporations are allowed to donate with no restrictions, and politicians are able to raise money with no restrictions, and corporations have the most money to give, what's the incentive for the politicians if he wants to get re-elected indefinitely? His constituency is the people who get him elected, and if the way the system is structures is so that money will give you the biggest boost, then your constituency will be those who have the most money to give. It ain't rocket science.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Blaming the problem on the "laziness" of the people is just a lame deflection for not changing the system.

How are Americans lazy? How are they lazier than anyone else? And how do you know? Which country isn't lazy? Americans work more and longer hours than most of the developed world and for less benefits.

Ah, yes....let's magically turn this into an issue of Nationalism.



(Nice lil' amateurish-attempt at distraction. )​

 

[B. Kidd]

Blaming the problem on the "laziness" of the people is just a lame deflection for not changing the system.

How are Americans lazy? How are they lazier than anyone else? And how do you know? Which country isn't lazy? Americans work more and longer hours than most of the developed world and for less benefits.

If "government handouts" are making people lazy, then are Swedes or Norwegians the laziest people on the planet? Seems kind of an absurd claim to me... What about the Chinese? are they lazy? I mean, they are a bunch of "communists," so in theory they just sit around on their ass collecting government handouts, no? How do they manage to grow their GDP 10% a year then? Are Somalis the hardest-working people then; they've got no handouts, but then again... Not too sure their system is working very well.

To deny that the structure of a system has no effect on its functioning is silly. The structure of a system provides incentives and disincentives that influence people's behavior. Sure, doesn't determine everything. Some people will not follow the incentive, even do it backwards; some will display more of one thing than the average (like being more lazy), but it's still a big determinant. If corporations are allowed to donate with no restrictions, and politicians are able to raise money with no restrictions, and corporations have the most money to give, what's the incentive for the politicians if he wants to get re-elected indefinitely? His constituency is the people who get him elected, and if the way the system is structures is so that money will give you the biggest boost, then your constituency will be those who have the most money to give. It ain't rocket science.

Great post!!!
The reason I think we should start with 2 term 4 year limits for congressmen is because an attrition of the amount of campaign finance money will naturally occur with donors knowing that a particular congressperson won't have their ass planted in congress for more than 8 years (as opposed to 20-30 years). Also within an 8 year term limit, you won't see a congressman change their party affiliation just to remain with the privileged.

 

[Woyzeck]

"THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN GET AMERICAN'S ATTENTION IS TO TAX THEM OR DRAFT THEM OR KILL THEM." -Owen Meany.

It's not that we're lazy, it's just that many of us don't particularly care about politics enough to extend the power we actually do have as voting citizens. The system isn't broke, we are. We aren't lazy because of welfare handouts, we're lazy because of our indifference or the feeling of inability to do effect change on our own government. The cliche excuse that comes to mind is "my vote doesn't matter" or "one vote never made a difference" etc.

In reality, we've got all the power in the world to affect change, we just can't do it or expect it to happen automatically as we sit in front of our TV or computer screen. Your representative in Congress and Senator are required to answer to their constituents. You can call their offices, write a letter, e-mail them about any information regarding any bill currently in Congress somewhere or to let them know how you feel on a certain political issue. It extends to more than just the voting booth.

The problem is... people don't care, as I used the above quote to illustrate. It takes a lot to get a good number of people to care about an issue. Most are far too busy (as Epsilon most excellently pointed out) with work or something else. Most people would rather be entertained than think of well thought-out political ideas you want implemented or to be active in politics. It's a lot of work for something that probably won't even get through on the first time. It's easier for people to just not care and go watch their favorite show, or focus on work (something which has actual results they can see and feel) or something else. It's what Aldous Huxley was warning against in Brave New World, our infinite appetite for distractions that let our country slip away and make ourselves feel dis-empowered in it, even if it's really not that way.

The only thing I would recommend as a solution is encouraging everyone to be more informed of current events, candidates, political issues, and for participation in government. There's not much else to recommend, you can't force people to participate, that would defeat the point and existence of the freedoms we have in this republic. Promoting participation in government, civics, in our public schools would be another good starting point. Teach our kids (both in and out of school, c'mon start parenting) what they can do to effect change within the government. Use the local and state governments as an example. You have to try to at least encourage people not to give in to the infinite appetite for distractions and apathy towards government.

The system itself is still, for better or worse, more or less the same as its always been. This failure of government, this disaffection for government stems from us, the people, for not taking part in it and not taking responsibility when we feel powerless. Restricting who can vote doesn't accomplish a damn thing except set us back a hundred and fifty years. All citizens vote, regardless of net worth, property, race, color, creed or gender.

 

[FA_Q2]

The idea in the OP is interesting and, while I agree with Woyzeck, I also believe there are improvements that need to be made to the system in general. Campaign finance is the largest issue because no matter how energized you get the voting population they can only vote on what they know and that is typically created by the amount of money and advertising one campaign has over another. I am not sure exactly how you would accomplish this though. Perhaps the best method would be to simply limit the max contribution any politician can receive from any single source. If the corporations were brought down to a more reasonable donation level it would be difficult for an industry to purchase an election in the manner that is done today.


On the second point, I am somewhat divided. Whenever someone speaks about term limits they forget that we WANT the politicians to care about reelection. It is a good thing that politicians are interested in public opinion about their actions. If all politicians were cut down to a single term then there would be no accounting for doing the job they were hired for because there would not be anything that the voting public could do. Career politicians may be a problem but it is the people that continually vote those people into office and if the people want them back I cannot see a reason to deny it.

 

[pans trogladyta]

I disagree with both ideas and think they will make things worse.
The reason for bad politicians is a bad electorate. Improve the electorate and you improve the people they elect.
Property ownership or freehold requirements for voting will change most of that.

So, basically, poor people can't vote?

 

[pans trogladyta]

You know we spend an awful lot of time arguing back and forth for our chosen Parties, But we are kidding ourselves America. Neither party is the answer to our problems because they are at the core of the problems.

The System is broken. Broken by a constant cycle of Campaigning and Career politicians. Broken because of a 2 party strangle hold on power.

I do not claim to have all the answers but I think 2 very important things that need to happen before America will be heading the right way are:

1 Campaign Finance.
We need to Limit the influence of Money in elections as much as we can. We could start by setting up a way to publicly fiance all campaigns equally. Compel or pay for Network coverage of debates. We should also shorten the campaign time significantly. 2 Years of it means that basically they are never not campaigning.

2 Term Limits.
We must end the career politician. Mainly because people are compelled to act differently when they have to think about re-election then when not. Maybe slightly longer terms but only 1 Term. For Both the President and Congress. No more running for re-election. We also need a more direct tool for removal of People who are not performing up to par, or not living up to their promises. Some kind of Popular Vote of No confidence where if a certain % of Americans. prolly like 3/4's vote no confidence it means we then hold A special Election to replace that person. Be it the President or A Congress person. Maybe let that person then run against the others to try and keep his or her job if he can get the votes.

Like I said I don't claim to have the answers I just know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Neither the Democrats or Republicans Nor anyone working inside our current system has them either, and to continue down our current path is definite National suicide.

Politicians respond to us.

It is our fault that we elect the politicians we have. We are a fickle bunch screaming about the latest non-issue and quick fix rather than allowing politicians to deliver long term solutions.
With 24/7 news, internet and cable political pundits screaming at every perceived transgression, politicians are afraid to seek bipartisanship, afraid to seek compromise. There is no longer a win-win solution in politics because it allows the other side to win also.

We are getting what we deserve

True, unfortunate, but true.

 

[pans trogladyta]

You know we spend an awful lot of time arguing back and forth for our chosen Parties, But we are kidding ourselves America. Neither party is the answer to our problems because they are at the core of the problems.

The System is broken. Broken by a constant cycle of Campaigning and Career politicians. Broken because of a 2 party strangle hold on power.

I do not claim to have all the answers but I think 2 very important things that need to happen before America will be heading the right way are:

1 Campaign Finance.
We need to Limit the influence of Money in elections as much as we can. We could start by setting up a way to publicly fiance all campaigns equally. Compel or pay for Network coverage of debates. We should also shorten the campaign time significantly. 2 Years of it means that basically they are never not campaigning.

2 Term Limits.
We must end the career politician. Mainly because people are compelled to act differently when they have to think about re-election then when not. Maybe slightly longer terms but only 1 Term. For Both the President and Congress. No more running for re-election. We also need a more direct tool for removal of People who are not performing up to par, or not living up to their promises. Some kind of Popular Vote of No confidence where if a certain % of Americans. prolly like 3/4's vote no confidence it means we then hold A special Election to replace that person. Be it the President or A Congress person. Maybe let that person then run against the others to try and keep his or her job if he can get the votes.

Like I said I don't claim to have the answers I just know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Neither the Democrats or Republicans Nor anyone working inside our current system has them either, and to continue down our current path is definite National suicide.

Solution 1, I disagree with, Solution 2, I do agree with.

Campaign finance is still a way to limit the FREE SPEECH of individuals and corporations who wish to support their chosen candidates. It's wrong.

Campaign finance is just another way of saying "incumbant protection act."

The better solution is term limits in which I am in total agreement.

Corporations have no business in politics, they are part of the problem, as is the Santa Clara decision and other supreme court nonsense.

 

[The Rabbi]

I disagree with both ideas and think they will make things worse.
The reason for bad politicians is a bad electorate. Improve the electorate and you improve the people they elect.
Property ownership or freehold requirements for voting will change most of that.

So, basically, poor people can't vote?

If you have no stake in the system, nothing to lose, why should you have a say in how other people's money is spent?

 

[uscitizen]

It depends on your perspective. If you are a large corporation the system is improving.

 

[The Rabbi]

It depends on your perspective. If you are a large corporation the system is improving.

Because now the gov't can take over your business?

 

[pans trogladyta]

I disagree with both ideas and think they will make things worse.
The reason for bad politicians is a bad electorate. Improve the electorate and you improve the people they elect.
Property ownership or freehold requirements for voting will change most of that.

So, basically, poor people can't vote?

If you have no stake in the system, nothing to lose, why should you have a say in how other people's money is spent?

Your first two statements are presumptions. Even if I was on welfare I would still have a stake in the system. Why should you have a say in how other people's money is spent? It works both ways, you are voting on how money is spent that doesn't belong to you, why shouldn't I be able to?

 

[Mr. Peepers]

If you have no stake in the system, nothing to lose, why should you have a say in how other people's money is spent?

Again, fascist/corporatist ASSHOLE, the poor pay much into the system. They pay payroll taxes on a penance if they do get a paycheck. They pay into social security and through rent, property taxes. They also pay sales tax on everything they buy. In fact, they probably pay MORE of a percentage of their meager income than middle class and wealthy people. So shut up with the "poor do not contribute" bullshit.

 

[Care4all]

I disagree with both ideas and think they will make things worse.
The reason for bad politicians is a bad electorate. Improve the electorate and you improve the people they elect.
Property ownership or freehold requirements for voting will change most of that.

So, basically, poor people can't vote?

If you have no stake in the system, nothing to lose, why should you have a say in how other people's money is spent?

SHEESH....and republicans CLAIM it is the liberals pitting the welathier against the poor....

you are the second republican in 24 hours that has done such....

why do republicans have to lie about themselves pitting the rich against the poor saying that this is what liberals do when it is THEIR AMMO....THEY DO IT ALL THE TIME.....what an elitist attitude Rabbi!