The Real Jew?

[georgephillip]

Can US Jews be supportive of Israel but critical of its policies?

Are such Jews not "real Jews?"

Let's ask Ira Stup:

"Ira Stup was raised in Philadelphia attending Jewish day school and camps. He found his home in the Jewish community and was “intoxicated with Jewish democracy” as framed in the ideals of Israel’s foundation.

"Now he has returned deeply troubled from a one-year fellowship based in Tel Aviv.

"The worst single incident occurred on Ben Yehuda Street in central Jerusalem. Stup, 24, a Columbia graduate, was returning from a rally with a couple of friends carrying a banner that said, 'Zionists are not settlers.'

"A group of religious Jews wearing yarmulkes approached, spat on them and started punching.

"About 20 people saw the whole thing and just watched. They were screaming, ‘You are not real Jews.’ Most of them were American.

"It was one of the most disappointing moments of my life — you can disagree as much as you want with a banner but to allow violence and not react is outrageous.

"'For me it was a turning point. Nobody previously had said I was not a real Jew.'”

Ira has a simple question for Real Jews:

"Why is it poisoning minds to encourage them to think critically about the actions of the Israeli government?"

The Real Jew...

 

[Truthmatters]

There are many jews who do not follow blindly what ever the current government of Isreal says.

There will always be people who fail the moral test of what is wrong or what is right.

Even in the jewish religion.

The truth will win one day, that day is far away.

 

[P F Tinmore]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enTbBx622-8[/ame]

 

[editec]

Jews do NOT have a single POV about Isreal.

Naturally with an issue that is so complex and contentious, hot blooded people tend to over react.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Again, like the last time you brought this topic up, Why such a huge amount of hate for one particular group? Why are Jews different from Irish, Koreans, Germans, Kenyans?

 

[Ropey]

We Jews who are connected with our belief and Israel have certain considerations that have followed us in the thousands and thousands and thousands of years in which we have been attacked with the attempts to render our race dissolute. We have evolved a genetic aversion towards anything that might be an attempt to dissolve us, and our history is taught to us well.

So, Israel is ours again, and we will hold it until the end of times or the end of Israel as the history given to us by our one G-d.

We were stewed in the repetition of forsaking our G-d and paying a heavy price.

No more! Yes, there are those among us who decry Israel and have their own interpretations.

They have been so at every nexus point in time where the Jews, as a people had to decide if it was worth it to continue on with the book, belief, traditions, etc. Keep in mind it is no simple easy thing to be a devoutly practicing Jew. The true devout do not see tradition, they are past that mundane thinking. They decry the Jewish fanatics. The Israeli people hold their government accountable, but the fear of dissolution is palpable and now, having their country again, they will not let it go unless it is the end of times and that time is not yet come.

That's why I said I understand when Mike said Israel had to take the first hit for any American return response. I understand this thinking. Israel has been destroyed many times and rebuilt. There are those Jews who also believe that not only is this going to happen, but that it should happen in that way. Iran attempts to 'hasten' this ending for the ending is co-existent with their return of the "twelfth Imam."

No other belief thinks they can hasten G-d's time. Iranian Shia leadership believe that they can.

Their creation of a nuclear pile is not for protection I put forward. They say that they are not even creating one, that it is against their belief.

Meanwhile they continue enriching uranium past the twenty percent need for medical isotopes.

There is a reason why such a small population of slow breeding people should outlive all the Empires. Still we have those who want to ensure we as Jews are all gone, and if not gone, then Israel gone so that our book's ending is incomplete.

To fulfill the prophesy we must have Israel. Jerusalem? Negotiable. We do not need Jerusalem to fulfill the prophesy. That's why we accepted the partition without Jerusalem in the first place.

There's much on the negotiating table if our Arabian brethren truly look towards a peace. That's the secular point of view. The true Jewish point of view is we must hold Israel whatever the cost.

We will...

I compiled my own little page of Israel's history for anyone who wishes to read it.

I think this will address both the secular and the more conservative practicing Jew. This does NOT address our fanatics. We have them as well. Israel's Democracy marginalizes their attempts to radicalize our people, who are far more humane and Democratic than any Arabian country in the Middle East. All one has to do is search the populations of the Middle Eastern Arabian countries to see if they incorporate other beliefs and value systems in their countries.

Israel is created to be attacked by all sides. Well, the definition of 'sides' has changed to 'tangents and enough of them to create a circle that is worldwide. The attacks are certainly global in nature. Long before an Internet and we see their efforts here.

Each time it was through our determined drive to survive that has maintained us. We continued through the The Assyrian Empire's attempt to exterminate us, and its expulsion of ten (of our twelve) tribes in an attempt to separate us from our Law, books and traditions. They took multitudes of our best people as slaves to Mesopotamia which is where Iraq and Iran are now. They are gone... We remain...

We continue that we followed our laws in our book and remembered where we had come from and where we were to return. The Babylonians conquered we recreated those Israeli cities three times to end with the final destruction of Israel and our temple of Jerusalem.

We continue that we kept The Law, as we were chosen to, or we would all be Egyptian/Babylonian pagans. They are gone... We remain...

We continue that we did not surrender our belief to the incoming Greeks after we had rebuilt Israel and its great Second Temple. We are a slow breeding people. There has never been more than twenty million Jewry worldwide. We are estimated this year to be thirteen million souls but I digress. Alexander was not a man to estimate lightly. Research this man if you want to see his warring abilities. Ah, we were with him for a bit. We translated our book and gave it to them in the name of the "Septuagint". All was well until the Greek ruler Antiochus Epiphanes decided he was a G-d (hence the term epiphany – remember its birth and use it wisely) and moved to destroy the Jews belief. Research him to see his methods. He didn't destroy the Second Temple, but he did desecrate it with his likenesses, etc. etc. and he came to pass a law requiring the devoutly Monotheistic Jews to come in four times a year on their Sabbath day of prayer to bow to him as senior G-d. Simply put, We revolted and it was this Maccebean revolt where we gained our independence. They are gone... We remain...

Finally we have Israel recreated, and are back in our land, which G-d gave us, and which our book says we must hold for the end of times, and which all three books state is coming and will come from (Israel). Life was good for about a hundred years but we were close to this failing Empires end.

We continue that we understood the wants of the Roman Empire who came and picked up the Empiric pieces. Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus (Pompey, for short) has us in his grasp, but the Romans are happy just to financially gain and Pompey is a hedonist which is easily determined by the statuary the old goat left behind him. They are gone... We remain...

We continue in that we did move through and about the birth of and death of Jesus Christ with his concurrent new belief extension. Christianity, became a world wide religion when it was translated to the Greek, in much the same way that the Jews translated their book into Greek, extending it throughout the known world. Such a small race of people made this tiny Semitic belief world wide. We remained intact...

We continue that we did not surrender to a Roman edict proscribing circumcision (our major covenant with G-d) to be self-mutilation and thus against Roman law, and fought to the death rather than accede to this mundane commandment regarding our very covenant with our G-d. They are gone... We remain...

Thus were we scattered to the known worlds winds, still with our language, traditions and the plethora in dissertations of our book and traditions and which we have carried through all our trials.

We continue through the many pogroms and attempts to end us and our belief because we had learned. Our G-d has trained us well. There will always be a kernel of Judaism to create another if destroyed Israel, but I believe the time of renewal is over and we now will never let go. All these Empires have come and gone. We remain. Why? Because we have an genetic aversion to dissolution, tempered in the fires of our G-d's wrath for forsaking him earlier. We will not forsake him again.

Some think the term, "Never Again" stands for the holocaust, but it stands for losing Israel and NEVER AGAIN! IT will be a high price to pay if Iran is willing to fight to the last Arabian as long as it "hastens" the coming of their twelfth Imam. One can not hasten the will of G-d, so if it happens, it was meant to happen.
​

 

[Jos]

Meanwhile they continue enriching uranium past the twenty percent need for medical isotopes.

I suggest you made that up, got any proof?

Hi, you have received -3 reputation points from Ropey.
Reputation was given for this post.

Thanks, thats all the "proof" I need

 

[Ropey]

Meanwhile they continue enriching uranium past the twenty percent need for medical isotopes.

I suggest you made that up, got any proof?

I suggest that you have no understanding of any history. Research on your own. You might learn to remove yourself from your hate with reality.

Somehow, I doubt it. I do not need to convince you. Others here will read, do their own research if they don't believe it, they will respond with questions.

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation."​

You are stuck.

 

[Jos]

Jennifer Peto's thesis is online
Jennifer Peto's thesis, entitled The Victimhood of the Powerful: White Jews, Zionism and the Racism of Hegemonic Holocaust Education, is available at: http://hdl.handle.net/1807/24619

Abstract:

This paper focuses on issues of Jewish identity, whiteness and victimhood within hegemonic Holocaust education. I argue that today, Jewish people of European descent enjoy white privilege and are among the most socio-economically advantaged groups in the West. Despite this privilege, the organized Jewish community makes claims about Jewish victimhood that are widely accepted within that community and within popular discourse in the West. I propose that these claims to victimhood are no longer based in a reality of oppression, but continue to be propagated because a victimized Jewish identity can produce certain effects that are beneficial to the organized Jewish community and the Israeli nation-state.

 

[Jos]

Meanwhile they continue enriching uranium past the twenty percent need for medical isotopes.

I suggest you made that up, got any proof?

I suggest that you have no understanding of any history. Research on your own. You might learn to remove yourself from your hate with reality.

Somehow, I doubt it. I do not need to convince you. Others here will read, do their own research if they don't believe it, they will respond with questions.

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation."​

You are stuck.

I Already checked, There is no claim that Iran is "enriching uranium past the twenty percent need for medical isotopes." You made that up

 

[Ropey]

What part of the history don't you believe?

As far as enrichment goes, it is clear to my people. You choose not to believe this, then that is fine.

I believe it. My people believe it and I stand to my people's history that shows their resistance to dissolution.

We do not need to be hit with a stick to know the stick is coming.

 

[Ropey]

You want to see the stick, fine. Wait. We fight the stick before it comes, but it is there....

Hitler said he would not invade Poland. Ones like you said that it was just bluster and to give him everything he wanted up to that point since he would not invade Poland.

Believe what you wish.

 

[Truthmatters]

I just wish all religions were more about love of their fellow man then they are right now in history.

I truely believe that all major religions where started in the name of peace.

So few seem to be able to walk that road today.

 

[Jos]

What part of the history don't you believe?

As far as enrichment goes, it is clear to my people. You choose not to believe this, then that is fine.

I believe it. My people believe it and I stand to my people's history that shows their resistance to dissolution.

We do not need to be hit with a stick to know the stick is coming.

When One makes a statement, one should be prepared to back it up with evidence, such as a link, otherwise people may think you made it up. For the record Iran has stated

As a signatory to the NPT, Iran has right to enrich uranium for civilian purposes.

“We have the capability to enrich uranium more than 20 percent or 80 percent but we don’t enrich because we don’t need it,”

tehran times : Ahmadinejad: First package of uranium enriched to 20% made

 

[Jos]

You want to see the stick, fine. Wait. We fight the stick before it comes, but it is there....

Hitler said he would not invade Poland. Ones like you said that it was just bluster and to give him everything he wanted up to that point since he would not invade Poland.

Believe what you wish.

I believe You made up a lie and are now trying to obfuscate being pulled up

 

[Ropey]

For the record Iran has stated

“We have the capability to enrich uranium more than 20 percent or 80 percent but we don’t enrich because we don’t need it,”

tehran times : Ahmadinejad: First package of uranium enriched to 20% made

Nejad has also stated that there are no homosexuals in Iran. Do you believe that also. Watch the response when he states Iran has no homosexuals.

Nu?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_3RUwAJ_MI[/ame]

 

[P F Tinmore]

For the record Iran has stated

“We have the capability to enrich uranium more than 20 percent or 80 percent but we don’t enrich because we don’t need it,”

tehran times : Ahmadinejad: First package of uranium enriched to 20% made

Nejad has also stated that there are no homosexuals in Iran. Do you believe that also. Watch the response when he states Iran has no homosexuals.

Nu?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_3RUwAJ_MI[/ame]

Homosexuals are enriched past 20% in Iran?

 

[Ropey]

For the record Iran has stated

“We have the capability to enrich uranium more than 20 percent or 80 percent but we don’t enrich because we don’t need it,”

tehran times : Ahmadinejad: First package of uranium enriched to 20% made

Nejad has also stated that there are no homosexuals in Iran. Do you believe that also. Watch the response when he states Iran has no homosexuals.

Nu?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_3RUwAJ_MI[/ame]

Homosexuals are enriched past 20% in Iran?

A liar is a liar.

 

[ekrem]

The current Israelian Coalition Government resembles a coalition between
- Republicans
- TeaParty
- Church
- a marginalized Ehud Barak (center left).

In this coalition the Tea Party holds the Foreign Ministry and the Ministry for Domestic Security.
So, what is the achievements of this government?

- A loyality oath
- rising prominence of national-religious Rabbis to influence society (
---- Top rabbis move to forbid renting homes to Arabs, say 'racism originated in the Torah' - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News
---- Rabbi Ovadia Yosef says in Saturday sermon that 'Goyim have no place in the world - only to serve the People of Israel' - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News
(...)

It is not surprising for me what Cohen in New York Times is describing about what has happened to the progressive US Jew visiting Israel.
The direction of the wind is coming from right.

The TeaParty of Israel is blaming the leaders of Israeli Arabs for Jewish Israelian rascisim against them, the TeaParty comments the annual democracy index poll released by the Israel Democracy Institute. The poll says, that 33 percent of Israeli Jews think Israeli Arabs should be placed in internment camps in the event of a war, and 53 percent of Israeli Jews voiced support for the state encouraging Arabs to emigrate:
Lieberman blames Arab leaders for rising racism among Israeli Jews - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

 

[ekrem]

Jews do NOT have a single POV about Isreal.

Naturally with an issue that is so complex and contentious, hot blooded people tend to over react.

Poll by Tel Aviv University

- more than half agreed that "there is too much freedom of expression" in Israel
- most of the respondents (...) support punishing journalists who report news that reflects badly on the actions of the defense establishment.
- 65 percent (...) think the Israeli media should be barred from publishing news that defense officials think could endanger state security, even if the news was reported abroad
- 43 percent said the media should not report information confirmed by Palestinian sources that could reflect poorly on the Israeli army

Poll: Majority of Israel's Jews back gag on rights groups - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News