The real enemy

[Steelplate]

Your question is a little extreme.
Let's try something more real world.
My mother is 83 and in great health (she works out in the gym every day). However it is possible she has contracted stomach cancer. Now, she could get expensive surgery and chemo and could live into her 90s. Or she could jsut get palliative care and live 9 months. Which should she get, given that palliative care will be about 10% of full treatment? And who ought to make that decision?

First off, sorry about your mom, that sucks. I lost my mom in 2004. As far as the decision, it should be her choice... but the option of surgery and Chemo that would extend her life 7-10 years should be on the table.

Let's make it a little tougher.... let's suppose your mom's options are take palliative care and living 9 months of relative comfort, or taking the chemo/surg option as a hail mary and living a possible 2 years in misery?

One thing I've found out over the years. Quality of life is just as important(if not more) than quantity of life. But once again, it should be her choice. But, at the same time... both options should be presented to her... That's what "end of life counseling" is. To allow people in situations like that to be well informed of their options and to allow them to make that tough choice.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Good point, so the solution is obviously to start collecting something from the 40% of Americans who currently pay NO federal income taxes. Wouldn't you agree?

It's actually 47% thanks to the GOP tax cuts to buy votes.

The Bush tax cuts alone raised it from 25% to 47%. You know, the tax cuts CON$ want to make PERMANENT so they can permanently whine about people paying no federal income taxes.

I agree. The Democrats need to abolish the Bush tax cuts so the working poor, enlisted military, seniors and single moms with 4 kids have to fork over some of their money to the government.

Aren't you glad you helped me make my point?

Did I get that right?

No....you didn't get that right.

What....is Porky Limbaugh STILL trying to sell that re-heated horseshit???

​

August 5, 1996​

"The vast majority of taxpayers saw no change in their income taxes as a result of the 1993 law. CBO estimates that most households paid only $38 more per year, as a result of the 4.3 cent per gallon increase in the gas tax."

Typical Right-Wing Desperation​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I find it pathetic that anyone - no matter who they are (including the President) - would call other Americans 'enemies' because they happen to disagree politically. Those people - the ones who stir up 'hatred' by calling other Americans 'enemies'... they are the dangerous people. They are the enemy. They are the enemy of America and everything it stands for.

Were the people who killed 3,000 Americans on 9/11 the 'enemy'?

Then what would you call people who promote continuing a for profit private health care cartel that kills 45,000 Americans every year?

Kapitali$t$.​

BILL MOYERS: You told Congress that the industry has hijacked our health care system and turned it into a giant ATM for Wall Street. You said, "I saw how they confuse their customers and dump the sick, all so they can satisfy their Wall Street investors." How do they satisfy their Wall Street investors?

WENDELL POTTER: Well, there's a measure of profitability that investors look to, and it's called a medical loss ratio. And it's unique to the health insurance industry. And by medical loss ratio, I mean that it's a measure that tells investors or anyone else how much of a premium dollar is used by the insurance company to actually pay medical claims. And that has been shrinking, over the years, since the industry's been dominated by, or become dominated by for-profit insurance companies. Back in the early '90s, or back during the time that the Clinton plan was being debated, 95 cents out of every dollar was sent, you know, on average was used by the insurance companies to pay claims. Last year, it was down to just slightly above 80 percent.

So, investors want that to keep shrinking. And if they see that an insurance company has not done what they think meets their expectations with the medical loss ratio, they'll punish them. Investors will start leaving in droves.

I've seen a company stock price fall 20 percent in a single day, when it did not meet Wall Street's expectations with this medical loss ratio.

For example, if one company's medical loss ratio was 77.9 percent, for example, in one quarter, and the next quarter, it was 78.2 percent. It seems like a small movement. But investors will think that's ridiculous. And it's horrible.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QwX_soZ1GI]YouTube - ‪BILL MOYERS JOURNAL | Wendell Potter | PBS‬‏[/ame]​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I find it pathetic that anyone - no matter who they are (including the President) - would call other Americans 'enemies' because they happen to disagree politically. Those people - the ones who stir up 'hatred' by calling other Americans 'enemies'... they are the dangerous people. They are the enemy. They are the enemy of America and everything it stands for.

Were the people who killed 3,000 Americans on 9/11 the 'enemy'?

Then what would you call people who promote continuing a for profit private health care cartel that kills 45,000 Americans every year?

What would you call people who decimate environmental protections and promote dirty energy cartels that kill thousands of American every year?

???

I find it unsurprisingly pathetic that you would use the dead of 9-11 for partisan political point scoring.

.....As-opposed-to using them to launch a War against Iraq, right?



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPJCPcYCupY]YouTube - ‪WMD LIES - Bush Cheney Rumsfeld - THE ULTIMATE CLIP (Edited)‬‏[/ame]​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Boy, the left simply can't operate without a boogeyman, can it?

We've always been able to rely on The Republican Party to supply.....

....such people.

​

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Well, McConnell has made it clear to all. The GOP is the enemy of the working and middle class. Anything that we have gained since 1900, they wish to reverse. From unions to Social Security and Medicare, their goald is to terminate the gains made by the majority of American Citizens.

We see what has happened in Wisconsin, now we are seeing the GOP's true goals in the upcoming battle over the debt ceiling. The GOP cares absolutely nothing about the average American, and regards them simply as useful idiots, or fodder to be used in empire building.

They would gut the sytems that protect the seniors in this nation, and take us back to the days when surviving to old age meant poverty for the vast majority that did that. Their goal is for older citizens to die as quickly as possible when then can no longer earn a profit for the corperations. Reducing access to medical care and maintenance pharmceuticals is a very good way to do that.

Time to give all them a permenant vacation. We cannot afford the toadies of the corperations in power any longer.

And yet you say nothing about the Democrats in Massachusetts removing bargaining rights from their State employees? Does that make them the enemy too? Or is that somehow different?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I find it pathetic that anyone - no matter who they are (including the President) - would call other Americans 'enemies' because they happen to disagree politically. Those people - the ones who stir up 'hatred' by calling other Americans 'enemies'... they are the dangerous people. They are the enemy. They are the enemy of America and everything it stands for.

February 6, 2008
RUSH: Mr. McCain, Ronaldus Magnus did reach out to Democrats -- to defeat them! ... They are the enemy! They are to be defeated.

February 10, 2008
RUSH: you do not know the left in this country. You do not know the enemy.

February 11, 2008
RUSH: See, I think liberalism needs to be beaten back; I think it needs to be defeated; I think politically it is the enemy; ... It has to be beaten, not joined, not be reached out to, not be gotten along with, not worked with. It needs to be beaten

"Rush said that he though most people are incredibly gullible, and he felt that the key to radio programming was to reach that crowd, and that it would be really, really easy. He thought he thought he could get anyone to believe anything he said, and the more outrageous is was, the more they would believe it."

Rusty Limbaugh; A Pig Denied​

​

 

[Bfgrn]

WOW, what a reach on your part.

Really? Then perhaps you can explain this:

Oh, I get it...you right wing parrots get to squawk all the Faux news lies about Obama and Democrats, and liberals should keep their mouths shut.

If you're a conservative, why are you so passionately defending Obama and Democrats?

You see, it's because you're an Obama cheerleader, just like I said.

Do you have a reading problem or a comprehension problem? Seriously, I told you I am a JFK liberal. Did you read my post where I said I am more of a conservative than today's conservatives. That's because today's conservatives are NOT conservative. They are radicals, fanatics, authoritarians and narcissists. READ IT. If you can't understand what I said, ask an adult for help.

Oh, I read it. I even understood it. And it's bullshit.

JFK IS a conservative by today's standards. "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." That's the complete opposite of the current Democrat platform.

And JFK wouldn't support Obama like you do.

You're a leftist liberal. There really is no denying that basic fact. Your charade is both childish and utterly ineffective.

No matter how much you stamp your feet and pout.

You clearly didn't understand what I wrote, but I am not at all surprised. You are a word bound right winger.

I am a liberal just like John F. Kennedy was a liberal. You know nothing about the man, and you could never match my knowledge of the JFK.

Ironic, you're able to quote a famous line from his Inauguration but you can't absorb the meaning. It is the antithesis of today's Ayn Rand narcissists. It is not a declaration of individual over country, it is the exact opposite. President Kennedy constantly talked about serving the great republic and he put serving the public interest ahead of personal gain. And he believed the wealthy had the greatest obligation to contribute.

President John F. Kennedy
Amherst, Massachusetts
October 26, 1963

"Many years ago, Woodrow Wilson said, what good is a political party unless it is serving a great national purpose? And what good is a private college or university unless it is serving a great national purpose? The Library being constructed today, this college, itself--all of this, of course, was not done merely to give this school's graduates an advantage, an economic advantage, in the life struggle. It does do that. But in return for that, in return for the great opportunity which society gives the graduates of this and related schools, it seems to me incumbent upon this and other schools' graduates to recognize their responsibility to the public interest.

Privilege is here, and with privilege goes responsibility. And I think, as your president said, that it must be a source of satisfaction to you that this school's graduates have recognized it. I hope that the students who are here now will also recognize it in the future. Although Amherst has been in the forefront of extending aid to needy and talented students, private colleges, taken as a whole, draw 50 percent of their students from the wealthiest 10 percent of our Nation. And even State universities and other public institutions derive 25 percent of their students from this group. In March 1962, persons of 18 years or older who had not completed high school made up 46 percent of the total labor force, and such persons comprised 64 percent of those who were unemployed. And in 1958, the lowest fifth of the families in the United States had 4 1/2 percent of the total personal income, the highest fifth, 44 1/2 percent. There is inherited wealth in this country and also inherited poverty. And unless the graduates of this college and other colleges like it who are given a running start in life--unless they are willing to put back into our society, those talents, the broad sympathy, the understanding, the compassion--unless they are willing to put those qualities back into the service of the Great Republic, then obviously the presuppositions upon which our democracy are based are bound to be fallible."


If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich.
President John F. Kennedy

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Boy, the left simply can't operate without a boogeyman, can it?

That's because they have no idea's, no common sense concerning economics. All they know how to do is spend other people's money.. They're a bunch of fuckin Klepto's.

Yeah....that's what's been happening.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Boy, the left simply can't operate without a boogeyman, can it?

That's because they have no idea's, no common sense concerning economics. All they know how to do is spend other people's money.. They're a bunch of fuckin Klepto's.

Yeah....that's what's been happening.

I notice you left out Obama's debt. I wonder why?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Boy, the left simply can't operate without a boogeyman, can it?

Way to parrot your MessiahRushie.

I don't listen to Rush, you moron.

Ah, yes.....another....

....Fair & Balanced "conservative".....

....are you??

​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Why bring Ed Schultz in to the conversation?

Do you really want to compare the Rush 'the drugster' and draft dodger to Ed Shultz, All-American quarterback and NAIA passing leader in 1977?

Although Rush's fat ass is famous...he was able to get out of serving in the during the Vietnam War when he got a medical deferment from a private doctor. Poor Rush had a dreaded pilonidal cyst on his posterior...translation: an ingrown hair follicle on his ass...

So when Rush uses drugs = BAD.. When DingleBarry snorts cocaine = GOOD. Bubba dodged serving = GOOD.. Rush = BAD. Thanks for showing us what a moronic political hack you are. You're not very good at defending your own.. LMFAO..

​

 

[daveman]

Boy, the left simply can't operate without a boogeyman, can it?

We've always been able to rely on The Republican Party to supply.....

....such people.

​

The left also never met a dictator they didn't love.

 

[daveman]

You clearly didn't understand what I wrote, but I am not at all surprised. You are a word bound right winger.

I am a liberal just like John F. Kennedy was a liberal. You know nothing about the man, and you could never match my knowledge of the JFK.

You like to pretend you're smart, but you're lying to yourself.

JFK would not support. Obama. So you are not a JFK liberal. You're a far left liberal and an Obama cheerleader, as I've conclusively shown.

 

[daveman]

Way to parrot your MessiahRushie.

I don't listen to Rush, you moron.

Ah, yes.....another....

....Fair & Balanced "conservative".....

....are you??

​

People who need to have their opinions handed to them aren't equipped to understand those of us who don't.

 

[Bfgrn]

You clearly didn't understand what I wrote, but I am not at all surprised. You are a word bound right winger.

I am a liberal just like John F. Kennedy was a liberal. You know nothing about the man, and you could never match my knowledge of the JFK.

You like to pretend you're smart, but you're lying to yourself.

JFK would not support. Obama. So you are not a JFK liberal. You're a far left liberal and an Obama cheerleader, as I've conclusively shown.

If I'm a far left liberal, then so was JFK. You have shown nothing other than your ignorance. And it's ironic that you delete JFK OWN words...why is that? President Kennedy would have supported President Obama, just like his brother Ted, who dedicated his life to fulfill his slain brother's vision of America.

"We have all seen these circus elephants complete with tusks, ivory in their head and thick skins, who move around the circus ring and grab the tail of the elephant ahead of them."
President John F. Kennedy


Here are some more words from our 35th President...try reading and learning this time...


Address of John F. Kennedy upon Accepting the Liberal Party Nomination for President
New York, New York, September 14, 1960 -John F. Kennedy Presidential Library & Museum

This is my political credo:

I believe in human dignity as the source of national purpose, in human liberty as the source of national action, and the human heart as the source of national compassion, and in the human mind as the source of our invention and our ideas. It is, I believe, this faith in our fellow citizens as individuals and as people that lies at the heart of the liberal faith, for liberalism is not so much a party creed or a set of fixed platform promises as it is an attitude of mind and heart, a faith in man's ability through the experiences of his reason and judgment to increase for himself and his fellow men the amount of Justice and freedom and brotherhood which all human life deserves. [Applause.]

I believe also in the United States of America, in the promise that it contains and has contained throughout our history of producing a society so abundant and creative and so free and responsible that it cannot only fulfill the aspirations of its citizens, but serve equally well as a beacon for all mankind. I do not believe in a super state. I see no magic to tax dollars which are sent to Washington and then returned. I abhor the waste and incompetence of large-scale Federal bureaucracies in this administration, as well as in others. I do not favor state compulsion when voluntary individual effort can do the job and do it well. But I believe in a government which acts, which exercises its full powers and its full responsibilities. Government is an art and a precious obligation; and when it has a job to do, I believe it should do it. And this requires not only great ends but that we propose concrete means of achieving them.

Our responsibility is not discharged by an announcement of virtuous ends. Our responsibility is to achieve these objectives with social invention, with political skill, and executive vigor. I believe for these reasons, that liberalism is our best and our only hope in the world today. [Applause.] For the liberal society is a free society, and it is at the same time and for that reason a strong society. Its strength is drawn from the will of free people committed to great ends and peacefully striving to meet them. Only liberalism, in short, can repair our national power, restore our national purpose, and liberate our national energies. And the only basic issue in the 1960 presidential campaign is whether our Government will fall in a conservative rut and die there, or whether we will move ahead in the liberal spirit of daring, of breaking new ground, of doing in our generation what Woodrow Wilson and Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman and Adlai Stevenson did in their time of influence and responsibility. [Applause.]

Our liberalism has its roots in our diverse origins. Most of us are descended from that segment of the American population which was once called an immigrant minority. Today, along with our children and grandchildren, we do not feel minor. We feel proud of our origins and we are not second to any group in our sense of national purpose. For many years New York represented the new frontier to all those who came from the ends of the earth to find new opportunity and new freedom, generations of men and women who fled from the despotism of the czars, the horrors of the Nazis, the tyranny of hunger, who came here to the new frontier in the State of New York. These men and women, a living cross section of American history, indeed, a cross section of the entire world's history of pain and hope, made of this city and only a new world of opportunity, but a new world of the spirit as well.

 

[California Girl]

I beginning to see everyone who votes democrat and everyone who votes republican as my enemy. If you fucking idiots would stop voting for people that you know to be corrupt, self serving bastards, this country would not be in the mess it is in.

 

[Harry Dresden]

If I'm a far left liberal, then so was JFK. You have shown nothing other than your ignorance. And it's ironic that you delete JFK OWN words...why is that? President Kennedy would have supported President Obama, just like his brother Ted, who dedicated his life to fulfill his slain brother's vision of America.

you dont know that.....the Dems from that era are quite different from today.....im sure JFK would have thought Pelosi and her ilk were his kind of Politician....

 

[daveman]

If I'm a far left liberal, then so was JFK.

Your insistence that you're like an American icon is sad and desperate. Your own words reveal the truth, and it's not what you claim.

You have shown nothing other than your ignorance. And it's ironic that you delete JFK OWN words...why is that?

Because his words have nothing to do with you.

President Kennedy would have supported President Obama, just like his brother Ted, who dedicated his life to fulfill his slain brother's vision of America.

Ted was a far-left liberal, yes. He sold out his family's legacy for far-left politics. He wasn't nearly the man his brother was.

"We have all seen these circus elephants complete with tusks, ivory in their head and thick skins, who move around the circus ring and grab the tail of the elephant ahead of them."
President John F. Kennedy


Here are some more words from our 35th President...try reading and learning this time...

I suggest you read and learn.

I see no magic to tax dollars which are sent to Washington and then returned. I abhor the waste and incompetence of large-scale Federal bureaucracies in this administration, as well as in others. I do not favor state compulsion when voluntary individual effort can do the job and do it well.

That is at odds with today's liberalism. It is at odds with President Obama. It is at odds with the policies you support.

Stop comparing yourself to President Kennedy. You sully his legacy.

 

[Bfgrn]

If I'm a far left liberal, then so was JFK.

Your insistence that you're like an American icon is sad and desperate. Your own words reveal the truth, and it's not what you claim.

You have shown nothing other than your ignorance. And it's ironic that you delete JFK OWN words...why is that?

Because his words have nothing to do with you.

Ted was a far-left liberal, yes. He sold out his family's legacy for far-left politics. He wasn't nearly the man his brother was.

"We have all seen these circus elephants complete with tusks, ivory in their head and thick skins, who move around the circus ring and grab the tail of the elephant ahead of them."
President John F. Kennedy


Here are some more words from our 35th President...try reading and learning this time...

I suggest you read and learn.

I see no magic to tax dollars which are sent to Washington and then returned. I abhor the waste and incompetence of large-scale Federal bureaucracies in this administration, as well as in others. I do not favor state compulsion when voluntary individual effort can do the job and do it well.

That is at odds with today's liberalism. It is at odds with President Obama. It is at odds with the policies you support.

Stop comparing yourself to President Kennedy. You sully his legacy.

PLEASE stop hacking up my posts...hit the 'Quote' button and then reply. Assemble sentences and paragraphs, but stop chopping up what I say and post.

What President Kennedy said is not at odds with what I believe or what Obama believes or what Democrats believe. It is only at odds with your right wing definitions of liberalism.

I do not favor large-scale Federal bureaucracies. Let's start by shutting down Fatherland Security. Turn off the lights and close the doors, it is a HUGE waste of tax dollars. And, I do not favor state compulsion when voluntary individual effort can do the job and do it well.

But we as citizens need to be able to identify when individual effort can NOT do the job and do it well and when government needs to step in and when they need to back off. That is what adults are able to do. I never hear a hint of that adult thinking from any of you far right wing ideologues, you are unable to make those distinctions.

Health care is the PERFECT example. But you right wing ideologues can't see the built in conflict of interest in for profit health insurance. Or understand that insurance cartels are not in the business of health or care. They are in the profit business. And the best way to increase profit is to collect years of premiums and then deny paying for expensive, life saving treatment. The consumer cannot just walk away and take their business elsewhere, because the consumer's stake in the transaction is their LIFE.



Here are words John F. Kennedy would wholly endorse and be very comfortable delivering:

"The question we ask today is not whether our government is too big or too small, but whether it works, whether it helps families find jobs at a decent wage, care they can afford, a retirement that is dignified.

Where the answer is yes, we intend to move forward. Where the answer is no, programs will end.

And those of us who manage the public's dollars will be held to account, to spend wisely, reform bad habits, and do our business in the light of day, because only then can we restore the vital trust between a people and their government.

Nor is the question before us whether the market is a force for good or ill. Its power to generate wealth and expand freedom is unmatched.

But this crisis has reminded us that without a watchful eye, the market can spin out of control. The nation cannot prosper long when it favors only the prosperous.

The success of our economy has always depended not just on the size of our gross domestic product, but on the reach of our prosperity; on the ability to extend opportunity to every willing heart -- not out of charity, but because it is the surest route to our common good."

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