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It was their money to begin with. They earned it.
When are you on the left going to realize that taxes burden the American people with labor they have to pay the government before they can take care of themselves? The money is theirs.
At what point have they paid their fair share?
When they have none left. Of course, that begs the question, who are they going to take it from next?
How so..You must explain yourself. GO!US Worker bees have been victimized over the last forty years by the richest 1% of their countrymen.Hey, no matter how many ways you try to inject the poor abused worker bee card, your message still remains the same. You despise anyone who you deem to have somehow cheated you throughout your miserably unproductive life.
Back under your rock.
My message is, it is time for economic payback.
Or do you believe that level of inequality is sustainable over the next four decades?
I think you are small minded jealous underachieving person who fucked up somewhere and are looking for someone to blame for your own self created misfortunes. You feel the rich have fucked you over and you come on here to start threads looking for people who feel equally aggrieved by those who have succeeded or achieved. You hate them. You feel they have taken what you believe to be yours. You feel this due to some fantasy you have conjured up to make yourself feel better about your own inadequacies.
Can you prove the only money US taxpayers have lost so far is from Fannie, Freddie, automakers and failed mortgages?"We simply cannot make these bad investments whole unless we are willing to hand the next 10-20 years of U.S. private savings over to the bondholders who financed reckless lending."
7.5 to 17.5 years to go?
Bailouts Of Bondholders Will Sock Taxpayers With $10-$14 Trillion Loss
He was making a guess.
If you have any follow up with actual data, please provide it.
So far, the only money we're losing from the bailouts is from Fannie, Freddie, the automakers and the failed mortgage program.
Why do you think bribing Republicans AND Democrats for tax favors qualifies as work?"The following fact was sent to numerous conservative pundits, politicians, and profit-seekers:
"Based on Tax Foundation figures, the richest 1% has TRIPLED its share of America's income over the past 30 years. Much of the gain came from tax cuts and minimally taxed financial instruments.
"If their income had increased only at the pace of American productivity (80%), they would be taking about a TRILLION DOLLARS LESS out of our economy.
"And a question was posed:
"In what way do the richest 1% deserve these extraordinary gains?
"This question was not posed in sarcasm.
"A factual answer is genuinely sought.
"It seems unlikely that 1% of the population worked three times harder than the rest of us, or contributed three times as much to American productivity.
"Money earned from tax cuts and minimally taxed financial instruments is not productive income."
Any takers, Cons?
The Question Conservatives Can't Answer | Common Dreams
I can answer that! The top 1% earned their wealth. They create jobs, they work much harder than the other 99% (Bill Gates routinely did 18 hour days my friend), and what they earned is not the US government's to take. Sorry.
They tripled their wealth because they earned it. Had you spent half as much time working as you do advocating taking from others (ie Communism), you would have tripled your wealth as well.
Since they would not be earning any amount of money in the absence of government infrastructure, they are obligated to pay their fair share for maintaining government. Sorry.
How so..You must explain yourself. GO!US Worker bees have been victimized over the last forty years by the richest 1% of their countrymen.
My message is, it is time for economic payback.
Or do you believe that level of inequality is sustainable over the next four decades?
I think you are small minded jealous underachieving person who fucked up somewhere and are looking for someone to blame for your own self created misfortunes. You feel the rich have fucked you over and you come on here to start threads looking for people who feel equally aggrieved by those who have succeeded or achieved. You hate them. You feel they have taken what you believe to be yours. You feel this due to some fantasy you have conjured up to make yourself feel better about your own inadequacies.
Between 1980 and 2008 the richest 1% of Americans nearly tripled their share of total US income.
The Tax Foundation - Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data
"If their income had increased only at the pace of American productivity (80%), they would be taking about a TRILLION DOLLARS LESS out of our economy."
The Question Conservatives Can't Answer | Common Dreams
Are you capable of understanding how the richest 1% acquired their 20% share of every dollar that all US workers earned in 2008?
They did it by bribing elected Republicans AND Democrats for tax policy that shifted the burden of taxation off unearned income and onto wages and salaries.
If that extra million came from bribing politicians to shift your share of taxes onto my earnings, it has a huge effect on my income.Total national income is a finite number.When you say "share of income" you are implying that income is a zero sum game.
It's not.
It's obtained by totaling the amount of income all US workers earn in one year.
In 1980 the richest 1% of workers earned 8% of that total income.
In 2008 they earned 20%
They have increased their share of total national income by bribing politicians to write favorable tax policy, and not because they have worked two-and-a-half times harder than the other 99% of workers.
And they always want more.
So what if some people want to make more.
If i make a million dollars more this year than last it has absolutely no effect on your income.
None, zero, zip, nada.
If that extra million came from bribing politicians to shift your share of taxes onto my earnings, it has a huge effect on my income.Total national income is a finite number.
It's obtained by totaling the amount of income all US workers earn in one year.
In 1980 the richest 1% of workers earned 8% of that total income.
In 2008 they earned 20%
They have increased their share of total national income by bribing politicians to write favorable tax policy, and not because they have worked two-and-a-half times harder than the other 99% of workers.
And they always want more.
So what if some people want to make more.
If i make a million dollars more this year than last it has absolutely no effect on your income.
None, zero, zip, nada.
Do you think unearned income should be taxed at rates greater than earned income?
It was their money to begin with. They earned it.
When are you on the left going to realize that taxes burden the American people with labor they have to pay the government before they can take care of themselves? The money is theirs.
At what point have they paid their fair share?
When they have none left. Of course, that begs the question, who are they going to take it from next?
The rich are paying the lowest tax rate ever, and the repubs want to give them more!
The poor are so bothersome!
So did W's tax cut for the rich create jobs? No, it began the greatest economic downturn since the great . More jobs have been created in the last 2 years than in the entire 8 years that W was recovering from Alcohlism in the White House.
Fifty years ago, for every tax dollar human citizens paid to the IRS US corporations paid $1.50.
Today corporations give $.50 for every dollar real citizens contribute.
During that same time period the richest 1% of individuals paid a tax rate of 90% on every dollar they earned over $100,000.
Reinstate those rates today, and the debt becomes manageable in a decade.
Fifty years ago, for every tax dollar human citizens paid to the IRS US corporations paid $1.50.
Today corporations give $.50 for every dollar real citizens contribute.
During that same time period the richest 1% of individuals paid a tax rate of 90% on every dollar they earned over $100,000.
Reinstate those rates today, and the debt becomes manageable in a decade.
Tell me why would anyone bother to succeed anymore?
It was their money to begin with. They earned it.
When are you on the left going to realize that taxes burden the American people with labor they have to pay the government before they can take care of themselves? The money is theirs.
At what point have they paid their fair share?
When they have none left. Of course, that begs the question, who are they going to take it from next?
The rich are paying the lowest tax rate ever, and the repubs want to give them more!
The poor are so bothersome!
So did W's tax cut for the rich create jobs? No, it began the greatest economic downturn since the great depression. More jobs have been created in the last 2 years than in the entire 8 years that W was recovering from Alcohlism in the White House.
In addition to technology and globalization and corporate tax breaks, there's been a concerted effort by both major political parties to shift the burden of taxation off individual FIRE sector incomes and onto wages and salaries.Hmmm. It seems that you guys don't want to discuss anything that doesn't demonize or blame "the other side" completely. The points below don't point the finger at the rich but on the other side, they do legitimately criticize certain policies which are currently backed by the GOP. But nah. Keep on talking about why none of those points are relevant and it's the "the danm Socialist Dems fault" or that people who don't take the risk to start their own business, are "victimized". Okay, if that's your cup of tea. But neither ConservaRepubs nor LibDems seem to be posting much that is based on more than emotion or the talking points fed by the pundits. Just an observation...
I'm not a "Con" (although I've been called it a few times) but I'll offer a few ideas.
1. Technology. It has had the same effect on wealth creation as on many other things: acceleration. While technology has contributed to the decline of income from all those people who used to work at say, printing shops or travel agencies, it has increased the amount and rate at which the rich can leverage their specialized knowledge (i.e. how to get rich or richer) into even more wealth.
2. Globalization. We can monitor the NIKKEI in real time, send and receive contracts, orders etc... across the globe in seconds. So people who have the ability to get rich, have certain skills. Now they can leverage them even more efficiently and in more places.
3. In one respect you're right - but not when it comes to personal tax breaks. Where you're right is Corps. Corporations have been given BILLIONS is special tax breaks, subsidies etc... since the 80's, that they never used to get. It used to be, these tax breaks and subsidies were reserved only for businesses that were helping the public good (like phone companies putting phone lines in rural areas that wouldn't be profitible to them, because of the low number of customers) but now? Big Oil? Other Multi-National companies? They are not providing some new technology or service that Americans wouldn't otherwise have. They aren't building bridges or infrastructure. They haven't been for decades. But they still get our money. This defnitely helps the rich get richer and faster.
So I'm not demonizing the rich. I don't fault them their success and I feel blessed to have mine. I'm just making an Independent's observations.
"Thanks largely to the $13 trillion Wall Street bailout while keeping the debt overhead in place for Americas 'bottom 98 per cent' this happy 2 per cent of the population now receives an estimated three quarters (~75 per cent) of the returns to wealth (interest, dividends, rent and capital gains). This is nearly double what it received a generation ago. The rest of the population is being squeezed, and foreclosures are rising."
Michael Hudson: Obama's Greatest Betrayal
"And while some big earners have developed innovative ideas and leading-edge businesses, it seems fair to say that taxpayer-funded research at the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (the Internet), the National Institute of Health (pharmaceuticals), and the National Science Foundation (the Digital Library Initiative) has laid a half-century foundation for their idea-building."The following fact was sent to numerous conservative pundits, politicians, and profit-seekers:
"Based on Tax Foundation figures, the richest 1% has TRIPLED its share of America's income over the past 30 years. Much of the gain came from tax cuts and minimally taxed financial instruments.
"If their income had increased only at the pace of American productivity (80%), they would be taking about a TRILLION DOLLARS LESS out of our economy.
"And a question was posed:
"In what way do the richest 1% deserve these extraordinary gains?
"This question was not posed in sarcasm.
"A factual answer is genuinely sought.
"It seems unlikely that 1% of the population worked three times harder than the rest of us, or contributed three times as much to American productivity.
"Money earned from tax cuts and minimally taxed financial instruments is not productive income."
Any takers, Cons?
The Question Conservatives Can't Answer | Common Dreams
Obviously they rely on this tiny base for most of their contributions. Their message doesn't appeal to most Americans so they protect the few that contribute to their re-elections.
So I asked anyone out there to explain, defend, or justify the fact that over 20% of our country's income (it was 7% in 1980) now goes to the richest 1% of Americans."
Plato's eternal political triangle is playing out before our eyes.
Democracies polarize into rich and poor along creditor/debtor lines producing an oligarchy.
Over generations the oligarchy becomes an aristocracy with rival families competing for control.
Eventually one of these families brings "the people" into the fight, and the eternal struggle shifts back to its "Democracy" phase.
I don't see any way of dealing with this problem by "choosing" between Republican OR Democrat in the voting booth.
The Question Conservatives Can't Answer | Common Dreams
Exactly how someone accumulates their earnings and wealth is immaterial only if you don't mind being robbed at gunpoint for your share of national income. The richest 1% are robbing you of what you've earned by making campaign donations to politicians instead of using a gun.
You're still being robbed, but apparently you're to friggin' brainwashed to notice.
Can you prove the only money US taxpayers have lost so far is from Fannie, Freddie, automakers and failed mortgages?"We simply cannot make these bad investments whole unless we are willing to hand the next 10-20 years of U.S. private savings over to the bondholders who financed reckless lending."
7.5 to 17.5 years to go?
Bailouts Of Bondholders Will Sock Taxpayers With $10-$14 Trillion Loss
He was making a guess.
If you have any follow up with actual data, please provide it.
So far, the only money we're losing from the bailouts is from Fannie, Freddie, the automakers and the failed mortgage program.
"The holders [of this debt] are not just banks, but insurance companies, pension funds, foreign lenders, and others. Even so, there is no way to prevent huge, ongoing losses, because the cash flows off of these assets are not sufficient to service the debt.
"The only question is whether the bondholders appropriately bear those losses, or whether the public bears them inappropriately.
Bailouts Of Bondholders Will Sock Taxpayers With $10-$14 Trillion Loss
If that extra million came from bribing politicians to shift your share of taxes onto my earnings, it has a huge effect on my income.Total national income is a finite number.
It's obtained by totaling the amount of income all US workers earn in one year.
In 1980 the richest 1% of workers earned 8% of that total income.
In 2008 they earned 20%
They have increased their share of total national income by bribing politicians to write favorable tax policy, and not because they have worked two-and-a-half times harder than the other 99% of workers.
And they always want more.
So what if some people want to make more.
If i make a million dollars more this year than last it has absolutely no effect on your income.
None, zero, zip, nada.
Do you think unearned income should be taxed at rates greater than earned income?
How so..You must explain yourself. GO!US Worker bees have been victimized over the last forty years by the richest 1% of their countrymen.
My message is, it is time for economic payback.
Or do you believe that level of inequality is sustainable over the next four decades?
I think you are small minded jealous underachieving person who fucked up somewhere and are looking for someone to blame for your own self created misfortunes. You feel the rich have fucked you over and you come on here to start threads looking for people who feel equally aggrieved by those who have succeeded or achieved. You hate them. You feel they have taken what you believe to be yours. You feel this due to some fantasy you have conjured up to make yourself feel better about your own inadequacies.
Between 1980 and 2008 the richest 1% of Americans nearly tripled their share of total US income.
The Tax Foundation - Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data
"If their income had increased only at the pace of American productivity (80%), they would be taking about a TRILLION DOLLARS LESS out of our economy."
The Question Conservatives Can't Answer | Common Dreams
Are you capable of understanding how the richest 1% acquired their 20% share of every dollar that all US workers earned in 2008?
They did it by bribing elected Republicans AND Democrats for tax policy that shifted the burden of taxation off unearned income and onto wages and salaries.
