The poor

[007]

I'm poor by my families standards, but by the governments standards, I'm just lower to middle class. I'm not hungry, my bills are paid, I have toys, I'm healthy and happy, so that's rich in my book.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

I choose to be poor because it isn't worth it to me to work hard for someone else for materialistic ideals. I like being poor (I think, I've never been wealthy) and I like the freedom it gives me not to be attached to material possessions. I grew up very poor.

I know lots of poor people who live below the federally designated poverty level because they also value freedom over economic stability or material possessions.

I also know lots of poor people who don't know how to get out of living in poverty. It just isn't as simple as finishing their GED, going to college, and getting a better job for them. They aren't on welfare. Its just not part of their personality to learn in school and some people are just like that. It doesn't mean their stupid or lazy.

If you're truly "poor" you're not at all free. Not even close.

I am not rich by any stretch, but I am completely independent and live by very spartan, but safe and comfortable means.

My income for the last 5 years has been well under poverty level and I like it that way. Because it means I don't have to work anymore to maintain my spartan lifestyle. I own a acre of cheap land, have a modest and inexpensive but energy efficient house, have a pickup, a boat, a motorcycle.... I pay my meager property taxes and vehicle registrations every year, keep up all my insurance and utilities, and donate alot of time and money to various local causes.

I go out every weekend and help feed the homeless. While these church groups are out there preaching to these guys, I am instead telling them my story. I am finding out what skills they have and trying to help them get jobs. I was there once. I know how to dig out of it and self-pity isn't the way.

I donate to the local food bank. I operate a Barn Cat program. Am I rich?

Not at all, I am merely successful in what I wanted to be. Technically I am "poor" but that technicality is inaccurate in my case.

Some people want to be poor, but I bet ones who say that actually aren't truly poor.

 

[AllieBaba]

Poor is having to choose between having your electricity shut off, or feeding your kids.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Poor is having to choose between having your electricity shut off, or feeding your kids.

That's not "poor."

Poor is having no home, no shelter, no job, much less a electric bill to worry about.

Many times I have seen the situation you're describing. Then I look, and the 80s vehicle they drive has $4000 wheels and a $2000 boomer stereo. Looking further I see they smoke weed and drink. Alot. They're far from poor, they just have their priorities askew.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

If you're truly "poor" you're not at all free. Not even close.

Some people want to be poor, but I bet ones who say that actually aren't truly poor.

Sorry, MM, but you're wrong, well, mostly. In less than two weeks my girlfriend and I are packing up our $1400 '77 Dodge Rockwood RV (The Dodge Mahal) and heading out west to climb all over the California and Nevada deserts for about 6 months. We can work temp or PT jobs to support ourselves or supplement our savings if need be. So, yeah, technically we're not totally free but free-er than most. And we're young. We're going to enjoy or youth instead of working it away.

The definition of poor I was using was not much money (less than $3000) and no real assets (a lap top, an old rv, some climbing gear, and that's it). I mean, we aren't worried about our next meal or having a roof over our heads, by any means. We're not THAT poor.

 

[RodISHI]

I choose to be poor because it isn't worth it to me to work hard for someone else for materialistic ideals. I like being poor (I think, I've never been wealthy) and I like the freedom it gives me not to be attached to material possessions. I grew up very poor.

I know lots of poor people who live below the federally designated poverty level because they also value freedom over economic stability or material possessions.

I also know lots of poor people who don't know how to get out of living in poverty. It just isn't as simple as finishing their GED, going to college, and getting a better job for them. They aren't on welfare. Its just not part of their personality to learn in school and some people are just like that. It doesn't mean their stupid or lazy.

Poor cannot always be designated in a monetary value. My brother has always made triple to what I have made over the years. He has never owned his own home and is usually heavy in debt and has borrowed money from me countless times through the years. I bought my first house when I was sixteen with a small loan from one of my ex-husband's grandparents. My house payments back then were $78.00 a month.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

If you're truly "poor" you're not at all free. Not even close.

Some people want to be poor, but I bet ones who say that actually aren't truly poor.

Sorry, MM, but you're wrong, well, mostly. In less than two weeks my girlfriend and I are packing up our $1400 '77 Dodge Rockwood RV (The Dodge Mahal) and heading out west to climb all over the California and Nevada deserts for about 6 months. We can work temp or PT jobs to support ourselves or supplement our savings if need be. So, yeah, technically we're not totally free but free-er than most. And we're young. We're going to enjoy or youth instead of working it away.

The definition of poor I was using was not much money (less than $3000) and no real assets (a lap top, an old rv, some climbing gear, and that's it). I mean, we aren't worried about our next meal or having a roof over our heads, by any means. We're not THAT poor.

There's "poor" and then there's POOR. I've been both.

 

[Ralph]

There are some things that are just beyond the control of any human being.......unless you are George "W" Bush, then of course you have the ability to dictate poverty upon people by controlling the weather and make people "choose" to stay behind.

Jesus said also you will know them by their fruits. Your fruit seems to be a bit rotten here Ralph.

Awe!! The old ad hominem Saul Alinsky deflection? Don't address the substance of the query but attempt to belittle the messenger through a SUBJECTIVE diatribe of bigoted OPINION. I do believe Jesus stated that His very mission on earth was to enlighten people with the TRUTH, His divine mission was not to feed the flesh of the poor, as He openly chastised those that followed Him after the miracle of fish and loaves for wanting to feed the flesh instead of accepting the truth of His message -- John 6:26-27. Jesus clearly informed us that His duty was to tell the TRUTH of the Gospel that was how He served the poor -- Luke 7:22. And once again enlightening us to His mission as bringing us the TRUTH -- John 18:37

Now just who is the one exampling BAD FRUIT by attempting to accuse someone of lying? Are you suggesting that no one Blamed the Bush Administration for the poverty brought upon people as a result of WEATHER? If you are......you are not being intellectually honest in the least, as I did not know that presenting TRUTH was considered a product of ROTTEN FRUIT. But thanks for the LESSON in Communist Politics.....Saul Alinsky 101.

 

[RodISHI]

Poor is having to choose between having your electricity shut off, or feeding your kids.

I agree. That is a standard of poor in the US. Thankfully most of the northern states have some help for when situations get that bad for people with children here.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

There's "poor" and then there's POOR. I've been both.

Yeah, okay. I guess I'm just "poor". But I have been POOR. There was still some freedom in that, but I got by with a little help from my friends. That's what community's all about right?

 

[Midnight Marauder]

There's "poor" and then there's POOR. I've been both.

Yeah, okay. I guess I'm just "poor". But I have been POOR. There was still some freedom in that, but I got by with a little help from my friends. That's what community's all about right?

I believe in helping. There are those who are beyond help, and those who don't want to be helped. And there's those who for whatever reason cannot help themselves.

But the vast majority are poor because the government is keeping them that way via welfare.

 

[Mr. H.]

Dad died at 54, mom was 45 with 7 kids. Took many years to get out of the debts dad left behind. Yeah poor.

After my divorce in '95 it took me 10 years to scrape myself off the pavement and get out of debt.
In the meantime I remarried and had a new kid. Wife said "who needs money- we have each other and this beautiful baby". Coolest thing anyone ever said to me.

 

[Paulie]

And like I said, this doesn't apply to EVERYONE. I find it odd though that you would use day care centers possibly abusing children as any kind of excuse. If you would shop around for a car, you would CERTAINLY shop around for a child care facility.

The bare minimum I would ask out of anyone is to make less excuses for NOT being out of poverty, and make more efforts to GET out of poverty. If you never make it even though you put out the effort, at least you made the attempt.

To take a Wayne Gretzky quote and change it around a bit...100% of the chances you don't take, don't end up in success.

You really are simple there Paulie. You do realize that the day cares that these parents whether they be working poor or on welfare trying to get an education can afford hire the cheapest scum they can find to work at them do you not? In trying to find a suitable place for their children while they attempt to get out of poverty they are caught in circumstances beyond their own control.

I hope you do not get to determine policy.

This is typical elitist crap, "If you never make it even though you put out the effort, at least you made an attempt". I can see it now, "So lets not create a situation where they can truly make it. Just dangle an apple out there in from of them just far enough that they will fall as they get close to get it and we can tell them, well at least you tried. Good effort."

So you're twisting my words around and giving the appearance that I'm speaking in absolutes, even though I'm clearly not. I accounted for the fact that some people simply can't get out of poverty. But I have zero sympathy for you if you don't even try.

And what the fuck are you talking about regarding child care facilities? You make it sound like every single one is a piece of shit. In my area, which is middle class, there are SEVERAL child care facilities, some of which hire certified teachers with bachelor's degrees. We've looked at every single one that's available to us within reasonable driving distance, and only one wasn't to our liking. It just seemed less than sanitary. And they ALL take the state's child care assistance.

I don't know where you're getting this "cheapest scum you can find" bullshit. We pay $25 a day for what we feel is the best day care facility in our area. They offer 3 free days once a week for 3 weeks called "Mommy and me" where moms can bring their kids for an hour and get familiar with the facility and what it offers, before they enroll. They have classroom settings where kids as young as 1 year old are actually put into a teach/learn environment. They learn fundamentals, they have a gym class where they do karate, baseball, and other sports. The staff is all certified teachers. My 2 year old son loves it and hates leaving each day.

You're making every excuse you can muster up. I get it Rod, some people are just POOR. I haven't ONCE argued against that fact.

"elitist crap"

Whatever.

 

[Ravi]

If you people puffing out your chests about not taking government handouts never got a student loan, never went to public school, don't have parents on social security and/or medicare and didn't receive earned income tax credits then you can puff out your chests.

Otherwise, shut the fuck up.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

If you people puffing out your chests about not taking government handouts never got a student loan, never went to public school, don't have parents on social security and/or medicare and didn't receive earned income tax credits then you can puff out your chests.

Otherwise, shut the fuck up.

I didn't see anyone making any such claims. Could you quote at least, well, one?

And for most of us over 30, there was very little choice other than public schools which our parents were paying for via taxation.

 

[Ralph]

The TRUTH of the matter....is the documented FACT that close to 13 Trillion dollars has been poured into the supposed WAR ON POVERTY over the last few decades......with POVERTY winning the battle, according to the constant battle cry of the liberal army....."MORE, MORE, more soup please." That money was not an investment....it was WASTED with no possibility of return, with the poverty level remaining practically static since then inception of the GREAT SOCIETY PROGRAMS.

The liberals use the illusion of this on going work as a method of political power......what better way to have power than to CONTROL THE PURSE STRINGS? The blue blood liberals have bought and paid for (not with their own money of course but, WE THE PEOPLES money) a constant base for their entitlement programs by creating GENERATION after GENERATION of certain demographic portions of our society by holding them right at or above the poverty level. They do not want these "political slaves" to go off the plantation.....they are there to take advantage of. Indeed slavery is still alive in this nation...the plantations have simply been moved and directed by proxy of the wealthy New England royal families. Now they are even beginning to import poverty to keep their power base.

Importing Poverty: Immigration and Poverty in the United States: A Book of Charts

 

[Paulie]

If you people puffing out your chests about not taking government handouts never got a student loan, never went to public school, don't have parents on social security and/or medicare and didn't receive earned income tax credits then you can puff out your chests.

Otherwise, shut the fuck up.

What is it with you and student loans? Not every student loan is government subsidized.

And what does one's parents' situation have to do with one's ideological position?

If my mother collects the social security that she happens to have paid into her entire life when she retires, I'm somehow not allowed to be a conservative?

 

[007]

If you're truly "poor" you're not at all free. Not even close.

Some people want to be poor, but I bet ones who say that actually aren't truly poor.

Sorry, MM, but you're wrong, well, mostly. In less than two weeks my girlfriend and I are packing up our $1400 '77 Dodge Rockwood RV (The Dodge Mahal) and heading out west to climb all over the California and Nevada deserts for about 6 months. We can work temp or PT jobs to support ourselves or supplement our savings if need be. So, yeah, technically we're not totally free but free-er than most. And we're young. We're going to enjoy or youth instead of working it away.

The definition of poor I was using was not much money (less than $3000) and no real assets (a lap top, an old rv, some climbing gear, and that's it). I mean, we aren't worried about our next meal or having a roof over our heads, by any means. We're not THAT poor.

Sounds like a blast. When I was 18, a friend and I took off from Wisconsin on a hiatus to kullyfornia. We spent about three months migrating from San Fran down to San Diego basically living on the beach, working little jobs, until I wound up in jail. Got a little too friendly with the HA's and got into some trouble. Headed straight back to Wisconsin after I got that cleared up. But given the chance, I'd do it all over again. I have no friends or relatives that can say they've ever done anything like that, and that's just the tip of the ice burg. Live life to it's fullest pard, and don't gauge how rich your life is by money. How HAPPY you are is the real indicator.

 

[RodISHI]

So you're twisting my words around and giving the appearance that I'm speaking in absolutes, even though I'm clearly not. I accounted for the fact that some people simply can't get out of poverty. But I have zero sympathy for you if you don't even try.

And what the fuck are you talking about regarding child care facilities? You make it sound like every single one is a piece of shit. In my area, which is middle class, there are SEVERAL child care facilities, some of which hire certified teachers with bachelor's degrees. We've looked at every single one that's available to us within reasonable driving distance, and only one wasn't to our liking. It just seemed less than sanitary. And they ALL take the state's child care assistance.

I don't know where you're getting this "cheapest scum you can find" bullshit. We pay $25 a day for what we feel is the best day care facility in our area. They offer 3 free days once a week for 3 weeks called "Mommy and me" where moms can bring their kids for an hour and get familiar with the facility and what it offers, before they enroll. They have classroom settings where kids as young as 1 year old are actually put into a teach/learn environment. They learn fundamentals, they have a gym class where they do karate, baseball, and other sports. The staff is all certified teachers. My 2 year old son loves it and hates leaving each day.

You're making every excuse you can muster up. I get it Rod, some people are just POOR. I haven't ONCE argued against that fact.

"elitist crap"

Whatever.

Look at your own words. You live in a "middle class" area. Many of the poor live in poor areas. I doubt you have been to some of these daycare facilities where the poor need to take their children in order to be able to get to that job that pays them minimum wage or very little above minimum wage. I think it is great you have such facilities to take your child. It would be nice if the poorer of this society could have that same secure feeling for their children while they work to make a living too.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Sounds like a blast. When I was 18, a friend and I took off from Wisconsin on a hiatus to kullyfornia. We spent about three months migrating from San Fran down to San Diego basically living on the beach, working little jobs, until I wound up in jail. Got a little too friendly with the HA's and got into some trouble. Headed straight back to Wisconsin after I got that cleared up. But given the chance, I'd do it all over again. I have no friends or relatives that can say they've ever done anything like that, and that's just the tip of the ice burg. Live life to it's fullest pard, and don't gauge how rich your life is by money. How HAPPY you are is the real indicator.

Amen!

So it was you who corrupted the HA's! They used to be such nice boys, too.

Hell yeah! I walked from the Mexico/California border to north of Lake Tahoe a few years back on the Pacific Crest Trail. It took 2 and a half months and cost $800! Cheaper than rent for a month. I didn't have a tent and nothing but the clothes and 40 lbs. pack on my back and it was some of the best days of my life. I'd wake up in the morning with nothing to do but walk north and enjoy the scenery. A couple of years before that I spent 2 months living as a climbing bum in Yosemite National Park. I climbed Half Dome's northwest face (the sheer face) but didn't get up El Cap. I would go to the Yosemite Lodge cafeteria and wait for old ladies (who'd pile food from the breakfast buffet high on their plates but only eat three bites) to get up and leave and then I'd go sit down before the busser got there to clean the table and have myself a free smorgasbord. Some of the best days of my life. One summer I spent in Leadville I worked construction and lived in a tent down by the river (literally) and would fish my dinner after work. I'm lookin' forward to this winter in the Sonoran, Mojave and Colorado deserts. 70 degree days and nothin' to do but whatever I want.

Did you ever think about riding your bike up the Trans-Alaskan Highway? I met this guy who got laid off, got a severance package of $20k, bought himself a Mitsubishi dual-sport (yeah, yeah, not as cool as your Harley) and rode from Santa Cruz all the way to Nome, Alaska and back. I thought that was pretty damn cool. All he had were a couple of plastic panniers, a fly rod, and his leather get-up and helmet. I met him at a campground near Tioga Pass in Cali and he spent all morning catching trout then came and offered to share them with me. We ate pan friend, fresh caught trout, drank Beam, and swapped tales all afternoon by an alpine lake surrounded by rugged peaks. How much money is that worth?