The Policy Positions that Have My Vote Going to Obama

[Texanmike]

I figured I should sum this up for you nicely:

The whole point I was making was that we have a problem with economic growth in the US. Our biggest problem is that our labor is simply too expensive. Why in the world would you choose to start a business here when you have options in other countries? The way to increase jobs in a struggling economy is not to add taxes which will dissuade companies from bringing jobs here. Its funny, you are talking about how bad it is that companies export jobs and you want to tax companies that do business here. If you really want to revitalize the economy then decrease the tax rate and lower the cost of doing business here in the US.

Mike

 

[Oddball]

And the Obama Administration did so well with spending OUR Tax dollars and off-shoring jobs at General Motors to China. That sort of makes reason #2 of the OP sound sort of silly, or misinformed doesn't it?

The Obama Admin off-shored jobs in the private sector?

Hmmm. And you're saying other people sound silly and misinformed?

So you have nothing on policy position? Yeah, there's a big surprise.

There is no way in hell I'm voting for Obama

So you have nothing on policy position? Yeah, there's a big surprise.

Your words.

Backpedal, retrench, waffle, flip-flop, dither, double-talk all you want.

You have no standards.

You are up for bids.

 

[buckeye45_73]

And the Obama Administration did so well with spending OUR Tax dollars and off-shoring jobs at General Motors to China. That sort of makes reason #2 of the OP sound sort of silly, or misinformed doesn't it?

The Obama Admin off-shored jobs in the private sector?

Hmmm. And you're saying other people sound silly and misinformed?

So you have nothing on policy position? Yeah, there's a big surprise.

There is no way in hell I'm voting for Obama

So you have nothing on policy position? Yeah, there's a big surprise.

Ok so Obama and the democrats, what did they do for outsourcing? Anyone got a link?

 

[IndependntLogic]

No. I understand that quite well. I don't understand what you are promoting though. If you want to require people to make things here and sell them here then you need to make it illegal to import things into this country. Of course, that will result in nobody buying our exports and us not having things like lithium, which is not abundant in the US.

Mike

<<Sigh>>

1. I do not want to require any person or company to make things here.
2. I do not want to make it illegal to import things.
You're from the South, are you? Okay let me dumb this down. Since you brought up a drug, I'll use one for an example.

See Abbott laboratories.
They make drugs!
They make Lexapro in the USA! (by choice)
Lexapro is sold ONLY in the USA.
Lexapro is made and sold 100% in the USA! (by choice of Abbott)
Lexapro makes BILLIONS in profits!
In the USA ONLY!
Abbott opened a small office in Ireland with 17 people.
Abbott now offhsores ALL the profits from Lexapro to Ireland! (If you don't understand "offshores", find one of those Liberal Elitists and ask them to explain it to you).
Hundreds of Billions of dollars are offshored through loopholes that offer techniques like the "Double Irish" and "Dutch Sandwich".
Most Democrats, Independents and some Republicans think that since these profits are earned 100% in the USA, we should realize those revenues.
This would be very nice for that deficit thing.

If you're still confused or think that I want to oulaw breathing in Montana or whatever, let me know and I'll try to come up with even smaller words.

When you belittle Southerners and LIE about Abott Labs in Ireland --- I get interested enough in this thread to WARN your pompous ass to do it's homework.. From their Ireland website..

Abbott in Ireland
Abbott is one of Ireland's leading health care companies, employing almost 4,000 people. Abbott Ireland manufactures and markets a broad range of health care products including medical devices, and pharmaceutical, diagnostic and nutritional products. Abbott has eight manufacturing facilities located in Clonmel, Cootehill, Cork, Donegal, Longford and Sligo and a third party manufacturing management operation in Sligo. It has commercial operations in Dublin and shared services in Dublin and Westport. Abbott has been operating in Ireland since 1946.

Five business units are represented across eight manufacturing sites with commercial operations in Dublin and Westport. The manufacturing facilities are:

Abbott Diabetes Care in Donegal
Abbott Nutrition in Cootehill and Sligo
Abbott Pharmaceuticals in Sligo and Cork
Abbott Diagnostics in Longford and Sligo
Abbott Vascular Devices in Clonmel
Abbott&#8217;s investment in Ireland has mirrored the global success of Abbott worldwide and we remain strongly focused on ensuring that our Irish operations continue to play an important role within the worldwide corporation.

17 PEOPLE???? Us Southerners may be slow talking, but don't think that's because we're slow thinking..

No. I understand that quite well. I don't understand what you are promoting though. If you want to require people to make things here and sell them here then you need to make it illegal to import things into this country. Of course, that will result in nobody buying our exports and us not having things like lithium, which is not abundant in the US.

Mike

<<Sigh>>

1. I do not want to require any person or company to make things here.
2. I do not want to make it illegal to import things.
You're from the South, are you? Okay let me dumb this down. Since you brought up a drug, I'll use one for an example.

See Abbott laboratories.
They make drugs!
They make Lexapro in the USA! (by choice)
Lexapro is sold ONLY in the USA.
Lexapro is made and sold 100% in the USA! (by choice of Abbott)
Lexapro makes BILLIONS in profits!
In the USA ONLY!
Abbott opened a small office in Ireland with 17 people.
Abbott now offhsores ALL the profits from Lexapro to Ireland! (If you don't understand "offshores", find one of those Liberal Elitists and ask them to explain it to you).
Hundreds of Billions of dollars are offshored through loopholes that offer techniques like the "Double Irish" and "Dutch Sandwich".
Most Democrats, Independents and some Republicans think that since these profits are earned 100% in the USA, we should realize those revenues.
This would be very nice for that deficit thing.

If you're still confused or think that I want to oulaw breathing in Montana or whatever, let me know and I'll try to come up with even smaller words.

So that we don't have any confusion, I'm from the south. I also grew up all over the world. I speak 4 languages and have brokered multi-national transactions in both the commodity and finished products market.

Now to clear up your ignorance. Notice I didn't capitalize lithium? For someone who is going to attempt to insult my education based on the region of the country I live in I would expect an understanding of the relevance of capitalism and the concept of proper nouns. I wasn't talking about the drug "Lithium", I was talking about the element, lithium. You know, the one that has a big Li under a small 3 on the periodic table? Its in most of the re-chargeable battery powered devices you use (cell phones, laptops etc). The point of my post (which was completely lost on you) was that when you add taxes you are discouraging investment in this country period. You get additional revenue from the income tax provided by the jobs that Abbot provides in the US.

But lets get back to your drug issue. What exactly would you like to do? Would you like to tax the manufacture of Lexapro? For the record, Lexapro is taxed. It is taxed at the point of sale. Are you saying that you are not benefiting from the manufacture of Lexapro? Are Americans not benefiting from the medicinal effects of Lexapro? If you decided to tax it then Abbot would have two options. They would either have to raise their prices (not a benefit to Americans) or they would need to cut into profits. You are not going to get a net gain by taxing Lexapro.

If you want the extra tax revenue, don't hide behind taking it from the "evil corporation" just take tax it from the people. They are going to pay it either way.

Understand?

Mike

For Flatcaltenn: That's fine but they attribute the income from US sales to the exec office in Ireland. That office was about 17 people, last time I read but it could be different. In any case, all production, sale and profits from lexapro, are realized int he USA - which was my point.

To Mike:
Well, I wouldn't have gotten so snarky if you hadn't come in with your completely stupid crap about how I somehow wanted to tax money made outside the USA, make it illegal to import etc... Seriously, that was really stupid.
In any case, ALL the profits from Lexapro are off-shored to Ireland - where no Lexapro is made or sold.
So Mike, you're logic would indicate you're of the opinion corporations should not pay any tax on profits because they will pass that cost to the consumer.
I disagree.
I own a business here. I live here. I have lived on other countries too. The USA offers many things that make it best for me to do business and live here. Therefore, I believe the taxes I pay on my business should be paid to our country's government, not another country's government.
If you disagree that's fine. Then you should definitely vote Romney!

 

[Texanmike]

So wait. Taxing money that was made outside of the country, which will dissuade that money from ever coming back into the country, is a good idea?

How about taxing money made in the US, but moved out of the country? E.g. consider a company like Apple which has numerous patents, which they assign to an off-shore entity in a tax haven. This way when American companies pay royalties to Apple, Apple doesn't pay any income tax on those profits.

Or for that matter, when any foreign company sells anything in the US? Let's go back to the Constitution and tax imports. Most "free trade" countries do it through VAT taxes with American products sold in their countries. The US is getting scammed.

I agree we're getting scammed but I think we are doing it to ourselves. Import taxes will only increase the cost of living for people. We should import things as inexpensively as we possibly can. If we did that then we would increase the capital available to every person around the country. We do not lose when we import goods to the US. I was trying to use the example of lithium because it is not widely available in the US. By taxing the import of lithium into the US we would only increase the cost of all of the goods we rely on that use lithium.

Apple is being smart by doing business that way. I hate Apple, for the record but perhaps we should lower the tax rate on that income to make it more profitable to do that business here.

Mike

 

[tjvh]

There are a number of positions which keep me from considering the so called conservative party, or republicans.

The use of trickle down over trickle up economics. Giving large breaks and assistance to rich people who can already afford everything they want does not increase demand. They are already purchasing what they need and want. Giving money for food and the basics of life to the poor people actually generates jobs and demand. Poor people drive some of our biggest employers presently. These poor people also include elderly living on fixed incomes. Without these monies these people simply cannot buy food or goods from legitimate businesses. Food stamps and social security drive our food production industries, our cheap good markets like walmart, and things like our utilities. One can make the argument some of these companies buy foreign produced items, but places lie superstores are the biggest employers in the US, and you see them everywhere employing hundreds of people in your town. This is based on real economics of consumption. Poor people and the middle class are far larger populations that have to consume certain goods, and due to their numbers their consumption far surpasses any consumption the rich are even capable of. Our fuel and energy markets are demand driven by the purchasing power of the poor and when you cut that you send us further downward on the spiral of unemployment because less demand means cutting the jobs we have. Without welfare and social security your cut the throats o the biggest employers left in the US. The only way you do not do that is to actually employ those people which we do not have the jobs to do presently. The only way to make that sort of employment come about is to create the demand that only the poor and lower middle class can make. Mitt is blind to this fact.

2. Social programs: Often social programs like education, garbage and waste handling, law enforcement, and fire protection have no return profit. You cannot quantify how many crimes were deterred by police presence. You cannot quantify the revenue gained by a better educated workforce. You cannot tell the actual property saved by waste disposal or putting out fires. These are jobs in our community, and they are needed services for all of us. Do the republicans think we are going to line up in bucket brigades to save a mansion? Are we going to risk our lives confronting a person mugging the rich guy of his sports car? These are services our government provides that have failed time and again as private industries to handle the actual needs of society. These jobs are handled by the government because there is no profit in doing them. Still, if you cut them you lump another bunch of unemployed on a job market that does not have enough jobs. Mitt wants to just put these people out on the streets and hope someone in private industry pics up the slack and does a thankless and profitless job out of the goodness of their heart. That is just stupid talk.

Moral wars. It just costs a lot of money to enforce laws which have no societal value because of religious values. It costs money to enforce laws which restrict the times you can buy alcohol. It costs money to keep gays from marrying and make all these political campaigns to eliminate that. It costs money to prevent a mosque from going up in your neighborhood. It costs money to jail a guy for smoking a joint on his coutch because you hate drugs. I am not saying stop laws that punish things lie assault, theft, vandalism, and do damage to society, but I don't want to spend money to make sure some guy cannot buy a budweiser on sunday morning. I don't need to spend money to make sure two dudes do not get married.

This is a recent one: Mitt has spent a lot of time talking about frivelous and wasteful spending he wants to cut, but we never heard a word about how we could get 77 thousand more dollars a year from him that we take off his tax bill so his wife can have a ballarina horse. It is his legal right to take that, but that sort of pointless spending on a hobby that generates no tax revenue and only goes to people who can afford to have a horse whose sole purpose is to do shitty dances. I he wantds me to start trusting him then he should start demanding we eliminate those sorts of tax breaks and collect money rich guys use to make hobbies they can afford cheaper. Long before we starve an old couple for taking away their social security because we cannot afford it, or starve a family by taking away their food stamps Mitt can pay for his own dancing ponies.

Obama may not be the greatest president ever, but it isn't like the republicans were screaming their heads off opposing 77 thousand dollar tax credits for dancing horses for rich people. They are certainly not my heroes, and they are definitally not conservative. If we cannot afford important social programs like education, police, and fire protection then we fucked up, but those should be the last things we get rid of and Mitt clearly nows of quite a few tax loopholes which help people who need no help.

ughhhhhh... Don't people get ever get tired of rehashing over, over the same old "talking points' in lieu of original thought? Guess not.

 

[flacaltenn]

4000 PEOPLE, 5 Business units and 8 MANUFACTURING sites just slipped your notice since Abbott Labs Ireland was "only 17 people in Ireland"???? And you watch this closely I suppose? Or did ya read that in talkingpointsmemo last year and just mangle it?

With an operation like that -- there is NO WAY you're convince me that their Irish Income is illegimate and the results of sheltering profits from a single US drug.. Kinda confirms my original decision to skip this thread at your Obama == Romney comment..

 

[IndependntLogic]

I figured I should sum this up for you nicely:

The whole point I was making was that we have a problem with economic growth in the US. Our biggest problem is that our labor is simply too expensive. Why in the world would you choose to start a business here when you have options in other countries? The way to increase jobs in a struggling economy is not to add taxes which will dissuade companies from bringing jobs here. Its funny, you are talking about how bad it is that companies export jobs and you want to tax companies that do business here. If you really want to revitalize the economy then decrease the tax rate and lower the cost of doing business here in the US.

Mike

This is actually a very reasonable post. I disagree with it though. Companies are not exporting jobs because of taxes. Pretty much a zero factor there. Think about it. GE exported thousands of jobs over the last few years. How much did they pay in taxes here? Yeah that.
However, your point on the cost of labor IS valid.
So basically, if American workers would just be reasonable and accept an average income of $2 / day like they do in India, all would be fine?
What's interesting here, is that virtually everyone in this thread is good at the weak whackjob play: "I'll attack someone who at least has the balls to discuss policy but I sure won't do that myself!"

In this post, you seperate yourself from the small-minded. I may not agree with you but at least you have the stones to forward an opinion.

let's see if we can stretch that even further!

What positions on policy do you favor about whomever you're voting for?

 

[IndependntLogic]

4000 PEOPLE, 5 Business units and 8 MANUFACTURING sites just slipped your notice since Abbott Labs Ireland was "only 17 people in Ireland"???? And you watch this closely I suppose? Or did ya read that in talkingpointsmemo last year and just mangle it?

With an operation like that -- there is NO WAY you're convince me that their Irish Income is illegimate and the results of sheltering profits from a single US drug.. Kinda confirms my original decision to skip this thread at your Obama == Romney comment..

Okay. You're too stupid to understand that I was discussing the profits of one drug: Lexapro. Got it.

Oh and I was wrong (I can admit it when this happens). It's been a while since I read about this in Forbes or Bloomberg or whatever it was. It's Forrest Labs.

I'll see if I can find anything on transfer pricing etc...

 

[Oddball]

 

[Texanmike]

<<Sigh>>

1. I do not want to require any person or company to make things here.
2. I do not want to make it illegal to import things.
You're from the South, are you? Okay let me dumb this down. Since you brought up a drug, I'll use one for an example.

See Abbott laboratories.
They make drugs!
They make Lexapro in the USA! (by choice)
Lexapro is sold ONLY in the USA.
Lexapro is made and sold 100% in the USA! (by choice of Abbott)
Lexapro makes BILLIONS in profits!
In the USA ONLY!
Abbott opened a small office in Ireland with 17 people.
Abbott now offhsores ALL the profits from Lexapro to Ireland! (If you don't understand "offshores", find one of those Liberal Elitists and ask them to explain it to you).
Hundreds of Billions of dollars are offshored through loopholes that offer techniques like the "Double Irish" and "Dutch Sandwich".
Most Democrats, Independents and some Republicans think that since these profits are earned 100% in the USA, we should realize those revenues.
This would be very nice for that deficit thing.

If you're still confused or think that I want to oulaw breathing in Montana or whatever, let me know and I'll try to come up with even smaller words.

When you belittle Southerners and LIE about Abott Labs in Ireland --- I get interested enough in this thread to WARN your pompous ass to do it's homework.. From their Ireland website..


17 PEOPLE???? Us Southerners may be slow talking, but don't think that's because we're slow thinking..

<<Sigh>>

1. I do not want to require any person or company to make things here.
2. I do not want to make it illegal to import things.
You're from the South, are you? Okay let me dumb this down. Since you brought up a drug, I'll use one for an example.

See Abbott laboratories.
They make drugs!
They make Lexapro in the USA! (by choice)
Lexapro is sold ONLY in the USA.
Lexapro is made and sold 100% in the USA! (by choice of Abbott)
Lexapro makes BILLIONS in profits!
In the USA ONLY!
Abbott opened a small office in Ireland with 17 people.
Abbott now offhsores ALL the profits from Lexapro to Ireland! (If you don't understand "offshores", find one of those Liberal Elitists and ask them to explain it to you).
Hundreds of Billions of dollars are offshored through loopholes that offer techniques like the "Double Irish" and "Dutch Sandwich".
Most Democrats, Independents and some Republicans think that since these profits are earned 100% in the USA, we should realize those revenues.
This would be very nice for that deficit thing.

If you're still confused or think that I want to oulaw breathing in Montana or whatever, let me know and I'll try to come up with even smaller words.

So that we don't have any confusion, I'm from the south. I also grew up all over the world. I speak 4 languages and have brokered multi-national transactions in both the commodity and finished products market.

Now to clear up your ignorance. Notice I didn't capitalize lithium? For someone who is going to attempt to insult my education based on the region of the country I live in I would expect an understanding of the relevance of capitalism and the concept of proper nouns. I wasn't talking about the drug "Lithium", I was talking about the element, lithium. You know, the one that has a big Li under a small 3 on the periodic table? Its in most of the re-chargeable battery powered devices you use (cell phones, laptops etc). The point of my post (which was completely lost on you) was that when you add taxes you are discouraging investment in this country period. You get additional revenue from the income tax provided by the jobs that Abbot provides in the US.

But lets get back to your drug issue. What exactly would you like to do? Would you like to tax the manufacture of Lexapro? For the record, Lexapro is taxed. It is taxed at the point of sale. Are you saying that you are not benefiting from the manufacture of Lexapro? Are Americans not benefiting from the medicinal effects of Lexapro? If you decided to tax it then Abbot would have two options. They would either have to raise their prices (not a benefit to Americans) or they would need to cut into profits. You are not going to get a net gain by taxing Lexapro.

If you want the extra tax revenue, don't hide behind taking it from the "evil corporation" just take tax it from the people. They are going to pay it either way.

Understand?

Mike

For Flatcaltenn: That's fine but they attribute the income from US sales to the exec office in Ireland. That office was about 17 people, last time I read but it could be different. In any case, all production, sale and profits from lexapro, are realized int he USA - which was my point.

To Mike:
Well, I wouldn't have gotten so snarky if you hadn't come in with your completely stupid crap about how I somehow wanted to tax money made outside the USA, make it illegal to import etc... Seriously, that was really stupid.
In any case, ALL the profits from Lexapro are off-shored to Ireland - where no Lexapro is made or sold.
So Mike, you're logic would indicate you're of the opinion corporations should not pay any tax on profits because they will pass that cost to the consumer.
I disagree.
I own a business here. I live here. I have lived on other countries too. The USA offers many things that make it best for me to do business and live here. Therefore, I believe the taxes I pay on my business should be paid to our country's government, not another country's government.
If you disagree that's fine. Then you should definitely vote Romney!

IF (and its a big if) I vote for Romney I will take a barf bag into the voting booth with me. Personally I can't stand either candidate.


I'm not sure why it matters how the money gets taxed to be honest. Whether the money comes from the companies or from the consumers it still comes out of the consumer's pockets. I would like to see the taxes come straight from the consumers because then it becomes a visible tax. We complain about the taxes we pay but we really have very little idea how much tax we actually pay. Everything that you buy includes the price of the taxes that a company pays.

My main point though is that we are in serious economic trouble. Not national deficit trouble (though I think that is one of the top two threats to our sovereignty) but financial trouble. I don't think we should do anything to dissuade businesses doing any business in the US. I would absolutely love to put a 5 year tax holiday for any startup or repatriation of jobs in this country. You want to see the economy boom? Try that.

Mike

 

[freedombecki]

"So this is a thread about policy positions"

I am against Obama's policy of spending more taxpayers money than is necessary to run an orderly government. Romney served as governor in Massachusetts and did all he could do as a conservative to reduce that state's sad deficit, and he did all a man could do to at least slow down liberal spending. Had it not been for Romney's efforts, Massachusetts would not only be bankrupt, but it would lose business to other states. People don't put much confidence in government when it outspends income. There's too much of that going around.

I am against Obama's policy of taking over banks, their functions, and their decisions. I think that belongs in the private sector, and so does Romney.

I am against Obama's policy of wealth redistribution, and so is Mitt Romney. I think that is a slippery slope to put America in a slide down to a repressive form of government, and I will not support government that does such a thing.

I am against such a secretive government my Senators have no access to information the DOJ has with regard to the gunrunning situation in Mexico. I think it will lead to deleterious relations with the Mexican people, who've already lost tens of thousands of citizens to brutal torture-murders by powerful drug lords.

I am against closing down all drilling due to one accident, the facts of which have not been made public, nor will the truth ever come out about what happened to cause the oil leak. As President, Romney can and should return drilling to Americans in our waters in the Gulf.

I am against what Obama did, because he opened the door to communist countries to drill where we used to be before Obama did such a stupid and unilateral thing as to close down all new drilling in the gulf of Mexico. That punished all the southern states who didn't swing his way in 2008. I think it was a bad deal for America, and the price of gas has reflected that truly ill-thought decision to please Obama's anti-drilling-for-oil minority in America.

I am against crooked elections, the likes of which are now being monitored by those of us who think one person, one vote, is all there is. There have been almost 200 lawsuits leveled against local polls who conveniently "lose" a batch of votes after an election has been declared, then turning the results over to hand the election to a Democrat.

I am against governmental measures that throw a lot of people out of work and onto government assistance and into unemployment lines. I think Obama, by declaring war on businesses, free enterprise, and energy companies scared people into not replacing retirees, reducing their workforce until Obama is out, and for good reason: Obama declared war against aspiring entrepreneurs by regulating and unionizing every little thing Nancy Pelosi could slip into oversized bills and tell her Congress to just pass the bill, and that Congress could figure out what it says later..." baloney. Needless to mention, it was a team play that clusterfucked the health system from insurance companies to medical personnel and right to work laws of some states who choose to be competitive in the marketplace.

I simply think Romney will do a better job of running the USA than is being done running America off the face of the map like Obama has strained himself to do in the last 3.5 years, blaming President Bush for even things President Bush did not allow.

Most of all, I am against the policy to redistribute people's wealth. That's the people's money, not the government's plunder to be the righteous judge of who shall have and who shall lose what they have.

The founders never set up the country to be controlled by a strong central government, but instead, by states, each granted privileges and local power by the founder's gift of a constitution, limiting government.

At present, states have such diminishing power, they're determined to get it back by hook or by crook, and Obama policy has brought every bad thing to an ugly festering head.

I am against that kind of leadership failure.

 

[tjvh]

And the Obama Administration did so well with spending OUR Tax dollars and off-shoring jobs at General Motors to China. That sort of makes reason #2 of the OP sound sort of silly, or misinformed doesn't it?

The Obama Admin off-shored jobs in the private sector?

Hmmm. And you're saying other people sound silly and misinformed?

So you have nothing on policy position? Yeah, there's a big surprise.

There is no way in hell I'm voting for Obama

So you have nothing on policy position? Yeah, there's a big surprise.

Ok so Obama and the democrats, what did they do for outsourcing? Anyone got a link?

Took General Motors on the Taxpayer's dime, and set up shop in China.

 

[IndependntLogic]

When you belittle Southerners and LIE about Abott Labs in Ireland --- I get interested enough in this thread to WARN your pompous ass to do it's homework.. From their Ireland website..


17 PEOPLE???? Us Southerners may be slow talking, but don't think that's because we're slow thinking..

So that we don't have any confusion, I'm from the south. I also grew up all over the world. I speak 4 languages and have brokered multi-national transactions in both the commodity and finished products market.

Now to clear up your ignorance. Notice I didn't capitalize lithium? For someone who is going to attempt to insult my education based on the region of the country I live in I would expect an understanding of the relevance of capitalism and the concept of proper nouns. I wasn't talking about the drug "Lithium", I was talking about the element, lithium. You know, the one that has a big Li under a small 3 on the periodic table? Its in most of the re-chargeable battery powered devices you use (cell phones, laptops etc). The point of my post (which was completely lost on you) was that when you add taxes you are discouraging investment in this country period. You get additional revenue from the income tax provided by the jobs that Abbot provides in the US.

But lets get back to your drug issue. What exactly would you like to do? Would you like to tax the manufacture of Lexapro? For the record, Lexapro is taxed. It is taxed at the point of sale. Are you saying that you are not benefiting from the manufacture of Lexapro? Are Americans not benefiting from the medicinal effects of Lexapro? If you decided to tax it then Abbot would have two options. They would either have to raise their prices (not a benefit to Americans) or they would need to cut into profits. You are not going to get a net gain by taxing Lexapro.

If you want the extra tax revenue, don't hide behind taking it from the "evil corporation" just take tax it from the people. They are going to pay it either way.

Understand?

Mike

For Flatcaltenn: That's fine but they attribute the income from US sales to the exec office in Ireland. That office was about 17 people, last time I read but it could be different. In any case, all production, sale and profits from lexapro, are realized int he USA - which was my point.

To Mike:
Well, I wouldn't have gotten so snarky if you hadn't come in with your completely stupid crap about how I somehow wanted to tax money made outside the USA, make it illegal to import etc... Seriously, that was really stupid.
In any case, ALL the profits from Lexapro are off-shored to Ireland - where no Lexapro is made or sold.
So Mike, you're logic would indicate you're of the opinion corporations should not pay any tax on profits because they will pass that cost to the consumer.
I disagree.
I own a business here. I live here. I have lived on other countries too. The USA offers many things that make it best for me to do business and live here. Therefore, I believe the taxes I pay on my business should be paid to our country's government, not another country's government.
If you disagree that's fine. Then you should definitely vote Romney!

IF (and its a big if) I vote for Romney I will take a barf bag into the voting booth with me. Personally I can't stand either candidate.


I'm not sure why it matters how the money gets taxed to be honest. Whether the money comes from the companies or from the consumers it still comes out of the consumer's pockets. I would like to see the taxes come straight from the consumers because then it becomes a visible tax. We complain about the taxes we pay but we really have very little idea how much tax we actually pay. Everything that you buy includes the price of the taxes that a company pays.

My main point though is that we are in serious economic trouble. Not national deficit trouble (though I think that is one of the top two threats to our sovereignty) but financial trouble. I don't think we should do anything to dissuade businesses doing any business in the US. I would absolutely love to put a 5 year tax holiday for any startup or repatriation of jobs in this country. You want to see the economy boom? Try that.

Mike

Okay, that's solid. Again, I don't have to agree with someone to respect their opinion. At first, all you did was attack my reasons - and you got it wrong at that. I never talked about taxing money made outside the country etc... So I got snarky with you but let me apologize now. The tenor and intellect of our exchange has risen rapidly.

So I don't think taxing the rich is the answer to all our problems. I think that it's incredibly foolish of anyone to beloieve such a thing.
However, corporations are a different matter imo. We do have a serious deficit problem and $100B a year could sure help that.
i don't see tax reduction helping our economy at all. Most global companies only pay 17% anyway. They're shipping jobs to countries with a tax rate exceeding 30%.

So off topic a bit but what I would do is take AWAY the tax breaks and subsidies to global corporations AND foreign countries. That would help the deficit. Additionally, I would reallocate about 1/3 of those funds to companies as full tax credit and subsides! But on two conditions:
1. The company would have to have 100% American employees and
2. The company would have to show it pays all taxes in America.

Global corps aren't going anywhere. We have too big of a consumer base and one of the best infrastructures for operating businesses in the world. Obviously, I'm talking about small to medium sized businesses. Think of the effect THAT would have on unemployment, the economy and the deficit.
We could create 2,000,000 jobs that pay $40K+ overnight - at virtually no cost to AMERICAN businesses.
Oh well. Congress is owned by Big Biz so it's a pipe dream.

 

[flacaltenn]

<<Sigh>>

1. I do not want to require any person or company to make things here.
2. I do not want to make it illegal to import things.
You're from the South, are you? Okay let me dumb this down. Since you brought up a drug, I'll use one for an example.

See Abbott laboratories.
They make drugs!
They make Lexapro in the USA! (by choice)
Lexapro is sold ONLY in the USA.
Lexapro is made and sold 100% in the USA! (by choice of Abbott)
Lexapro makes BILLIONS in profits!
In the USA ONLY!
Abbott opened a small office in Ireland with 17 people.
Abbott now offhsores ALL the profits from Lexapro to Ireland! (If you don't understand "offshores", find one of those Liberal Elitists and ask them to explain it to you).
Hundreds of Billions of dollars are offshored through loopholes that offer techniques like the "Double Irish" and "Dutch Sandwich".
Most Democrats, Independents and some Republicans think that since these profits are earned 100% in the USA, we should realize those revenues.
This would be very nice for that deficit thing.

If you're still confused or think that I want to oulaw breathing in Montana or whatever, let me know and I'll try to come up with even smaller words.

When you belittle Southerners and LIE about Abott Labs in Ireland --- I get interested enough in this thread to WARN your pompous ass to do it's homework.. From their Ireland website..

<<Abbott really has 4000 people, 5 Business units, and 8 manufacturing in Ireland.. >>


17 PEOPLE???? Us Southerners may be slow talking, but don't think that's because we're slow thinking..

For Flatcaltenn: That's fine but they attribute the income from US sales to the exec office in Ireland. That office was about 17 people, last time I read but it could be different. In any case, all production, sale and profits from lexapro, are realized int he USA - which was my point.

I got kinda interested again in your "example" about Abbott Labs and LexaPro.. Besides the fact that you impugned my southern honor and TOTALLY MANGLED the size of the Irish Operation that Abbott ligitimately runs ---- I can't find an INKLING of any evidence that Abbott DEVELOPED or has ever sold LEXAPRO or it's generic.. Either IN the U.S. or anywhere else in the Milky Way...

Now ain't that odd??? The question really is -- do you have any credibility at all? Or isn't credibility an assett for a psychic of your esteem? OR (my favorite theory) --- is this just a desperate cry from a head case who's misplaced his LEXAPRO???

 

[Texanmike]

I figured I should sum this up for you nicely:

The whole point I was making was that we have a problem with economic growth in the US. Our biggest problem is that our labor is simply too expensive. Why in the world would you choose to start a business here when you have options in other countries? The way to increase jobs in a struggling economy is not to add taxes which will dissuade companies from bringing jobs here. Its funny, you are talking about how bad it is that companies export jobs and you want to tax companies that do business here. If you really want to revitalize the economy then decrease the tax rate and lower the cost of doing business here in the US.

Mike

This is actually a very reasonable post. I disagree with it though. Companies are not exporting jobs because of taxes. Pretty much a zero factor there. Think about it. GE exported thousands of jobs over the last few years. How much did they pay in taxes here? Yeah that.
However, your point on the cost of labor IS valid.
So basically, if American workers would just be reasonable and accept an average income of $2 / day like they do in India, all would be fine?
What's interesting here, is that virtually everyone in this thread is good at the weak whackjob play: "I'll attack someone who at least has the balls to discuss policy but I sure won't do that myself!"

In this post, you seperate yourself from the small-minded. I may not agree with you but at least you have the stones to forward an opinion.

let's see if we can stretch that even further!

What positions on policy do you favor about whomever you're voting for?

I would much rather discuss policy than practice my ad hominem attacks.

What policy am I concerned about? Sadly there is nobody that is going to try to advance the ideas I espouse. I'll tell you what I want to see done which I believe would begin to fix the mess that we find ourselves in.


I would like to see government divorce itself from both business and labor. I would like to see a day when government gets back to the practice of enforcing contracts and stops the practice of dictating the contracts. I am fine with having unions but not with unions advancing "labor laws". Conversely I am not ok with corporations having laws passed to benefit them. Ultimately there is no way to divorce them from government so I would ultimately like to see the concentration of power diluted and decentralized. I think it is far too easy for both labor unions (who are nothing more than a corporation which sells labor to other corporations) and other corporations to access power though policy.

There are so many things wrong with this country that I don't know where to begin. First, we need to end the practice of fractional reserve lending. We can have a fiat currency but we cannot have a pretend currency.

We need to stop government spending. If a candidate would come out and announce that we are cutting all government spending across the board by 30% then I would pull a lever with joy. I don't think that it makes sense to debate about what we are going to cut and by how much because nobody will every cut anything that way. Instead lets figure out how much we need to cut to pay our debt down and cut it that far. I don't want a 10 year plan to get to a balanced budget (by my estimate that would mean we would have a debt of about 72 Trillion). I want to start paying it down YESTERDAY.

I want to work to reduce dependence on government. I want a candidate who will make social security voluntary. If you take the amount that I pay into SSI and let me invest that same amount of money I make about 300% more than SSI makes for me in a year, even in this economy. If you are going to use my SSI to subsidize other people then just come out as tell me that I am paying a "social contract" tax or something like that.

As for tax policy, I believe that we need to simplify our tax code. Our tax code has over 3.5 Billion words in it. Want to make the government more efficient? Make it easier to pay taxes. I want to eliminate all loop holes. Agree on a percentage and tax it. Stop exemptions, stop subsidies and just tax one rate across the board. I also want to eliminate capital gains tax. It is taxing me twice.

That's a start.

Mike

 

[francoHFW]

Corps actually paid 12% most recently...

Obama believes in keeping spending up in this Pub World Depression. Why we're doing better than most. If Pubs would pass the Jobs Act we might get the world out of this. Pubs suq.

 

[IndependntLogic]

When you belittle Southerners and LIE about Abott Labs in Ireland --- I get interested enough in this thread to WARN your pompous ass to do it's homework.. From their Ireland website..

<<Abbott really has 4000 people, 5 Business units, and 8 manufacturing in Ireland.. >>


17 PEOPLE???? Us Southerners may be slow talking, but don't think that's because we're slow thinking..

For Flatcaltenn: That's fine but they attribute the income from US sales to the exec office in Ireland. That office was about 17 people, last time I read but it could be different. In any case, all production, sale and profits from lexapro, are realized int he USA - which was my point.

I got kinda interested again in your "example" about Abbott Labs and LexaPro.. Besides the fact that you impugned my southern honor and TOTALLY MANGLED the size of the Irish Operation that Abbott ligitimately runs ---- I can't find an INKLING of any evidence that Abbott DEVELOPED or has ever sold LEXAPRO or it's generic.. Either IN the U.S. or anywhere else in the Milky Way...

Now ain't that odd??? The question really is -- do you have any credibility at all? Or isn't credibility an assett for a psychic of your esteem? OR (my favorite theory) --- is this just a desperate cry from a head case who's misplaced his LEXAPRO???

I guess you missed the part where I explained it's been a while since i'd read about it andadmitted I was mistaken and that it's Forrest Labs that is doing this.

I figured I should sum this up for you nicely:

The whole point I was making was that we have a problem with economic growth in the US. Our biggest problem is that our labor is simply too expensive. Why in the world would you choose to start a business here when you have options in other countries? The way to increase jobs in a struggling economy is not to add taxes which will dissuade companies from bringing jobs here. Its funny, you are talking about how bad it is that companies export jobs and you want to tax companies that do business here. If you really want to revitalize the economy then decrease the tax rate and lower the cost of doing business here in the US.

Mike

This is actually a very reasonable post. I disagree with it though. Companies are not exporting jobs because of taxes. Pretty much a zero factor there. Think about it. GE exported thousands of jobs over the last few years. How much did they pay in taxes here? Yeah that.
However, your point on the cost of labor IS valid.
So basically, if American workers would just be reasonable and accept an average income of $2 / day like they do in India, all would be fine?
What's interesting here, is that virtually everyone in this thread is good at the weak whackjob play: "I'll attack someone who at least has the balls to discuss policy but I sure won't do that myself!"

In this post, you seperate yourself from the small-minded. I may not agree with you but at least you have the stones to forward an opinion.

let's see if we can stretch that even further!

What positions on policy do you favor about whomever you're voting for?

I would much rather discuss policy than practice my ad hominem attacks.

What policy am I concerned about? Sadly there is nobody that is going to try to advance the ideas I espouse. I'll tell you what I want to see done which I believe would begin to fix the mess that we find ourselves in.


I would like to see government divorce itself from both business and labor. I would like to see a day when government gets back to the practice of enforcing contracts and stops the practice of dictating the contracts. I am fine with having unions but not with unions advancing "labor laws". Conversely I am not ok with corporations having laws passed to benefit them. Ultimately there is no way to divorce them from government so I would ultimately like to see the concentration of power diluted and decentralized. I think it is far too easy for both labor unions (who are nothing more than a corporation which sells labor to other corporations) and other corporations to access power though policy.

There are so many things wrong with this country that I don't know where to begin. First, we need to end the practice of fractional reserve lending. We can have a fiat currency but we cannot have a pretend currency.

We need to stop government spending. If a candidate would come out and announce that we are cutting all government spending across the board by 30% then I would pull a lever with joy. I don't think that it makes sense to debate about what we are going to cut and by how much because nobody will every cut anything that way. Instead lets figure out how much we need to cut to pay our debt down and cut it that far. I don't want a 10 year plan to get to a balanced budget (by my estimate that would mean we would have a debt of about 72 Trillion). I want to start paying it down YESTERDAY.

I want to work to reduce dependence on government. I want a candidate who will make social security voluntary. If you take the amount that I pay into SSI and let me invest that same amount of money I make about 300% more than SSI makes for me in a year, even in this economy. If you are going to use my SSI to subsidize other people then just come out as tell me that I am paying a "social contract" tax or something like that.

As for tax policy, I believe that we need to simplify our tax code. Our tax code has over 3.5 Billion words in it. Want to make the government more efficient? Make it easier to pay taxes. I want to eliminate all loop holes. Agree on a percentage and tax it. Stop exemptions, stop subsidies and just tax one rate across the board. I also want to eliminate capital gains tax. It is taxing me twice.

That's a start.

Mike

That's a pretty good start!

BTW, I found an old article on transfer pricing. I trust Bloomberg isn't "too Liberal" a source?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...on-in-taxes-even-tea-party-would-condemn.html

 

[Quantum Windbag]

When you belittle Southerners and LIE about Abott Labs in Ireland --- I get interested enough in this thread to WARN your pompous ass to do it's homework.. From their Ireland website..

<<Abbott really has 4000 people, 5 Business units, and 8 manufacturing in Ireland.. >>


17 PEOPLE???? Us Southerners may be slow talking, but don't think that's because we're slow thinking..

For Flatcaltenn: That's fine but they attribute the income from US sales to the exec office in Ireland. That office was about 17 people, last time I read but it could be different. In any case, all production, sale and profits from lexapro, are realized int he USA - which was my point.

I got kinda interested again in your "example" about Abbott Labs and LexaPro.. Besides the fact that you impugned my southern honor and TOTALLY MANGLED the size of the Irish Operation that Abbott ligitimately runs ---- I can't find an INKLING of any evidence that Abbott DEVELOPED or has ever sold LEXAPRO or it's generic.. Either IN the U.S. or anywhere else in the Milky Way...

Now ain't that odd??? The question really is -- do you have any credibility at all? Or isn't credibility an assett for a psychic of your esteem? OR (my favorite theory) --- is this just a desperate cry from a head case who's misplaced his LEXAPRO???

Lexapro is actually made by Forest Labs, is out of patent and has generic alternatives, and is available worldwide, but don't expect Indepundit to respond to your factual posts with anything but insults.

 

[Texanmike]

For Flatcaltenn: That's fine but they attribute the income from US sales to the exec office in Ireland. That office was about 17 people, last time I read but it could be different. In any case, all production, sale and profits from lexapro, are realized int he USA - which was my point.

I got kinda interested again in your "example" about Abbott Labs and LexaPro.. Besides the fact that you impugned my southern honor and TOTALLY MANGLED the size of the Irish Operation that Abbott ligitimately runs ---- I can't find an INKLING of any evidence that Abbott DEVELOPED or has ever sold LEXAPRO or it's generic.. Either IN the U.S. or anywhere else in the Milky Way...

Now ain't that odd??? The question really is -- do you have any credibility at all? Or isn't credibility an assett for a psychic of your esteem? OR (my favorite theory) --- is this just a desperate cry from a head case who's misplaced his LEXAPRO???

I guess you missed the part where I explained it's been a while since i'd read about it andadmitted I was mistaken and that it's Forrest Labs that is doing this.

This is actually a very reasonable post. I disagree with it though. Companies are not exporting jobs because of taxes. Pretty much a zero factor there. Think about it. GE exported thousands of jobs over the last few years. How much did they pay in taxes here? Yeah that.
However, your point on the cost of labor IS valid.
So basically, if American workers would just be reasonable and accept an average income of $2 / day like they do in India, all would be fine?
What's interesting here, is that virtually everyone in this thread is good at the weak whackjob play: "I'll attack someone who at least has the balls to discuss policy but I sure won't do that myself!"

In this post, you seperate yourself from the small-minded. I may not agree with you but at least you have the stones to forward an opinion.

let's see if we can stretch that even further!

What positions on policy do you favor about whomever you're voting for?

I would much rather discuss policy than practice my ad hominem attacks.

What policy am I concerned about? Sadly there is nobody that is going to try to advance the ideas I espouse. I'll tell you what I want to see done which I believe would begin to fix the mess that we find ourselves in.


I would like to see government divorce itself from both business and labor. I would like to see a day when government gets back to the practice of enforcing contracts and stops the practice of dictating the contracts. I am fine with having unions but not with unions advancing "labor laws". Conversely I am not ok with corporations having laws passed to benefit them. Ultimately there is no way to divorce them from government so I would ultimately like to see the concentration of power diluted and decentralized. I think it is far too easy for both labor unions (who are nothing more than a corporation which sells labor to other corporations) and other corporations to access power though policy.

There are so many things wrong with this country that I don't know where to begin. First, we need to end the practice of fractional reserve lending. We can have a fiat currency but we cannot have a pretend currency.

We need to stop government spending. If a candidate would come out and announce that we are cutting all government spending across the board by 30% then I would pull a lever with joy. I don't think that it makes sense to debate about what we are going to cut and by how much because nobody will every cut anything that way. Instead lets figure out how much we need to cut to pay our debt down and cut it that far. I don't want a 10 year plan to get to a balanced budget (by my estimate that would mean we would have a debt of about 72 Trillion). I want to start paying it down YESTERDAY.

I want to work to reduce dependence on government. I want a candidate who will make social security voluntary. If you take the amount that I pay into SSI and let me invest that same amount of money I make about 300% more than SSI makes for me in a year, even in this economy. If you are going to use my SSI to subsidize other people then just come out as tell me that I am paying a "social contract" tax or something like that.

As for tax policy, I believe that we need to simplify our tax code. Our tax code has over 3.5 Billion words in it. Want to make the government more efficient? Make it easier to pay taxes. I want to eliminate all loop holes. Agree on a percentage and tax it. Stop exemptions, stop subsidies and just tax one rate across the board. I also want to eliminate capital gains tax. It is taxing me twice.

That's a start.

Mike

That's a pretty good start!

BTW, I found an old article on transfer pricing. I trust Bloomberg isn't "too Liberal" a source?

U.S. Companies Dodge $60 Billion in Taxes With Global Odyssey - Bloomberg

I'm aware of the offshoring of profits I just don't think it changes much. I don't think that our government has a revenue problem, I think we have a spending problem. If you begin taxing these companies they will only pass the taxes onto the consumer. If there is anything we should have learned from the deficit it is that the government is not the best arbiter of our capital. I think that a lot of the functions the federal government undertakes are unnecessary. I believe that most of them are best serviced by the private market. That being said, if they tax "profits" of these companies they will only be taxing the consumer. This kind of gets to my reason for wanting decentralization of power. I have zero desire to hand an extra $60B of taxpayer money to the same entity which has accrued a $14T debt. I would much rather see the consumers keep that money. Solving the debt problem will not come because we give the government an extra $60B. The only way that problem gets solved is by the government spending $60B less.

Mike