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The indigenous people of Palestine converted to Christianity, forcefully or otherwise, after 380 AD when Christianity became the state religion of Rome.
Fine. Have it your way. Now the *cough cough* indigenous people are being converted, forcefully or otherwise, back to being Jewish.
Of course it's true. Do you really believe all the people that practiced Judaism before 380 AD mysteriously disappeared?
Funny how there's no Palestine or Palestinian people in the Koran, as early as 1400, eh?Achmed, you really need to listen to your own Zionist Koran, which has copied from the Zionist OT and Christian New Testament. There is no mention of Palestine or Palestinians in your Koran, Achmed, now why is that?
THE QUR'AN SAYS:
The Qur'an relates the words by which Moses ordered the Israelites:
"And [remember] when Moses said to his people: 'O my people, call in remembrance the favour of God unto you, when he produced prophets among you, made you kings, and gave to you what He had not given to any other among the peoples. O my people, enter the Holy Land which God has assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin.'" [Qur'an 5:20-21]
"To Moses We [Allah] gave nine clear signs. Ask the Israelites how he [Moses] first appeared amongst them. Pharoah said to him: 'Moses, I can see that you are bewitched.' 'You know full well,' he [Moses] replied, 'that none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth has revealed these visible signs. Pharoah, you are doomed.'"
"Pharoah sought to scare them [the Israelites] out of the land [of Israel]: but We [Allah] drowned him [Pharoah] together with all who were with him. Then We [Allah] said to the Israelites: 'Dwell in this land [the Land of Israel]. When the promise of the hereafter [End of Days] comes to be fulfilled, We [Allah] shall assemble you [the Israelites] all together [in the Land of Israel]."
"We [Allah] have revealed the Qur'an with the truth, and with the truth it has come down. We have sent you [Muhammed] forth only to proclaim good news and to give warning."
[Qur'an, "Night Journey," chapter 17:100-104]
The Koran is also not a valid historical source, especially the bits cribbed from the Bible/Torah.
Not really, the indigenous people were still there, whatever they called thjemselves, or were known as, at the time, unlike the modern day Zionist pseudo-"Israelites" from Europe, who have no links with the area other than a tenuous religious one.
Yes, the indigenous people were still there.
They called themselves Jews, and are still known as Jews.
Jews created Political Zionism in order to regain sovereignty over Jewish Ancient Land.
Indigenous People = Jews
Zionism = Jews
Indigenous People + Zionism = Israel
Well in fact they would have called themselves "Judeans" or "Palestinians" or "Syrians" or "Ottomans" or "Muslims". Some of them may well have practiced Judaism as their religion, but the word "Jew" is a relatively modern European invention and was used from the 16th century as an insult. In fact it was considered so offensive after Jewish "emancipation" in Europe in the 19th century, that the followers of Judaism were called "Hebrews" by polite society.
Political Zionism was invented by a bunch of lunatic irridentists who made up a pseudo-history in which the European "Jewish people" owere somehow the "rightful owners" of lands they had no connection to other than a tenuous religious one.
Yes, the indigenous people were still there.
They called themselves Jews, and are still known as Jews.
Jews created Political Zionism in order to regain sovereignty over Jewish Ancient Land.
Indigenous People = Jews
Zionism = Jews
Indigenous People + Zionism = Israel
The indigenous people of Palestine converted to Christianity, forcefully or otherwise, after 380 AD when Christianity became the state religion of Rome. The Zionists are Europeans.
Having Nightmares????
Take a pill and call me in the morning
Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted to Christianity, and later Islam, not Arab in origin....
Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted
Well, let's say that's true, just for the sake of argument. (Although I really don't believe it, but look at where I'm going with this.) Shouldn't the people who practice Judaism today have more rights to the Land than those who practice Islam? After all, you yourself admit that the Natives are really Jews.
By that logic, those who practice Greco-Roman Paganism, today have more rights over the entire Mediterranean basin and the countries and peoples that surround it than the native populations..
Yes, the indigenous people were still there.
They called themselves Jews, and are still known as Jews.
Jews created Political Zionism in order to regain sovereignty over Jewish Ancient Land.
Indigenous People = Jews
Zionism = Jews
Indigenous People + Zionism = Israel
The indigenous people of Palestine converted to Christianity, forcefully or otherwise, after 380 AD when Christianity became the state religion of Rome. The Zionists are Europeans.
Having Nightmares????
Take a pill and call me in the morning
Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted to Christianity, and later Islam, not Arab in origin....
Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted
Well, let's say that's true, just for the sake of argument. (Although I really don't believe it, but look at where I'm going with this.) Shouldn't the people who practice Judaism today have more rights to the Land than those who practice Islam? After all, you yourself admit that the Natives are really Jews.
Of course it's true. Do you really believe all the people that practiced Judaism before 380 AD mysteriously disappeared? Aelia Capitolina (Jerusalem) was an exclusively Christian city when the Muslims conquered it in 637-638 AD. Interestingly, it was still overwhelmingly Christian, not Roman Catholic, when the Crusaders reconquered it.
Why would the religion of a person have any bearing on living in a particular area? A European that practices Christianity has no more right to the land where the religion was born than a European that practices Judaism. Neither have the ancestral connection that the native people do, whether the native people practice Christianity or Islam.
By the way, besides Christianity the indigenous people of Palestine practiced a myriad of religions before converting to Christianity as a result of the adoption of Christianity as the state religion. The Roman Pantheon, Mithraism, Samaritanism, Judaism, Zoroastrianism etc.
The indigenous people of Palestine converted to Christianity, forcefully or otherwise, after 380 AD when Christianity became the state religion of Rome.
Fine. Have it your way. Now the *cough cough* indigenous people are being converted, forcefully or otherwise, back to being Jewish.
I haven't heard of mass conversions of the indigenous Muslims and Christians to Judaism. But it could be a solution. If the Muslims and Christians adopted Judaism there would be nothing to fight over.
The indigenous people of Palestine converted to Christianity, forcefully or otherwise, after 380 AD when Christianity became the state religion of Rome.
Fine. Have it your way. Now the *cough cough* indigenous people are being converted, forcefully or otherwise, back to being Jewish.
I haven't heard of mass conversions of the indigenous Muslims and Christians to Judaism. But it could be a solution. If the Muslims and Christians adopted Judaism there would be nothing to fight over.
That is because Judaism has hardly ever forcibly converted people, and have definitely not done any forced conversion since King David gave the Jebusites a choice.
If conversion was a daily thing with Judaism, as it is in Christianity and Islam, there would be many more Jews on the planet than just about 15 Million of them.
People convert to Judaism because they want to come to it, not because Jews in the world are going out of their way to convert people into the faith. And not all who want to convert to Judaism are accepted into the faith.
Of course it's true. Do you really believe all the people that practiced Judaism before 380 AD mysteriously disappeared?
Here's an idea -- maybe they were expelled. And they went to, oh, I don't know, maybe Europe.
Of course it's true. Do you really believe all the people that practiced Judaism before 380 AD mysteriously disappeared?
Here's an idea -- maybe they were expelled. And they went to, oh, I don't know, maybe Europe.
Josephus indicates that 90,000 were brought to Rome, hardly the total population.
The indigenous people of Palestine converted to Christianity, forcefully or otherwise, after 380 AD when Christianity became the state religion of Rome.
Fine. Have it your way. Now the *cough cough* indigenous people are being converted, forcefully or otherwise, back to being Jewish.
I haven't heard of mass conversions of the indigenous Muslims and Christians to Judaism. But it could be a solution. If the Muslims and Christians adopted Judaism there would be nothing to fight over.
That is because Judaism has hardly ever forcibly converted people, and have definitely not done any forced conversion since King David gave the Jebusites a choice.
If conversion was a daily thing with Judaism, as it is in Christianity and Islam, there would be many more Jews on the planet than just about 15 Million of them.
People convert to Judaism because they want to come to it, not because Jews in the world are going out of their way to convert people into the faith. And not all who want to convert to Judaism are accepted into the faith.
The indigenous people of Palestine converted to Christianity, forcefully or otherwise, after 380 AD when Christianity became the state religion of Rome. The Zionists are Europeans.
Having Nightmares????
Take a pill and call me in the morning
Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted to Christianity, and later Islam, not Arab in origin....
Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted
Well, let's say that's true, just for the sake of argument. (Although I really don't believe it, but look at where I'm going with this.) Shouldn't the people who practice Judaism today have more rights to the Land than those who practice Islam? After all, you yourself admit that the Natives are really Jews.
Of course it's true. Do you really believe all the people that practiced Judaism before 380 AD mysteriously disappeared? Aelia Capitolina (Jerusalem) was an exclusively Christian city when the Muslims conquered it in 637-638 AD. Interestingly, it was still overwhelmingly Christian, not Roman Catholic, when the Crusaders reconquered it.
Why would the religion of a person have any bearing on living in a particular area? A European that practices Christianity has no more right to the land where the religion was born than a European that practices Judaism. Neither have the ancestral connection that the native people do, whether the native people practice Christianity or Islam.
By the way, besides Christianity the indigenous people of Palestine practiced a myriad of religions before converting to Christianity as a result of the adoption of Christianity as the state religion. The Roman Pantheon, Mithraism, Samaritanism, Judaism, Zoroastrianism etc.
You know that it is true because you read it somewhere?
Where?
Or did you come to this conclusion all on your own?
Based on what?
The indigenous people of Palestine converted to Christianity, forcefully or otherwise, after 380 AD when Christianity became the state religion of Rome.
Fine. Have it your way. Now the *cough cough* indigenous people are being converted, forcefully or otherwise, back to being Jewish.
I haven't heard of mass conversions of the indigenous Muslims and Christians to Judaism. But it could be a solution. If the Muslims and Christians adopted Judaism there would be nothing to fight over.
Funny how there's no Palestine or Palestinian people in the Koran, as early as 1400, eh?The Koran is also not a valid historical source, especially the bits cribbed from the Bible/Torah.
Not really, the indigenous people were still there, whatever they called thjemselves, or were known as, at the time, unlike the modern day Zionist pseudo-"Israelites" from Europe, who have no links with the area other than a tenuous religious one.
Yes, the indigenous people were still there.
They called themselves Jews, and are still known as Jews.
Jews created Political Zionism in order to regain sovereignty over Jewish Ancient Land.
Indigenous People = Jews
Zionism = Jews
Indigenous People + Zionism = Israel
Well in fact they would have called themselves "Judeans" or "Palestinians" or "Syrians" or "Ottomans" or "Muslims". Some of them may well have practiced Judaism as their religion, but the word "Jew" is a relatively modern European invention and was used from the 16th century as an insult. In fact it was considered so offensive after Jewish "emancipation" in Europe in the 19th century, that the followers of Judaism were called "Hebrews" by polite society.
Political Zionism was invented by a bunch of lunatic irridentists who made up a pseudo-history in which the European "Jewish people" owere somehow the "rightful owners" of lands they had no connection to other than a tenuous religious one.
<<but the word "Jew" is a relatively modern European invention and was used from the 16th century as an insult.>>>
I think not !
One has to wonder how nonsense like this gets started and then gets around the world
-------------------
The word 'Jew' originates with the ancient Israelite kingdom of Judah, but what its name means is a matter of great controversy. It could even mean 'Thank God'.
Why are Jews called Jews?
----------
Jew (word) - Wikipedia
The term Jew passed into the English language from the Greek Ioudaios and Latin Iudaeus, from which the Old French giu was derived after dropping the letter "d", and later after a variety of forms found in early English (from about the year 1000) such as: Iudea, Gyu, Giu, Iuu, Iuw, Iew developed into the English word “Jew.” It thus ultimately originates in the Biblical Hebrew word Yehudi meaning "from the Tribe of Judah", "from the Kingdom of Judah", or "Jew". The Jewish ethnonym in Hebrew is יהודים, Yehudim (plural of יהודי, Yehudi).
The indigenous people of Palestine converted to Christianity, forcefully or otherwise, after 380 AD when Christianity became the state religion of Rome. The Zionists are Europeans.
Having Nightmares????
Take a pill and call me in the morning
Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted to Christianity, and later Islam, not Arab in origin....
Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted
Well, let's say that's true, just for the sake of argument. (Although I really don't believe it, but look at where I'm going with this.) Shouldn't the people who practice Judaism today have more rights to the Land than those who practice Islam? After all, you yourself admit that the Natives are really Jews.
By that logic, those who practice Greco-Roman Paganism, today have more rights over the entire Mediterranean basin and the countries and peoples that surround it than the native populations..
Name those groups
That is because Judaism has hardly ever forcibly converted people, and have definitely not done any forced conversion since King David gave the Jebusites a choice.
...and Josephus was prone to exaggeration, you could probably knock a zero or two off that number.Of course it's true. Do you really believe all the people that practiced Judaism before 380 AD mysteriously disappeared?
Here's an idea -- maybe they were expelled. And they went to, oh, I don't know, maybe Europe.
Josephus indicates that 90,000 were brought to Rome, hardly the total population.
OK, noone has been able to refute even a part of point one. Let's look here from point 2 in the OP:
SECOND... the Torah forbids us to end the exile and establish a state and army until the Holy One, blessed He, in His Glory and Essence will redeem us. This is forbidden even if the state is conducted according to the law of the Torah because arising from the exile itself is forbidden, and we are required to remain under the rule of the nations of the world, as is explained in the book VAYOEL MOSHE. If we transgress this injunction, He will bring upon us (may we be spared) terrible punishment.
Is there anything from traditional Judaism, from our rabbis and sages for 1000s of years that refute the above point (prior to zionism)?
OK, noone has been able to refute even a part of point one. Let's look here from point 2 in the OP:
SECOND... the Torah forbids us to end the exile and establish a state and army until the Holy One, blessed He, in His Glory and Essence will redeem us. This is forbidden even if the state is conducted according to the law of the Torah because arising from the exile itself is forbidden, and we are required to remain under the rule of the nations of the world, as is explained in the book VAYOEL MOSHE. If we transgress this injunction, He will bring upon us (may we be spared) terrible punishment.
Is there anything from traditional Judaism, from our rabbis and sages for 1000s of years that refute the above point (prior to zionism)?
Israel is not a theocratic state. You should attempt to learn the definitions of terms you use and use incorrectly.When a "Jewish" theocratic state causes this many geopolitical problems, then you're damn right it belongs in political discussion.
And for dumbass 60s fan...
your cut and paste has nothing to do with this thread.
Look at what you quoted and try again!
