The People of Israel oppose the so-called "State of Israel" for four reasons.

[louie888]

I know there is much banter about the two state solution and it goes nowhere. Please, for this thread focus on these four reasons. Do you agree with them? Do you disagree? Are there parts that seem correct? We might actually find some common ground.

The People of Israel oppose the so-called "State of Israel" for four reasons:

FIRST -- The so-called "State of Israel" is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence and foundation of the People of Israel, as is explained above. The only time that the People of Israel were permitted to have a state was two thousand years ago when the glory of the creator was upon us, and likewise in the future when the glory of the creator will once more be revealed, and the whole world will serve Him, then He Himself (without any human effort or force of arms) will grant us a kingdom founded on Divine Service. However, a worldly state, like those possessed by other peoples, is contradictory to the true essence of the People of Israel. Whoever calls this the salvation of Israel shows that he denies the essence of the People of Israel, and substitutes another nature, a worldly materialistic nature, and therefore sets before them, a worldly materialistic "salvation," and the means of achieving this "salvation" is also worldly and materialistic i.e. to organize a land and army. However, the true salvation of the People of Israel is to draw close to the Creator. This is not done by organization and force of arms. Rather it is done by occupation to Torah and good deeds.

SECOND -- Because of all of this and other reasons the Torah forbids us to end the exile and establish a state and army until the Holy One, blessed He, in His Glory and Essence will redeem us. This is forbidden even if the state is conducted according to the law of the Torah because arising from the exile itself is forbidden, and we are required to remain under the rule of the nations of the world, as is explained in the book VAYOEL MOSHE. If we transgress this injunction, He will bring upon us (may we be spared) terrible punishment.

THIRD -- Aside from arising from exile, all the deeds of the Zionists are diametrically opposed to the Faith and the Torah. Because the foundation of the Faith and Torah of Israel is that the Torah was revealed from heaven, and there is reward for those who obey it and punishment for those who transgress it. The entire People of Israel is required to obey the Torah, and whoever doesn't want to, ceases to be part of the congregation of Israel.

FOURTH -- Aside from the fact that they themselves do not obey the Torah they do everything they can to prevent anyone they get under their power from fulfilling the commands of the Torah, the claims to freedom of religion are lies. They fight with all of their strength to destroy the Faith of Israel.

Why Orthodox Jews are Opposed to the Zionist State

 

[aris2chat]

I know there is much banter about the two state solution and it goes nowhere. Please, for this thread focus on these four reasons. Do you agree with them? Do you disagree? Are there parts that seem correct? We might actually find some common ground.

The People of Israel oppose the so-called "State of Israel" for four reasons:

FIRST -- The so-called "State of Israel" is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence and foundation of the People of Israel, as is explained above. The only time that the People of Israel were permitted to have a state was two thousand years ago when the glory of the creator was upon us, and likewise in the future when the glory of the creator will once more be revealed, and the whole world will serve Him, then He Himself (without any human effort or force of arms) will grant us a kingdom founded on Divine Service. However, a worldly state, like those possessed by other peoples, is contradictory to the true essence of the People of Israel. Whoever calls this the salvation of Israel shows that he denies the essence of the People of Israel, and substitutes another nature, a worldly materialistic nature, and therefore sets before them, a worldly materialistic "salvation," and the means of achieving this "salvation" is also worldly and materialistic i.e. to organize a land and army. However, the true salvation of the People of Israel is to draw close to the Creator. This is not done by organization and force of arms. Rather it is done by occupation to Torah and good deeds.

SECOND -- Because of all of this and other reasons the Torah forbids us to end the exile and establish a state and army until the Holy One, blessed He, in His Glory and Essence will redeem us. This is forbidden even if the state is conducted according to the law of the Torah because arising from the exile itself is forbidden, and we are required to remain under the rule of the nations of the world, as is explained in the book VAYOEL MOSHE. If we transgress this injunction, He will bring upon us (may we be spared) terrible punishment.

THIRD -- Aside from arising from exile, all the deeds of the Zionists are diametrically opposed to the Faith and the Torah. Because the foundation of the Faith and Torah of Israel is that the Torah was revealed from heaven, and there is reward for those who obey it and punishment for those who transgress it. The entire People of Israel is required to obey the Torah, and whoever doesn't want to, ceases to be part of the congregation of Israel.

FOURTH -- Aside from the fact that they themselves do not obey the Torah they do everything they can to prevent anyone they get under their power from fulfilling the commands of the Torah, the claims to freedom of religion are lies. They fight with all of their strength to destroy the Faith of Israel.

Why Orthodox Jews are Opposed to the Zionist State

NETUREI KARTA, are you mad?

what trash

 

[louie888]

I know there is much banter about the two state solution and it goes nowhere. Please, for this thread focus on these four reasons. Do you agree with them? Do you disagree? Are there parts that seem correct? We might actually find some common ground.

The People of Israel oppose the so-called "State of Israel" for four reasons:

FIRST -- The so-called "State of Israel" is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence and foundation of the People of Israel, as is explained above. The only time that the People of Israel were permitted to have a state was two thousand years ago when the glory of the creator was upon us, and likewise in the future when the glory of the creator will once more be revealed, and the whole world will serve Him, then He Himself (without any human effort or force of arms) will grant us a kingdom founded on Divine Service. However, a worldly state, like those possessed by other peoples, is contradictory to the true essence of the People of Israel. Whoever calls this the salvation of Israel shows that he denies the essence of the People of Israel, and substitutes another nature, a worldly materialistic nature, and therefore sets before them, a worldly materialistic "salvation," and the means of achieving this "salvation" is also worldly and materialistic i.e. to organize a land and army. However, the true salvation of the People of Israel is to draw close to the Creator. This is not done by organization and force of arms. Rather it is done by occupation to Torah and good deeds.

SECOND -- Because of all of this and other reasons the Torah forbids us to end the exile and establish a state and army until the Holy One, blessed He, in His Glory and Essence will redeem us. This is forbidden even if the state is conducted according to the law of the Torah because arising from the exile itself is forbidden, and we are required to remain under the rule of the nations of the world, as is explained in the book VAYOEL MOSHE. If we transgress this injunction, He will bring upon us (may we be spared) terrible punishment.

THIRD -- Aside from arising from exile, all the deeds of the Zionists are diametrically opposed to the Faith and the Torah. Because the foundation of the Faith and Torah of Israel is that the Torah was revealed from heaven, and there is reward for those who obey it and punishment for those who transgress it. The entire People of Israel is required to obey the Torah, and whoever doesn't want to, ceases to be part of the congregation of Israel.

FOURTH -- Aside from the fact that they themselves do not obey the Torah they do everything they can to prevent anyone they get under their power from fulfilling the commands of the Torah, the claims to freedom of religion are lies. They fight with all of their strength to destroy the Faith of Israel.

Why Orthodox Jews are Opposed to the Zionist State

NETUREI KARTA, are you mad?

what trash

Please state what points they made that you disagree with, otherwise you are just trolling. There are four clear and well articulated points. Have at it.

 

[MJB12741]

I know there is much banter about the two state solution and it goes nowhere. Please, for this thread focus on these four reasons. Do you agree with them? Do you disagree? Are there parts that seem correct? We might actually find some common ground.

The People of Israel oppose the so-called "State of Israel" for four reasons:

FIRST -- The so-called "State of Israel" is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence and foundation of the People of Israel, as is explained above. The only time that the People of Israel were permitted to have a state was two thousand years ago when the glory of the creator was upon us, and likewise in the future when the glory of the creator will once more be revealed, and the whole world will serve Him, then He Himself (without any human effort or force of arms) will grant us a kingdom founded on Divine Service. However, a worldly state, like those possessed by other peoples, is contradictory to the true essence of the People of Israel. Whoever calls this the salvation of Israel shows that he denies the essence of the People of Israel, and substitutes another nature, a worldly materialistic nature, and therefore sets before them, a worldly materialistic "salvation," and the means of achieving this "salvation" is also worldly and materialistic i.e. to organize a land and army. However, the true salvation of the People of Israel is to draw close to the Creator. This is not done by organization and force of arms. Rather it is done by occupation to Torah and good deeds.

SECOND -- Because of all of this and other reasons the Torah forbids us to end the exile and establish a state and army until the Holy One, blessed He, in His Glory and Essence will redeem us. This is forbidden even if the state is conducted according to the law of the Torah because arising from the exile itself is forbidden, and we are required to remain under the rule of the nations of the world, as is explained in the book VAYOEL MOSHE. If we transgress this injunction, He will bring upon us (may we be spared) terrible punishment.

THIRD -- Aside from arising from exile, all the deeds of the Zionists are diametrically opposed to the Faith and the Torah. Because the foundation of the Faith and Torah of Israel is that the Torah was revealed from heaven, and there is reward for those who obey it and punishment for those who transgress it. The entire People of Israel is required to obey the Torah, and whoever doesn't want to, ceases to be part of the congregation of Israel.

FOURTH -- Aside from the fact that they themselves do not obey the Torah they do everything they can to prevent anyone they get under their power from fulfilling the commands of the Torah, the claims to freedom of religion are lies. They fight with all of their strength to destroy the Faith of Israel.

Why Orthodox Jews are Opposed to the Zionist State

NETUREI KARTA, are you mad?

what trash

LMAO! Louie is so funny. How can we get him to post here more often?

 

[aris2chat]

I know there is much banter about the two state solution and it goes nowhere. Please, for this thread focus on these four reasons. Do you agree with them? Do you disagree? Are there parts that seem correct? We might actually find some common ground.

The People of Israel oppose the so-called "State of Israel" for four reasons:

FIRST -- The so-called "State of Israel" is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence and foundation of the People of Israel, as is explained above. The only time that the People of Israel were permitted to have a state was two thousand years ago when the glory of the creator was upon us, and likewise in the future when the glory of the creator will once more be revealed, and the whole world will serve Him, then He Himself (without any human effort or force of arms) will grant us a kingdom founded on Divine Service. However, a worldly state, like those possessed by other peoples, is contradictory to the true essence of the People of Israel. Whoever calls this the salvation of Israel shows that he denies the essence of the People of Israel, and substitutes another nature, a worldly materialistic nature, and therefore sets before them, a worldly materialistic "salvation," and the means of achieving this "salvation" is also worldly and materialistic i.e. to organize a land and army. However, the true salvation of the People of Israel is to draw close to the Creator. This is not done by organization and force of arms. Rather it is done by occupation to Torah and good deeds.

SECOND -- Because of all of this and other reasons the Torah forbids us to end the exile and establish a state and army until the Holy One, blessed He, in His Glory and Essence will redeem us. This is forbidden even if the state is conducted according to the law of the Torah because arising from the exile itself is forbidden, and we are required to remain under the rule of the nations of the world, as is explained in the book VAYOEL MOSHE. If we transgress this injunction, He will bring upon us (may we be spared) terrible punishment.

THIRD -- Aside from arising from exile, all the deeds of the Zionists are diametrically opposed to the Faith and the Torah. Because the foundation of the Faith and Torah of Israel is that the Torah was revealed from heaven, and there is reward for those who obey it and punishment for those who transgress it. The entire People of Israel is required to obey the Torah, and whoever doesn't want to, ceases to be part of the congregation of Israel.

FOURTH -- Aside from the fact that they themselves do not obey the Torah they do everything they can to prevent anyone they get under their power from fulfilling the commands of the Torah, the claims to freedom of religion are lies. They fight with all of their strength to destroy the Faith of Israel.

Why Orthodox Jews are Opposed to the Zionist State

NETUREI KARTA, are you mad?

what trash

Please state what points they made that you disagree with, otherwise you are just trolling. There are four clear and well articulated points. Have at it.

don't even begin to presume NK are true jews or authorities on
judaism

You present a premise from a crack pot site and want a real discussion?

Try presenting something real, not fantasy land fairy tales

 

[Shusha]

We disagree. Human rights and freedoms should not be assigned or removed based on theology -- anyone's theology -- let alone a theology which is so far removed from the principles of the Jewish faith so as to not fall under that umbrella.

Are you claiming that theology should be the basis for determining human rights and freedoms?

 

[Hollie]

I know there is much banter about the two state solution and it goes nowhere. Please, for this thread focus on these four reasons. Do you agree with them? Do you disagree? Are there parts that seem correct? We might actually find some common ground.

The People of Israel oppose the so-called "State of Israel" for four reasons:

FIRST -- The so-called "State of Israel" is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence and foundation of the People of Israel, as is explained above. The only time that the People of Israel were permitted to have a state was two thousand years ago when the glory of the creator was upon us, and likewise in the future when the glory of the creator will once more be revealed, and the whole world will serve Him, then He Himself (without any human effort or force of arms) will grant us a kingdom founded on Divine Service. However, a worldly state, like those possessed by other peoples, is contradictory to the true essence of the People of Israel. Whoever calls this the salvation of Israel shows that he denies the essence of the People of Israel, and substitutes another nature, a worldly materialistic nature, and therefore sets before them, a worldly materialistic "salvation," and the means of achieving this "salvation" is also worldly and materialistic i.e. to organize a land and army. However, the true salvation of the People of Israel is to draw close to the Creator. This is not done by organization and force of arms. Rather it is done by occupation to Torah and good deeds.

SECOND -- Because of all of this and other reasons the Torah forbids us to end the exile and establish a state and army until the Holy One, blessed He, in His Glory and Essence will redeem us. This is forbidden even if the state is conducted according to the law of the Torah because arising from the exile itself is forbidden, and we are required to remain under the rule of the nations of the world, as is explained in the book VAYOEL MOSHE. If we transgress this injunction, He will bring upon us (may we be spared) terrible punishment.

THIRD -- Aside from arising from exile, all the deeds of the Zionists are diametrically opposed to the Faith and the Torah. Because the foundation of the Faith and Torah of Israel is that the Torah was revealed from heaven, and there is reward for those who obey it and punishment for those who transgress it. The entire People of Israel is required to obey the Torah, and whoever doesn't want to, ceases to be part of the congregation of Israel.

FOURTH -- Aside from the fact that they themselves do not obey the Torah they do everything they can to prevent anyone they get under their power from fulfilling the commands of the Torah, the claims to freedom of religion are lies. They fight with all of their strength to destroy the Faith of Israel.

Why Orthodox Jews are Opposed to the Zionist State

NETUREI KARTA, are you mad?

what trash

Please state what points they made that you disagree with, otherwise you are just trolling. There are four clear and well articulated points. Have at it.

On the other hand, this is another thread you offer nothing but cut and paste and ask others to state their disagreements.

Why do you think any of the "points" are either clear or well articulated?

You're nonsensical. You're not capable of defending what you cut and paste. How does anyone debate a cut and paste article?

 

[aris2chat]

I know there is much banter about the two state solution and it goes nowhere. Please, for this thread focus on these four reasons. Do you agree with them? Do you disagree? Are there parts that seem correct? We might actually find some common ground.

The People of Israel oppose the so-called "State of Israel" for four reasons:

FIRST -- The so-called "State of Israel" is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence and foundation of the People of Israel, as is explained above. The only time that the People of Israel were permitted to have a state was two thousand years ago when the glory of the creator was upon us, and likewise in the future when the glory of the creator will once more be revealed, and the whole world will serve Him, then He Himself (without any human effort or force of arms) will grant us a kingdom founded on Divine Service. However, a worldly state, like those possessed by other peoples, is contradictory to the true essence of the People of Israel. Whoever calls this the salvation of Israel shows that he denies the essence of the People of Israel, and substitutes another nature, a worldly materialistic nature, and therefore sets before them, a worldly materialistic "salvation," and the means of achieving this "salvation" is also worldly and materialistic i.e. to organize a land and army. However, the true salvation of the People of Israel is to draw close to the Creator. This is not done by organization and force of arms. Rather it is done by occupation to Torah and good deeds.

SECOND -- Because of all of this and other reasons the Torah forbids us to end the exile and establish a state and army until the Holy One, blessed He, in His Glory and Essence will redeem us. This is forbidden even if the state is conducted according to the law of the Torah because arising from the exile itself is forbidden, and we are required to remain under the rule of the nations of the world, as is explained in the book VAYOEL MOSHE. If we transgress this injunction, He will bring upon us (may we be spared) terrible punishment.

THIRD -- Aside from arising from exile, all the deeds of the Zionists are diametrically opposed to the Faith and the Torah. Because the foundation of the Faith and Torah of Israel is that the Torah was revealed from heaven, and there is reward for those who obey it and punishment for those who transgress it. The entire People of Israel is required to obey the Torah, and whoever doesn't want to, ceases to be part of the congregation of Israel.

FOURTH -- Aside from the fact that they themselves do not obey the Torah they do everything they can to prevent anyone they get under their power from fulfilling the commands of the Torah, the claims to freedom of religion are lies. They fight with all of their strength to destroy the Faith of Israel.

Why Orthodox Jews are Opposed to the Zionist State

NETUREI KARTA, are you mad?

what trash

LMAO! Louie is so funny. How can we get him to post here more often?

NK are as jewish as smurfs

 

[Lipush]

I know there is much banter about the two state solution and it goes nowhere. Please, for this thread focus on these four reasons. Do you agree with them? Do you disagree? Are there parts that seem correct? We might actually find some common ground.

The People of Israel oppose the so-called "State of Israel" for four reasons:

FIRST -- The so-called "State of Israel" is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence and foundation of the People of Israel, as is explained above. The only time that the People of Israel were permitted to have a state was two thousand years ago when the glory of the creator was upon us, and likewise in the future when the glory of the creator will once more be revealed, and the whole world will serve Him, then He Himself (without any human effort or force of arms) will grant us a kingdom founded on Divine Service. However, a worldly state, like those possessed by other peoples, is contradictory to the true essence of the People of Israel. Whoever calls this the salvation of Israel shows that he denies the essence of the People of Israel, and substitutes another nature, a worldly materialistic nature, and therefore sets before them, a worldly materialistic "salvation," and the means of achieving this "salvation" is also worldly and materialistic i.e. to organize a land and army. However, the true salvation of the People of Israel is to draw close to the Creator. This is not done by organization and force of arms. Rather it is done by occupation to Torah and good deeds.

SECOND -- Because of all of this and other reasons the Torah forbids us to end the exile and establish a state and army until the Holy One, blessed He, in His Glory and Essence will redeem us. This is forbidden even if the state is conducted according to the law of the Torah because arising from the exile itself is forbidden, and we are required to remain under the rule of the nations of the world, as is explained in the book VAYOEL MOSHE. If we transgress this injunction, He will bring upon us (may we be spared) terrible punishment.

THIRD -- Aside from arising from exile, all the deeds of the Zionists are diametrically opposed to the Faith and the Torah. Because the foundation of the Faith and Torah of Israel is that the Torah was revealed from heaven, and there is reward for those who obey it and punishment for those who transgress it. The entire People of Israel is required to obey the Torah, and whoever doesn't want to, ceases to be part of the congregation of Israel.

FOURTH -- Aside from the fact that they themselves do not obey the Torah they do everything they can to prevent anyone they get under their power from fulfilling the commands of the Torah, the claims to freedom of religion are lies. They fight with all of their strength to destroy the Faith of Israel.

Why Orthodox Jews are Opposed to the Zionist State

Wow. So much nonsense in one post.

First, let me break a myth. Orthodox Jews in general don't oppose the state of Israel. In a recent, CREDIBLE poll, it was stated that nearly 70% of orthodox Jews support the state of Israel, pay its taxes, recieve its rights. Those who don't are 3 main communities, 'The Eida Hareidit', 'Neturei Karta' and 'Satmar'.

Neturei Karta and Eida Hareidit oppose the state of Israel for one basic reason- It is not ruled solely by the Halacha. Israel has basic laws and democratic values which are founded by secular Jews. And more importantly, they believe the time of such a state is only when the messiah comes.

Now, the Irony of this is, that very well tomorrow, a bearded man can come of the community, saying that he's the Messiah, they may very well believe him like Chabad believe Rabbi Mlubavitz, and if he says we should kick out all the Arabs and have a state, they will be the first ones to open the war.

Gettit? Or do you want me to draw it for you?!

 

[Lipush]

I know there is much banter about the two state solution and it goes nowhere. Please, for this thread focus on these four reasons. Do you agree with them? Do you disagree? Are there parts that seem correct? We might actually find some common ground.

The People of Israel oppose the so-called "State of Israel" for four reasons:

FIRST -- The so-called "State of Israel" is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence and foundation of the People of Israel, as is explained above. The only time that the People of Israel were permitted to have a state was two thousand years ago when the glory of the creator was upon us, and likewise in the future when the glory of the creator will once more be revealed, and the whole world will serve Him, then He Himself (without any human effort or force of arms) will grant us a kingdom founded on Divine Service. However, a worldly state, like those possessed by other peoples, is contradictory to the true essence of the People of Israel. Whoever calls this the salvation of Israel shows that he denies the essence of the People of Israel, and substitutes another nature, a worldly materialistic nature, and therefore sets before them, a worldly materialistic "salvation," and the means of achieving this "salvation" is also worldly and materialistic i.e. to organize a land and army. However, the true salvation of the People of Israel is to draw close to the Creator. This is not done by organization and force of arms. Rather it is done by occupation to Torah and good deeds.

SECOND -- Because of all of this and other reasons the Torah forbids us to end the exile and establish a state and army until the Holy One, blessed He, in His Glory and Essence will redeem us. This is forbidden even if the state is conducted according to the law of the Torah because arising from the exile itself is forbidden, and we are required to remain under the rule of the nations of the world, as is explained in the book VAYOEL MOSHE. If we transgress this injunction, He will bring upon us (may we be spared) terrible punishment.

THIRD -- Aside from arising from exile, all the deeds of the Zionists are diametrically opposed to the Faith and the Torah. Because the foundation of the Faith and Torah of Israel is that the Torah was revealed from heaven, and there is reward for those who obey it and punishment for those who transgress it. The entire People of Israel is required to obey the Torah, and whoever doesn't want to, ceases to be part of the congregation of Israel.

FOURTH -- Aside from the fact that they themselves do not obey the Torah they do everything they can to prevent anyone they get under their power from fulfilling the commands of the Torah, the claims to freedom of religion are lies. They fight with all of their strength to destroy the Faith of Israel.

Why Orthodox Jews are Opposed to the Zionist State

NETUREI KARTA, are you mad?

what trash

Please state what points they made that you disagree with, otherwise you are just trolling. There are four clear and well articulated points. Have at it.

There is a friend I play chess with, and I tell him- "You had only one statistic error in this game- you decided to play it against me".

In otherwords, you should know enough about the conflicts of the Jewish communities before you start opening threads about things you really don't know. There is really nothing special or wise about opening thread about copy-paste articles. Everyone can do that.

 

[louie888]

OK, one page in and not one reply was on topic. Go figure as all the replies have come from degenerate atheists who pretend to be Jews and know nothing of the Torah or what it teaches. These degenerates show their antisemitism openly as all they have done is attempt to slander actual Jews who have remained true to the teachings of the Torah.

Your antisemitism is disgusting. If any of you wish to actually respond to this topic, please read the OP again and have at it. The points are clearly articulated. They are backed by our sages and rabbis throughout history.

Read. Think. Learn.

 

[Roudy]

Wow, another terrorist lover posting NK garbage. How original!

 

[aris2chat]

OK, one page in and not one reply was on topic. Go figure as all the replies have come from degenerate atheists who pretend to be Jews and know nothing of the Torah or what it teaches. These degenerates show their antisemitism openly as all they have done is attempt to slander actual Jews who have remained true to the teachings of the Torah.

Your antisemitism is disgusting. If any of you wish to actually respond to this topic, please read the OP again and have at it. The points are clearly articulated. They are backed by our sages and rabbis throughout history.

Read. Think. Learn.

Like wanting to debate "smurfs are real" and expecting a real reply

When you leave fantasy land and come up with something worth discussing.....

maybe you will get an interesting discussion

 

[Challenger]

OK, one page in and not one reply was on topic. Go figure as all the replies have come from degenerate atheists who pretend to be Jews and know nothing of the Torah or what it teaches. These degenerates show their antisemitism openly as all they have done is attempt to slander actual Jews who have remained true to the teachings of the Torah.

Your antisemitism is disgusting. If any of you wish to actually respond to this topic, please read the OP again and have at it. The points are clearly articulated. They are backed by our sages and rabbis throughout history.

Read. Think. Learn.

It may surprise some to learn that the views stated in the OP were the mainstream views amongst Jewish people and Zionism and Zionists were the lunatic fringe group, until the late 19th- early 20th century. Of course modern secular Zionist Israelis don't like this fact to be widely known, hence all the mockery and denial.

 

[Roudy]

OK, one page in and not one reply was on topic. Go figure as all the replies have come from degenerate atheists who pretend to be Jews and know nothing of the Torah or what it teaches. These degenerates show their antisemitism openly as all they have done is attempt to slander actual Jews who have remained true to the teachings of the Torah.

Your antisemitism is disgusting. If any of you wish to actually respond to this topic, please read the OP again and have at it. The points are clearly articulated. They are backed by our sages and rabbis throughout history.

Read. Think. Learn.

It may surprise some to learn that the views stated in the OP were the mainstream views amongst Jewish people and Zionism and Zionists were the lunatic fringe group, until the late 19th- early 20th century. Of course modern secular Zionist Israelis don't like this fact to be widely known, hence all the mockery and denial.

It may surprise you that you're totally wrong. Jews have been saying "next year in Jerusalem" every Passover for the last 2000 years, and now they are there.

 

[Hollie]

OK, one page in and not one reply was on topic. Go figure as all the replies have come from degenerate atheists who pretend to be Jews and know nothing of the Torah or what it teaches. These degenerates show their antisemitism openly as all they have done is attempt to slander actual Jews who have remained true to the teachings of the Torah.

Your antisemitism is disgusting. If any of you wish to actually respond to this topic, please read the OP again and have at it. The points are clearly articulated. They are backed by our sages and rabbis throughout history.

Read. Think. Learn.

It may surprise some to learn that the views stated in the OP were the mainstream views amongst Jewish people and Zionism and Zionists were the lunatic fringe group, until the late 19th- early 20th century. Of course modern secular Zionist Israelis don't like this fact to be widely known, hence all the mockery and denial.

There are many reasons why people point and laugh at your pompous muttering.

 

[louie888]

Folks? You are still doing it. Look at the four well articulated, salient points put forth in the OP and please explain what is not correct. If our rabbis and sages are so wrong, let lone as crazy as y'all pretend, then this should be an easy assignment.

Here they are again for you:

The People of Israel oppose the so-called "State of Israel" for four reasons:

FIRST -- The so-called "State of Israel" is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence and foundation of the People of Israel, as is explained above. The only time that the People of Israel were permitted to have a state was two thousand years ago when the glory of the creator was upon us, and likewise in the future when the glory of the creator will once more be revealed, and the whole world will serve Him, then He Himself (without any human effort or force of arms) will grant us a kingdom founded on Divine Service. However, a worldly state, like those possessed by other peoples, is contradictory to the true essence of the People of Israel. Whoever calls this the salvation of Israel shows that he denies the essence of the People of Israel, and substitutes another nature, a worldly materialistic nature, and therefore sets before them, a worldly materialistic "salvation," and the means of achieving this "salvation" is also worldly and materialistic i.e. to organize a land and army. However, the true salvation of the People of Israel is to draw close to the Creator. This is not done by organization and force of arms. Rather it is done by occupation to Torah and good deeds.

SECOND -- Because of all of this and other reasons the Torah forbids us to end the exile and establish a state and army until the Holy One, blessed He, in His Glory and Essence will redeem us. This is forbidden even if the state is conducted according to the law of the Torah because arising from the exile itself is forbidden, and we are required to remain under the rule of the nations of the world, as is explained in the book VAYOEL MOSHE. If we transgress this injunction, He will bring upon us (may we be spared) terrible punishment.

THIRD -- Aside from arising from exile, all the deeds of the Zionists are diametrically opposed to the Faith and the Torah. Because the foundation of the Faith and Torah of Israel is that the Torah was revealed from heaven, and there is reward for those who obey it and punishment for those who transgress it. The entire People of Israel is required to obey the Torah, and whoever doesn't want to, ceases to be part of the congregation of Israel.

FOURTH -- Aside from the fact that they themselves do not obey the Torah they do everything they can to prevent anyone they get under their power from fulfilling the commands of the Torah, the claims to freedom of religion are lies. They fight with all of their strength to destroy the Faith of Israel.

Why Orthodox Jews are Opposed to the Zionist State

 

[montelatici]

"Although Jewish, Serfaty was also an anti-Zionist Jew who recognised the State of Israel but who demanded the abolition of the so-called "Law of Return" and supported the creation of a Palestinian State. By 1967 heno longer accepted Israeli nationalism and was outraged by the treatmentof the Palestinians and supported their struggle. He remarked in his book Prison Writings, "Zionism is above all a racist ideology. It is the Jewish reversal of Hitlerism... It proclaims the state of Israel 'Jewish above everything', just as Hitler proclaimed an Aryan Germany".

Abraham Serfaty: Political activist who fell foul of the French

 

[Hollie]

Folks? You are still doing it. Look at the four well articulated, salient points put forth in the OP and please explain what is not correct. If our rabbis and sages are so wrong, let lone as crazy as y'all pretend, then this should be an easy assignment.

Here they are again for you:

The People of Israel oppose the so-called "State of Israel" for four reasons:

FIRST -- The so-called "State of Israel" is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence and foundation of the People of Israel, as is explained above. The only time that the People of Israel were permitted to have a state was two thousand years ago when the glory of the creator was upon us, and likewise in the future when the glory of the creator will once more be revealed, and the whole world will serve Him, then He Himself (without any human effort or force of arms) will grant us a kingdom founded on Divine Service. However, a worldly state, like those possessed by other peoples, is contradictory to the true essence of the People of Israel. Whoever calls this the salvation of Israel shows that he denies the essence of the People of Israel, and substitutes another nature, a worldly materialistic nature, and therefore sets before them, a worldly materialistic "salvation," and the means of achieving this "salvation" is also worldly and materialistic i.e. to organize a land and army. However, the true salvation of the People of Israel is to draw close to the Creator. This is not done by organization and force of arms. Rather it is done by occupation to Torah and good deeds.

SECOND -- Because of all of this and other reasons the Torah forbids us to end the exile and establish a state and army until the Holy One, blessed He, in His Glory and Essence will redeem us. This is forbidden even if the state is conducted according to the law of the Torah because arising from the exile itself is forbidden, and we are required to remain under the rule of the nations of the world, as is explained in the book VAYOEL MOSHE. If we transgress this injunction, He will bring upon us (may we be spared) terrible punishment.

THIRD -- Aside from arising from exile, all the deeds of the Zionists are diametrically opposed to the Faith and the Torah. Because the foundation of the Faith and Torah of Israel is that the Torah was revealed from heaven, and there is reward for those who obey it and punishment for those who transgress it. The entire People of Israel is required to obey the Torah, and whoever doesn't want to, ceases to be part of the congregation of Israel.

FOURTH -- Aside from the fact that they themselves do not obey the Torah they do everything they can to prevent anyone they get under their power from fulfilling the commands of the Torah, the claims to freedom of religion are lies. They fight with all of their strength to destroy the Faith of Israel.

Why Orthodox Jews are Opposed to the Zionist State

I didn't read any "well articulated" points. Could you cut and paste them again?

 

[Indeependent]

I know there is much banter about the two state solution and it goes nowhere. Please, for this thread focus on these four reasons. Do you agree with them? Do you disagree? Are there parts that seem correct? We might actually find some common ground.

The People of Israel oppose the so-called "State of Israel" for four reasons:

FIRST -- The so-called "State of Israel" is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence and foundation of the People of Israel, as is explained above. The only time that the People of Israel were permitted to have a state was two thousand years ago when the glory of the creator was upon us, and likewise in the future when the glory of the creator will once more be revealed, and the whole world will serve Him, then He Himself (without any human effort or force of arms) will grant us a kingdom founded on Divine Service. However, a worldly state, like those possessed by other peoples, is contradictory to the true essence of the People of Israel. Whoever calls this the salvation of Israel shows that he denies the essence of the People of Israel, and substitutes another nature, a worldly materialistic nature, and therefore sets before them, a worldly materialistic "salvation," and the means of achieving this "salvation" is also worldly and materialistic i.e. to organize a land and army. However, the true salvation of the People of Israel is to draw close to the Creator. This is not done by organization and force of arms. Rather it is done by occupation to Torah and good deeds.

SECOND -- Because of all of this and other reasons the Torah forbids us to end the exile and establish a state and army until the Holy One, blessed He, in His Glory and Essence will redeem us. This is forbidden even if the state is conducted according to the law of the Torah because arising from the exile itself is forbidden, and we are required to remain under the rule of the nations of the world, as is explained in the book VAYOEL MOSHE. If we transgress this injunction, He will bring upon us (may we be spared) terrible punishment.

THIRD -- Aside from arising from exile, all the deeds of the Zionists are diametrically opposed to the Faith and the Torah. Because the foundation of the Faith and Torah of Israel is that the Torah was revealed from heaven, and there is reward for those who obey it and punishment for those who transgress it. The entire People of Israel is required to obey the Torah, and whoever doesn't want to, ceases to be part of the congregation of Israel.

FOURTH -- Aside from the fact that they themselves do not obey the Torah they do everything they can to prevent anyone they get under their power from fulfilling the commands of the Torah, the claims to freedom of religion are lies. They fight with all of their strength to destroy the Faith of Israel.

Why Orthodox Jews are Opposed to the Zionist State

Now I know why Netanyahu keeps winning.
What a loon you are!