The Path To Environmentalism

[PoliticalChic]

1. If the underlying premise is incorrect, what follows is an “error cascade.”

a. “Error cascade” is a term used by scientists confronting the Anthropogenic Global Warming theory. Essentially, it means that bad science institutionalized by public policy, which then triggers more errors, more bad policy, and so on.
Nickson, "Eco-Fascists."

2. The error, central, to progressive/liberal thinking is that it is possible to create utiopia…heaven….here and now.






3. The Soviet experiment was based on that view. Communist Revolution is based on the idea of transforming human nature. “The New Soviet man or New Soviet person (Russian: новый советский челове&#1082, as postulated by the ideologists of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, was an archetype of a person with certain qualities that were said to be emerging as dominant among all citizens of the Soviet Union, irrespective of the country's long-standing cultural, ethnic, and linguistic diversity, creating a single Soviet people, Soviet nation.”
New Soviet man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

a. To do so required altering human nature. Leon Trotsky wrote in his Literature and Revolution: "The human species, the sluggish Homo sapiens, will once again enter the stage of radical reconstruction and become in his own hands the object of the most complex methods of artificial selection and psychophysical training... Man will make it his goal...to create a higher sociobiological type, a superman, if you will." Ibid.

b. Rather than ‘should this be done,’ how about ‘can this be done?’

c. “Culture is a stubborn opponent. The Soviet Union attempted to create the New Soviet Man with gulags, psychiatric hospitals, and firing squads for seventy years and succeeded only in producing a more corrupt culture.”
Bork, “Slouching Toward Gomorrah,” p. 198





4. Well, then….who still, after millions of human sacrificed, still endorses this view?

a. Today’s Progressives have the same plan: human nature is plastic; politics is a means of perfecting man! In 1969, Hillary Rodham gave the student commencement address at Wellesley in which she said that “ for too long our leaders have used politics as the art of making what appears to be impossible, possible….We’re not interested in social reconstruction; it’s human reconstruction.” http://www.wellesley.edu/PublicAffairs/Commencement/1969/053169hillary.html





5. Early on, the totalitarians branched into 'environmentalism.'
If one had to select a moment in time when progressivism lurched toward the darkside, one might select its embrace of eugenics, the racist pseudoscience that provided Adolf Hitler as a dance partner. They were able to pass legislation to correct ‘bad breeding’ in states from New York to California; forced sterilization.

6. “Creating the perfect human by identifying ideal characteristics and breeding for them embraced Lysenko’s and Haeckel’s theories. The discovery of Hitler’s oven killed the idea once and for all….Likewise, attempting to force the perfect balance on an “ecosystem” creates biological disasters on a scale only dreamed of even by the worst, first Rockefeller.
If the underlying premise is incorrect, what follows is an “error cascade.”
Nickson, “Eco-Fascists,” p. 99.






7. The Left, child-like in beliefs that motivate every totalitarian regime, has decided that human beings, seeming to resist said changes, are the enemy.
“Current lifestyles and consumption patterns of the affluent middle class - involving high meat intake, the use of fossil fuels, electrical appliances, home and work-place air-conditioning, and suburban housing - are not sustainable.”
Maurice Strong, opening speech at the 1992 UN Rio Earth Summit

a.” Maurice Strong is an admitted socialist. His sister was a Marxist. He thinks you and yours have eaten too much, used too much and now must pay. Of course like every elite socialist, that just means you, not him, or his fellow elitist.” Maurice Strong- Man Behind Agenda 21 ? Part 2 « Soldier For Liberty


It is a mistake, an “error cascade” to believe that there is any daylight separating communism, socialism, totalitarianism, or environmentalism.

 

[Old Rocks]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-QAhuL-tPs]John Birch Society Song.flv - YouTube[/ame]

 

[skookerasbil]

Environmentalism exists only because a group of people figured about about 40 years ago that there were people out there ready to be suckered on a new concept.........the Al Gores of the world, who now vacation 20 weeks/years on some tropical island an fly home in their helicopter to their 5,000 sqare foot home. We had to "save the planet"..........fucking brilliant.

These people are fucking brilliant and know there are suckers like Rolling Thunder out there who think all of this stuff is about the "environment". Many have the inability to see the forest through the trees..............and the profiteers of the world capitalize. Its always been that way. Anybody familiar with New York city knows that you cant find a funeral home in an Irish or Italian neighborhood that doesnt have one or two bars ( at least) right across the street. Same concept exactly. People who champion somebody like Al Gore...............suckers.

 

[Oddball]

Environmentalist whackos are nowadays pretty much little more than a bunch of Luddites, misanthropes and displaced communists.

The real environmentalists are the owners of large tracts of land, like farmers, ranchers and timber producers...They have a real stake in keeping their respective environments clean.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Environmentalist whackos are nowadays pretty much little more than a bunch of Luddites, misanthropes and displaced communists.

The real environmentalists are the owners of large tracts of land, like farmers, ranchers and timber producers...They have a real stake in keeping their respective environments clean.

I sure wish you still had 'reps' so I could rep this post!



Edit: my error: thought you had given same up. Rep sent.

 

[PoliticalChic]

John Birch Society Song.flv - YouTube

Gee, Rocks , I was hoping you'd like to debate the subject....

...but, when you've nothing but dogma and ideology., you've got nothing I guess.


I'll give you another chance tomorrow.

 

[Mr. H.]

Just as dangerous is the Liberal media's endorsement.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Environmentalism exists only because a group of people figured about about 40 years ago that there were people out there ready to be suckered on a new concept.........the Al Gores of the world, who now vacation 20 weeks/years on some tropical island an fly home in their helicopter to their 5,000 sqare foot home. We had to "save the planet"..........fucking brilliant.

These people are fucking brilliant and know there are suckers like Rolling Thunder out there who think all of this stuff is about the "environment". Many have the inability to see the forest through the trees..............and the profiteers of the world capitalize. Its always been that way. Anybody familiar with New York city knows that you cant find a funeral home in an Irish or Italian neighborhood that doesnt have one or two bars ( at least) right across the street. Same concept exactly. People who champion somebody like Al Gore...............suckers.

There are lots who are true believers....like Rocks.

Religious fanatics all.

 

[mamooth]

Could you all get a room, please?

I would be referring to the righty circle jerk on display here. Nobody wants to see that in public.

 

[Oddball]

Blow it out your ass, watermelon.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Could you all get a room, please?

I would be referring to the righty circle jerk on display here. Nobody wants to see that in public.

Pithy!
And, no doubt, you've put your highest level of analysis into same.

As you would have put forward the very best rebuttal you could come up with, your post serves, inadvertently, as a verification of the OP.



Uh oh...I’d better be careful or you might send your flying monkeys after me!

 

[Bfgrn]

Edmund Burke said: "One that confounds good and evil is an enemy to good"

The environmental movement is truly a grassroots movement by citizens centered on ecology, health, and human rights. It is not corporations or governments.

The US environmental movement emerged in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century, with two key strands: preservationist such as John Muir wanted land and nature set aside for its own sake, while conservationists such as Gifford Pinchot wanted to manage natural resources for human use. Among the early protectionists that stood out as leaders in the movement were Henry David Thoreau, John Muir and George Perkins Marsh. Thoreau was concerned about the wildlife in Massachusetts; he wrote Walden; or, Life in the Woods as he studied the wildlife from a cabin. John Muir founded the Sierra Club, one of the largest conservation organizations in the United States. Marsh was influential with regards to the need for resource conservation. Muir was instrumental in the creation of Yosemite national park in 1890. Muir was also personally involved in the creation of Sequoia, Mount Rainier, Petrified Forest and Grand Canyon national parks. Muir deservedly is often called the "Father of Our National Park System."

Henry David Thoreau was an American author, poet, philosopher, abolitionist, naturalist, tax resister, development critic, surveyor, historian, and leading transcendentalist. He is best known for his book Walden, a reflection upon simple living in natural surroundings, and his essay Civil Disobedience, an argument for individual resistance to civil government in moral opposition to an unjust state.

Transcendentalists believed that society and its institutions—particularly organized religion and political parties—ultimately corrupted the purity of the individual. They had faith that people are at their best when truly "self-reliant" and independent. It is only from such real individuals that true community could be formed.

The major figures in the movement were Ralph Waldo Emerson, Henry David Thoreau, John Muir. wiki

PC is a perfect example of a right wing statist who would wield government to protect corporations and polluters.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Edmund Burke said: "One that confounds good and evil is an enemy to good"

The environmental movement is truly a grassroots movement by citizens centered on ecology, health, and human rights. It is not corporations or governments.

The US environmental movement emerged in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century, with two key strands: preservationist such as John Muir wanted land and nature set aside for its own sake, while conservationists such as Gifford Pinchot wanted to manage natural resources for human use. Among the early protectionists that stood out as leaders in the movement were Henry David Thoreau, John Muir and George Perkins Marsh. Thoreau was concerned about the wildlife in Massachusetts; he wrote Walden; or, Life in the Woods as he studied the wildlife from a cabin. John Muir founded the Sierra Club, one of the largest conservation organizations in the United States. Marsh was influential with regards to the need for resource conservation. Muir was instrumental in the creation of Yosemite national park in 1890. Muir was also personally involved in the creation of Sequoia, Mount Rainier, Petrified Forest and Grand Canyon national parks. Muir deservedly is often called the "Father of Our National Park System."

Henry David Thoreau was an American author, poet, philosopher, abolitionist, naturalist, tax resister, development critic, surveyor, historian, and leading transcendentalist. He is best known for his book Walden, a reflection upon simple living in natural surroundings, and his essay Civil Disobedience, an argument for individual resistance to civil government in moral opposition to an unjust state.

Transcendentalists believed that society and its institutions—particularly organized religion and political parties—ultimately corrupted the purity of the individual. They had faith that people are at their best when truly "self-reliant" and independent. It is only from such real individuals that true community could be formed.

The major figures in the movement were Ralph Waldo Emerson, Henry David Thoreau, John Muir. wiki

PC is a perfect example of a right wing statist who would wield government to protect corporations and polluters.

So good to see you back, BoringFriendlessGuy.... After all, what good would this debate be without the human piñata!


1. Statist?

...wield government?


I see your motto is “in the land of the soft brain, the bonehead is king.”




2. "The environmental movement is truly a grassroots movement by citizens centered on ecology, health, and human rights. It is not corporations or governments."

Each time you post you are way off target.

But, this one may be the one that finally gets you committed to the 'nervous hospital.'

a. ... the Pew, Rockefeller, Heinz, Hewlett, and Moore foundations, along with the incubator, the myseriousTides Foundation, the Nature Conservancy, and scores of others (there are 26,450 environmental advocacy organizations operating in the US) , spend more than $9 billion a year coordinating efforts to turn people off their lands and curtail the lives of city and suburban dwellers.
Nickson, “Eco-Fascists,” p. 4.

b. That’s $9 billion selling fear. For purposes of comparison, Microsoft spent $400 million introducing the biggest rollout in the last 10 years, Windows 7. The environmental movement spends that each month!


This sound 'grass roots' to you:

c. “Sustainable” is the catchword for every activist, bureaucrat, NGO…but try to get a definition. For a hint, the following are considered ‘unsustainable’ by the true believers: single family homes; paved roads; ski runs; golf courses; dams; fences; pastures; plowing of lands; sewers; drain systems; pipelines; fertilizer; wall and floor tile. These and many other elements of life today are on the list for eventual elimination.
Nickson, Op. Cit., p.9.


So, once again, you've proven to be nuttier than the Deluxe Pecan Log at Stuckey’s.

 

[Oddball]

No, the environmentalist whacko movement a gathering place for hippies, neo-Luddites, misanthropes, Malthusian declinists, displaced communists and other career snivelers.

The "grassroots" has given way to huge corporate/lobbying interests like Sierra Club, WWF, NWF, Nature Conservancy and other big money operations....But those huge corporate/lobbying groups are just fine to the sanctimonious leftbat environmentalist whacko.

 

[Bfgrn]

Edmund Burke said: "One that confounds good and evil is an enemy to good"

The environmental movement is truly a grassroots movement by citizens centered on ecology, health, and human rights. It is not corporations or governments.

The US environmental movement emerged in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century, with two key strands: preservationist such as John Muir wanted land and nature set aside for its own sake, while conservationists such as Gifford Pinchot wanted to manage natural resources for human use. Among the early protectionists that stood out as leaders in the movement were Henry David Thoreau, John Muir and George Perkins Marsh. Thoreau was concerned about the wildlife in Massachusetts; he wrote Walden; or, Life in the Woods as he studied the wildlife from a cabin. John Muir founded the Sierra Club, one of the largest conservation organizations in the United States. Marsh was influential with regards to the need for resource conservation. Muir was instrumental in the creation of Yosemite national park in 1890. Muir was also personally involved in the creation of Sequoia, Mount Rainier, Petrified Forest and Grand Canyon national parks. Muir deservedly is often called the "Father of Our National Park System."

Henry David Thoreau was an American author, poet, philosopher, abolitionist, naturalist, tax resister, development critic, surveyor, historian, and leading transcendentalist. He is best known for his book Walden, a reflection upon simple living in natural surroundings, and his essay Civil Disobedience, an argument for individual resistance to civil government in moral opposition to an unjust state.

Transcendentalists believed that society and its institutions—particularly organized religion and political parties—ultimately corrupted the purity of the individual. They had faith that people are at their best when truly "self-reliant" and independent. It is only from such real individuals that true community could be formed.

The major figures in the movement were Ralph Waldo Emerson, Henry David Thoreau, John Muir. wiki

PC is a perfect example of a right wing statist who would wield government to protect corporations and polluters.

So good to see you back, BoringFriendlessGuy.... After all, what good would this debate be without the human piñata!


1. Statist?

...wield government?


I see your motto is “in the land of the soft brain, the bonehead is king.”




2. "The environmental movement is truly a grassroots movement by citizens centered on ecology, health, and human rights. It is not corporations or governments."

Each time you post you are way off target.

But, this one may be the one that finally gets you committed to the 'nervous hospital.'

a. ... the Pew, Rockefeller, Heinz, Hewlett, and Moore foundations, along with the incubator, the myseriousTides Foundation, the Nature Conservancy, and scores of others (there are 26,450 environmental advocacy organizations operating in the US) , spend more than $9 billion a year coordinating efforts to turn people off their lands and curtail the lives of city and suburban dwellers.
Nickson, “Eco-Fascists,” p. 4.

b. That’s $9 billion selling fear. For purposes of comparison, Microsoft spent $400 million introducing the biggest rollout in the last 10 years, Windows 7. The environmental movement spends that each month!


This sound 'grass roots' to you:

c. “Sustainable” is the catchword for every activist, bureaucrat, NGO…but try to get a definition. For a hint, the following are considered ‘unsustainable’ by the true believers: single family homes; paved roads; ski runs; golf courses; dams; fences; pastures; plowing of lands; sewers; drain systems; pipelines; fertilizer; wall and floor tile. These and many other elements of life today are on the list for eventual elimination.
Nickson, Op. Cit., p.9.


So, once again, you've proven to be nuttier than the Deluxe Pecan Log at Stuckey’s.

Why is it that you can never talk like a human being PC? It is always a copy & paste glut of radical far right wing authors painting anyone on the left as radical.

What are your views on protecting our environment? Please articulate what PC believes?

 

[SSDD]

Could you all get a room, please?

I would be referring to the righty circle jerk on display here. Nobody wants to see that in public.

You are one to talk...one of the biggest cheerleaders on the board, who, incidentally, is completely unable to actually discuss the topic. You have picked your side based entirely on your political leanings as you have made it abundantly clear that you haven't made your choice based on any scientific knowledge.

 

[mamooth]

Then why does your side always end up running, leaving a trail of piddle behind them? Why is it our side can argue issues, while your side always tosses out a bizarre conspiracy theory to deflect from issues?

There's no shame in being fooled. Just admit it and move on, instead of digging in deeper. You have to know on some level how you've been played as a UsefulIdiot, and the sooner you admit it the better. Pretty much the whole planet sees it. You've lost your last few remaining allies in Russia and Australia after their last baking summers, leaving only a dwindling handful of right-wing fringe cultists in the USA and UK.

 

[Oddball]

There's no shame in being fooled. Just admit it and move on, instead of digging in deeper. You have to know on some level how you've been played as a UsefulIdiot, and the sooner you admit it the better. Pretty much the whole planet sees it. You've lost your last few remaining allies in Russia and Australia after their last baking summers, leaving only a dwindling handful of right-wing fringe cultists in the USA and UK.

Wow, good thing you don't project.....Much...

 

[Mr. H.]

The selling of fear. A fear massaged and promulgated by a liberal media machine.

Entreneched in the psyche of a mindless public.

 

[Bfgrn]

Then why does your side always end up running, leaving a trail of piddle behind them? Why is it our side can argue issues, while your side always tosses out a bizarre conspiracy theory to deflect from issues?

There's no shame in being fooled. Just admit it and move on, instead of digging in deeper. You have to know on some level how you've been played as a UsefulIdiot, and the sooner you admit it the better. Pretty much the whole planet sees it. You've lost your last few remaining allies in Russia and Australia after their last baking summers, leaving only a dwindling handful of right-wing fringe cultists in the USA and UK.

Albert Camus said: "It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners"

These right wing morons always defend the executioners. ALWAYS, without fail. Think about that. Whenever there is any discussion about environment, they always side with the polluters. They are fear filled pieces of human looking flesh that are so overwhelmed and controlled by that fear it prevents them from confronting any possibilities, science or truths that would cause them angst.

If you can be well without health, you may be happy without virtue.
Edmund Burke