The only proper purpose of a government

[BlindBoo]

You mean when slavery was the norm, and in fact actually slaves lived better than the working poor, those who even had jobs that is?


You mean when Americans were as likely to die from treatment as they were from the illness that sent them to the doctor in the first place.

You mean when the average life span of an American male was 58 years old?

You mean when children as young as 12 were working 60 hour work weeks?

You mean when companies owned entire towns and employees had to purchase everything , including paying their rent , from the very company they worked for, and in fact they were paid in script rather than actual cash and consequently employees went further in debt each year rather than gained anything, but hey that was better than the alternative which was not to have any job at all?

You mean back when 2 out of 5 children died during birth, as did 1 out of 5 mothers?

Yup, those were the good old days.

LOL you fool

We mean the part where America went from literally nothing to being one of the globe's preeminent economic superpowers in the shortest time span ever.

And nobody said America was perfect along the way, either.

LOL there is exactly one reason we became a super power, economically or otherwise.

WWII. Go ahead and do the research, prior to WWII we were just another small country.

Guess what happened when we entered WWII? The government started telling private industry what they would produce, when they would produce it, how much of it they would produce, and how much of it they would sell and at what price.

and that my friend is how we became an economic super power.

My God you champion the time when the government was most in control as an example of what you want to return to? You fucking socialist.

I think it was after WWII when our natural resources helped rebuild the world destroyed by war.

 

[Oddball]

You mean after 1945?

I mean particularly post Civil War and through the industrial revolution.

oh the disease, the filth, the poverty, child labor, World War I, the financial panics of 1873 and 1890, the exploitation of workers, ... you mean THOSE good ol' days. Oh, well, why didn't you say so ....

Disease, filth and child poverty exist today despite massive gumbint meddling and trillions of dollars thrown at the problem....And there have been plenty of financial panics, including the Great Depression, since the beginning of the progressive era.

But I guess whatever you need to tell yourself to be convinced that Big Daddy Big Gumbint is God on Earth.

 

[Koios]

oh the disease, the filth, the poverty, child labor, World War I, the financial panics of 1873 and 1890, the exploitation of workers, ... you mean THOSE good ol' days. Oh, well, why didn't you say so ....

None of those things were caused by economic freedom. Most social problems that exist prior to the industrial revolution were cured by capitalism. The Civil War and WW I are obviously the responsibility of government, not private industry.

I can't imagine anything more stupid than assigning blame for diseases to capitalism.

You love you some being wrong don't you?

In the case of the Civil War, the motivating factor was private industry, AKA the southern capitalist cotton growers didn't want to give up their free labor.

Argue with that LOL

The labor was not free, and indeed, albeit as determined by the slave owners, a living was provided, which not all wages in the day did. Not to mention buying slaves was costly as well.

And in fact, slavery would have died out, naturally, had Whitney not invented the cotton gin and raised production to a level that restored economic viability of owning slaves.

 

[JustTheFacts]

We mean the part where America went from literally nothing to being one of the globe's preeminent economic superpowers in the shortest time span ever.

And nobody said America was perfect along the way, either.

LOL there is exactly one reason we became a super power, economically or otherwise.

WWII. Go ahead and do the research, prior to WWII we were just another small country.

Guess what happened when we entered WWII? The government started telling private industry what they would produce, when they would produce it, how much of it they would produce, and how much of it they would sell and at what price.

and that my friend is how we became an economic super power.

My God you champion the time when the government was most in control as an example of what you want to return to? You fucking socialist.

I think it was after WWII when our natural resources helped rebuild the world destroyed by war.

no, it was DURING WWII when the USG was buying tanks, planes, guns, bombs, and other war materials from every swinging dick that could find a machine to build one.

Our economy BOOMED during WWII. Actually the boom started a little prior to our actual participation as we had started selling to the allies in 1939, but it really skyrocketed when we entered the war.

 

[nodoginnafight]

oh the disease, the filth, the poverty, child labor, World War I, the financial panics of 1873 and 1890, the exploitation of workers, ... you mean THOSE good ol' days. Oh, well, why didn't you say so ....

None of those things were caused by economic freedom. Most social problems that exist prior to the industrial revolution were cured by capitalism. The Civil War and WW I are obviously the responsibility of government, not private industry.

I can't imagine anything more stupid than assigning blame for diseases to capitalism.

You love you some being wrong don't you?

In the case of the Civil War, the motivating factor was private industry, AKA the southern capitalist cotton growers didn't want to give up their free labor.

Argue with that LOL

Not to mention the unrestrained capitalism that resulted in financial crisis after financial crisis; "company stores" and "company towns" that perpetuated poverty, disease, and workplace deaths. Adhereing to a proper building code for a dam might have prevented the Johnstown flood ... the list goes on and on.

You guys want to harken back to those days????

Good luck - you aren't going to take the rest of us with you.

 

[JustTheFacts]

None of those things were caused by economic freedom. Most social problems that exist prior to the industrial revolution were cured by capitalism. The Civil War and WW I are obviously the responsibility of government, not private industry.

I can't imagine anything more stupid than assigning blame for diseases to capitalism.

You love you some being wrong don't you?

In the case of the Civil War, the motivating factor was private industry, AKA the southern capitalist cotton growers didn't want to give up their free labor.

Argue with that LOL

The labor was not free, and indeed, albeit as determined by the slave owners, a living was provided, which not all wages in the day did. Not to mention buying slaves was costly as well.

And in fact, slavery would have died out, naturally, had Whitney not invented the cotton gin and raised production to a level that restored economic viability of owning slaves.

I guess technically you're right, can we agree that the labor was at a greatly reduced price and the south didn't want to give that up?

 

[JustTheFacts]

I mean particularly post Civil War and through the industrial revolution.

oh the disease, the filth, the poverty, child labor, World War I, the financial panics of 1873 and 1890, the exploitation of workers, ... you mean THOSE good ol' days. Oh, well, why didn't you say so ....

Disease, filth and child poverty exist today despite massive gumbint meddling and trillions of dollars thrown at the problem....And there have been plenty of financial panics, including the Great Depression, since the beginning of the progressive era.

But I guess whatever you need to tell yourself to be convinced that Big Daddy Big Gumbint is God on Earth.

LOLWUT, you're the one who just called the period during WWII when governemnt was most powerful of all the "good old days"

Socialist fuck

 

[Koios]

We mean the part where America went from literally nothing to being one of the globe's preeminent economic superpowers in the shortest time span ever.

And nobody said America was perfect along the way, either.

LOL there is exactly one reason we became a super power, economically or otherwise.

WWII. Go ahead and do the research, prior to WWII we were just another small country.

Guess what happened when we entered WWII? The government started telling private industry what they would produce, when they would produce it, how much of it they would produce, and how much of it they would sell and at what price.

and that my friend is how we became an economic super power.

My God you champion the time when the government was most in control as an example of what you want to return to? You fucking socialist.

Um, no...Both Hitler and Hirohito feared dragging America into WWII because of its industrial might, brought about by its inventiveness and greatest economic freedom in the world during the Industrial Revolution, a time which America economically kicked just about every ass ind invented just about anything worth having.

But thanks for the refresher course in the progressive/socialist warmonger re-write of American economic history...I never tire of hearing those fairy tales.

Fear of it actually. They (Japan) caught us on our heals, but did not know it.

However, a giant New Deal boondoggle proved a godsend, for more than merely the 1000s of workers needed to build a giant damn in the middle of friggin' nowhere (Grand Coulee). But with Japan getting us in the war, suddenly the power to produce large quantities of aluminum became needed, and we might not have won the war had the white elephant not have already been sitting around waiting for it to be needed.

Life is full of irony.

 

[nodoginnafight]

I mean particularly post Civil War and through the industrial revolution.

oh the disease, the filth, the poverty, child labor, World War I, the financial panics of 1873 and 1890, the exploitation of workers, ... you mean THOSE good ol' days. Oh, well, why didn't you say so ....

Disease, filth and child poverty exist today despite massive gumbint meddling and trillions of dollars thrown at the problem....And there have been plenty of financial panics, including the Great Depression, since the beginning of the progressive era.

But I guess whatever you need to tell yourself to be convinced that Big Daddy Big Gumbint is God on Earth.

so since it happened during your "Libertarian Golden Years" as well as now, then I guess your cure-all isn't really a cure now is it?

btw - How many folks die of cholera these days?

 

[Oddball]

oh the disease, the filth, the poverty, child labor, World War I, the financial panics of 1873 and 1890, the exploitation of workers, ... you mean THOSE good ol' days. Oh, well, why didn't you say so ....

Disease, filth and child poverty exist today despite massive gumbint meddling and trillions of dollars thrown at the problem....And there have been plenty of financial panics, including the Great Depression, since the beginning of the progressive era.

But I guess whatever you need to tell yourself to be convinced that Big Daddy Big Gumbint is God on Earth.

LOLWUT, you're the one who just called the period during WWII when governemnt was most powerful of all the "good old days"

Socialist fuck

Um, no I didn't....I said after the Civil War and through the Industrial Revolution.

Guess you're too busy being a fuckwit troll to read for comprehension.

 

[Koios]

You love you some being wrong don't you?

In the case of the Civil War, the motivating factor was private industry, AKA the southern capitalist cotton growers didn't want to give up their free labor.

Argue with that LOL

The labor was not free, and indeed, albeit as determined by the slave owners, a living was provided, which not all wages in the day did. Not to mention buying slaves was costly as well.

And in fact, slavery would have died out, naturally, had Whitney not invented the cotton gin and raised production to a level that restored economic viability of owning slaves.

I guess technically you're right, can we agree that the labor was at a greatly reduced price and the south didn't want to give that up?

Not really greatly reduced price. Expensive by the standards of the day. But culturally, it separated the aristocrats from the commoners. Being a slave owner had huge social status, which Southerners were loathe to abandon. Later, share-cropping proved a far better way of exploiting labor.

 

[BlindBoo]

Fen Phen was a combination of drugs marketed by drug companies, so it required FDA approval. Thalidomide was approved overseas by European equivalents of the FDA.

Again, using the Fen Phen combination (off label) was not approved by the FDA.

Wrong. The FDA did approve the drug:

Fenfluramine/phentermine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fenfluramine as a single drug was first introduced in the 1970s, but was not popular because it only temporarily reduced weight.[1] A 1984 study found a weight loss of 7.5 kg on average in 24 weeks, as compared to 4.4 kg under placebo.[4] It sold modestly until the 1990s, when it was combined with phentermine and heavily marketed.[1] A similar drug, aminorex, had caused severe lung damage and "provided reason to worry that similar drugs ... could increase the risk of a rare but often fatal lung disease, pulmonary hypertension."[1] In 1994, Wyeth official Fred Wilson expressed concerns about fenfluramine's labeling containing only four cases of pulmonary hypertension when a total of 41 had been observed, but no action was taken until 1996.[1] In 1995, Wyeth introduced dexfenfluramine (the dextro isomer, marketed as Redux), which it hoped would cause fewer adverse effects. However, the medical officer of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), Leo Lutwak, insisted upon a black box warning of pulmonary hypertension risks. After Lutwak refused to approve the drug, the FDA management had someone else sign it and approved the drug with no black box warning for marketing in 1996.[1] European regulators required a major warning of pulmonary hypertension risks.[1]

Remember from above, the FDA approval was for single drug use. That means not in combination with another drug. So there was no FDA approval for the drug used in combination. Also the FDA said that the clinical trials did not cover longer use. The FDA approved the drug for a number of "weeks" of use. A 32-year-old woman who lost 70 pounds was found to have a leaky heart valve after taking Fen-Phen for over a year.

https://www.facworld.com/facworld.nsf/doc/7casphen-fen

 

[Oddball]

oh the disease, the filth, the poverty, child labor, World War I, the financial panics of 1873 and 1890, the exploitation of workers, ... you mean THOSE good ol' days. Oh, well, why didn't you say so ....

Disease, filth and child poverty exist today despite massive gumbint meddling and trillions of dollars thrown at the problem....And there have been plenty of financial panics, including the Great Depression, since the beginning of the progressive era.

But I guess whatever you need to tell yourself to be convinced that Big Daddy Big Gumbint is God on Earth.

so since it happened during your "Libertarian Golden Years" as well as now, then I guess your cure-all isn't really a cure now is it?

btw - How many folks die of cholera these days?

When did I say it was a cure-all?

You'll need to retake the seminar on building better straw men, because you really suck at it.

 

[bripat9643]

LOLWUT, you're the one who just called the period during WWII when governemnt was most powerful of all the "good old days"

Socialist fuck

No he didn't, dipstick.

 

[JustTheFacts]

We mean the part where America went from literally nothing to being one of the globe's preeminent economic superpowers in the shortest time span ever.

And nobody said America was perfect along the way, either.

LOL there is exactly one reason we became a super power, economically or otherwise.

WWII. Go ahead and do the research, prior to WWII we were just another small country.

Guess what happened when we entered WWII? The government started telling private industry what they would produce, when they would produce it, how much of it they would produce, and how much of it they would sell and at what price.

and that my friend is how we became an economic super power.

My God you champion the time when the government was most in control as an example of what you want to return to? You fucking socialist.

Um, no...Both Hitler and Hirohito feared dragging America into WWII because of its industrial might, brought about by its inventiveness and greatest economic freedom in the world during the Industrial Revolution, a time which America economically kicked just about every ass ind invented just about anything worth having.

But thanks for the refresher course in the progressive/socialist warmonger re-write of American economic history...I never tire of hearing those fairy tales.

Yeah Hirohito feared it so much, he okayed Pearl Harbor.

Are you really arguing that WWII is not what made our economy the greatest in the world? Historical economists the world over state it as a fact, not a theory.. LOL

In all seriousness, here's a pretty good article on the subject.

The American Economy during World War II | Economic History Services

Now obviously what worked in the short term during an emergency doesn't mean it would work long term as a strategy, but there is no denying that WWII was the catalyst to the US becoming a super power , politically, financially, and militarily.

 

[bripat9643]

Disease, filth and child poverty exist today despite massive gumbint meddling and trillions of dollars thrown at the problem....And there have been plenty of financial panics, including the Great Depression, since the beginning of the progressive era.

But I guess whatever you need to tell yourself to be convinced that Big Daddy Big Gumbint is God on Earth.

so since it happened during your "Libertarian Golden Years" as well as now, then I guess your cure-all isn't really a cure now is it?

btw - How many folks die of cholera these days?

When did I say it was a cure-all?

You'll need to retake the seminar on building better straw men, because you really suck at it.

In the liberal universe, if any social arrangement other than socialism doesn't instantly solve every conceivable problem, whether man made or natural, then it's a failure. Of course, socialism can solve no social problems, can lead to catastrophe after catastrophe, and it's still the answer to our prayers.

 

[Oddball]

LOL there is exactly one reason we became a super power, economically or otherwise.

WWII. Go ahead and do the research, prior to WWII we were just another small country.

Guess what happened when we entered WWII? The government started telling private industry what they would produce, when they would produce it, how much of it they would produce, and how much of it they would sell and at what price.

and that my friend is how we became an economic super power.

My God you champion the time when the government was most in control as an example of what you want to return to? You fucking socialist.

Um, no...Both Hitler and Hirohito feared dragging America into WWII because of its industrial might, brought about by its inventiveness and greatest economic freedom in the world during the Industrial Revolution, a time which America economically kicked just about every ass ind invented just about anything worth having.

But thanks for the refresher course in the progressive/socialist warmonger re-write of American economic history...I never tire of hearing those fairy tales.

Yeah Hirohito feared it so much, he okayed Pearl Harbor.

Are you really arguing that WWII is not what made our economy the greatest in the world? Historical economists the world over state it as a fact, not a theory.. LOL

In all seriousness, here's a pretty good article on the subject.

The American Economy during World War II | Economic History Services

Now obviously what worked in the short term during an emergency doesn't mean it would work long term as a strategy, but there is no denying that WWII was the catalyst to the US becoming a super power , politically, financially, and militarily.

It was the catalyst of America being about the only industrial society left on the planet that wasn't bombed back to pre-Industrial Revolution days, but that's about it.

We also had the industrial might to kick the living crap out of the Huns in WWI, but that doesn't fit so neatly into your template of economic historical ignorance.

 

[BlindBoo]

LOL there is exactly one reason we became a super power, economically or otherwise.

WWII. Go ahead and do the research, prior to WWII we were just another small country.

Guess what happened when we entered WWII? The government started telling private industry what they would produce, when they would produce it, how much of it they would produce, and how much of it they would sell and at what price.

and that my friend is how we became an economic super power.

My God you champion the time when the government was most in control as an example of what you want to return to? You fucking socialist.

I think it was after WWII when our natural resources helped rebuild the world destroyed by war.

no, it was DURING WWII when the USG was buying tanks, planes, guns, bombs, and other war materials from every swinging dick that could find a machine to build one.

Our economy BOOMED during WWII. Actually the boom started a little prior to our actual participation as we had started selling to the allies in 1939, but it really skyrocketed when we entered the war.

Well we certainly put our people back to work then, my grandfather was one, but I think we became an economic powerhouse after the war.

 

[JustTheFacts]

I think it was after WWII when our natural resources helped rebuild the world destroyed by war.

no, it was DURING WWII when the USG was buying tanks, planes, guns, bombs, and other war materials from every swinging dick that could find a machine to build one.

Our economy BOOMED during WWII. Actually the boom started a little prior to our actual participation as we had started selling to the allies in 1939, but it really skyrocketed when we entered the war.

Well we certainly put our people back to work then, my grandfather was one, but I think we became an economic powerhouse after the war.

We just need a world war to get back on track

 

[Koios]

no, it was DURING WWII when the USG was buying tanks, planes, guns, bombs, and other war materials from every swinging dick that could find a machine to build one.

Our economy BOOMED during WWII. Actually the boom started a little prior to our actual participation as we had started selling to the allies in 1939, but it really skyrocketed when we entered the war.

Well we certainly put our people back to work then, my grandfather was one, but I think we became an economic powerhouse after the war.

We just need a world war to get back on track

The war left us in the shitter, economically. (about the same debt to GDP ratio we have today.) But Truman despite being pissed at Labor (the movement) gave into demands, plus increased the minimum wage by 80+% in 1950, along with other Fair Deal follow-ons to the lefty FDR New Deal, which did bring us out of it, despite remarkably high tax rates on upper incomes, which ran right on through the Eisenhower Admin ... aka the fucking Glory Days a decade after the war.