The OLDER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

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There are two (2) points of view that must be considered in their intent and purpose—

View #1 is a biblical view:


(Deu 7:6 KJV) For thou art a holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

(Deu 7:7 KJV) The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

The Lord chose them for a purpose and that purpose was to exemplify His teaching and from this example others would understand by this example and follow along this path bringing peace and tranquility to all.

(Deu 1:16 KJV) And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

(Deu 10:19 KJV) Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

(Deu 24:19 KJV) When thou cuttest down thine harvest in thy field, and hast forgot a sheaf in the field, thou shalt not go again to fetch it: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow: that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hands.

(Deu 24:20 KJV) When thou beatest thine olive tree, thou shalt not go over the boughs again: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow.

(Deu 24:21 KJV) When thou gatherest the grapes of thy vineyard, thou shalt not glean it afterward: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow.

****Then time passed on and the Lord returned to see what His children have done to further His cause----

(Ezek 36:17 KJV) Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their ..own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.

(Ezek 36:18 KJV) Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it.

(Ezek 36:22 KJV) Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

(Ezek 36:24 KJV) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

(Ezek 36:31 KJV) Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

(Ezek 36:32 KJV) Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

Clearly the Jews of that day did not follow His instructions and the Lord was appalled at what He saw. This time period may mark the time they were scattered because of the discretions he was witness to.

View #2 is an historical view:

July 22, 1946. Zionist terrorists blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem killing or injuring more than 200 persons.

October 1, 1946. The British Embassy in Rome was badly damaged by bomb explosions, for which Irgun claimed responsibility.

September 3, 1947. A postal bomb addressed to the British War Office exploded in the post office sorting room in London, injuring 2 persons. It was attributed to Irgun or Stern Gangs.

December ll, 1947. Six Arabs were killed and 30 wounded when bombs were thrown from Jewish trucks at Arab buses in Haifa; 12 Arabs were killed and others injured in an attack by armed Zionists on an Arab coastal village near Haifa.

December 13, 1947 -- February 10, 1948. Seven incidents of bomb-tossing at innocent Arab civilians in cafes and markets, killing 138 and wounding 271 others, During this period, there were 9 attacks on Arab buses. Zionists mined passenger trains on at least 4 occasions, killing 93 persons and wounding 161 others.

December 29, 1947. Two British constables and 11 Arabs were killed and 32 Arabs injured, at the Damascus Gate in Jerusalem when Irgun members threw a bomb from a taxi.

June 1947. Letters sent to British Cabinet Ministers were found to contain bombs.

December ll, 1947. Six Arabs were killed and 30 wounded when bombs were thrown from Jewish trucks at Arab buses in Haifa ; 12 Arabs were killed and others injured in an attack by armed Zionists on an Arab coastal village near Haifa.

December 29, 1947. Two British constables and 11 Arabs were killed and 32 Arabs injured, at the Damascus Gate in Jerusalem when Irgun members threw a bomb from a taxi.

January 5, 1948. The Arab-owned Semiramis Hotel in Jerusalem was blown up, killing 20 persons.

January 7, 1948. Seventeen Arabs were killed by a bomb at the Jaffa Gate in Jerusalem, 3 of them while trying to escape. Further casualties, including the murder of a British officer near Hebron, were reported from different parts of the country.

May 3, 1948. A book bomb addressed to a British Army officer, who had been stationed in Palestine exploded, killing his brother, Rex Farran.

May11, 1948. A letter bomb addressed to Sir Evelyn Barker, former Commanding Officer in Palestine, was detected in the nick of time by his wife.

And then as time passed on there was more for the Lord to see-------

12 yr old boy SHOT DEAD in front of your eyes
Updated 9.48 p.m., 3rd Oct 2000
A 12 Year old Boy Shot Dead in front of YOUR Eyes

IDF troops shot and killed an 8-year-old Palestinian girl who was on her way to school in a Gaza Strip refugee camp
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/494672.html

UN officials: Girl hit by IDF gunfire in UN school in Gaza
An 11-year-old Palestinian girl was shot in the stomach
and critically wounded by Israel Defense Forces gunfire. IDF troops fired two shots, one of the shots hit a fifth-grade student at the school. Last month, a 10-year-old girl was killed by IDF gunfire while sitting at her desk at the same school.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/487788.html

United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) 7 September 2004 At 07:45 10-year old Raghda Adnan Al-Assar was struck in the head by Israeli fire while sitting at her desk in UNRWA's Elementary

Girl's School On June 1 this year two ten-year old children in UNRWA's
Al-Umariye Elementary Boys' School in Rafah were hit by a bullet from a Israeli tank
In March 2003
Photos of a 12 year old palestinian boy being shot by Israeli soldiers and the ambulance driver who tried to save him also being shot and killed.
http://www.palestine-net.com/misc/durra/

Three-year-old Rawan Abu Zeid, who took bullets in the neck and head while buying candy with her friends.
5 June 2004
The New Yorker’s Israel: Where Objectivity Fails

An eight-year-old Palestinian girl shot dead by Israeli troops in the central Gaza Strip was killed while showing off her new school uniform to friends
Lend me your swords

Boy of 17, shot by Israeli soldiers, left bleeding overnight to die
September 8, 2003
The bullet ridden corpse of Mohammad Abdullah Abu al-Husni, was found yesterday morning near the town of Jabaliya, where he lived in Gaza.
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/updates/left_to_die.htm

Haneen, who was eight years old, had been shot twice in the head by an Israeli soldier
She was coming down the street and ran to me and hugged me, crying,
'Mother, mother'. Two bullets hit her in the head, one straight after the other.
She was still in my arms and she died."
'I can't imagine anyone who considers himself a human being can do this'

This boy was in his own house and an IDF soldier barges into the house and shoots him dead Mohammed a 7-year-old boy fell dead, still clutching his piece of bread.
Tuesday December 23, 2003
Israel Army action breeds fresh hatred

Israel Baby is born then dies
September 11, 2003
Birth and death at the checkpoint
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/338937.html

Three shot in the back by Israeli snipers, one a 15-year-old boy
January, 2004
15 year old boy who was shot while standing in front of his house. by a sniper.
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/appeals/lift_the_siege.htm

Three-year-old Rawan Abu Zeid, who took bullets in the neck and head while buying candy with her friends.
5 June 2004
The New Yorker’s Israel: Where Objectivity Fails

15 year old boy & Amer Kathym & Rouhi Hazem Shouman all shot in the back by a sniper.
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/appeals/lift_the_siege.htm

An eight-year-old Palestinian girl shot dead by Israeli troops in the central Gaza Strip was killed while showing off her new school uniform to friends
Lend me your swords

IDF shoots 13-year-old girl in the back with 20 bullets and then the IDF commander goes over to the girl and shoots her again to make sure she was dead
Tue., October 05, 2004
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/485274.html

“I have never before watched soldiers entice children like mice into a trap and murder them for sport."
http://www.israel-state-terrorism.org/children.html
http://tinyurl.com/8rmn2g3


Do you believe the Lord was happy to see what His children have done?

That's interesting, since we've just read about Bil'am, each time he tried to convince Hashem to destroy Israel, he blessed it. And didn't get any part in the world to come, because even when he blessed Israel it was out of sabotage and pride.

Do You believe that being among the Bil'am's of our day serves any good?

That's interesting, since we've just read about Bil'am... however each time he tried to convince Hashem to destroy Israel, he blessed it.

Wow ...

I see You've brought a complex argument there...
 
There are two (2) points of view that must be considered in their intent and purpose—

View #1 is a biblical view:


(Deu 7:6 KJV) For thou art a holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

(Deu 7:7 KJV) The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

The Lord chose them for a purpose and that purpose was to exemplify His teaching and from this example others would understand by this example and follow along this path bringing peace and tranquility to all.

(Deu 1:16 KJV) And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

(Deu 10:19 KJV) Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

(Deu 24:19 KJV) When thou cuttest down thine harvest in thy field, and hast forgot a sheaf in the field, thou shalt not go again to fetch it: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow: that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hands.

(Deu 24:20 KJV) When thou beatest thine olive tree, thou shalt not go over the boughs again: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow.

(Deu 24:21 KJV) When thou gatherest the grapes of thy vineyard, thou shalt not glean it afterward: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow.

****Then time passed on and the Lord returned to see what His children have done to further His cause----

(Ezek 36:17 KJV) Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their ..own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.

(Ezek 36:18 KJV) Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it.

(Ezek 36:22 KJV) Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

(Ezek 36:24 KJV) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

(Ezek 36:31 KJV) Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

(Ezek 36:32 KJV) Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

Clearly the Jews of that day did not follow His instructions and the Lord was appalled at what He saw. This time period may mark the time they were scattered because of the discretions he was witness to.

View #2 is an historical view:

July 22, 1946. Zionist terrorists blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem killing or injuring more than 200 persons.

October 1, 1946. The British Embassy in Rome was badly damaged by bomb explosions, for which Irgun claimed responsibility.

September 3, 1947. A postal bomb addressed to the British War Office exploded in the post office sorting room in London, injuring 2 persons. It was attributed to Irgun or Stern Gangs.

December ll, 1947. Six Arabs were killed and 30 wounded when bombs were thrown from Jewish trucks at Arab buses in Haifa; 12 Arabs were killed and others injured in an attack by armed Zionists on an Arab coastal village near Haifa.

December 13, 1947 -- February 10, 1948. Seven incidents of bomb-tossing at innocent Arab civilians in cafes and markets, killing 138 and wounding 271 others, During this period, there were 9 attacks on Arab buses. Zionists mined passenger trains on at least 4 occasions, killing 93 persons and wounding 161 others.

December 29, 1947. Two British constables and 11 Arabs were killed and 32 Arabs injured, at the Damascus Gate in Jerusalem when Irgun members threw a bomb from a taxi.

June 1947. Letters sent to British Cabinet Ministers were found to contain bombs.

December ll, 1947. Six Arabs were killed and 30 wounded when bombs were thrown from Jewish trucks at Arab buses in Haifa ; 12 Arabs were killed and others injured in an attack by armed Zionists on an Arab coastal village near Haifa.

December 29, 1947. Two British constables and 11 Arabs were killed and 32 Arabs injured, at the Damascus Gate in Jerusalem when Irgun members threw a bomb from a taxi.

January 5, 1948. The Arab-owned Semiramis Hotel in Jerusalem was blown up, killing 20 persons.

January 7, 1948. Seventeen Arabs were killed by a bomb at the Jaffa Gate in Jerusalem, 3 of them while trying to escape. Further casualties, including the murder of a British officer near Hebron, were reported from different parts of the country.

May 3, 1948. A book bomb addressed to a British Army officer, who had been stationed in Palestine exploded, killing his brother, Rex Farran.

May11, 1948. A letter bomb addressed to Sir Evelyn Barker, former Commanding Officer in Palestine, was detected in the nick of time by his wife.

And then as time passed on there was more for the Lord to see-------

12 yr old boy SHOT DEAD in front of your eyes
Updated 9.48 p.m., 3rd Oct 2000
A 12 Year old Boy Shot Dead in front of YOUR Eyes

IDF troops shot and killed an 8-year-old Palestinian girl who was on her way to school in a Gaza Strip refugee camp
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/494672.html

UN officials: Girl hit by IDF gunfire in UN school in Gaza
An 11-year-old Palestinian girl was shot in the stomach
and critically wounded by Israel Defense Forces gunfire. IDF troops fired two shots, one of the shots hit a fifth-grade student at the school. Last month, a 10-year-old girl was killed by IDF gunfire while sitting at her desk at the same school.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/487788.html

United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) 7 September 2004 At 07:45 10-year old Raghda Adnan Al-Assar was struck in the head by Israeli fire while sitting at her desk in UNRWA's Elementary

Girl's School On June 1 this year two ten-year old children in UNRWA's
Al-Umariye Elementary Boys' School in Rafah were hit by a bullet from a Israeli tank
In March 2003
Photos of a 12 year old palestinian boy being shot by Israeli soldiers and the ambulance driver who tried to save him also being shot and killed.
http://www.palestine-net.com/misc/durra/

Three-year-old Rawan Abu Zeid, who took bullets in the neck and head while buying candy with her friends.
5 June 2004
The New Yorker’s Israel: Where Objectivity Fails

An eight-year-old Palestinian girl shot dead by Israeli troops in the central Gaza Strip was killed while showing off her new school uniform to friends
Lend me your swords

Boy of 17, shot by Israeli soldiers, left bleeding overnight to die
September 8, 2003
The bullet ridden corpse of Mohammad Abdullah Abu al-Husni, was found yesterday morning near the town of Jabaliya, where he lived in Gaza.
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/updates/left_to_die.htm

Haneen, who was eight years old, had been shot twice in the head by an Israeli soldier
She was coming down the street and ran to me and hugged me, crying,
'Mother, mother'. Two bullets hit her in the head, one straight after the other.
She was still in my arms and she died."
'I can't imagine anyone who considers himself a human being can do this'

This boy was in his own house and an IDF soldier barges into the house and shoots him dead Mohammed a 7-year-old boy fell dead, still clutching his piece of bread.
Tuesday December 23, 2003
Israel Army action breeds fresh hatred

Israel Baby is born then dies
September 11, 2003
Birth and death at the checkpoint
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/338937.html

Three shot in the back by Israeli snipers, one a 15-year-old boy
January, 2004
15 year old boy who was shot while standing in front of his house. by a sniper.
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/appeals/lift_the_siege.htm

Three-year-old Rawan Abu Zeid, who took bullets in the neck and head while buying candy with her friends.
5 June 2004
The New Yorker’s Israel: Where Objectivity Fails

15 year old boy & Amer Kathym & Rouhi Hazem Shouman all shot in the back by a sniper.
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/appeals/lift_the_siege.htm

An eight-year-old Palestinian girl shot dead by Israeli troops in the central Gaza Strip was killed while showing off her new school uniform to friends
Lend me your swords

IDF shoots 13-year-old girl in the back with 20 bullets and then the IDF commander goes over to the girl and shoots her again to make sure she was dead
Tue., October 05, 2004
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/485274.html

“I have never before watched soldiers entice children like mice into a trap and murder them for sport."
http://www.israel-state-terrorism.org/children.html
http://tinyurl.com/8rmn2g3


Do you believe the Lord was happy to see what His children have done?

That's interesting, since we've just read about Bil'am, each time he tried to convince Hashem to destroy Israel, he blessed it. And didn't get any part in the world to come, because even when he blessed Israel it was out of sabotage and pride.

Do You believe that being among the Bil'am's of our day serves any good?

That's interesting, since we've just read about Bil'am... however each time he tried to convince Hashem to destroy Israel, he blessed it.

Wow ...

I see You've brought a complex argument there...


More then that I realized something ..
 
I studied the bible as hell on wheels , i would write what i learned , I would buy books rent them , history books I tried to search for the truth.. I read the Catholic bible and so many Christian bibles back and forth ..

People threw me out of missions , because I was always searching for god..
 
I studied the bible as hell on wheels , i would write what i learned , I would buy books rent them , history books I tried to search for the truth.. I read the Catholic bible and so many Christian bibles back and forth ..

People threw me out of missions , because I was always searching for god..

Now synthesize it with what You say realized from the example of Bil'am, and explain.
 
In my view Zionism is a cult that sees themselves as special and above all others. They represent the pure definition of racism.

Yes. But please understand that "your view" is not a representation of reality.

There is no objective measure of Zionism which matches an objective definition of a cult nor of racism nor of any inherent "specialness".

Zionism is no different than Tibetanism. Or Catalanism. Or Coast Salishism. Or Kurdishism. Or Cherokeeism. Or Serbianism. Or Croatiaism. Or Western Saharanism. Or Koreanism. Or Maoriism. Or any of hundreds of different "isms" in our world. It is simply the right of a people to sovereign self-determination over some of their historical homeland.

To deny that to everyone is to reject the construct of current international law. To deny that to some and not to others is hypocrisy. To deny that to only the Jewish people is plain and simple antisemitism.
 
I studied the bible as hell on wheels , i would write what i learned , I would buy books rent them , history books I tried to search for the truth.. I read the Catholic bible and so many Christian bibles back and forth ..

People threw me out of missions , because I was always searching for god..

Now synthesize it with what You say realized from the example of Bil'am, and explain.

Simple ... explore it.
 
In my view Zionism is a cult that sees themselves as special and above all others. They represent the pure definition of racism.

Yes. But please understand that "your view" is not a representation of reality.

There is no objective measure of Zionism which matches an objective definition of a cult nor of racism nor of any inherent "specialness".

Zionism is no different than Tibetanism. Or Catalanism. Or Coast Salishism. Or Kurdishism. Or Cherokeeism. Or Serbianism. Or Croatiaism. Or Western Saharanism. Or Koreanism. Or Maoriism. Or any of hundreds of different "isms" in our world. It is simply the right of a people to sovereign self-determination over some of their historical homeland.

To deny that to everyone is to reject the construct of current international law. To deny that to some and not to others is hypocrisy. To deny that to only the Jewish people is plain and simple antisemitism.

International law don't mean anything ..
 
In my view Zionism is a cult that sees themselves as special and above all others. They represent the pure definition of racism.

Yes. But please understand that "your view" is not a representation of reality.

There is no objective measure of Zionism which matches an objective definition of a cult nor of racism nor of any inherent "specialness".

Zionism is no different than Tibetanism. Or Catalanism. Or Coast Salishism. Or Kurdishism. Or Cherokeeism. Or Serbianism. Or Croatiaism. Or Western Saharanism. Or Koreanism. Or Maoriism. Or any of hundreds of different "isms" in our world. It is simply the right of a people to sovereign self-determination over some of their historical homeland.

To deny that to everyone is to reject the construct of current international law. To deny that to some and not to others is hypocrisy. To deny that to only the Jewish people is plain and simple antisemitism.

International law don't mean anything ..

Why?
 
In my view Zionism is a cult that sees themselves as special and above all others. They represent the pure definition of racism.

Yes. But please understand that "your view" is not a representation of reality.

There is no objective measure of Zionism which matches an objective definition of a cult nor of racism nor of any inherent "specialness".

Zionism is no different than Tibetanism. Or Catalanism. Or Coast Salishism. Or Kurdishism. Or Cherokeeism. Or Serbianism. Or Croatiaism. Or Western Saharanism. Or Koreanism. Or Maoriism. Or any of hundreds of different "isms" in our world. It is simply the right of a people to sovereign self-determination over some of their historical homeland.

To deny that to everyone is to reject the construct of current international law. To deny that to some and not to others is hypocrisy. To deny that to only the Jewish people is plain and simple antisemitism.

International law don't mean anything ..

Why?



USA to big, tojo realized it..

God made us put the Jews back
 
God is way to powerful, he does this crap all the time , if you really study him , you can go through all the bibles ,history books.

Google, this mother fucker is real..

I am saying this as a guy who is dieing
 
Your stomach hurts you shake and God calls you home...thats what's happening to me
 
3. The Jewish people today again speak the language of Torah.

The torah is not a language, it is a version of the Old Testament and five (5) verses say it best best--

Ezekiel

25And you, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end,

26Thus says the Lord GOD; Remove the turban, and take off the crown: this shall not remain the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high.

27I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he comes whose right it is; and I will give it to him.

31And I will pour out my indignation upon you, I will blow against you in the fire of my wrath, and deliver you into the hand of brutal men, skilful to destroy.

32You shall be for fuel to the fire; your blood shall be in the midst of the land; you shall be no more remembered: for I the LORD have spoken it.

According to a 2002 study by the Jewish Agency, "the number of Jews in the world is declining at an average of 50,000 per year."

Jewish population by country - Wikipedia
 
5. The Jewish people, defending their promised land, defeated their numerous and power enemies.

Is the land of “Israel” their true ancient homeland?

Promised Land

“Moses went up Mount Nebo to the top of Pisgah, looked over the promised land of Israel spread out before him, and died, at the age of one hundred and twenty, according to Talmudic legend on 7 Adar, his 120th birthday exactly.

Moab is the historical name for a mountainous strip of land in modern-day Jordan running along the eastern shore of the Dead Sea. In ancient times, it was home to the kingdom of the Moabites, a people often in conflict with their Israelite neighbors to the west.

The Moabites were a historical people, whose existence is attested to by numerous archeological findings, most notably the Mesha Stele, which describes the Moabite victory over an unnamed son of King Omri of Israel. Their capital was Dibon, located next to the modern Jordanian town of Dhiban.

Moab - New World Encyclopedia


NO, it is not and that "promise" came with conditions that they failed to follow then; and today they continue to disobey His commandments.
 
This is not a thread about the G-D of Abraham giving the land to the Jewish people. It is about the Mandate for Palestine and what it took for Israel to be created.

Let us keep the thread on topic, please.
 
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