The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?

[Sixties Fan]

I do not know where you got that .....

"Transjordan, The East Bank of The Jordan, has always been the home of the so called Egyptian-Syrian-Jordanian people living in The West Bank and Gaza who like to call themselves Palestinians"


......from. You seem to be confusing some things and put them all together.

I will not go into it and try to unravel it.

Since there never was a people known as Palestinians before 1964 CE, I really do not know which source you got that saying from, as it has no validity to it at all.

And "always" for the Arabs began in the 7th Century CE after the Kurdish and Arab Muslim invasion.

Therefore, there hasn't been an "always" presence of those Arabs who now call themselves Palestinians, in Gaza, Areas A and B and even in Israel.

That's not true either. Palestine is what The Roman Empire renamed Israel during their occupation of Israel before the time of Christ over 2,000 years ago. They called Israelis Palestinians at that time. And Israel and the area it was located in has been called Palestine since The Roman Empire occupied it, and The Empire Dissolved. If any argument can ever be made about who The Palestinians are, Hebrews or Israelis is the correct answer.

History of the Jews in the Roman Empire - Wikipedia

Regarding the last 100 years, The Balfour Declaration, and The Mandatory Palestine Declaration handed down by The High Commission of Palestine still referred to Israel as Palestine in general. But also with the 1917 Balfour Declaration, and High Commission of Palestine, and The Peele Commission they differentiated between The Hebrews already living in that area, and the Arabs living in that area.

But you are correct. There actually is not actual genetic population called Palestinians. It's more or less a general term like saying The Middle East, and refers to a locale, namely the general area of Israel and outlying lands and not an actual people.

The Romans name Judea and the area, Israel, Palestine after the 135 CE defeat of Bar Kochba, which was about 100 years AFTER the time of Jesus.
Yes, the people who lived there were Jews, plus a few others, like Greeks, etc. But no Arabs, as the Arabs are trying to say now.

We have no disagreements there.

There is no genetic population called Palestinians, but the Arab leaders and the KGB chose in 1964, to adopt that name (national identity) more in order to confuse the idea that the Arabs are the true indigenous people of the area, and not the descendants of the Hebrews and Israelites.

The Jewish People have not called themselves Hebrews since Israel first came to be 3000 years ago, with King David.

During Roman times they were known as Judeans, or Jews.

They should call themselves Hebrews again.

You are correct to say there were NO ARABS in Israel until around 650 AD when The Roman Empire was dissolving. The Hebrews inhabited Israel long before that. The Babylonian Captivity was a full 1,200 years before that.

Around 4,000 years ago Egypt attacked Israel and led many Jews in to Captivity.


Were Hebrews ever slaves in ancient Egypt? Yes

Starting over 4,000 years ago, Semites began crossing the deserts from Palestine into Egypt. The tomb of the high priest Khnumhotep II of the 20th century BCE even shows a scene of Semitic traders bringing offerings to the dead (top picture).

Some of these Semites came to Egypt as traders and immigrants. Others were prisoners of war, and yet others were sold into slavery by their own people. A papyrus mentions a wealthy Egyptian lord whose 77 slaves included 48 of Semitic origin.

Physical evidence of slaves working there isn't likely to have survived. But a leather scroll dating to the time of Ramesses II (1303 BCE-1213 BCE) describes a close account of brick-making apparently by enslaved prisoners of war from an area that can roughly be deduced to be Israel which sounds very much like the biblical account. The scroll describes 40 taskmasters, each with a daily target of 2,000 bricks (see Exodus 5:6).

I call The Israelis Hebrews, because It was The Hebrews who survived The Babylonian and Assyrian Captivities, and they were called Hebrews initially when Rome began to occupy Israel.

Both The Term Jew....from Judea, and Palestine and Palestinian are Greco Roman Terms given to The Hebrews-Israelis. It is more correct then to call a Jew a Hebrew or an Israeli, and to call their Religion Judaism which is the Roman Term they adopted for their religion when many of them lived in Rome and were 'Helenized'. It is still ok to call a Hebrew, or Israeli a Jew, but when you do so, you are referring then more to their religion than their ethnicity.

IT IS NEVER OK to call a Hebrew-Israeli a Palestinian, nor is it ever OK to call Israel Palestine, as that is actually a Racial Slur similar to calling a Black Man the "N" word.

This is why certain peoples love using the word Palestine, and Palestinian as it is an insult to Jewish Peoples, and it has Racist Undertones, and Racist Overtones.

I am sorry. You may be confusing history of other people with the history of the early Hebrews.

{Around 4,000 years ago Egypt attacked Israel and led many Jews in to Captivity.}

No such thing happened.
4000 years ago, Israel as a Nation did not exist. Abraham had not yet moved to Canaan, and Judaism had not been founded.
The Hebrews, the 12 tribes, became slaves after going to Egypt due to a draught. The whole area of Canaan was controlled by Egypt, then. At first they stayed there as free people, then a Pharaoh decided to enslave them. It is written in Genesis.

You may be answering Jose, so I will leave you to it.

Actually, there is no point in explaining anything to him. His mind is set on denying the Jewish connection to their ancestors and their ancient homeland.

I changed my post to defer to your sensitivity for dotted "i" and crossed 't' to Around 4,000 years ago Egypt attacked The Hebrews living in The Promised Land and led many Hebrews in to Captivity.

All better now?

The reference to 4,000 years ago was a citation from a web page about History. So, my bad, but you can take that up with them.

The Merneptah Stele, which states: "Israel is laid waste, its seed is no more." Not quite

The Merneptah Stele—also known as the Israel Stele or the Victory Stele of Merneptah—is an inscription by the ancient Egyptian Pharaoh Merneptah (reign: 1213 to 1203 BC) discovered by Flinders Petrie in 1896 at Thebes, and now housed in the Egyptian Museum in Cairo.
Discovered: 1896
Created: c. 1208 BC
Present location: Egyptian Museum, Cairo

Merneptah Stele - Wikipedia

So, 1,200 BC, 3,219 years ago The Term Israel was used by Egypt when they commemorated a major military victory over them.

Care to tell me again, how "ISRAEL" did not exist 4,000 years ago? If the term "Israel" was used 3,200 years ago in a commemoration of a victory over "Israel" then "Israel" most likely existed as a nation 4,000 years ago.

Here is another quote from that page:

Clues to Israelite presence in Egypt

Conclusively, Semitic slaves there were. However, critics argue there's no archaeological evidence of a Semitic tribe worshiping Yahweh in Egypt.

Because of the muddy conditions of the East Delta, almost no papyri have survived – but those that did, may provide further clues in the search for the lost Israelites.

The papyrus Anastasi VI from around 3200 years ago describes how the Egyptian authorities allowed a group of Semitic nomads from Edom who worshiped Yahweh to pass the border-fortress in the region of Tjeku (Wadi Tumilat) and proceed with their livestock to the lakes of Pithom.

Interestng HUH? So wait, There was a Stele depicting a Military Victory over ISRAEL, 3,200 years ago, and then a Papyrus from 3,200 years ago that talks about Egypt allowing a group of semetic people to Worship Yaweh. So many of these people had to be CAPTIVES of that Military Victory over "ISRAEL"

NOW lets ask if MOSES Existed?

According to the scribe Manetho, the founder of monotheism was Osarisph, who later adopted name Moses, and led his followers out of Egypt in Akhenaten's reign. Akhenaten was the heretic Pharaoh who abolished polytheism and replaced it with monotheism, worshiping only the sun disc, Aten.

In 1987, a team of French archaeologists discovered the tomb of a man named Aper-el or Aperia (his name is spelled both ways in Egyptian inscriptions), commander of the charioteers and vizier to Ahmenotep II and to his son Akhenaten.

The vizier's name ending in -el could well be related to the Hebraic god Elohim; and the ending Aper-Ia could be indicative of Ya, short for Yahweh. This interpretation supports the argument that Hebrews were present in Egypt during the 18th dynasty starting 3,600 years ago (1543-1292 BCE).

So did the Exodus happen? Ask Hatshepsut

Ex. 12:37 says “600,000 men on foot, beside children” went out from Egypt. That extrapolates to around two million people making the exodus (extrapolated from Numbers 1:46) .

If around 2 million people left Egypt, when the entire population has been estimated at around 3 to 4.5 million, it would have been noticed, and would have resounded in Egyptian records.

Note that Herodotus claims that a million Persians invaded Greece in 480 BCE. The numbers were undoubtedly exaggerated, as in most ancient records. But nobody claims the invasion of Greece never happened.

That said, as the Egyptologist Kenneth Kitchen points out, the Hebrew word for thousand, eleph, can mean different things depending upon context. It can even denote a group/clan or a leader/chief. Elsewhere in the bible, "eleph" could not possibly mean "a thousand”. For example: 1 Kings 20:30 mentions a wall falling in Aphek that killed 27,000 men. If we translate eleph as leader, the text more sensibly says that 27 officers were killed by the falling wall. Bv that logic, some scholars propose that the Exodus actually consisted of about 20,000 people.

The absence of evidence of a sojourn in the wilderness proves nothing. A Semitic group in flight wouldn't have left direct evidence: They would not have built cities, built monuments or done anything but leave footprints in the desert sand.

Yet more support for the Haggadah may lie in an interesting poem copied onto a papyrus dating to the 13th century BCE (although original is believed to be much older), called the "Admonitions of Impuwer or the Lord of All").

River of blood

It portrays a devastated Egypt haunted by plagues, droughts, violent uprisings – culminating in the escape of slaves with Egypt's wealth. In short, the Impuwer papyrus seems to be telling the story of Exodus from the Egyptian point of view, from a river of blood to the devastation of the livestock to darkness.

The Stele refers to The Children of Israel.
Israel was Jacob's new name.
There was no Nation of Israel, yet at that time.

Read Genesis, instead of any of these links you are looking at.

 

[Shusha]

I do not know where you got that .....

"Transjordan, The East Bank of The Jordan, has always been the home of the so called Egyptian-Syrian-Jordanian people living in The West Bank and Gaza who like to call themselves Palestinians"


......from. You seem to be confusing some things and put them all together.

I will not go into it and try to unravel it.

Since there never was a people known as Palestinians before 1964 CE, I really do not know which source you got that saying from, as it has no validity to it at all.

And "always" for the Arabs began in the 7th Century CE after the Kurdish and Arab Muslim invasion.

Therefore, there hasn't been an "always" presence of those Arabs who now call themselves Palestinians, in Gaza, Areas A and B and even in Israel.

That's not true either. Palestine is what The Roman Empire renamed Israel during their occupation of Israel before the time of Christ over 2,000 years ago. They called Israelis Palestinians at that time. And Israel and the area it was located in has been called Palestine since The Roman Empire occupied it, and The Empire Dissolved. If any argument can ever be made about who The Palestinians are, Hebrews or Israelis is the correct answer.

History of the Jews in the Roman Empire - Wikipedia

Regarding the last 100 years, The Balfour Declaration, and The Mandatory Palestine Declaration handed down by The High Commission of Palestine still referred to Israel as Palestine in general. But also with the 1917 Balfour Declaration, and High Commission of Palestine, and The Peele Commission they differentiated between The Hebrews already living in that area, and the Arabs living in that area.

But you are correct. There actually is not actual genetic population called Palestinians. It's more or less a general term like saying The Middle East, and refers to a locale, namely the general area of Israel and outlying lands and not an actual people.

The Romans name Judea and the area, Israel, Palestine after the 135 CE defeat of Bar Kochba, which was about 100 years AFTER the time of Jesus.
Yes, the people who lived there were Jews, plus a few others, like Greeks, etc. But no Arabs, as the Arabs are trying to say now.

We have no disagreements there.

There is no genetic population called Palestinians, but the Arab leaders and the KGB chose in 1964, to adopt that name (national identity) more in order to confuse the idea that the Arabs are the true indigenous people of the area, and not the descendants of the Hebrews and Israelites.

The Jewish People have not called themselves Hebrews since Israel first came to be 3000 years ago, with King David.

During Roman times they were known as Judeans, or Jews.

They should call themselves Hebrews again.

You are correct to say there were NO ARABS in Israel until around 650 AD when The Roman Empire was dissolving. The Hebrews inhabited Israel long before that. The Babylonian Captivity was a full 1,200 years before that.

Around 4,000 years ago Egypt attacked Israel and led many Jews in to Captivity.


Were Hebrews ever slaves in ancient Egypt? Yes

Starting over 4,000 years ago, Semites began crossing the deserts from Palestine into Egypt. The tomb of the high priest Khnumhotep II of the 20th century BCE even shows a scene of Semitic traders bringing offerings to the dead (top picture).

Some of these Semites came to Egypt as traders and immigrants. Others were prisoners of war, and yet others were sold into slavery by their own people. A papyrus mentions a wealthy Egyptian lord whose 77 slaves included 48 of Semitic origin.

Physical evidence of slaves working there isn't likely to have survived. But a leather scroll dating to the time of Ramesses II (1303 BCE-1213 BCE) describes a close account of brick-making apparently by enslaved prisoners of war from an area that can roughly be deduced to be Israel which sounds very much like the biblical account. The scroll describes 40 taskmasters, each with a daily target of 2,000 bricks (see Exodus 5:6).

I call The Israelis Hebrews, because It was The Hebrews who survived The Babylonian and Assyrian Captivities, and they were called Hebrews initially when Rome began to occupy Israel.

Both The Term Jew....from Judea, and Palestine and Palestinian are Greco Roman Terms given to The Hebrews-Israelis. It is more correct then to call a Jew a Hebrew or an Israeli, and to call their Religion Judaism which is the Roman Term they adopted for their religion when many of them lived in Rome and were 'Helenized'. It is still ok to call a Hebrew, or Israeli a Jew, but when you do so, you are referring then more to their religion than their ethnicity.

IT IS NEVER OK to call a Hebrew-Israeli a Palestinian, nor is it ever OK to call Israel Palestine, as that is actually a Racial Slur similar to calling a Black Man the "N" word.

This is why certain peoples love using the word Palestine, and Palestinian as it is an insult to Jewish Peoples, and it has Racist Undertones, and Racist Overtones.

I am sorry. You may be confusing history of other people with the history of the early Hebrews.

{Around 4,000 years ago Egypt attacked Israel and led many Jews in to Captivity.}

No such thing happened.
4000 years ago, Israel as a Nation did not exist. Abraham had not yet moved to Canaan, and Judaism had not been founded.
The Hebrews, the 12 tribes, became slaves after going to Egypt due to a draught. The whole area of Canaan was controlled by Egypt, then. At first they stayed there as free people, then a Pharaoh decided to enslave them. It is written in Genesis.

You may be answering Jose, so I will leave you to it.

Actually, there is no point in explaining anything to him. His mind is set on denying the Jewish connection to their ancestors and their ancient homeland.

I changed my post to defer to your sensitivity for dotted "i" and crossed 't' to Around 4,000 years ago Egypt attacked The Hebrews living in The Promised Land and led many Hebrews in to Captivity.

All better now?

The reference to 4,000 years ago was a citation from a web page about History. So, my bad, but you can take that up with them.

The Merneptah Stele, which states: "Israel is laid waste, its seed is no more." Not quite

The Merneptah Stele—also known as the Israel Stele or the Victory Stele of Merneptah—is an inscription by the ancient Egyptian Pharaoh Merneptah (reign: 1213 to 1203 BC) discovered by Flinders Petrie in 1896 at Thebes, and now housed in the Egyptian Museum in Cairo.
Discovered: 1896
Created: c. 1208 BC
Present location: Egyptian Museum, Cairo

Merneptah Stele - Wikipedia

So, 1,200 BC, 3,219 years ago The Term Israel was used by Egypt when they commemorated a major military victory over them.

Care to tell me again, how "ISRAEL" did not exist 4,000 years ago? If the term "Israel" was used 3,200 years ago in a commemoration of a victory over "Israel" then "Israel" most likely existed as a nation 4,000 years ago.

Here is another quote from that page:

Clues to Israelite presence in Egypt

Conclusively, Semitic slaves there were. However, critics argue there's no archaeological evidence of a Semitic tribe worshiping Yahweh in Egypt.

Because of the muddy conditions of the East Delta, almost no papyri have survived – but those that did, may provide further clues in the search for the lost Israelites.

The papyrus Anastasi VI from around 3200 years ago describes how the Egyptian authorities allowed a group of Semitic nomads from Edom who worshiped Yahweh to pass the border-fortress in the region of Tjeku (Wadi Tumilat) and proceed with their livestock to the lakes of Pithom.

Interestng HUH? So wait, There was a Stele depicting a Military Victory over ISRAEL, 3,200 years ago, and then a Papyrus from 3,200 years ago that talks about Egypt allowing a group of semetic people to Worship Yaweh. So many of these people had to be CAPTIVES of that Military Victory over "ISRAEL"

NOW lets ask if MOSES Existed?

According to the scribe Manetho, the founder of monotheism was Osarisph, who later adopted name Moses, and led his followers out of Egypt in Akhenaten's reign. Akhenaten was the heretic Pharaoh who abolished polytheism and replaced it with monotheism, worshiping only the sun disc, Aten.

In 1987, a team of French archaeologists discovered the tomb of a man named Aper-el or Aperia (his name is spelled both ways in Egyptian inscriptions), commander of the charioteers and vizier to Ahmenotep II and to his son Akhenaten.

The vizier's name ending in -el could well be related to the Hebraic god Elohim; and the ending Aper-Ia could be indicative of Ya, short for Yahweh. This interpretation supports the argument that Hebrews were present in Egypt during the 18th dynasty starting 3,600 years ago (1543-1292 BCE).

So did the Exodus happen? Ask Hatshepsut

Ex. 12:37 says “600,000 men on foot, beside children” went out from Egypt. That extrapolates to around two million people making the exodus (extrapolated from Numbers 1:46) .

If around 2 million people left Egypt, when the entire population has been estimated at around 3 to 4.5 million, it would have been noticed, and would have resounded in Egyptian records.

Note that Herodotus claims that a million Persians invaded Greece in 480 BCE. The numbers were undoubtedly exaggerated, as in most ancient records. But nobody claims the invasion of Greece never happened.

That said, as the Egyptologist Kenneth Kitchen points out, the Hebrew word for thousand, eleph, can mean different things depending upon context. It can even denote a group/clan or a leader/chief. Elsewhere in the bible, "eleph" could not possibly mean "a thousand”. For example: 1 Kings 20:30 mentions a wall falling in Aphek that killed 27,000 men. If we translate eleph as leader, the text more sensibly says that 27 officers were killed by the falling wall. Bv that logic, some scholars propose that the Exodus actually consisted of about 20,000 people.

The absence of evidence of a sojourn in the wilderness proves nothing. A Semitic group in flight wouldn't have left direct evidence: They would not have built cities, built monuments or done anything but leave footprints in the desert sand.

Yet more support for the Haggadah may lie in an interesting poem copied onto a papyrus dating to the 13th century BCE (although original is believed to be much older), called the "Admonitions of Impuwer or the Lord of All").

River of blood

It portrays a devastated Egypt haunted by plagues, droughts, violent uprisings – culminating in the escape of slaves with Egypt's wealth. In short, the Impuwer papyrus seems to be telling the story of Exodus from the Egyptian point of view, from a river of blood to the devastation of the livestock to darkness.

The Anastasi Papyrus VI does not mention who the shasu worshipped. At least not in the translation I read.

 

[The Original Tree]

That's not true either. Palestine is what The Roman Empire renamed Israel during their occupation of Israel before the time of Christ over 2,000 years ago. They called Israelis Palestinians at that time. And Israel and the area it was located in has been called Palestine since The Roman Empire occupied it, and The Empire Dissolved. If any argument can ever be made about who The Palestinians are, Hebrews or Israelis is the correct answer.

History of the Jews in the Roman Empire - Wikipedia

Regarding the last 100 years, The Balfour Declaration, and The Mandatory Palestine Declaration handed down by The High Commission of Palestine still referred to Israel as Palestine in general. But also with the 1917 Balfour Declaration, and High Commission of Palestine, and The Peele Commission they differentiated between The Hebrews already living in that area, and the Arabs living in that area.

But you are correct. There actually is not actual genetic population called Palestinians. It's more or less a general term like saying The Middle East, and refers to a locale, namely the general area of Israel and outlying lands and not an actual people.

The Romans name Judea and the area, Israel, Palestine after the 135 CE defeat of Bar Kochba, which was about 100 years AFTER the time of Jesus.
Yes, the people who lived there were Jews, plus a few others, like Greeks, etc. But no Arabs, as the Arabs are trying to say now.

We have no disagreements there.

There is no genetic population called Palestinians, but the Arab leaders and the KGB chose in 1964, to adopt that name (national identity) more in order to confuse the idea that the Arabs are the true indigenous people of the area, and not the descendants of the Hebrews and Israelites.

The Jewish People have not called themselves Hebrews since Israel first came to be 3000 years ago, with King David.

During Roman times they were known as Judeans, or Jews.

They should call themselves Hebrews again.

You are correct to say there were NO ARABS in Israel until around 650 AD when The Roman Empire was dissolving. The Hebrews inhabited Israel long before that. The Babylonian Captivity was a full 1,200 years before that.

Around 4,000 years ago Egypt attacked Israel and led many Jews in to Captivity.


Were Hebrews ever slaves in ancient Egypt? Yes

Starting over 4,000 years ago, Semites began crossing the deserts from Palestine into Egypt. The tomb of the high priest Khnumhotep II of the 20th century BCE even shows a scene of Semitic traders bringing offerings to the dead (top picture).

Some of these Semites came to Egypt as traders and immigrants. Others were prisoners of war, and yet others were sold into slavery by their own people. A papyrus mentions a wealthy Egyptian lord whose 77 slaves included 48 of Semitic origin.

Physical evidence of slaves working there isn't likely to have survived. But a leather scroll dating to the time of Ramesses II (1303 BCE-1213 BCE) describes a close account of brick-making apparently by enslaved prisoners of war from an area that can roughly be deduced to be Israel which sounds very much like the biblical account. The scroll describes 40 taskmasters, each with a daily target of 2,000 bricks (see Exodus 5:6).

I call The Israelis Hebrews, because It was The Hebrews who survived The Babylonian and Assyrian Captivities, and they were called Hebrews initially when Rome began to occupy Israel.

Both The Term Jew....from Judea, and Palestine and Palestinian are Greco Roman Terms given to The Hebrews-Israelis. It is more correct then to call a Jew a Hebrew or an Israeli, and to call their Religion Judaism which is the Roman Term they adopted for their religion when many of them lived in Rome and were 'Helenized'. It is still ok to call a Hebrew, or Israeli a Jew, but when you do so, you are referring then more to their religion than their ethnicity.

IT IS NEVER OK to call a Hebrew-Israeli a Palestinian, nor is it ever OK to call Israel Palestine, as that is actually a Racial Slur similar to calling a Black Man the "N" word.

This is why certain peoples love using the word Palestine, and Palestinian as it is an insult to Jewish Peoples, and it has Racist Undertones, and Racist Overtones.

I am sorry. You may be confusing history of other people with the history of the early Hebrews.

{Around 4,000 years ago Egypt attacked Israel and led many Jews in to Captivity.}

No such thing happened.
4000 years ago, Israel as a Nation did not exist. Abraham had not yet moved to Canaan, and Judaism had not been founded.
The Hebrews, the 12 tribes, became slaves after going to Egypt due to a draught. The whole area of Canaan was controlled by Egypt, then. At first they stayed there as free people, then a Pharaoh decided to enslave them. It is written in Genesis.

You may be answering Jose, so I will leave you to it.

Actually, there is no point in explaining anything to him. His mind is set on denying the Jewish connection to their ancestors and their ancient homeland.

I changed my post to defer to your sensitivity for dotted "i" and crossed 't' to Around 4,000 years ago Egypt attacked The Hebrews living in The Promised Land and led many Hebrews in to Captivity.

All better now?

The reference to 4,000 years ago was a citation from a web page about History. So, my bad, but you can take that up with them.

The Merneptah Stele, which states: "Israel is laid waste, its seed is no more." Not quite

The Merneptah Stele—also known as the Israel Stele or the Victory Stele of Merneptah—is an inscription by the ancient Egyptian Pharaoh Merneptah (reign: 1213 to 1203 BC) discovered by Flinders Petrie in 1896 at Thebes, and now housed in the Egyptian Museum in Cairo.
Discovered: 1896
Created: c. 1208 BC
Present location: Egyptian Museum, Cairo

Merneptah Stele - Wikipedia

So, 1,200 BC, 3,219 years ago The Term Israel was used by Egypt when they commemorated a major military victory over them.

Care to tell me again, how "ISRAEL" did not exist 4,000 years ago? If the term "Israel" was used 3,200 years ago in a commemoration of a victory over "Israel" then "Israel" most likely existed as a nation 4,000 years ago.

Here is another quote from that page:

Clues to Israelite presence in Egypt

Conclusively, Semitic slaves there were. However, critics argue there's no archaeological evidence of a Semitic tribe worshiping Yahweh in Egypt.

Because of the muddy conditions of the East Delta, almost no papyri have survived – but those that did, may provide further clues in the search for the lost Israelites.

The papyrus Anastasi VI from around 3200 years ago describes how the Egyptian authorities allowed a group of Semitic nomads from Edom who worshiped Yahweh to pass the border-fortress in the region of Tjeku (Wadi Tumilat) and proceed with their livestock to the lakes of Pithom.

Interestng HUH? So wait, There was a Stele depicting a Military Victory over ISRAEL, 3,200 years ago, and then a Papyrus from 3,200 years ago that talks about Egypt allowing a group of semetic people to Worship Yaweh. So many of these people had to be CAPTIVES of that Military Victory over "ISRAEL"

NOW lets ask if MOSES Existed?

According to the scribe Manetho, the founder of monotheism was Osarisph, who later adopted name Moses, and led his followers out of Egypt in Akhenaten's reign. Akhenaten was the heretic Pharaoh who abolished polytheism and replaced it with monotheism, worshiping only the sun disc, Aten.

In 1987, a team of French archaeologists discovered the tomb of a man named Aper-el or Aperia (his name is spelled both ways in Egyptian inscriptions), commander of the charioteers and vizier to Ahmenotep II and to his son Akhenaten.

The vizier's name ending in -el could well be related to the Hebraic god Elohim; and the ending Aper-Ia could be indicative of Ya, short for Yahweh. This interpretation supports the argument that Hebrews were present in Egypt during the 18th dynasty starting 3,600 years ago (1543-1292 BCE).

So did the Exodus happen? Ask Hatshepsut

Ex. 12:37 says “600,000 men on foot, beside children” went out from Egypt. That extrapolates to around two million people making the exodus (extrapolated from Numbers 1:46) .

If around 2 million people left Egypt, when the entire population has been estimated at around 3 to 4.5 million, it would have been noticed, and would have resounded in Egyptian records.

Note that Herodotus claims that a million Persians invaded Greece in 480 BCE. The numbers were undoubtedly exaggerated, as in most ancient records. But nobody claims the invasion of Greece never happened.

That said, as the Egyptologist Kenneth Kitchen points out, the Hebrew word for thousand, eleph, can mean different things depending upon context. It can even denote a group/clan or a leader/chief. Elsewhere in the bible, "eleph" could not possibly mean "a thousand”. For example: 1 Kings 20:30 mentions a wall falling in Aphek that killed 27,000 men. If we translate eleph as leader, the text more sensibly says that 27 officers were killed by the falling wall. Bv that logic, some scholars propose that the Exodus actually consisted of about 20,000 people.

The absence of evidence of a sojourn in the wilderness proves nothing. A Semitic group in flight wouldn't have left direct evidence: They would not have built cities, built monuments or done anything but leave footprints in the desert sand.

Yet more support for the Haggadah may lie in an interesting poem copied onto a papyrus dating to the 13th century BCE (although original is believed to be much older), called the "Admonitions of Impuwer or the Lord of All").

River of blood

It portrays a devastated Egypt haunted by plagues, droughts, violent uprisings – culminating in the escape of slaves with Egypt's wealth. In short, the Impuwer papyrus seems to be telling the story of Exodus from the Egyptian point of view, from a river of blood to the devastation of the livestock to darkness.

The Stele refers to The Children of Israel.
Israel was Jacob's new name.
There was no Nation of Israel, yet at that time.

Read Genesis, instead of any of these links you are looking at.

That is your interpretation. A Nation can be a genetically homogeneous people like The Cherokee Nation.

You are debating then what you define as a Nation, and The Word Nation.
Not the fact that Israel was a Nation that inhabited The Promised Land for at least 4,000 years that we know of.

Israel then was a Nation, named after Jacob the Grandson of Abraham who passed down his Inheritance of The Promised Land and The Abrahamic Convenant to Issac, Abraham's son, who then passed it on To Jacob, who was named Israel by Yahweh. So The Grandson of Abraham is Israel, and The Children of Israel are a Nation today, and they were a Nation back then.

There is also historical evidence that Israel was in captivity in Egypt as long ago as 3,600 years ago which further reinforces my assertion that Israel has been a Nation for at least 4,000 years.

We can agree to disagree, but Israel has been a Nation according to evidence found in Egypt as long as 3,600 years ago.

So, I am fine with saying Israel has been a Nation for 4,000 years and has occupied what we call Israel for 4,000 years. They have survived numerous attempts at genocidal extermination, and slavery by The Babylonian Empire, Assyrian Empire, Egyptian Empire, Roman Empire, Ottoman Empire, and Nazi Germany and many many more. They will survive the next Holocaust launched by Islam against them, as Yahweh has promised they would.

If they were "just a people" and "not a nation" then how did they survive thousands of years of assaults and attempts at extermination, and enslavement if they were not a Nation, when faced against so many Nations who were so powerful in their day, we called them EMPIRES?

The Promised Land, and The People of Israel have persisted in ISRAEL for 4,000 Years, despite THE GREATEST EMPIRE'S attempts to remove them, and The Land is theirs, and there is no debating that at all. They will persist until the Return of Christ and after that as well.

 

[Sixties Fan]

The Romans name Judea and the area, Israel, Palestine after the 135 CE defeat of Bar Kochba, which was about 100 years AFTER the time of Jesus.
Yes, the people who lived there were Jews, plus a few others, like Greeks, etc. But no Arabs, as the Arabs are trying to say now.

We have no disagreements there.

There is no genetic population called Palestinians, but the Arab leaders and the KGB chose in 1964, to adopt that name (national identity) more in order to confuse the idea that the Arabs are the true indigenous people of the area, and not the descendants of the Hebrews and Israelites.

The Jewish People have not called themselves Hebrews since Israel first came to be 3000 years ago, with King David.

During Roman times they were known as Judeans, or Jews.

They should call themselves Hebrews again.

You are correct to say there were NO ARABS in Israel until around 650 AD when The Roman Empire was dissolving. The Hebrews inhabited Israel long before that. The Babylonian Captivity was a full 1,200 years before that.

Around 4,000 years ago Egypt attacked Israel and led many Jews in to Captivity.


Were Hebrews ever slaves in ancient Egypt? Yes

Starting over 4,000 years ago, Semites began crossing the deserts from Palestine into Egypt. The tomb of the high priest Khnumhotep II of the 20th century BCE even shows a scene of Semitic traders bringing offerings to the dead (top picture).

Some of these Semites came to Egypt as traders and immigrants. Others were prisoners of war, and yet others were sold into slavery by their own people. A papyrus mentions a wealthy Egyptian lord whose 77 slaves included 48 of Semitic origin.

Physical evidence of slaves working there isn't likely to have survived. But a leather scroll dating to the time of Ramesses II (1303 BCE-1213 BCE) describes a close account of brick-making apparently by enslaved prisoners of war from an area that can roughly be deduced to be Israel which sounds very much like the biblical account. The scroll describes 40 taskmasters, each with a daily target of 2,000 bricks (see Exodus 5:6).

I call The Israelis Hebrews, because It was The Hebrews who survived The Babylonian and Assyrian Captivities, and they were called Hebrews initially when Rome began to occupy Israel.

Both The Term Jew....from Judea, and Palestine and Palestinian are Greco Roman Terms given to The Hebrews-Israelis. It is more correct then to call a Jew a Hebrew or an Israeli, and to call their Religion Judaism which is the Roman Term they adopted for their religion when many of them lived in Rome and were 'Helenized'. It is still ok to call a Hebrew, or Israeli a Jew, but when you do so, you are referring then more to their religion than their ethnicity.

IT IS NEVER OK to call a Hebrew-Israeli a Palestinian, nor is it ever OK to call Israel Palestine, as that is actually a Racial Slur similar to calling a Black Man the "N" word.

This is why certain peoples love using the word Palestine, and Palestinian as it is an insult to Jewish Peoples, and it has Racist Undertones, and Racist Overtones.

I am sorry. You may be confusing history of other people with the history of the early Hebrews.

{Around 4,000 years ago Egypt attacked Israel and led many Jews in to Captivity.}

No such thing happened.
4000 years ago, Israel as a Nation did not exist. Abraham had not yet moved to Canaan, and Judaism had not been founded.
The Hebrews, the 12 tribes, became slaves after going to Egypt due to a draught. The whole area of Canaan was controlled by Egypt, then. At first they stayed there as free people, then a Pharaoh decided to enslave them. It is written in Genesis.

You may be answering Jose, so I will leave you to it.

Actually, there is no point in explaining anything to him. His mind is set on denying the Jewish connection to their ancestors and their ancient homeland.

I changed my post to defer to your sensitivity for dotted "i" and crossed 't' to Around 4,000 years ago Egypt attacked The Hebrews living in The Promised Land and led many Hebrews in to Captivity.

All better now?

The reference to 4,000 years ago was a citation from a web page about History. So, my bad, but you can take that up with them.

The Merneptah Stele, which states: "Israel is laid waste, its seed is no more." Not quite

The Merneptah Stele—also known as the Israel Stele or the Victory Stele of Merneptah—is an inscription by the ancient Egyptian Pharaoh Merneptah (reign: 1213 to 1203 BC) discovered by Flinders Petrie in 1896 at Thebes, and now housed in the Egyptian Museum in Cairo.
Discovered: 1896
Created: c. 1208 BC
Present location: Egyptian Museum, Cairo

Merneptah Stele - Wikipedia

So, 1,200 BC, 3,219 years ago The Term Israel was used by Egypt when they commemorated a major military victory over them.

Care to tell me again, how "ISRAEL" did not exist 4,000 years ago? If the term "Israel" was used 3,200 years ago in a commemoration of a victory over "Israel" then "Israel" most likely existed as a nation 4,000 years ago.

Here is another quote from that page:

Clues to Israelite presence in Egypt

Conclusively, Semitic slaves there were. However, critics argue there's no archaeological evidence of a Semitic tribe worshiping Yahweh in Egypt.

Because of the muddy conditions of the East Delta, almost no papyri have survived – but those that did, may provide further clues in the search for the lost Israelites.

The papyrus Anastasi VI from around 3200 years ago describes how the Egyptian authorities allowed a group of Semitic nomads from Edom who worshiped Yahweh to pass the border-fortress in the region of Tjeku (Wadi Tumilat) and proceed with their livestock to the lakes of Pithom.

Interestng HUH? So wait, There was a Stele depicting a Military Victory over ISRAEL, 3,200 years ago, and then a Papyrus from 3,200 years ago that talks about Egypt allowing a group of semetic people to Worship Yaweh. So many of these people had to be CAPTIVES of that Military Victory over "ISRAEL"

NOW lets ask if MOSES Existed?

According to the scribe Manetho, the founder of monotheism was Osarisph, who later adopted name Moses, and led his followers out of Egypt in Akhenaten's reign. Akhenaten was the heretic Pharaoh who abolished polytheism and replaced it with monotheism, worshiping only the sun disc, Aten.

In 1987, a team of French archaeologists discovered the tomb of a man named Aper-el or Aperia (his name is spelled both ways in Egyptian inscriptions), commander of the charioteers and vizier to Ahmenotep II and to his son Akhenaten.

The vizier's name ending in -el could well be related to the Hebraic god Elohim; and the ending Aper-Ia could be indicative of Ya, short for Yahweh. This interpretation supports the argument that Hebrews were present in Egypt during the 18th dynasty starting 3,600 years ago (1543-1292 BCE).

So did the Exodus happen? Ask Hatshepsut

Ex. 12:37 says “600,000 men on foot, beside children” went out from Egypt. That extrapolates to around two million people making the exodus (extrapolated from Numbers 1:46) .

If around 2 million people left Egypt, when the entire population has been estimated at around 3 to 4.5 million, it would have been noticed, and would have resounded in Egyptian records.

Note that Herodotus claims that a million Persians invaded Greece in 480 BCE. The numbers were undoubtedly exaggerated, as in most ancient records. But nobody claims the invasion of Greece never happened.

That said, as the Egyptologist Kenneth Kitchen points out, the Hebrew word for thousand, eleph, can mean different things depending upon context. It can even denote a group/clan or a leader/chief. Elsewhere in the bible, "eleph" could not possibly mean "a thousand”. For example: 1 Kings 20:30 mentions a wall falling in Aphek that killed 27,000 men. If we translate eleph as leader, the text more sensibly says that 27 officers were killed by the falling wall. Bv that logic, some scholars propose that the Exodus actually consisted of about 20,000 people.

The absence of evidence of a sojourn in the wilderness proves nothing. A Semitic group in flight wouldn't have left direct evidence: They would not have built cities, built monuments or done anything but leave footprints in the desert sand.

Yet more support for the Haggadah may lie in an interesting poem copied onto a papyrus dating to the 13th century BCE (although original is believed to be much older), called the "Admonitions of Impuwer or the Lord of All").

River of blood

It portrays a devastated Egypt haunted by plagues, droughts, violent uprisings – culminating in the escape of slaves with Egypt's wealth. In short, the Impuwer papyrus seems to be telling the story of Exodus from the Egyptian point of view, from a river of blood to the devastation of the livestock to darkness.

The Stele refers to The Children of Israel.
Israel was Jacob's new name.
There was no Nation of Israel, yet at that time.

Read Genesis, instead of any of these links you are looking at.

That is your interpretation. A Nation can be a genetically homogeneous people like The Cherokee Nation.

You are debating then what you define as a Nation, and The Word Nation.
Not the fact that Israel was a Nation that inhabited The Promised Land for at least 4,000 years that we know of.

Israel then was a Nation, named after Jacob the Grandson of Abraham who passed down his Inheritance of The Promised Land and The Abrahamic Convenant to Issac, Abraham's son, who then passed it on To Jacob, who was named Israel by Yahweh. So The Grandson of Abraham is Israel, and The Children of Israel are a Nation today, and they were a Nation back then.

There is also historical evidence that Israel was in captivity in Egypt as long ago as 3,600 years ago which further reinforces my assertion that Israel has been a Nation for at least 4,000 years.

We can agree to disagree, but Israel has been a Nation according to evidence found in Egypt as long as 3,600 years ago.

So, I am fine with saying Israel has been a Nation for 4,000 years and has occupied what we call Israel for 4,000 years. They have survived numerous attempts at genocidal extermination, and slavery by The Babylonian Empire, Assyrian Empire, Egyptian Empire, Roman Empire, Ottoman Empire, and Nazi Germany and many many more. They will survive the next Holocaust launched by Islam against them, as Yahweh has promised they would.

If they were "just a people" and "not a nation" then how did they survive thousands of years of assaults and attempts at extermination, and enslavement if they were not a Nation, when faced against so many Nations who were so powerful in their day, we called them EMPIRES?

The Promised Land, and The People of Israel have persisted in ISRAEL for 4,000 Years, despite THE GREATEST EMPIRE'S attempts to remove them, and The Land is theirs, and there is no debating that at all. They will persist until the Return of Christ and after that as well.

I am Jewish. I know the history of my people. I know what Genesis says. You have not read it. I have.

I go by what Jewish history says, and not what many links say, which change some of the history a bit, as I have pointed out to you.

Thank you.

 

[The Original Tree]

I have read the Bible Cover to Cover.

Egypt erected a stone Monument 3,200 years ago to commemorate a major military victory over “Israel”

The Egyptian Empire would never honor a loose collection of Hebrews even in defeat with a stone monument commemorating a major military victory over Israel if it was not a Nation worthy of noting such an event on such a monument.

They fought and defeated an Army. The Nation of Israel’s Army.

Egypt wouldn’t bother mentioning such a battle, let alone would they waste their time carving a permanent marker of such an event on a monument if it were not a significant victory over a Rival Nation.

To downplay the idea that Israel was not a Nation that Egypt defeated in battle is like you going over to the next block and beating up a group of little kids and then putting a Billboard in your front yard declaring to your neighborhood what a Warrior you are.

You wouldn’t broadcast that to the world.

They should call themselves Hebrews again.

You are correct to say there were NO ARABS in Israel until around 650 AD when The Roman Empire was dissolving. The Hebrews inhabited Israel long before that. The Babylonian Captivity was a full 1,200 years before that.

Around 4,000 years ago Egypt attacked Israel and led many Jews in to Captivity.


Were Hebrews ever slaves in ancient Egypt? Yes

Starting over 4,000 years ago, Semites began crossing the deserts from Palestine into Egypt. The tomb of the high priest Khnumhotep II of the 20th century BCE even shows a scene of Semitic traders bringing offerings to the dead (top picture).

Some of these Semites came to Egypt as traders and immigrants. Others were prisoners of war, and yet others were sold into slavery by their own people. A papyrus mentions a wealthy Egyptian lord whose 77 slaves included 48 of Semitic origin.

Physical evidence of slaves working there isn't likely to have survived. But a leather scroll dating to the time of Ramesses II (1303 BCE-1213 BCE) describes a close account of brick-making apparently by enslaved prisoners of war from an area that can roughly be deduced to be Israel which sounds very much like the biblical account. The scroll describes 40 taskmasters, each with a daily target of 2,000 bricks (see Exodus 5:6).

I call The Israelis Hebrews, because It was The Hebrews who survived The Babylonian and Assyrian Captivities, and they were called Hebrews initially when Rome began to occupy Israel.

Both The Term Jew....from Judea, and Palestine and Palestinian are Greco Roman Terms given to The Hebrews-Israelis. It is more correct then to call a Jew a Hebrew or an Israeli, and to call their Religion Judaism which is the Roman Term they adopted for their religion when many of them lived in Rome and were 'Helenized'. It is still ok to call a Hebrew, or Israeli a Jew, but when you do so, you are referring then more to their religion than their ethnicity.

IT IS NEVER OK to call a Hebrew-Israeli a Palestinian, nor is it ever OK to call Israel Palestine, as that is actually a Racial Slur similar to calling a Black Man the "N" word.

This is why certain peoples love using the word Palestine, and Palestinian as it is an insult to Jewish Peoples, and it has Racist Undertones, and Racist Overtones.

I am sorry. You may be confusing history of other people with the history of the early Hebrews.

{Around 4,000 years ago Egypt attacked Israel and led many Jews in to Captivity.}

No such thing happened.
4000 years ago, Israel as a Nation did not exist. Abraham had not yet moved to Canaan, and Judaism had not been founded.
The Hebrews, the 12 tribes, became slaves after going to Egypt due to a draught. The whole area of Canaan was controlled by Egypt, then. At first they stayed there as free people, then a Pharaoh decided to enslave them. It is written in Genesis.

You may be answering Jose, so I will leave you to it.

Actually, there is no point in explaining anything to him. His mind is set on denying the Jewish connection to their ancestors and their ancient homeland.

I changed my post to defer to your sensitivity for dotted "i" and crossed 't' to Around 4,000 years ago Egypt attacked The Hebrews living in The Promised Land and led many Hebrews in to Captivity.

All better now?

The reference to 4,000 years ago was a citation from a web page about History. So, my bad, but you can take that up with them.

The Merneptah Stele, which states: "Israel is laid waste, its seed is no more." Not quite

The Merneptah Stele—also known as the Israel Stele or the Victory Stele of Merneptah—is an inscription by the ancient Egyptian Pharaoh Merneptah (reign: 1213 to 1203 BC) discovered by Flinders Petrie in 1896 at Thebes, and now housed in the Egyptian Museum in Cairo.
Discovered: 1896
Created: c. 1208 BC
Present location: Egyptian Museum, Cairo

Merneptah Stele - Wikipedia

So, 1,200 BC, 3,219 years ago The Term Israel was used by Egypt when they commemorated a major military victory over them.

Care to tell me again, how "ISRAEL" did not exist 4,000 years ago? If the term "Israel" was used 3,200 years ago in a commemoration of a victory over "Israel" then "Israel" most likely existed as a nation 4,000 years ago.

Here is another quote from that page:

Clues to Israelite presence in Egypt

Conclusively, Semitic slaves there were. However, critics argue there's no archaeological evidence of a Semitic tribe worshiping Yahweh in Egypt.

Because of the muddy conditions of the East Delta, almost no papyri have survived – but those that did, may provide further clues in the search for the lost Israelites.

The papyrus Anastasi VI from around 3200 years ago describes how the Egyptian authorities allowed a group of Semitic nomads from Edom who worshiped Yahweh to pass the border-fortress in the region of Tjeku (Wadi Tumilat) and proceed with their livestock to the lakes of Pithom.

Interestng HUH? So wait, There was a Stele depicting a Military Victory over ISRAEL, 3,200 years ago, and then a Papyrus from 3,200 years ago that talks about Egypt allowing a group of semetic people to Worship Yaweh. So many of these people had to be CAPTIVES of that Military Victory over "ISRAEL"

NOW lets ask if MOSES Existed?

According to the scribe Manetho, the founder of monotheism was Osarisph, who later adopted name Moses, and led his followers out of Egypt in Akhenaten's reign. Akhenaten was the heretic Pharaoh who abolished polytheism and replaced it with monotheism, worshiping only the sun disc, Aten.

In 1987, a team of French archaeologists discovered the tomb of a man named Aper-el or Aperia (his name is spelled both ways in Egyptian inscriptions), commander of the charioteers and vizier to Ahmenotep II and to his son Akhenaten.

The vizier's name ending in -el could well be related to the Hebraic god Elohim; and the ending Aper-Ia could be indicative of Ya, short for Yahweh. This interpretation supports the argument that Hebrews were present in Egypt during the 18th dynasty starting 3,600 years ago (1543-1292 BCE).

So did the Exodus happen? Ask Hatshepsut

Ex. 12:37 says “600,000 men on foot, beside children” went out from Egypt. That extrapolates to around two million people making the exodus (extrapolated from Numbers 1:46) .

If around 2 million people left Egypt, when the entire population has been estimated at around 3 to 4.5 million, it would have been noticed, and would have resounded in Egyptian records.

Note that Herodotus claims that a million Persians invaded Greece in 480 BCE. The numbers were undoubtedly exaggerated, as in most ancient records. But nobody claims the invasion of Greece never happened.

That said, as the Egyptologist Kenneth Kitchen points out, the Hebrew word for thousand, eleph, can mean different things depending upon context. It can even denote a group/clan or a leader/chief. Elsewhere in the bible, "eleph" could not possibly mean "a thousand”. For example: 1 Kings 20:30 mentions a wall falling in Aphek that killed 27,000 men. If we translate eleph as leader, the text more sensibly says that 27 officers were killed by the falling wall. Bv that logic, some scholars propose that the Exodus actually consisted of about 20,000 people.

The absence of evidence of a sojourn in the wilderness proves nothing. A Semitic group in flight wouldn't have left direct evidence: They would not have built cities, built monuments or done anything but leave footprints in the desert sand.

Yet more support for the Haggadah may lie in an interesting poem copied onto a papyrus dating to the 13th century BCE (although original is believed to be much older), called the "Admonitions of Impuwer or the Lord of All").

River of blood

It portrays a devastated Egypt haunted by plagues, droughts, violent uprisings – culminating in the escape of slaves with Egypt's wealth. In short, the Impuwer papyrus seems to be telling the story of Exodus from the Egyptian point of view, from a river of blood to the devastation of the livestock to darkness.

The Stele refers to The Children of Israel.
Israel was Jacob's new name.
There was no Nation of Israel, yet at that time.

Read Genesis, instead of any of these links you are looking at.

That is your interpretation. A Nation can be a genetically homogeneous people like The Cherokee Nation.

You are debating then what you define as a Nation, and The Word Nation.
Not the fact that Israel was a Nation that inhabited The Promised Land for at least 4,000 years that we know of.

Israel then was a Nation, named after Jacob the Grandson of Abraham who passed down his Inheritance of The Promised Land and The Abrahamic Convenant to Issac, Abraham's son, who then passed it on To Jacob, who was named Israel by Yahweh. So The Grandson of Abraham is Israel, and The Children of Israel are a Nation today, and they were a Nation back then.

There is also historical evidence that Israel was in captivity in Egypt as long ago as 3,600 years ago which further reinforces my assertion that Israel has been a Nation for at least 4,000 years.

We can agree to disagree, but Israel has been a Nation according to evidence found in Egypt as long as 3,600 years ago.

So, I am fine with saying Israel has been a Nation for 4,000 years and has occupied what we call Israel for 4,000 years. They have survived numerous attempts at genocidal extermination, and slavery by The Babylonian Empire, Assyrian Empire, Egyptian Empire, Roman Empire, Ottoman Empire, and Nazi Germany and many many more. They will survive the next Holocaust launched by Islam against them, as Yahweh has promised they would.

If they were "just a people" and "not a nation" then how did they survive thousands of years of assaults and attempts at extermination, and enslavement if they were not a Nation, when faced against so many Nations who were so powerful in their day, we called them EMPIRES?

The Promised Land, and The People of Israel have persisted in ISRAEL for 4,000 Years, despite THE GREATEST EMPIRE'S attempts to remove them, and The Land is theirs, and there is no debating that at all. They will persist until the Return of Christ and after that as well.

I am Jewish. I know the history of my people. I know what Genesis says. You have not read it. I have.

I go by what Jewish history says, and not what many links say, which change some of the history a bit, as I have pointed out to you.

Thank you.

 

[Sixties Fan]

I have read the Bible Cover to Cover.

Egypt erected a stone Monument 3,200 years ago to commemorate a major military victory over “Israel”

The Egyptian Empire would never honor a loose collection of Hebrews even in defeat with a stone monument commemorating a major military victory over Israel if it was not a Nation worthy of noting such an event on such a monument.

They fought and defeated an Army. The Nation of Israel’s Army.

Egypt wouldn’t bother mentioning such a battle, let alone would they waste their time carving a permanent marker of such an event on a monument if it were not a significant victory over a Rival Nation.

To downplay the idea that Israel was not a Nation that Egypt defeated in battle is like you going over to the next block and beating up a group of little kids and then putting a Billboard in your front yard declaring to your neighborhood what a Warrior you are.

You wouldn’t broadcast that to the world.

I am sorry. You may be confusing history of other people with the history of the early Hebrews.

{Around 4,000 years ago Egypt attacked Israel and led many Jews in to Captivity.}

No such thing happened.
4000 years ago, Israel as a Nation did not exist. Abraham had not yet moved to Canaan, and Judaism had not been founded.
The Hebrews, the 12 tribes, became slaves after going to Egypt due to a draught. The whole area of Canaan was controlled by Egypt, then. At first they stayed there as free people, then a Pharaoh decided to enslave them. It is written in Genesis.

You may be answering Jose, so I will leave you to it.

Actually, there is no point in explaining anything to him. His mind is set on denying the Jewish connection to their ancestors and their ancient homeland.

I changed my post to defer to your sensitivity for dotted "i" and crossed 't' to Around 4,000 years ago Egypt attacked The Hebrews living in The Promised Land and led many Hebrews in to Captivity.

All better now?

The reference to 4,000 years ago was a citation from a web page about History. So, my bad, but you can take that up with them.

The Merneptah Stele, which states: "Israel is laid waste, its seed is no more." Not quite

The Merneptah Stele—also known as the Israel Stele or the Victory Stele of Merneptah—is an inscription by the ancient Egyptian Pharaoh Merneptah (reign: 1213 to 1203 BC) discovered by Flinders Petrie in 1896 at Thebes, and now housed in the Egyptian Museum in Cairo.
Discovered: 1896
Created: c. 1208 BC
Present location: Egyptian Museum, Cairo

Merneptah Stele - Wikipedia

So, 1,200 BC, 3,219 years ago The Term Israel was used by Egypt when they commemorated a major military victory over them.

Care to tell me again, how "ISRAEL" did not exist 4,000 years ago? If the term "Israel" was used 3,200 years ago in a commemoration of a victory over "Israel" then "Israel" most likely existed as a nation 4,000 years ago.

Here is another quote from that page:

Clues to Israelite presence in Egypt

Conclusively, Semitic slaves there were. However, critics argue there's no archaeological evidence of a Semitic tribe worshiping Yahweh in Egypt.

Because of the muddy conditions of the East Delta, almost no papyri have survived – but those that did, may provide further clues in the search for the lost Israelites.

The papyrus Anastasi VI from around 3200 years ago describes how the Egyptian authorities allowed a group of Semitic nomads from Edom who worshiped Yahweh to pass the border-fortress in the region of Tjeku (Wadi Tumilat) and proceed with their livestock to the lakes of Pithom.

Interestng HUH? So wait, There was a Stele depicting a Military Victory over ISRAEL, 3,200 years ago, and then a Papyrus from 3,200 years ago that talks about Egypt allowing a group of semetic people to Worship Yaweh. So many of these people had to be CAPTIVES of that Military Victory over "ISRAEL"

NOW lets ask if MOSES Existed?

According to the scribe Manetho, the founder of monotheism was Osarisph, who later adopted name Moses, and led his followers out of Egypt in Akhenaten's reign. Akhenaten was the heretic Pharaoh who abolished polytheism and replaced it with monotheism, worshiping only the sun disc, Aten.

In 1987, a team of French archaeologists discovered the tomb of a man named Aper-el or Aperia (his name is spelled both ways in Egyptian inscriptions), commander of the charioteers and vizier to Ahmenotep II and to his son Akhenaten.

The vizier's name ending in -el could well be related to the Hebraic god Elohim; and the ending Aper-Ia could be indicative of Ya, short for Yahweh. This interpretation supports the argument that Hebrews were present in Egypt during the 18th dynasty starting 3,600 years ago (1543-1292 BCE).

So did the Exodus happen? Ask Hatshepsut

Ex. 12:37 says “600,000 men on foot, beside children” went out from Egypt. That extrapolates to around two million people making the exodus (extrapolated from Numbers 1:46) .

If around 2 million people left Egypt, when the entire population has been estimated at around 3 to 4.5 million, it would have been noticed, and would have resounded in Egyptian records.

Note that Herodotus claims that a million Persians invaded Greece in 480 BCE. The numbers were undoubtedly exaggerated, as in most ancient records. But nobody claims the invasion of Greece never happened.

That said, as the Egyptologist Kenneth Kitchen points out, the Hebrew word for thousand, eleph, can mean different things depending upon context. It can even denote a group/clan or a leader/chief. Elsewhere in the bible, "eleph" could not possibly mean "a thousand”. For example: 1 Kings 20:30 mentions a wall falling in Aphek that killed 27,000 men. If we translate eleph as leader, the text more sensibly says that 27 officers were killed by the falling wall. Bv that logic, some scholars propose that the Exodus actually consisted of about 20,000 people.

The absence of evidence of a sojourn in the wilderness proves nothing. A Semitic group in flight wouldn't have left direct evidence: They would not have built cities, built monuments or done anything but leave footprints in the desert sand.

Yet more support for the Haggadah may lie in an interesting poem copied onto a papyrus dating to the 13th century BCE (although original is believed to be much older), called the "Admonitions of Impuwer or the Lord of All").

River of blood

It portrays a devastated Egypt haunted by plagues, droughts, violent uprisings – culminating in the escape of slaves with Egypt's wealth. In short, the Impuwer papyrus seems to be telling the story of Exodus from the Egyptian point of view, from a river of blood to the devastation of the livestock to darkness.

The Stele refers to The Children of Israel.
Israel was Jacob's new name.
There was no Nation of Israel, yet at that time.

Read Genesis, instead of any of these links you are looking at.

That is your interpretation. A Nation can be a genetically homogeneous people like The Cherokee Nation.

You are debating then what you define as a Nation, and The Word Nation.
Not the fact that Israel was a Nation that inhabited The Promised Land for at least 4,000 years that we know of.

Israel then was a Nation, named after Jacob the Grandson of Abraham who passed down his Inheritance of The Promised Land and The Abrahamic Convenant to Issac, Abraham's son, who then passed it on To Jacob, who was named Israel by Yahweh. So The Grandson of Abraham is Israel, and The Children of Israel are a Nation today, and they were a Nation back then.

There is also historical evidence that Israel was in captivity in Egypt as long ago as 3,600 years ago which further reinforces my assertion that Israel has been a Nation for at least 4,000 years.

We can agree to disagree, but Israel has been a Nation according to evidence found in Egypt as long as 3,600 years ago.

So, I am fine with saying Israel has been a Nation for 4,000 years and has occupied what we call Israel for 4,000 years. They have survived numerous attempts at genocidal extermination, and slavery by The Babylonian Empire, Assyrian Empire, Egyptian Empire, Roman Empire, Ottoman Empire, and Nazi Germany and many many more. They will survive the next Holocaust launched by Islam against them, as Yahweh has promised they would.

If they were "just a people" and "not a nation" then how did they survive thousands of years of assaults and attempts at extermination, and enslavement if they were not a Nation, when faced against so many Nations who were so powerful in their day, we called them EMPIRES?

The Promised Land, and The People of Israel have persisted in ISRAEL for 4,000 Years, despite THE GREATEST EMPIRE'S attempts to remove them, and The Land is theirs, and there is no debating that at all. They will persist until the Return of Christ and after that as well.

I am Jewish. I know the history of my people. I know what Genesis says. You have not read it. I have.

I go by what Jewish history says, and not what many links say, which change some of the history a bit, as I have pointed out to you.

Thank you.

The invasion on the Kingdom of Israel by an Egyptian Pharaoh is off by about 300 years.

• 925 BC – Sack of Jerusalem (925 BC) – Pharaoh Sheshonk I of the Third Intermediate Period invades Canaan following the Battle of Bitter Lakes. Possibly the same as Shishak, the Pharaoh mentioned in the Bible in the book of Kings 1, who captured and pillaged Jerusalem (1 Kings 14: 25).

Timeline of the history of the region of Palestine - Wikipedia

 

[The Original Tree]

I wonder if they executed the huckster who carved that monument commemorating a major military victory of The Egyptian Empire over The Nation of Israel a full 300 years earlier 3,200 years ago?

You do realize that Egypt had numerous wars and batttles with Israel, right?

That’s what rival nations do. Especially in Ancient Times.

Let me ask you a question:

With all The Empires and Nations who have tried to Exterminate Israel for the last 4,000 years continually, bind them in captivity, attempt to Erase them from History, deny them their birthright, deny them The Promised Land, Deny them The Abrahamic Covenant, and yet they are still here.....

Why is The Nation of Israel called a “Cup of Trembling for Many Nations”?


Zechariah 12:2

“Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.”

12-3

“And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.”

I have read the Bible Cover to Cover.

Egypt erected a stone Monument 3,200 years ago to commemorate a major military victory over “Israel”

The Egyptian Empire would never honor a loose collection of Hebrews even in defeat with a stone monument commemorating a major military victory over Israel if it was not a Nation worthy of noting such an event on such a monument.

They fought and defeated an Army. The Nation of Israel’s Army.

Egypt wouldn’t bother mentioning such a battle, let alone would they waste their time carving a permanent marker of such an event on a monument if it were not a significant victory over a Rival Nation.

To downplay the idea that Israel was not a Nation that Egypt defeated in battle is like you going over to the next block and beating up a group of little kids and then putting a Billboard in your front yard declaring to your neighborhood what a Warrior you are.

You wouldn’t broadcast that to the world.

I changed my post to defer to your sensitivity for dotted "i" and crossed 't' to Around 4,000 years ago Egypt attacked The Hebrews living in The Promised Land and led many Hebrews in to Captivity.

All better now?

The reference to 4,000 years ago was a citation from a web page about History. So, my bad, but you can take that up with them.

The Merneptah Stele, which states: "Israel is laid waste, its seed is no more." Not quite

The Merneptah Stele—also known as the Israel Stele or the Victory Stele of Merneptah—is an inscription by the ancient Egyptian Pharaoh Merneptah (reign: 1213 to 1203 BC) discovered by Flinders Petrie in 1896 at Thebes, and now housed in the Egyptian Museum in Cairo.
Discovered: 1896
Created: c. 1208 BC
Present location: Egyptian Museum, Cairo

Merneptah Stele - Wikipedia

So, 1,200 BC, 3,219 years ago The Term Israel was used by Egypt when they commemorated a major military victory over them.

Care to tell me again, how "ISRAEL" did not exist 4,000 years ago? If the term "Israel" was used 3,200 years ago in a commemoration of a victory over "Israel" then "Israel" most likely existed as a nation 4,000 years ago.

Here is another quote from that page:

Clues to Israelite presence in Egypt

Conclusively, Semitic slaves there were. However, critics argue there's no archaeological evidence of a Semitic tribe worshiping Yahweh in Egypt.

Because of the muddy conditions of the East Delta, almost no papyri have survived – but those that did, may provide further clues in the search for the lost Israelites.

The papyrus Anastasi VI from around 3200 years ago describes how the Egyptian authorities allowed a group of Semitic nomads from Edom who worshiped Yahweh to pass the border-fortress in the region of Tjeku (Wadi Tumilat) and proceed with their livestock to the lakes of Pithom.

Interestng HUH? So wait, There was a Stele depicting a Military Victory over ISRAEL, 3,200 years ago, and then a Papyrus from 3,200 years ago that talks about Egypt allowing a group of semetic people to Worship Yaweh. So many of these people had to be CAPTIVES of that Military Victory over "ISRAEL"

NOW lets ask if MOSES Existed?

According to the scribe Manetho, the founder of monotheism was Osarisph, who later adopted name Moses, and led his followers out of Egypt in Akhenaten's reign. Akhenaten was the heretic Pharaoh who abolished polytheism and replaced it with monotheism, worshiping only the sun disc, Aten.

In 1987, a team of French archaeologists discovered the tomb of a man named Aper-el or Aperia (his name is spelled both ways in Egyptian inscriptions), commander of the charioteers and vizier to Ahmenotep II and to his son Akhenaten.

The vizier's name ending in -el could well be related to the Hebraic god Elohim; and the ending Aper-Ia could be indicative of Ya, short for Yahweh. This interpretation supports the argument that Hebrews were present in Egypt during the 18th dynasty starting 3,600 years ago (1543-1292 BCE).

So did the Exodus happen? Ask Hatshepsut

Ex. 12:37 says “600,000 men on foot, beside children” went out from Egypt. That extrapolates to around two million people making the exodus (extrapolated from Numbers 1:46) .

If around 2 million people left Egypt, when the entire population has been estimated at around 3 to 4.5 million, it would have been noticed, and would have resounded in Egyptian records.

Note that Herodotus claims that a million Persians invaded Greece in 480 BCE. The numbers were undoubtedly exaggerated, as in most ancient records. But nobody claims the invasion of Greece never happened.

That said, as the Egyptologist Kenneth Kitchen points out, the Hebrew word for thousand, eleph, can mean different things depending upon context. It can even denote a group/clan or a leader/chief. Elsewhere in the bible, "eleph" could not possibly mean "a thousand”. For example: 1 Kings 20:30 mentions a wall falling in Aphek that killed 27,000 men. If we translate eleph as leader, the text more sensibly says that 27 officers were killed by the falling wall. Bv that logic, some scholars propose that the Exodus actually consisted of about 20,000 people.

The absence of evidence of a sojourn in the wilderness proves nothing. A Semitic group in flight wouldn't have left direct evidence: They would not have built cities, built monuments or done anything but leave footprints in the desert sand.

Yet more support for the Haggadah may lie in an interesting poem copied onto a papyrus dating to the 13th century BCE (although original is believed to be much older), called the "Admonitions of Impuwer or the Lord of All").

River of blood

It portrays a devastated Egypt haunted by plagues, droughts, violent uprisings – culminating in the escape of slaves with Egypt's wealth. In short, the Impuwer papyrus seems to be telling the story of Exodus from the Egyptian point of view, from a river of blood to the devastation of the livestock to darkness.

The Stele refers to The Children of Israel.
Israel was Jacob's new name.
There was no Nation of Israel, yet at that time.

Read Genesis, instead of any of these links you are looking at.

That is your interpretation. A Nation can be a genetically homogeneous people like The Cherokee Nation.

You are debating then what you define as a Nation, and The Word Nation.
Not the fact that Israel was a Nation that inhabited The Promised Land for at least 4,000 years that we know of.

Israel then was a Nation, named after Jacob the Grandson of Abraham who passed down his Inheritance of The Promised Land and The Abrahamic Convenant to Issac, Abraham's son, who then passed it on To Jacob, who was named Israel by Yahweh. So The Grandson of Abraham is Israel, and The Children of Israel are a Nation today, and they were a Nation back then.

There is also historical evidence that Israel was in captivity in Egypt as long ago as 3,600 years ago which further reinforces my assertion that Israel has been a Nation for at least 4,000 years.

We can agree to disagree, but Israel has been a Nation according to evidence found in Egypt as long as 3,600 years ago.

So, I am fine with saying Israel has been a Nation for 4,000 years and has occupied what we call Israel for 4,000 years. They have survived numerous attempts at genocidal extermination, and slavery by The Babylonian Empire, Assyrian Empire, Egyptian Empire, Roman Empire, Ottoman Empire, and Nazi Germany and many many more. They will survive the next Holocaust launched by Islam against them, as Yahweh has promised they would.

If they were "just a people" and "not a nation" then how did they survive thousands of years of assaults and attempts at extermination, and enslavement if they were not a Nation, when faced against so many Nations who were so powerful in their day, we called them EMPIRES?

The Promised Land, and The People of Israel have persisted in ISRAEL for 4,000 Years, despite THE GREATEST EMPIRE'S attempts to remove them, and The Land is theirs, and there is no debating that at all. They will persist until the Return of Christ and after that as well.

I am Jewish. I know the history of my people. I know what Genesis says. You have not read it. I have.

I go by what Jewish history says, and not what many links say, which change some of the history a bit, as I have pointed out to you.

Thank you.

The invasion on the Kingdom of Israel by an Egyptian Pharaoh is off by about 300 years.

• 925 BC – Sack of Jerusalem (925 BC) – Pharaoh Sheshonk I of the Third Intermediate Period invades Canaan following the Battle of Bitter Lakes. Possibly the same as Shishak, the Pharaoh mentioned in the Bible in the book of Kings 1, who captured and pillaged Jerusalem (1 Kings 14: 25).

Timeline of the history of the region of Palestine - Wikipedia

 

[Shusha]

The Original Tree

You are adding a lot of your own personal interpretations to ancient monuments and papyri not actually present in the writings of the monuments and papyri themselves.

 

[Sixties Fan]

While Arabs from the Arabian Peninsula traveled to Egypt, the bulk of Semites coming there in ancient times were not of that origin–regardless of wishful thinking by espousers of the Winckler-Caetani Theory–which, among other things, makes Babylonians, Canaanites, Assyrians, Hebrews, and others all Arabs as well…like those Cathy is dealing with, assert.

Given that Abraham (son of a Babylonian Chaldean Semite), surfaced in history when he did, coincidental with the Semitic Hyksos conquest of Egypt, Hagar was most likely a native non-Semitic or Semitic Hyksos Egyptian. She was not likely Arab–so neither was her son, Ishmael.

Furthermore, when the Jews made reference to Arabs–in the few places where they did–they were not shy to call them that.

So, for example, Geshem the Arab appears in Nehemiah 2:19 and 6:1-6. He was recorded as one of the three leaders opposing the Jews rebuilding the Temple after their return from Babylonian exile upon being freed by ancient Iran’s Cyrus the Great (not exactly the Ayatollah’s ideal Persian leader, if you get my drift)…

In short, if Hagar was an Arab, the Jews would have had no reason not to say so. She wasn’t–so neither was Ishmael, the half brother of Abraham’s Hebrew son with Sarah, Isaac, whom Arabs sought/seek to supplant.

After the Arab imperial conquest of Egypt and much of the rest of the region some twenty-seven centuries since the time of Abraham, it was convenient for Arabs to then write themselves into the original Hebraic story in the Jews’ sacred writings. Adding insult to injury, they next claimed that both Jews and Christians corrupted the original version.

(full article online)

The myth of the non-Jewish Abraham

 

[The Original Tree]

I'll take Genetics for $5,000 Alex.

The Bible says Ishmael, and Isaac were half brothers. Therefore Israel and Arabs according to the Bible are the offspring of Abraham.

Genetics say That Jews and Arabs have the same Paternal Ancestor.

I assert that I am correct in stating The Arab-Jew Conflict is a Sibling Rivalry with Arabs wanting The Birthright, "The Promised Land" & "The Abrahamic Covenant" that was inherited by Jacob-Israel and given to them by Yahweh.

Are you sure you are a Jew?

Thanks for playing.

Jews and Arabs Share Recent Ancestry
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2000/10/jews-and-arabs-share-recent-ancestry

Jews Are The Genetic Brothers Of Palestinians, Syrians, And Lebanese

Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes

Jewish religion and culture can be traced back to Semitic tribes that lived in the Middle East approximately 4,000 years ago. The Babylonian exile in 586 B.C. marked the beginning of major dispersals of Jewish populations from the Middle East and the development of various Jewish communities outside of present-day Israel (1).

In summary the combined results suggest that a major portion of NRY biallelic diversity present in most of the contemporary Jewish communities surveyed here traces to a common Middle Eastern source population several thousand years ago.

The implication is that this source population included a large number of distinct paternal and maternal lineages, reflecting genetic variation established in the Middle East at that time. In turn, this source diversity has been maintained within Jewish communities, despite numerous migrations during the Diaspora and long-term residence as isolated subpopulations in numerous geographic locations outside of the Middle East.


You never answered my question about why Israel - Jerusalem is a "Cup of Trembling for Many Nations."

You claimed to have read The Bible, yet had no desire to comment on that. Have you read much on The Book of Zechariah? Especially Chapters 11-14.

 

[Sixties Fan]

I'll take Genetics for $5,000 Alex.

The Bible says Ishmael, and Isaac were half brothers. Therefore Israel and Arabs according to the Bible are the offspring of Abraham.

Genetics say That Jews and Arabs have the same Paternal Ancestor.

I assert that I am correct in stating The Arab-Jew Conflict is a Sibling Rivalry with Arabs wanting The Birthright, "The Promised Land" & "The Abrahamic Covenant" that was inherited by Jacob-Israel and given to them by Yahweh.

Are you sure you are a Jew?

Thanks for playing.

Jews and Arabs Share Recent Ancestry
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2000/10/jews-and-arabs-share-recent-ancestry

Jews Are The Genetic Brothers Of Palestinians, Syrians, And Lebanese

Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes

Jewish religion and culture can be traced back to Semitic tribes that lived in the Middle East approximately 4,000 years ago. The Babylonian exile in 586 B.C. marked the beginning of major dispersals of Jewish populations from the Middle East and the development of various Jewish communities outside of present-day Israel (1).

In summary the combined results suggest that a major portion of NRY biallelic diversity present in most of the contemporary Jewish communities surveyed here traces to a common Middle Eastern source population several thousand years ago.

The implication is that this source population included a large number of distinct paternal and maternal lineages, reflecting genetic variation established in the Middle East at that time. In turn, this source diversity has been maintained within Jewish communities, despite numerous migrations during the Diaspora and long-term residence as isolated subpopulations in numerous geographic locations outside of the Middle East.


You never answered my question about why Israel - Jerusalem is a "Cup of Trembling for Many Nations."

You claimed to have read The Bible, yet had no desire to comment on that. Have you read much on The Book of Zechariah? Especially Chapters 11-14.

Thank you for changing Ishmael's origins from being Egyptian to being an Arab, which is something Islam has been doing for 1400 years.

Never mind......that the Arabs kept quiet for 2400 years before Islam was created because they never heard of Ishmael, and much less could care about him, Abraham, Jews, etc.

Keep your religious beliefs, we shall keep our history intact the way it has been for the past 3800 years, before Christians and Muslims decided to borrow, steal and then try to kill all Jews in order for their versions to be the valid ones.

 

[The Original Tree]

I'll take Genetics for $5,000 Alex.

The Bible says Ishmael, and Isaac were half brothers. Therefore Israel and Arabs according to the Bible are the offspring of Abraham.

Genetics say That Jews and Arabs have the same Paternal Ancestor.

I assert that I am correct in stating The Arab-Jew Conflict is a Sibling Rivalry with Arabs wanting The Birthright, "The Promised Land" & "The Abrahamic Covenant" that was inherited by Jacob-Israel and given to them by Yahweh.

Are you sure you are a Jew?

Thanks for playing.

Jews and Arabs Share Recent Ancestry
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2000/10/jews-and-arabs-share-recent-ancestry

Jews Are The Genetic Brothers Of Palestinians, Syrians, And Lebanese

Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes

Jewish religion and culture can be traced back to Semitic tribes that lived in the Middle East approximately 4,000 years ago. The Babylonian exile in 586 B.C. marked the beginning of major dispersals of Jewish populations from the Middle East and the development of various Jewish communities outside of present-day Israel (1).

In summary the combined results suggest that a major portion of NRY biallelic diversity present in most of the contemporary Jewish communities surveyed here traces to a common Middle Eastern source population several thousand years ago.

The implication is that this source population included a large number of distinct paternal and maternal lineages, reflecting genetic variation established in the Middle East at that time. In turn, this source diversity has been maintained within Jewish communities, despite numerous migrations during the Diaspora and long-term residence as isolated subpopulations in numerous geographic locations outside of the Middle East.


You never answered my question about why Israel - Jerusalem is a "Cup of Trembling for Many Nations."

You claimed to have read The Bible, yet had no desire to comment on that. Have you read much on The Book of Zechariah? Especially Chapters 11-14.

Thank you for changing Ishmael's origins from being Egyptian to being an Arab, which is something Islam has been doing for 1400 years.

Never mind......that the Arabs kept quiet for 2400 years before Islam was created because they never heard of Ishmael, and much less could care about him, Abraham, Jews, etc.

Keep your religious beliefs, we shall keep our history intact the way it has been for the past 3800 years, before Christians and Muslims decided to borrow, steal and then try to kill all Jews in order for their versions to be the valid ones.

Ishmael can be both Egyptian and Arab since there were Arabs in Egypt. Egypt is a place more than it is an ethnicity. Jesus and his family spent around 20 years in Egypt, So.....Is Messiah, Egyptian or Jewish? He is The Lion of The Tribe of Judah. He is Jewish, Hebrew, or Israeli. However you would like to put it.

It really doesn't matter if Ishmael is Egyptian or Arab, because Ishmael is not part of The Abrahamic Covenant. Does not have any claim to The Promised Land. I was only trying to show that there is evidence that The Bible is True, when it says That Ishmael is The Half Brother of Isaac, who begot Jacob, whom God named Israel which makes the Arab - Jew conflict a matter of The Arabs trying to steal Jacob's - Israel's birth right which is The Promised Land and Abrahamic Covenant with Yahweh.

And it's been established that The Hebrews-Jews have occupied The Promised Land for the last 4,000 years, so in that context, Arabs also again, have no claim to The Promised Land as defined by The Abrahamic Covenant.

 

[Sixties Fan]

I'll take Genetics for $5,000 Alex.

The Bible says Ishmael, and Isaac were half brothers. Therefore Israel and Arabs according to the Bible are the offspring of Abraham.

Genetics say That Jews and Arabs have the same Paternal Ancestor.

I assert that I am correct in stating The Arab-Jew Conflict is a Sibling Rivalry with Arabs wanting The Birthright, "The Promised Land" & "The Abrahamic Covenant" that was inherited by Jacob-Israel and given to them by Yahweh.

Are you sure you are a Jew?

Thanks for playing.

Jews and Arabs Share Recent Ancestry
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2000/10/jews-and-arabs-share-recent-ancestry

Jews Are The Genetic Brothers Of Palestinians, Syrians, And Lebanese

Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes

Jewish religion and culture can be traced back to Semitic tribes that lived in the Middle East approximately 4,000 years ago. The Babylonian exile in 586 B.C. marked the beginning of major dispersals of Jewish populations from the Middle East and the development of various Jewish communities outside of present-day Israel (1).

In summary the combined results suggest that a major portion of NRY biallelic diversity present in most of the contemporary Jewish communities surveyed here traces to a common Middle Eastern source population several thousand years ago.

The implication is that this source population included a large number of distinct paternal and maternal lineages, reflecting genetic variation established in the Middle East at that time. In turn, this source diversity has been maintained within Jewish communities, despite numerous migrations during the Diaspora and long-term residence as isolated subpopulations in numerous geographic locations outside of the Middle East.


You never answered my question about why Israel - Jerusalem is a "Cup of Trembling for Many Nations."

You claimed to have read The Bible, yet had no desire to comment on that. Have you read much on The Book of Zechariah? Especially Chapters 11-14.

Thank you for changing Ishmael's origins from being Egyptian to being an Arab, which is something Islam has been doing for 1400 years.

Never mind......that the Arabs kept quiet for 2400 years before Islam was created because they never heard of Ishmael, and much less could care about him, Abraham, Jews, etc.

Keep your religious beliefs, we shall keep our history intact the way it has been for the past 3800 years, before Christians and Muslims decided to borrow, steal and then try to kill all Jews in order for their versions to be the valid ones.

Ishmael can be both Egyptian and Arab since there were Arabs in Egypt. Egypt is a place more than it is an ethnicity. Jesus and his family spent around 20 years in Egypt, So.....Is Messiah, Egyptian or Jewish? He is The Lion of The Tribe of Judah. He is Jewish, Hebrew, or Israeli. However you would like to put it.

It really doesn't matter if Ishmael is Egyptian or Arab, because Ishmael is not part of The Abrahamic Covenant. Does not have any claim to The Promised Land.

And it's been established that The Hebrews-Jews have occupied The Promised Land for the last 4,000 years.

Jesus and his family spent 20 years ....where?
Ishmael is what?

Everything a sick mind like yours decides to change or interpret in order to undo Judaism does MATTER. Always.

It is like saying that the First Nations are not the First Nations of the Americas and that there was a population there before them and they invaded and took over, no matter that there is no proof of it. Or changing each and every history of those 500 Nations as if they have no rights and no say about it.

You have really NOT read the Torah, nor the NT, or you would not be posting such idiotic things as true, hoping that none of us ever read or knows anything about the Torah or the NT.

You are totally delusional, and very dangerous, like so many who want to wipe out Jewish history and turn it into their own playground where nobody and nothing matters because it is their "interpretation" of things past.

 

[The Original Tree]

I'll take Genetics for $5,000 Alex.

The Bible says Ishmael, and Isaac were half brothers. Therefore Israel and Arabs according to the Bible are the offspring of Abraham.

Genetics say That Jews and Arabs have the same Paternal Ancestor.

I assert that I am correct in stating The Arab-Jew Conflict is a Sibling Rivalry with Arabs wanting The Birthright, "The Promised Land" & "The Abrahamic Covenant" that was inherited by Jacob-Israel and given to them by Yahweh.

Are you sure you are a Jew?

Thanks for playing.

Jews and Arabs Share Recent Ancestry
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2000/10/jews-and-arabs-share-recent-ancestry

Jews Are The Genetic Brothers Of Palestinians, Syrians, And Lebanese

Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes

Jewish religion and culture can be traced back to Semitic tribes that lived in the Middle East approximately 4,000 years ago. The Babylonian exile in 586 B.C. marked the beginning of major dispersals of Jewish populations from the Middle East and the development of various Jewish communities outside of present-day Israel (1).

In summary the combined results suggest that a major portion of NRY biallelic diversity present in most of the contemporary Jewish communities surveyed here traces to a common Middle Eastern source population several thousand years ago.

The implication is that this source population included a large number of distinct paternal and maternal lineages, reflecting genetic variation established in the Middle East at that time. In turn, this source diversity has been maintained within Jewish communities, despite numerous migrations during the Diaspora and long-term residence as isolated subpopulations in numerous geographic locations outside of the Middle East.


You never answered my question about why Israel - Jerusalem is a "Cup of Trembling for Many Nations."

You claimed to have read The Bible, yet had no desire to comment on that. Have you read much on The Book of Zechariah? Especially Chapters 11-14.

Thank you for changing Ishmael's origins from being Egyptian to being an Arab, which is something Islam has been doing for 1400 years.

Never mind......that the Arabs kept quiet for 2400 years before Islam was created because they never heard of Ishmael, and much less could care about him, Abraham, Jews, etc.

Keep your religious beliefs, we shall keep our history intact the way it has been for the past 3800 years, before Christians and Muslims decided to borrow, steal and then try to kill all Jews in order for their versions to be the valid ones.

Ishmael can be both Egyptian and Arab since there were Arabs in Egypt. Egypt is a place more than it is an ethnicity. Jesus and his family spent around 20 years in Egypt, So.....Is Messiah, Egyptian or Jewish? He is The Lion of The Tribe of Judah. He is Jewish, Hebrew, or Israeli. However you would like to put it.

It really doesn't matter if Ishmael is Egyptian or Arab, because Ishmael is not part of The Abrahamic Covenant. Does not have any claim to The Promised Land.

And it's been established that The Hebrews-Jews have occupied The Promised Land for the last 4,000 years.

Jesus and his family spent 20 years ....where?
Ishmael is what?

Everything a sick mind like yours decides to change or interpret in order to undo Judaism does MATTER. Always.

It is like saying that the First Nations are not the First Nations of the Americas and that there was a population there before them and they invaded and took over, no matter that there is no proof of it. Or changing each and every history of those 500 Nations as if they have no rights and no say about it.

You have really NOT read the Torah, nor the NT, or you would not be posting such idiotic things as true, hoping that none of us ever read or knows anything about the Torah or the NT.

You are totally delusional, and very dangerous, like so many who want to wipe out Jewish history and turn it into their own playground where nobody and nothing matters because it is their "interpretation" of things past.

I have read The Pentateuch and New Testament, and I not only read them, I studied them, studied Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic in reference to certain phrases and words in both The Old Testament and New Testament.

Why do you refuse to discuss The Book of Zacharia?

I do not want to wipe out Jewish History. I want to defend Israel's right to The Promise Land. It can be proven they are genetically and historically tied to Israel for about the last 4,000 years. It can be shown they Sojourned in Egypt, just like The Bible states they did.

I am affirming Jewish History, not denying it.

Why don't you want to answer my question about The Book of Zacharia?

 

[Sixties Fan]

I'll take Genetics for $5,000 Alex.

The Bible says Ishmael, and Isaac were half brothers. Therefore Israel and Arabs according to the Bible are the offspring of Abraham.

Genetics say That Jews and Arabs have the same Paternal Ancestor.

I assert that I am correct in stating The Arab-Jew Conflict is a Sibling Rivalry with Arabs wanting The Birthright, "The Promised Land" & "The Abrahamic Covenant" that was inherited by Jacob-Israel and given to them by Yahweh.

Are you sure you are a Jew?

Thanks for playing.

Jews and Arabs Share Recent Ancestry
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2000/10/jews-and-arabs-share-recent-ancestry

Jews Are The Genetic Brothers Of Palestinians, Syrians, And Lebanese

Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes

Jewish religion and culture can be traced back to Semitic tribes that lived in the Middle East approximately 4,000 years ago. The Babylonian exile in 586 B.C. marked the beginning of major dispersals of Jewish populations from the Middle East and the development of various Jewish communities outside of present-day Israel (1).

In summary the combined results suggest that a major portion of NRY biallelic diversity present in most of the contemporary Jewish communities surveyed here traces to a common Middle Eastern source population several thousand years ago.

The implication is that this source population included a large number of distinct paternal and maternal lineages, reflecting genetic variation established in the Middle East at that time. In turn, this source diversity has been maintained within Jewish communities, despite numerous migrations during the Diaspora and long-term residence as isolated subpopulations in numerous geographic locations outside of the Middle East.


You never answered my question about why Israel - Jerusalem is a "Cup of Trembling for Many Nations."

You claimed to have read The Bible, yet had no desire to comment on that. Have you read much on The Book of Zechariah? Especially Chapters 11-14.

Thank you for changing Ishmael's origins from being Egyptian to being an Arab, which is something Islam has been doing for 1400 years.

Never mind......that the Arabs kept quiet for 2400 years before Islam was created because they never heard of Ishmael, and much less could care about him, Abraham, Jews, etc.

Keep your religious beliefs, we shall keep our history intact the way it has been for the past 3800 years, before Christians and Muslims decided to borrow, steal and then try to kill all Jews in order for their versions to be the valid ones.

Ishmael can be both Egyptian and Arab since there were Arabs in Egypt. Egypt is a place more than it is an ethnicity. Jesus and his family spent around 20 years in Egypt, So.....Is Messiah, Egyptian or Jewish? He is The Lion of The Tribe of Judah. He is Jewish, Hebrew, or Israeli. However you would like to put it.

It really doesn't matter if Ishmael is Egyptian or Arab, because Ishmael is not part of The Abrahamic Covenant. Does not have any claim to The Promised Land.

And it's been established that The Hebrews-Jews have occupied The Promised Land for the last 4,000 years.

Jesus and his family spent 20 years ....where?
Ishmael is what?

Everything a sick mind like yours decides to change or interpret in order to undo Judaism does MATTER. Always.

It is like saying that the First Nations are not the First Nations of the Americas and that there was a population there before them and they invaded and took over, no matter that there is no proof of it. Or changing each and every history of those 500 Nations as if they have no rights and no say about it.

You have really NOT read the Torah, nor the NT, or you would not be posting such idiotic things as true, hoping that none of us ever read or knows anything about the Torah or the NT.

You are totally delusional, and very dangerous, like so many who want to wipe out Jewish history and turn it into their own playground where nobody and nothing matters because it is their "interpretation" of things past.

I have read The Pentateuch and New Testament, and I not only read them, I studied them, studied Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic in reference to certain phrases and words in both The Old Testament and New Testament.

Why do you refuse to discuss The Book of Zacharia?

I do not want to wipe out Jewish History. I want to defend Israel's right to The Promise Land. It can be proven they are genetically and historically tied to Israel for about the last 4,000 years. It can be shown they Sojourned in Egypt, just like The Bible states they did.

I am affirming Jewish History, not denying it.

Why don't you want to answer my question about The Book of Zacharia?

You have really not noticed?

This is NOT, the religion community and this is NOT a religion thread.

What a joke, you AFFIRM Jewish history by changing what is actually written.

Have a nice life rearranging history to your liking.

 

[The Original Tree]

I'll take Genetics for $5,000 Alex.

The Bible says Ishmael, and Isaac were half brothers. Therefore Israel and Arabs according to the Bible are the offspring of Abraham.

Genetics say That Jews and Arabs have the same Paternal Ancestor.

I assert that I am correct in stating The Arab-Jew Conflict is a Sibling Rivalry with Arabs wanting The Birthright, "The Promised Land" & "The Abrahamic Covenant" that was inherited by Jacob-Israel and given to them by Yahweh.

Are you sure you are a Jew?

Thanks for playing.

Jews and Arabs Share Recent Ancestry
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2000/10/jews-and-arabs-share-recent-ancestry

Jews Are The Genetic Brothers Of Palestinians, Syrians, And Lebanese

Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes

Jewish religion and culture can be traced back to Semitic tribes that lived in the Middle East approximately 4,000 years ago. The Babylonian exile in 586 B.C. marked the beginning of major dispersals of Jewish populations from the Middle East and the development of various Jewish communities outside of present-day Israel (1).

In summary the combined results suggest that a major portion of NRY biallelic diversity present in most of the contemporary Jewish communities surveyed here traces to a common Middle Eastern source population several thousand years ago.

The implication is that this source population included a large number of distinct paternal and maternal lineages, reflecting genetic variation established in the Middle East at that time. In turn, this source diversity has been maintained within Jewish communities, despite numerous migrations during the Diaspora and long-term residence as isolated subpopulations in numerous geographic locations outside of the Middle East.


You never answered my question about why Israel - Jerusalem is a "Cup of Trembling for Many Nations."

You claimed to have read The Bible, yet had no desire to comment on that. Have you read much on The Book of Zechariah? Especially Chapters 11-14.

Thank you for changing Ishmael's origins from being Egyptian to being an Arab, which is something Islam has been doing for 1400 years.

Never mind......that the Arabs kept quiet for 2400 years before Islam was created because they never heard of Ishmael, and much less could care about him, Abraham, Jews, etc.

Keep your religious beliefs, we shall keep our history intact the way it has been for the past 3800 years, before Christians and Muslims decided to borrow, steal and then try to kill all Jews in order for their versions to be the valid ones.

Ishmael can be both Egyptian and Arab since there were Arabs in Egypt. Egypt is a place more than it is an ethnicity. Jesus and his family spent around 20 years in Egypt, So.....Is Messiah, Egyptian or Jewish? He is The Lion of The Tribe of Judah. He is Jewish, Hebrew, or Israeli. However you would like to put it.

It really doesn't matter if Ishmael is Egyptian or Arab, because Ishmael is not part of The Abrahamic Covenant. Does not have any claim to The Promised Land.

And it's been established that The Hebrews-Jews have occupied The Promised Land for the last 4,000 years.

Jesus and his family spent 20 years ....where?
Ishmael is what?

Everything a sick mind like yours decides to change or interpret in order to undo Judaism does MATTER. Always.

It is like saying that the First Nations are not the First Nations of the Americas and that there was a population there before them and they invaded and took over, no matter that there is no proof of it. Or changing each and every history of those 500 Nations as if they have no rights and no say about it.

You have really NOT read the Torah, nor the NT, or you would not be posting such idiotic things as true, hoping that none of us ever read or knows anything about the Torah or the NT.

You are totally delusional, and very dangerous, like so many who want to wipe out Jewish history and turn it into their own playground where nobody and nothing matters because it is their "interpretation" of things past.

I have read The Pentateuch and New Testament, and I not only read them, I studied them, studied Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic in reference to certain phrases and words in both The Old Testament and New Testament.

Why do you refuse to discuss The Book of Zacharia?

I do not want to wipe out Jewish History. I want to defend Israel's right to The Promise Land. It can be proven they are genetically and historically tied to Israel for about the last 4,000 years. It can be shown they Sojourned in Egypt, just like The Bible states they did.

I am affirming Jewish History, not denying it.

Why don't you want to answer my question about The Book of Zacharia?

You have really not noticed?

This is NOT, the religion community and this is NOT a religion thread.

What a joke, you AFFIRM Jewish history by changing what is actually written.

Have a nice life rearranging history to your liking.

The discussion became religious in nature when the discussion was about WHO IS INDIGENOUS to ISRAEL or PALESTINE, Jew or Arab.....????

The Bible is both a religious book and a Historical Reference which has repeatedly been proven to be accurate and true, so excluding mention of The Promised Land in The Bible does a disservice to the discussion.

I have provided Biblical Sources, Historical Sources, and Genetic Studies that prove ISRAEL is for ISRAELIS, and only THE JEW, THE HEBREW is INDIGENOUS to ISRAEL.

The Religious context interjected in to the discussion is only in reference to The Abrahamic Covenant, and Abraham whom both Jew and Arab claim as their Patriarch, and the fact that Abraham passed on his Inheritance, and The Abrahamic Covenant to Isaac whom passed it on to Jacob-Israel, and that Ishmael was ENTIRELY EXCLUDED from The ABRAHAMIC Covenant, and has NO RIGHT to The Promised Land. He instead was given a different promise, that his children would become a great and many people, which according to all I have studied, are THE Arabs.

If you like, you can limit that to just The Egyptians, but it does not change anything I have factually laid out here in this discussion.

Are you sure, you are Jewish? You don't seem to like the fact I am able to show That Israel is for Jews, and Jews alone, and has been for 4,000 years.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Thank you for changing Ishmael's origins from being Egyptian to being an Arab, which is something Islam has been doing for 1400 years.

Never mind......that the Arabs kept quiet for 2400 years before Islam was created because they never heard of Ishmael, and much less could care about him, Abraham, Jews, etc.

Keep your religious beliefs, we shall keep our history intact the way it has been for the past 3800 years, before Christians and Muslims decided to borrow, steal and then try to kill all Jews in order for their versions to be the valid ones.

Ishmael can be both Egyptian and Arab since there were Arabs in Egypt. Egypt is a place more than it is an ethnicity. Jesus and his family spent around 20 years in Egypt, So.....Is Messiah, Egyptian or Jewish? He is The Lion of The Tribe of Judah. He is Jewish, Hebrew, or Israeli. However you would like to put it.

It really doesn't matter if Ishmael is Egyptian or Arab, because Ishmael is not part of The Abrahamic Covenant. Does not have any claim to The Promised Land.

And it's been established that The Hebrews-Jews have occupied The Promised Land for the last 4,000 years.

Jesus and his family spent 20 years ....where?
Ishmael is what?

Everything a sick mind like yours decides to change or interpret in order to undo Judaism does MATTER. Always.

It is like saying that the First Nations are not the First Nations of the Americas and that there was a population there before them and they invaded and took over, no matter that there is no proof of it. Or changing each and every history of those 500 Nations as if they have no rights and no say about it.

You have really NOT read the Torah, nor the NT, or you would not be posting such idiotic things as true, hoping that none of us ever read or knows anything about the Torah or the NT.

You are totally delusional, and very dangerous, like so many who want to wipe out Jewish history and turn it into their own playground where nobody and nothing matters because it is their "interpretation" of things past.

I have read The Pentateuch and New Testament, and I not only read them, I studied them, studied Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic in reference to certain phrases and words in both The Old Testament and New Testament.

Why do you refuse to discuss The Book of Zacharia?

I do not want to wipe out Jewish History. I want to defend Israel's right to The Promise Land. It can be proven they are genetically and historically tied to Israel for about the last 4,000 years. It can be shown they Sojourned in Egypt, just like The Bible states they did.

I am affirming Jewish History, not denying it.

Why don't you want to answer my question about The Book of Zacharia?

You have really not noticed?

This is NOT, the religion community and this is NOT a religion thread.

What a joke, you AFFIRM Jewish history by changing what is actually written.

Have a nice life rearranging history to your liking.

The discussion became religious in nature when the discussion was about WHO IS INDIGENOUS to ISRAEL or PALESTINE, Jew or Arab.....????

The Bible is both a religious book and a Historical Reference which has repeatedly been proven to be accurate and true, so excluding mention of The Promised Land in The Bible does a disservice to the discussion.

I have provided Biblical Sources, Historical Sources, and Genetic Studies that prove ISRAEL is for ISRAELIS, and only THE JEW, THE HEBREW is INDIGENOUS to ISRAEL.

The Religious context interjected in to the discussion is only in reference to The Abrahamic Covenant, and Abraham whom both Jew and Arab claim as their Patriarch, and the fact that Abraham passed on his Inheritance, and The Abrahamic Covenant to Isaac whom passed it on to Jacob-Israel, and that Ishmael was ENTIRELY EXCLUDED from The ABRAHAMIC Covenant, and has NO RIGHT to The Promised Land. He instead was given a different promise, that his children would become a great and many people, which according to all I have studied, are THE Arabs.

If you like, you can limit that to just The Egyptians, but it does not change anything I have factually laid out here in this discussion.

Are you sure, you are Jewish? You don't seem to like the fact I am able to show That Israel is for Jews, and Jews alone, and has been for 4,000 years.

The discussion became religious in nature when the discussion was about WHO IS INDIGENOUS to ISRAEL or PALESTINE, Jew or Arab.....????

The Palestinians had lived in that territory for thousands of years without dispute. Then some settlers came down from Europe, who had no record that any of them had any ancestors from that territory, and claimed it for themselves.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Ishmael can be both Egyptian and Arab since there were Arabs in Egypt. Egypt is a place more than it is an ethnicity. Jesus and his family spent around 20 years in Egypt, So.....Is Messiah, Egyptian or Jewish? He is The Lion of The Tribe of Judah. He is Jewish, Hebrew, or Israeli. However you would like to put it.

It really doesn't matter if Ishmael is Egyptian or Arab, because Ishmael is not part of The Abrahamic Covenant. Does not have any claim to The Promised Land.

And it's been established that The Hebrews-Jews have occupied The Promised Land for the last 4,000 years.

Jesus and his family spent 20 years ....where?
Ishmael is what?

Everything a sick mind like yours decides to change or interpret in order to undo Judaism does MATTER. Always.

It is like saying that the First Nations are not the First Nations of the Americas and that there was a population there before them and they invaded and took over, no matter that there is no proof of it. Or changing each and every history of those 500 Nations as if they have no rights and no say about it.

You have really NOT read the Torah, nor the NT, or you would not be posting such idiotic things as true, hoping that none of us ever read or knows anything about the Torah or the NT.

You are totally delusional, and very dangerous, like so many who want to wipe out Jewish history and turn it into their own playground where nobody and nothing matters because it is their "interpretation" of things past.

I have read The Pentateuch and New Testament, and I not only read them, I studied them, studied Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic in reference to certain phrases and words in both The Old Testament and New Testament.

Why do you refuse to discuss The Book of Zacharia?

I do not want to wipe out Jewish History. I want to defend Israel's right to The Promise Land. It can be proven they are genetically and historically tied to Israel for about the last 4,000 years. It can be shown they Sojourned in Egypt, just like The Bible states they did.

I am affirming Jewish History, not denying it.

Why don't you want to answer my question about The Book of Zacharia?

You have really not noticed?

This is NOT, the religion community and this is NOT a religion thread.

What a joke, you AFFIRM Jewish history by changing what is actually written.

Have a nice life rearranging history to your liking.

The discussion became religious in nature when the discussion was about WHO IS INDIGENOUS to ISRAEL or PALESTINE, Jew or Arab.....????

The Bible is both a religious book and a Historical Reference which has repeatedly been proven to be accurate and true, so excluding mention of The Promised Land in The Bible does a disservice to the discussion.

I have provided Biblical Sources, Historical Sources, and Genetic Studies that prove ISRAEL is for ISRAELIS, and only THE JEW, THE HEBREW is INDIGENOUS to ISRAEL.

The Religious context interjected in to the discussion is only in reference to The Abrahamic Covenant, and Abraham whom both Jew and Arab claim as their Patriarch, and the fact that Abraham passed on his Inheritance, and The Abrahamic Covenant to Isaac whom passed it on to Jacob-Israel, and that Ishmael was ENTIRELY EXCLUDED from The ABRAHAMIC Covenant, and has NO RIGHT to The Promised Land. He instead was given a different promise, that his children would become a great and many people, which according to all I have studied, are THE Arabs.

If you like, you can limit that to just The Egyptians, but it does not change anything I have factually laid out here in this discussion.

Are you sure, you are Jewish? You don't seem to like the fact I am able to show That Israel is for Jews, and Jews alone, and has been for 4,000 years.

The discussion became religious in nature when the discussion was about WHO IS INDIGENOUS to ISRAEL or PALESTINE, Jew or Arab.....????

The Palestinians had lived in that territory for thousands of years without dispute. Then some settlers came down from Europe, who had no record that any of them had any ancestors from that territory, and claimed it for themselves.

NO record, for the Jews.
Amazing how much archeology of Jewish history is found for before 1400 years ago, before the Muslim invasion, and NONE can be found for the endless Arab presence of the so called "Palestinians" who never existed.

The Palestinians do not exist in the Torah
The Palestinians do not exist in the NT
The Palestinians do not exist in the Quran
The Palestinians do not exist in Iranian/ Persian history
Or in Hindu history
Or in Babylonian history
Or in Assyrian history
Or in Egyptian history
Or before the Arab leaders went to Moscow in 1964 and decided on calling the Arabs in the Mandate " Palestinians", but ONLY because that word had been used for the Mandate for Palestine.

Just imagine if the British had been honorable and decent and called the Mandate as it should have been called.

The Mandate for ISRAEL


Oh, how the Arabs would be tripping over themselves now saying that they are the "True Hebrew/Israelites/Judeans/Jews


Give us another reason to laugh tin man .

 

[The Original Tree]

Ishmael can be both Egyptian and Arab since there were Arabs in Egypt. Egypt is a place more than it is an ethnicity. Jesus and his family spent around 20 years in Egypt, So.....Is Messiah, Egyptian or Jewish? He is The Lion of The Tribe of Judah. He is Jewish, Hebrew, or Israeli. However you would like to put it.

It really doesn't matter if Ishmael is Egyptian or Arab, because Ishmael is not part of The Abrahamic Covenant. Does not have any claim to The Promised Land.

And it's been established that The Hebrews-Jews have occupied The Promised Land for the last 4,000 years.

Jesus and his family spent 20 years ....where?
Ishmael is what?

Everything a sick mind like yours decides to change or interpret in order to undo Judaism does MATTER. Always.

It is like saying that the First Nations are not the First Nations of the Americas and that there was a population there before them and they invaded and took over, no matter that there is no proof of it. Or changing each and every history of those 500 Nations as if they have no rights and no say about it.

You have really NOT read the Torah, nor the NT, or you would not be posting such idiotic things as true, hoping that none of us ever read or knows anything about the Torah or the NT.

You are totally delusional, and very dangerous, like so many who want to wipe out Jewish history and turn it into their own playground where nobody and nothing matters because it is their "interpretation" of things past.

I have read The Pentateuch and New Testament, and I not only read them, I studied them, studied Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic in reference to certain phrases and words in both The Old Testament and New Testament.

Why do you refuse to discuss The Book of Zacharia?

I do not want to wipe out Jewish History. I want to defend Israel's right to The Promise Land. It can be proven they are genetically and historically tied to Israel for about the last 4,000 years. It can be shown they Sojourned in Egypt, just like The Bible states they did.

I am affirming Jewish History, not denying it.

Why don't you want to answer my question about The Book of Zacharia?

You have really not noticed?

This is NOT, the religion community and this is NOT a religion thread.

What a joke, you AFFIRM Jewish history by changing what is actually written.

Have a nice life rearranging history to your liking.

The discussion became religious in nature when the discussion was about WHO IS INDIGENOUS to ISRAEL or PALESTINE, Jew or Arab.....????

The Bible is both a religious book and a Historical Reference which has repeatedly been proven to be accurate and true, so excluding mention of The Promised Land in The Bible does a disservice to the discussion.

I have provided Biblical Sources, Historical Sources, and Genetic Studies that prove ISRAEL is for ISRAELIS, and only THE JEW, THE HEBREW is INDIGENOUS to ISRAEL.

The Religious context interjected in to the discussion is only in reference to The Abrahamic Covenant, and Abraham whom both Jew and Arab claim as their Patriarch, and the fact that Abraham passed on his Inheritance, and The Abrahamic Covenant to Isaac whom passed it on to Jacob-Israel, and that Ishmael was ENTIRELY EXCLUDED from The ABRAHAMIC Covenant, and has NO RIGHT to The Promised Land. He instead was given a different promise, that his children would become a great and many people, which according to all I have studied, are THE Arabs.

If you like, you can limit that to just The Egyptians, but it does not change anything I have factually laid out here in this discussion.

Are you sure, you are Jewish? You don't seem to like the fact I am able to show That Israel is for Jews, and Jews alone, and has been for 4,000 years.

The discussion became religious in nature when the discussion was about WHO IS INDIGENOUS to ISRAEL or PALESTINE, Jew or Arab.....????

The Palestinians had lived in that territory for thousands of years without dispute. Then some settlers came down from Europe, who had no record that any of them had any ancestors from that territory, and claimed it for themselves.

That is absolutely false. There is both Genetic Evidence through DNA, Historical Evidence via Granite Monuments commemorating battles with Israel, documents, from Egyptian Scrolls written on Papyrus, to the Dead Sea Scrolls, and even a Copper plate found, and other stone monuments that show that The Hebrews & Israel has existed for 4,000 years occupying the area and beyond what we call modern day Israel.

There is No such thing as a Palestinian unless you want to talk about a Racial Slur The Roman Empire created to ridicule and insult Jews living in Israel under Roman Occupation.

Secret of Dead Sea Copper Scroll Unlocked, Revealing Location of Lost Temple Treasures

8 Jewish archaeological discoveries


Ceramic shard may bear oldest Hebrew inscription

A 6-by-6-inch pottery shard unearthed at the archaeological dig site of Hirbet Qeiyafa (the Elah Fortress) in Israel, shown here, contains five lines of faded characters that may bear the oldest Hebrew inscription ever found. The 3,000-year-old text dates to the time of the Hebrew Bible's King David and is thought to be written in proto-Canaanite, a precursor to the Hebrew alphabet. While other people used proto-Canaanite characters as well, the inscription contains a three-letter verb meaning "to do" that existed only in Hebrew, according to Yossi Garfinkel, a Hebrew University archaeologist in charge of the dig. "That leads us to believe that this is Hebrew, and that this is the oldest Hebrew inscription that has been found," he told the Associated Press. Other scholars, however, have urged caution until more is known about the inscription and its context.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Jesus and his family spent 20 years ....where?
Ishmael is what?

Everything a sick mind like yours decides to change or interpret in order to undo Judaism does MATTER. Always.

It is like saying that the First Nations are not the First Nations of the Americas and that there was a population there before them and they invaded and took over, no matter that there is no proof of it. Or changing each and every history of those 500 Nations as if they have no rights and no say about it.

You have really NOT read the Torah, nor the NT, or you would not be posting such idiotic things as true, hoping that none of us ever read or knows anything about the Torah or the NT.

You are totally delusional, and very dangerous, like so many who want to wipe out Jewish history and turn it into their own playground where nobody and nothing matters because it is their "interpretation" of things past.

I have read The Pentateuch and New Testament, and I not only read them, I studied them, studied Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic in reference to certain phrases and words in both The Old Testament and New Testament.

Why do you refuse to discuss The Book of Zacharia?

I do not want to wipe out Jewish History. I want to defend Israel's right to The Promise Land. It can be proven they are genetically and historically tied to Israel for about the last 4,000 years. It can be shown they Sojourned in Egypt, just like The Bible states they did.

I am affirming Jewish History, not denying it.

Why don't you want to answer my question about The Book of Zacharia?

You have really not noticed?

This is NOT, the religion community and this is NOT a religion thread.

What a joke, you AFFIRM Jewish history by changing what is actually written.

Have a nice life rearranging history to your liking.

The discussion became religious in nature when the discussion was about WHO IS INDIGENOUS to ISRAEL or PALESTINE, Jew or Arab.....????

The Bible is both a religious book and a Historical Reference which has repeatedly been proven to be accurate and true, so excluding mention of The Promised Land in The Bible does a disservice to the discussion.

I have provided Biblical Sources, Historical Sources, and Genetic Studies that prove ISRAEL is for ISRAELIS, and only THE JEW, THE HEBREW is INDIGENOUS to ISRAEL.

The Religious context interjected in to the discussion is only in reference to The Abrahamic Covenant, and Abraham whom both Jew and Arab claim as their Patriarch, and the fact that Abraham passed on his Inheritance, and The Abrahamic Covenant to Isaac whom passed it on to Jacob-Israel, and that Ishmael was ENTIRELY EXCLUDED from The ABRAHAMIC Covenant, and has NO RIGHT to The Promised Land. He instead was given a different promise, that his children would become a great and many people, which according to all I have studied, are THE Arabs.

If you like, you can limit that to just The Egyptians, but it does not change anything I have factually laid out here in this discussion.

Are you sure, you are Jewish? You don't seem to like the fact I am able to show That Israel is for Jews, and Jews alone, and has been for 4,000 years.

The discussion became religious in nature when the discussion was about WHO IS INDIGENOUS to ISRAEL or PALESTINE, Jew or Arab.....????

The Palestinians had lived in that territory for thousands of years without dispute. Then some settlers came down from Europe, who had no record that any of them had any ancestors from that territory, and claimed it for themselves.

That is absolutely false. There is both Genetic Evidence through DNA, Historical Evidence via Granite Monuments commemorating battles with Israel, documents, from Egyptian Scrolls written on Papyrus, to the Dead Sea Scrolls, and even a Copper plate found, and other stone monuments that show that The Hebrews & Israel has existed for 4,000 years occupying the area and beyond what we call modern day Israel.

There is No such thing as a Palestinian unless you want to talk about a Racial Slur The Roman Empire created to ridicule and insult Jews living in Israel under Roman Occupation.

Secret of Dead Sea Copper Scroll Unlocked, Revealing Location of Lost Temple Treasures

8 Jewish archaeological discoveries


Ceramic shard may bear oldest Hebrew inscription

A 6-by-6-inch pottery shard unearthed at the archaeological dig site of Hirbet Qeiyafa (the Elah Fortress) in Israel, shown here, contains five lines of faded characters that may bear the oldest Hebrew inscription ever found. The 3,000-year-old text dates to the time of the Hebrew Bible's King David and is thought to be written in proto-Canaanite, a precursor to the Hebrew alphabet. While other people used proto-Canaanite characters as well, the inscription contains a three-letter verb meaning "to do" that existed only in Hebrew, according to Yossi Garfinkel, a Hebrew University archaeologist in charge of the dig. "That leads us to believe that this is Hebrew, and that this is the oldest Hebrew inscription that has been found," he told the Associated Press. Other scholars, however, have urged caution until more is known about the inscription and its context.

So, did the Palestinians just fall out of the sky in 1924?