The myth that a surplus during the Clinton administration was a myth.

[Toro]

Really?

Can you go to the bank and get a loan with someone else's promises to pay you as collateral?

My first car loan was co-signed by my uncle, who promised to pay if I didn't.

So yes.

 

[Toro]

Oh, and of course, all unsecured loans such as credit cards are essentially based upon someone else's ability to pay you.

 

[uscitizen]

Really?

Can you go to the bank and get a loan, with someone else's promises to pay you as collateral?

Absolutely, I have gone as collateral/cosigner on several loans for people I trust.

I recently cosigned on a late model used mini van for my Housekeeper and her husband.
When I die my trust estate takes over that obligation.

 

[uscitizen]

Oh, and of course, all unsecured loans such as credit cards are essentially based upon someone else's ability to pay you.

Yep, why they want to know your job status and income, etc.

One big reason the NINJA loans were crap from the onset.

 

[Oddball]

Really?

Can you go to the bank and get a loan with someone else's promises to pay you as collateral?

My first car loan was co-signed by my uncle, who promised to pay if I didn't.

So yes.

Then the loan was, legally speaking, secured by your uncle, not you....That's how co-signing works.

 

[Oddball]

Oh, and of course, all unsecured loans such as credit cards are essentially based upon someone else's ability to pay you.

Yep, why they want to know your job status and income, etc.

Those are unsecured loans.

 

[Toro]

Oh, and of course, all unsecured loans such as credit cards are essentially based upon someone else's ability to pay you.

Yep, why they want to know your job status and income, etc.

Those are unsecured loans.

This is relevant how?

Pension funds buy government debt and hold them as assets. Banks buy government debt and hold them as assets. Insurance companies buy government debt and hold them as assets. Individuals buy government debt and hold them as assets. The social security trusts buy government debt and hold them as assets. What's the problem?

 

[Oddball]

Yep, why they want to know your job status and income, etc.

Those are unsecured loans.

This is relevant how?

Pension funds buy government debt and hold them as assets. Banks buy government debt and hold them as assets. Insurance companies buy government debt and hold them as assets. Individuals buy government debt and hold them as assets. The social security trusts buy government debt and hold them as assets.

It's relevant because you, the gubmint and the Fed are getting away with deeming yet-to-be-collected taxes levied against taxpayers, who in many cases haven't even been born yet, as "assets".

I run a scam like that out of my basement, and I'm bunking with Bernie Madoff.

 

[Toro]

Those are unsecured loans.

This is relevant how?

Pension funds buy government debt and hold them as assets. Banks buy government debt and hold them as assets. Insurance companies buy government debt and hold them as assets. Individuals buy government debt and hold them as assets. The social security trusts buy government debt and hold them as assets.

It's relevant because you, the gubmint and the Fed are getting away with deeming yet-to-be-collected taxes levied against taxpayers, who in many cases haven't even been born yet, as "assets".

I run a scam like that out of my basement, and I'm bunking with Bernie Madoff.

All government bonds are claims on future taxes, and are considered assets when owned in finance and under the law. An ideological pathological disdain for government is irrelevant in the financial and the legal systems, and an extremist position does not change that. If you don't believe me, go to a court of law and make your argument that government bonds aren't assets.

And it is irrelevant to the discussion about the fiscal balance during the last decade.

 

[Oddball]

Sure...Under the laws written by that those who rely upon defining money that they don't have, and might possibly not ever have, as an "asset".

Nice work, if you can get it.

 

[Toro]

Sure...Under the laws written by that those who rely upon defining money that they don't have, and might possibly not ever have, as an "asset".

Nice work, if you can get it.

It is universally accepted by pretty much everyone in finance and law and those who owns government bonds that they are assets.

How good of an asset is another question.

 

[Oddball]

It was universally accepted by pretty much everyone in the Manson family that Charlie was Christ.

How'd that work out?

 

[Intense]

They keep changing the way they compute the budget, folks.

We ran the entire Iraqi war OFF budget, for christ's sakes. Doesn't get any weirder than that , does it?

We don't know ANYTHING because we cannot believe anything anyone tells us anymore.

How many years while most of us found our purchaing power evaporating at 10 or 20% a year, while they weretelling us that there was no inflation or a mere 2 or 3%??

How many years have they been lieing to us about the actualy number of people who couldn't find enough work, while they told us there was almost no unemployment?

Nothing we are being told now is not SUSPECT.

NOTHING!

Anymore??? They have been lying since before we were born.

 

[Toro]

It was universally accepted by pretty much everyone in the Manson family that Charlie was Christ.

How'd that work out?

A dozen crazy people compared to hundreds of years of legal precedent and acceptance by hundreds of millions of people.

Yeah, good analogy. Well done.

 

[Oddball]

So, your band of people making up their own self serving version of reality beats out the other, because of time in service and numbers of people buying into the hallucination.

mmmmmmmmmkaaaaayyy.

 

[Toro]

So, your band of people making up their own self serving version of reality beats out the other, because of time in service and numbers of people buying into the hallucination.

mmmmmmmmmkaaaaayyy.

One of us is making an extremist argument and its not me.

 

[loosecannon]

So, your band of people making up their own self serving version of reality beats out the other, because of time in service and numbers of people buying into the hallucination.

mmmmmmmmmkaaaaayyy.

It's far more than that. The entire society rather voluntarily subscribes to public fictions, like money, gravity, math, statistics, the authority of scientists and clergy, GOD. The moral distinction between war and cold blooded murder, the right of states to engage in violence, spy on citizens and keep secret from us that which we must know to vote as actual citizens in a democratic process.

Truth is I suspect that almost everything you believe is a public fiction. You just don't know it.

 

[Oddball]

So, your band of people making up their own self serving version of reality beats out the other, because of time in service and numbers of people buying into the hallucination.

mmmmmmmmmkaaaaayyy.

It's far more than that. The entire society rather voluntarily subscribes to public fictions, like money, gravity, math, statistics, the authority of scientists and clergy, GOD. The moral distinction between war and cold blooded murder, the right of states to engage in violence, spy on citizens and keep secret from us that which we must know to vote as actual citizens in a democratic process.

Truth is I suspect that almost everything you believe is a public fiction. You just don't know it.

Your premise relies upon the fiction of "society" as tangible at the outset.

Try again.

 

[Oddball]

So, your band of people making up their own self serving version of reality beats out the other, because of time in service and numbers of people buying into the hallucination.

mmmmmmmmmkaaaaayyy.

One of us is making an extremist argument and its not me.

Who gets to define "extremist"?

 

[loosecannon]

So, your band of people making up their own self serving version of reality beats out the other, because of time in service and numbers of people buying into the hallucination.

mmmmmmmmmkaaaaayyy.

It's far more than that. The entire society rather voluntarily subscribes to public fictions, like money, gravity, math, statistics, the authority of scientists and clergy, GOD. The moral distinction between war and cold blooded murder, the right of states to engage in violence, spy on citizens and keep secret from us that which we must know to vote as actual citizens in a democratic process.

Truth is I suspect that almost everything you believe is a public fiction. You just don't know it.

Your premise relies upon the fiction of "society" as tangible at the outset.

Try again.

No it doesn't, my premise relies on any any set of people whose lives intersect regardless of whether it is a family, tribe, clan, village, city, state, one man and one woman on an island etc.

In order to speak we depend on social fictions. In order to sell and honor bonds on a macro scale we rely on the same edifis, bonds and money; social fictions.