The Myth of Wind and Solar Energy: They Are Not Free

Discussion in 'Energy' started by longknife, Dec 22, 2012.

  1. longknife
    Offline

    longknife Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2012
    Messages:
    25,143
    Thanks Received:
    8,300
    Trophy Points:
    900
    Location:
    Sin City
    Ratings:
    +13,489
    - Institute for Energy Research Friday, December 21, 2012

    Read more @ The Myth of Wind and Solar Energy: They Are Not Free

    :confused:
     
  2. neomalthusian
    Offline

    neomalthusian Agnostic Prognosticator

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2012
    Messages:
    96
    Thanks Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +15
    It's good to clarify myths around alternative energies. Getting smarter about how we harness what's around us makes sense, but we shouldn't delude ourselves as to what it can do. We will never barge goods around the world or fly airliners or do our 80 bazillion acre monocrop farming with electric vehicles.

    I think you have to look at an overall EROEI for the whole process to figure out what has any real promise, and you have to acknowledge the limits of batteries. So far that leaves us with soberingly few big picture solutions over the long term. And by that I mean none.
     
  3. gallantwarrior
    Online

    gallantwarrior Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Messages:
    18,740
    Thanks Received:
    3,584
    Trophy Points:
    260
    Location:
    So far in the boonies, I'm not on google street vi
    Ratings:
    +6,052
    So far, solar power works well enough for my 900 sq ft home. I still have a gas-powered generator for backup. I heat using a wood-burning stove, but have a propane stove on a thermostat to keep the place above freezing when I am gone too long to stoke that wood-burner. I am still doing the research to determine whether wind power will be an adequate alternative to the solar panels. ButI only am concerned with a small home and dairy. I do not have to power an entire city or an industrial complex.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  4. midcan5
    Offline

    midcan5 liberal / progressive

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2007
    Messages:
    10,774
    Thanks Received:
    2,361
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Location:
    Philly, PA
    Ratings:
    +3,283
    If one follows the logic of the right wing we should never have crossed the Atlantic, moved out of the caves, farmed this grassland, or even came out of the trees. Thankfully not everyone is a negative naysayer of change. Sometimes the trees run out of fruit, the caves grow cold, and weeds come in handy for food.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  5. neomalthusian
    Offline

    neomalthusian Agnostic Prognosticator

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2012
    Messages:
    96
    Thanks Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +15
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Meathead
    Offline

    Meathead Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Messages:
    15,943
    Thanks Received:
    2,334
    Trophy Points:
    280
    Location:
    Prague, Czech Republic
    Ratings:
    +8,775
    It is abject stupidity to think or even imply that any kind of power is free, except perhaps solar panels warming water. Electricity is costly to generate, except of course if you can harness it like Dr Frankenstein.
     
  7. Old Rocks
    Online

    Old Rocks Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    46,419
    Thanks Received:
    5,405
    Trophy Points:
    1,840
    Location:
    Portland, Ore.
    Ratings:
    +10,274
  8. rdean
    Offline

    rdean rddean

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2009
    Messages:
    60,001
    Thanks Received:
    6,876
    Trophy Points:
    1,840
    Location:
    chicago
    Ratings:
    +14,867
    The Myth of Wind and Solar Energy: They Are Not Free

    Who ever said they were?
     
  9. westwall
    Offline

    westwall USMB Mod Staff Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2010
    Messages:
    40,948
    Thanks Received:
    7,964
    Trophy Points:
    1,830
    Location:
    Nevada
    Ratings:
    +19,682




    No, we say if it works use it, just don't lie about it. I've had a solar system for 27 years in my home. How about you? I know what it can, and cannot do. Solar is inefficient when scaled up but for an individual home it has a place. Mine is a backup system and is now in need of replacement so I am researching those and so far the efficiencies are little better than when I built our first system. That's pathetic.

    I am all for alternative energy systems...just not the grossly overpriced and innefficient crap they have now that is only around because the government takes money from middle class folks and gives it to rich Obama supporters.
     
  10. gallantwarrior
    Online

    gallantwarrior Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Messages:
    18,740
    Thanks Received:
    3,584
    Trophy Points:
    260
    Location:
    So far in the boonies, I'm not on google street vi
    Ratings:
    +6,052
    I agree that some alternative systems work on a small-scale basis. My place is wired for 12VDC. That works if you are willing to give up some amenities like microwave ovens, modern-style washers and dryers, among other larger appliances. I can charge cell phones and run my laptop using the dc converters like those used in your car. Other than that, you can buy 12vdc TVs', DVD players, refrigerators that run on both ad/dc electric or propane, and our light fixtures are all retro-fitted with LEDs.
    They are experimenting in several villages here with wind generation. These are very small villages, and they are located where wind is pretty steady. Otherwise, wind is about the least efficient of all the new-age power generation ideas.

    You are right about the cost, too. None of these systems is cheap to install. And they must be maintained properly to get maximum useful life from them. What's really hilarious is how the proponents for alternative power generation tout them as being environmentally friendly. Just what do they do with those batteries when they are no longer useful? Wind generation has been implicated in wildlife disturbances, too.
     

Share This Page