The Most Disgusting Song of All Time

[Uncensored2008]

If it was a song about communism, then he would be singing about country, nationalism, and gov't - which he's not.

The song IS about Communism.

That you are ignorant of the theories of Marx and Engels is irrelevant to this fact.

He's asking us to to "imagine" a world with NO COUNTRY, no possessions, no divisions. A gov't (and brutal dictator) IS a division, and IS a good reason to fight and die for.

Again, IF you had any grasp of Marx, you would understand that the dissolution of nations, governments, property rights, et al, is precisely what Marx promised.

The dictatorship of the proletariat is merely a transitional stage, to train humanity to accept communal ownership of all.

{Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
No religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace

You may say
I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will live as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people sharing all the world

You may say
That I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one }

We can map each of the ideas to a corresponding concept and passage in the Communist Manifesto. This is not accidental, Lennon was sugar coating Marxism for consumption by the mindless masses. Quite effectively.

It's an imagined, dreamy song about a utopia that probably never could exist on this earth. It's just one of millions of art pieces throughout the ages to do this; nothing new.

It is a hymn to Communism. It was written for that purpose.

 

[PoliticalChic]

But how come you didn't answer my painfully straightforward question?

I asked, did John Lennon ask listeners to "imagine there's one country" or "imagine there's no countries"?

The OP is the answer.

Why can't you answer my question directly?

What does John Lennon say in "imagine"?

a. "Imagine there's no countries"
b. "Imagine there's one country"

I did answer it clearly, precisely, definitively.

Others seem not to have a problem understanding the OP.

You claim not to understand it.

That implies that it was answered and you object to it's import.

You don't have to agree with me....I can't force you to be right.

 

[KevinWestern]

The OP is the answer.

Why can't you answer my question directly?

What does John Lennon say in "imagine"?

a. "Imagine there's no countries"
b. "Imagine there's one country"

I did answer it clearly, precisely, definitively.

Others seem not to have a problem understanding the OP.

You claim not to understand it.

That implies that it was answered and you object to it's import.

You don't have to agree with me....I can't force you to be right.

No you didn't answer it clearly, unfortunately.

Imagine asks us to think about a world with "nothing to live or die for". An oppressive global government would be just the opposite of that (something to fight and die for). So I can only consider your analysis incorrect here.

Imagine also asks us to think about a world without countries. A "Global Government" would imply sovereignty and ultimately the existence of one country/nation state. This is not a world without countries, it's a world with one country/nation (which conflicts with Lennon's phrasing in the song). Similar to above, I can only consider your analysis incorrect once again.

Again, I don't think you can deny that at the core the concepts touched on in this song run parallel with that of Buddhists; so, I ask you again - do you also consider Buddhism a "disgusting" practice/set of beliefs?

 

[KevinWestern]

If it was a song about communism, then he would be singing about country, nationalism, and gov't - which he's not.

The song IS about Communism.

That you are ignorant of the theories of Marx and Engels is irrelevant to this fact.

He's asking us to to "imagine" a world with NO COUNTRY, no possessions, no divisions. A gov't (and brutal dictator) IS a division, and IS a good reason to fight and die for.

Again, IF you had any grasp of Marx, you would understand that the dissolution of nations, governments, property rights, et al, is precisely what Marx promised.

The dictatorship of the proletariat is merely a transitional stage, to train humanity to accept communal ownership of all.

{Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
No religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace

You may say
I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will live as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people sharing all the world

You may say
That I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one }

We can map each of the ideas to a corresponding concept and passage in the Communist Manifesto. This is not accidental, Lennon was sugar coating Marxism for consumption by the mindless masses. Quite effectively.

It's an imagined, dreamy song about a utopia that probably never could exist on this earth. It's just one of millions of art pieces throughout the ages to do this; nothing new.

It is a hymn to Communism. It was written for that purpose.

Problem is that Lennon asks us to imagine a world without hunger, and without things "to die for". You argue that this song is about creating communist nation states which have traditionally only yielded.... hunger and things "to die for". How do you reconcile this discrepancy??

The song encapsulates almost to a T many of the core beliefs of Buddhists; at the end of the day, we are all one and the illusion of separation is just that - an illusion.

I've asked this a few times to some folks here: are you against Buddhist beliefs/practices too? If you are, that's fine but just need to establish for the sake of the convo..

 

[Uncensored2008]

Problem is that Lennon asks us to imagine a world without hunger,

No, Lennon sold the fiction that without property rights, there would result a world without hunger.

Reality is 180° from this.

and without things "to die for".

A world with nothing to die for, has nothing to live for.

But let's explore the basis of Lennon's idea;

{The Communists are further reproached with desiring to abolish countries and nationality.

The working men have no country. We cannot take from them what they have not got.}

Communist Manifesto (Chapter 2)

You argue that this song is about creating communist nation states which have traditionally only yielded.... hunger and things "to die for". How do you reconcile this discrepancy??

Again, Lennon is preaching Marxist Orthodoxy.

It is quite literally, and quite deliberately a hymn to Marxist orthodoxy.

The song encapsulates almost to a T many of the core beliefs of Buddhists; at the end of the day, we are all one and the illusion of separation is just that - an illusion.

Utter bullshit.

I've asked this a few times to some folks here: are you against Buddhist beliefs/practices too? If you are, that's fine but just need to establish for the sake of the convo..

If you see Buddhism as an advocacy of a stateless society, you are as ignorant of Buddhism as you are Marxism.

Buddhism is a spiritual, not a political system.

 

[KevinWestern]

Problem is that Lennon asks us to imagine a world without hunger,

No, Lennon sold the fiction that without property rights, there would result a world without hunger.

Reality is 180° from this.

and without things "to die for".

A world with nothing to die for, has nothing to live for.

But let's explore the basis of Lennon's idea;

{The Communists are further reproached with desiring to abolish countries and nationality.

The working men have no country. We cannot take from them what they have not got.}

Communist Manifesto (Chapter 2)



Again, Lennon is preaching Marxist Orthodoxy.

It is quite literally, and quite deliberately a hymn to Marxist orthodoxy.

The song encapsulates almost to a T many of the core beliefs of Buddhists; at the end of the day, we are all one and the illusion of separation is just that - an illusion.

Utter bullshit.

I've asked this a few times to some folks here: are you against Buddhist beliefs/practices too? If you are, that's fine but just need to establish for the sake of the convo..

If you see Buddhism as an advocacy of a stateless society, you are as ignorant of Buddhism as you are Marxism.

Buddhism is a spiritual, not a political system.

So you're claiming that unequivocally this song is not of a spiritual nature and is instead strictly political? Is that right? Did you get a chance to talk to Lennon about this before he passed, lol? Well I claim that this song is spiritual and my opinion is as good as yours.

Also, are you claiming that "removing all divisions" is not a Buddhist principle? That - lol - would be quite a tough sell.

 

[Casjah]

Problem is that Lennon asks us to imagine a world without hunger,

No, Lennon sold the fiction that without property rights, there would result a world without hunger.

Reality is 180° from this.



A world with nothing to die for, has nothing to live for.

But let's explore the basis of Lennon's idea;

{The Communists are further reproached with desiring to abolish countries and nationality.

The working men have no country. We cannot take from them what they have not got.}

Communist Manifesto (Chapter 2)



Again, Lennon is preaching Marxist Orthodoxy.

It is quite literally, and quite deliberately a hymn to Marxist orthodoxy.



Utter bullshit.

I've asked this a few times to some folks here: are you against Buddhist beliefs/practices too? If you are, that's fine but just need to establish for the sake of the convo..

If you see Buddhism as an advocacy of a stateless society, you are as ignorant of Buddhism as you are Marxism.

Buddhism is a spiritual, not a political system.

So you're claiming that unequivocally this song is not of a spiritual nature and is instead strictly political? Is that right? Did you get a chance to talk to Lennon about this before he passed, lol? Well I claim that this song is spiritual and my opinion is as good as yours.

Also, are you claiming that "removing all divisions" is not a Buddhist principle? That - lol - would be quite a tough sell.

One could argue that the words of this song have a Native American philosophy, as well. Many Native American belief systems state that the earth and its resources cannot be owned. Rather, we are apart of that system. The earth is our mother. She provides for us, and we also give back as well as take from her. Modern humans seem to be in some kind of war with this fact (that we are apart of nature), and attempt to remain separated from the earth.

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...


People can live for This moment.. reality, instead of a separate reality: a future after death which is the ultimate separation from this life. And in so doing, devote more of their energy to improving this world and knowing all that it has to offer us.

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

People divide themselves according to tribal demographics. Perhaps we (as a people) can evolve beyond this human tendency. If we did not divide ourselves, there would certainly be less strife and therefore less suffering in the world.

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

People combine their energy and resources to accomplish a United goal rather than fragmented goals of material accumulation and the stripping of the earth's natural resources. What if humanity did combine its efforts in just one goal.. say space travel. There were no personal agendas, no struggle for individual power and material wealth, and no corruption. Could we be a space-faring species exploring galaxies and discovering new worlds?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwUGSYDKUxU]John Lennon - Imagine - Lyrics - YouTube[/ame]

Either way, most of us can at least agree that musically this song is awesome.

 

[thanatos144]

No, Lennon sold the fiction that without property rights, there would result a world without hunger.

Reality is 180° from this.



A world with nothing to die for, has nothing to live for.

But let's explore the basis of Lennon's idea;

{The Communists are further reproached with desiring to abolish countries and nationality.

The working men have no country. We cannot take from them what they have not got.}

Communist Manifesto (Chapter 2)



Again, Lennon is preaching Marxist Orthodoxy.

It is quite literally, and quite deliberately a hymn to Marxist orthodoxy.



Utter bullshit.



If you see Buddhism as an advocacy of a stateless society, you are as ignorant of Buddhism as you are Marxism.

Buddhism is a spiritual, not a political system.

So you're claiming that unequivocally this song is not of a spiritual nature and is instead strictly political? Is that right? Did you get a chance to talk to Lennon about this before he passed, lol? Well I claim that this song is spiritual and my opinion is as good as yours.

Also, are you claiming that "removing all divisions" is not a Buddhist principle? That - lol - would be quite a tough sell.

One could argue that the words of this song have a Native American philosophy, as well. Many Native American belief systems state that the earth and its resources cannot be owned. Rather, we are apart of that system. The earth is our mother. She provides for us, and we also give back as well as take from her. Modern humans seem to be in some kind of war with this fact (that we are apart of nature), and attempt to remain separated from the earth.

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...


People can live for This moment.. reality, instead of a separate reality: a future after death which is the ultimate separation from this life. And in so doing, devote more of their energy to improving this world and knowing all that it has to offer us.

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

People divide themselves according to tribal demographics. Perhaps we (as a people) can evolve beyond this human tendency. If we did not divide ourselves, there would certainly be less strife and therefore less suffering in the world.

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

People combine their energy and resources to accomplish a United goal rather than fragmented goals of material accumulation and the stripping of the earth's natural resources. What if humanity did combine its efforts in just one goal.. say space travel. There were no personal agendas, no struggle for individual power and material wealth, and no corruption. Could we be a space-faring species exploring galaxies and discovering new worlds?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwUGSYDKUxU]John Lennon - Imagine - Lyrics - YouTube[/ame]

Either way, most of us can at least agree that musically this song is awesome.

No we won't agree it's awesome because it is crap

tapatalk post

 

[Camp]

So you're claiming that unequivocally this song is not of a spiritual nature and is instead strictly political? Is that right? Did you get a chance to talk to Lennon about this before he passed, lol? Well I claim that this song is spiritual and my opinion is as good as yours.

Also, are you claiming that "removing all divisions" is not a Buddhist principle? That - lol - would be quite a tough sell.

One could argue that the words of this song have a Native American philosophy, as well. Many Native American belief systems state that the earth and its resources cannot be owned. Rather, we are apart of that system. The earth is our mother. She provides for us, and we also give back as well as take from her. Modern humans seem to be in some kind of war with this fact (that we are apart of nature), and attempt to remain separated from the earth.

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...


People can live for This moment.. reality, instead of a separate reality: a future after death which is the ultimate separation from this life. And in so doing, devote more of their energy to improving this world and knowing all that it has to offer us.

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

People divide themselves according to tribal demographics. Perhaps we (as a people) can evolve beyond this human tendency. If we did not divide ourselves, there would certainly be less strife and therefore less suffering in the world.

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

People combine their energy and resources to accomplish a United goal rather than fragmented goals of material accumulation and the stripping of the earth's natural resources. What if humanity did combine its efforts in just one goal.. say space travel. There were no personal agendas, no struggle for individual power and material wealth, and no corruption. Could we be a space-faring species exploring galaxies and discovering new worlds?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwUGSYDKUxU]John Lennon - Imagine - Lyrics - YouTube[/ame]

Either way, most of us can at least agree that musically this song is awesome.

No we won't agree it's awesome because it is crap

tapatalk post

Ha Ha, you think John Lennon's song Imagine is crap. To bad a billion people who have heard the song think it's great and Lennon was a genius who captured a feeling shared by endless generations of earthlings in a short song using a few verses of poetry and a beautiful melody. Unknown millions hear it every new years eve as they lower the ball in Times Square, New York City. It gets recorded every year in countries all over the world and is learned by school children on every continent. How does it feel to know that most of the world would call you a total ignorant stupid jerk if they heard your comment.

 

[thanatos144]

One could argue that the words of this song have a Native American philosophy, as well. Many Native American belief systems state that the earth and its resources cannot be owned. Rather, we are apart of that system. The earth is our mother. She provides for us, and we also give back as well as take from her. Modern humans seem to be in some kind of war with this fact (that we are apart of nature), and attempt to remain separated from the earth.

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...


People can live for This moment.. reality, instead of a separate reality: a future after death which is the ultimate separation from this life. And in so doing, devote more of their energy to improving this world and knowing all that it has to offer us.

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

People divide themselves according to tribal demographics. Perhaps we (as a people) can evolve beyond this human tendency. If we did not divide ourselves, there would certainly be less strife and therefore less suffering in the world.

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

People combine their energy and resources to accomplish a United goal rather than fragmented goals of material accumulation and the stripping of the earth's natural resources. What if humanity did combine its efforts in just one goal.. say space travel. There were no personal agendas, no struggle for individual power and material wealth, and no corruption. Could we be a space-faring species exploring galaxies and discovering new worlds?

John Lennon - Imagine - Lyrics - YouTube

Either way, most of us can at least agree that musically this song is awesome.

No we won't agree it's awesome because it is crap

tapatalk post

Ha Ha, you think John Lennon's song Imagine is crap. To bad a billion people who have heard the song think it's great and Lennon was a genius who captured a feeling shared by endless generations of earthlings in a short song using a few verses of poetry and a beautiful melody. Unknown millions hear it every new years eve as they lower the ball in Times Square, New York City. It gets recorded every year in countries all over the world and is learned by school children on every continent. How does it feel to know that most of the world would call you a total ignorant stupid jerk if they heard your comment.

Exaggerating I see

tapatalk post

 

[KevinWestern]

No we won't agree it's awesome because it is crap

tapatalk post

A Miley fan I presume? I'm not judging; each listener has a right to his or her own opinion..

 

[PoliticalChic]

Why can't you answer my question directly?

What does John Lennon say in "imagine"?

a. "Imagine there's no countries"
b. "Imagine there's one country"

I did answer it clearly, precisely, definitively.

Others seem not to have a problem understanding the OP.

You claim not to understand it.

That implies that it was answered and you object to it's import.

You don't have to agree with me....I can't force you to be right.

No you didn't answer it clearly, unfortunately.

Imagine asks us to think about a world with "nothing to live or die for". An oppressive global government would be just the opposite of that (something to fight and die for). So I can only consider your analysis incorrect here.

Imagine also asks us to think about a world without countries. A "Global Government" would imply sovereignty and ultimately the existence of one country/nation state. This is not a world without countries, it's a world with one country/nation (which conflicts with Lennon's phrasing in the song). Similar to above, I can only consider your analysis incorrect once again.

Again, I don't think you can deny that at the core the concepts touched on in this song run parallel with that of Buddhists; so, I ask you again - do you also consider Buddhism a "disgusting" practice/set of beliefs?

You can be as oblivious as you like.

Uncensored explained it .......again.


Somehow, you're the only one who can't seem to comprehend.......

 

[KevinWestern]

You can be as oblivious as you like.

Uncensored explained it .......again.

Somehow, you're the only one who can't seem to comprehend.......

Your argument, PoliticalChic, is that I should "just take your opinion as fact" because there are three posters (including yourself) that seem to agree with the OP that you created? That is not a compelling argument.

The song is called "imagine" - it's a fantasy. He's asking us to imagine a world where all the things that make us fight don't exist (ie greed, hunger, countries, religion, etc). It's simple, elegant, and is obviously not based in a tangible reality.

If it were a communist manifesto, he would say things like "imagine the beautiful leader" or "imagine one government" or "imagine one strong nation"; he says none of those things. He says get rid of countries, in fact. No borders, no governments.

In short, you're disgracing a classic tune. It's not a political song; get over it.

 

[PoliticalChic]

You can be as oblivious as you like.

Uncensored explained it .......again.

Somehow, you're the only one who can't seem to comprehend.......

Your argument, PoliticalChic, is that I should "just take your opinion as fact" because there are three posters (including yourself) that seem to agree with the OP that you created? That is not a compelling argument.

The song is called "imagine" - it's a fantasy. He's asking us to imagine a world where all the things that make us fight don't exist (ie greed, hunger, countries, religion, etc). It's simple, elegant, and is obviously not based in a tangible reality.

If it were a communist manifesto, he would say things like "imagine the beautiful leader" or "imagine one government" or "imagine one strong nation"; he says none of those things. He says get rid of countries, in fact. No borders, no governments.

In short, you're disgracing a classic tune. It's not a political song; get over it.

The reason we have this administration is because far too many individuals have perfected the ability to turn a blind eye to reality.....

...and your series of posts is the textbook example.

 

[thanatos144]

No we won't agree it's awesome because it is crap

tapatalk post

A Miley fan I presume? I'm not judging; each listener has a right to his or her own opinion..

Yea that's it I am all about Hanna Montanna.

Still doesn't change the fact that imagine sucks balls. The only way you could enjoy Imagine is if A. you so fucking high you dont know your own name or B. your a fucking idiot who doesn't understand whats being said.....Which are you?

 

[KevinWestern]

The reason we have this administration is because far too many individuals have perfected the ability to turn a blind eye to reality.....

...and your series of posts is the textbook example.

Totally off topic, and does nothing to convince me of your OP. And for the record I'm extremely anti-Obama and anti-Modern Democrats.

 

[thanatos144]

The reason we have this administration is because far too many individuals have perfected the ability to turn a blind eye to reality.....

...and your series of posts is the textbook example.

Totally off topic, and does nothing to convince me of your OP. And for the record I'm extremely anti-Obama and anti-Modern Democrats.

And apparently very pro totalitarian Communism.

 

[Mr Natural]

The reason we have this administration is because far too many individuals have perfected the ability to turn a blind eye to reality.....

...and your series of posts is the textbook example.

Totally off topic, and does nothing to convince me of your OP. And for the record I'm extremely anti-Obama and anti-Modern Democrats.

And apparently very pro totalitarian Communism.

Why, because he happens to find the message in the song uplifting?

Good grief, you people are fucked up beyond repair.

 

[thanatos144]

Totally off topic, and does nothing to convince me of your OP. And for the record I'm extremely anti-Obama and anti-Modern Democrats.

And apparently very pro totalitarian Communism.

Why, because he happens to find the message in the song uplifting?

Good grief, you people are fucked up beyond repair.

You find it uplifting? boy you really are a sheep.

 

[KevinWestern]

The reason we have this administration is because far too many individuals have perfected the ability to turn a blind eye to reality.....

...and your series of posts is the textbook example.

Totally off topic, and does nothing to convince me of your OP. And for the record I'm extremely anti-Obama and anti-Modern Democrats.

And apparently very pro totalitarian Communism.

HAHA, why exactly?

Because I don't believe your opinion that the song "Imagine" is a Communist Manifesto?

Great reasons Thanatos - way to be a complete hack at debating..

.