The Innocence project

[Ravi]

I tend to not hang around where there's trouble - I'm smart like that.

You have a solution that guarantees 100% perfection? Thought not.

you also aren't a minority, which is where most of the mistakes tend to be made. we don't always have a say in the neighborhoods we live in.

a great deal of the problem is shoddy police work and terrible identification testimony. the inter-racial recognition rate is probably about 15% with the wind at your back.

but it's not like any of that affects you, so it's all good, eh?

and i don't think anyone said it had to be perfect. the question asked was what do we owe people whose lives are taken away for no reason.

Hey, you had to have done something really wrong at some point in your life to get pulled into that lineup in the first place. They don't just pluck random people off the street and haul them in.

And Modberts answer is to totally get rid of the death penalty, and just house/clothe/feed murderers forever.

That work for you?

That's just sill, Dis. "Victims" misindentify people all the time. And the law often makes mistakes.

 

[Ravi]

I used to be a big advocate of the death penalty but as I have gotten older and a little wiser I have modified my viewpoint a tad. I believe it is terribly wrong for someone to lose their life based on purely circumstantial evidence. There are too many times where evidence gets screwed up or lost, "modified" etc. On the other hand, in cases like Dahmer or Gary Ridgway I feel there should be the trial. One week later there is a single appeal. After the results of the appeal are heard there is a sentencing hearing where any possible mitigating circumstances are heard and sentence is passed. If the sentence is death then you have a week to set your affairs in order then the sentence is carried out.

There is far too much time between trial and the final act.

Embracing the death penalty is embracing big brother.

Just so you know.

 

[jillian]

I used to be a big advocate of the death penalty but as I have gotten older and a little wiser I have modified my viewpoint a tad. I believe it is terribly wrong for someone to lose their life based on purely circumstantial evidence. There are too many times where evidence gets screwed up or lost, "modified" etc. On the other hand, in cases like Dahmer or Gary Ridgway I feel there should be the trial. One week later there is a single appeal. After the results of the appeal are heard there is a sentencing hearing where any possible mitigating circumstances are heard and sentence is passed. If the sentence is death then you have a week to set your affairs in order then the sentence is carried out.

There is far too much time between trial and the final act.

I agree, but i would give the appeals process only one year.

in which case a lot more innocent people would be killed.

there are deadlines in which to file a notice of appeal. there are then timeframes to file papers; for the prosecution to answer and for the appellant to reply. the court then has time to review the papers, hear oral argument and make a determination. that is the FIRST level of appeals courts. the process then continues.

we're dealing with people's lives here.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

41 in TEXAS... hundreds more throughout the country.

if it were you in prison, you'd be a little less blase

I tend to not hang around where there's trouble - I'm smart like that.

You have a solution that guarantees 100% perfection? Thought not.

you also aren't a minority, which is where most of the mistakes tend to be made. we don't always have a say in the neighborhoods we live in.

a great deal of the problem is shoddy police work and terrible identification testimony. the inter-racial recognition rate is probably about 15% with the wind at your back.

but it's not like any of that affects you, so it's all good, eh?

and i don't think anyone said it had to be perfect. the question asked was what do we owe people whose lives are taken away for no reason.

As far as I know every State has a procedure for reimbursement of those wrongly convicted and held in prison. I am quite sure Texas has a system in place.

However as far as I know no State pays a whole hell of a lot for such people.

This does not effect my opinion of our Justice system nor make me want to STOP supporting the Death Penalty.

A big problem with wrongfully convicted is the police AND the prosecuting attorneys. DA's think of winning as some mark of accomplishment. They ignore the specific charge they are given, which is to ensure Justice for the PEOPLE, not how many people an I convict.

Cops and DA's both get tunnel vision, they invariably DECIDE what happened and then go about proving it. Twisting and lying as needed. Lots of DA's are like the ASSHOLE in the case of the Durham rape case. They withhold evidence and twist what they have to get a win. Most don't get caught.

Cops and lawyers are the problem not the laws. However that goes back to the system being run by HUMANS.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Hey, you had to have done something really wrong at some point in your life to get pulled into that lineup in the first place. They don't just pluck random people off the street and haul them in.

And Modberts answer is to totally get rid of the death penalty, and just house/clothe/feed murderers forever.

That work for you?

The Death Penalty issue boils down to a single question:

Are you willing to have a system that may kill guilty murderers in exchange for the death of innocent people?

My answer is no. It's not a matter of trying to protect murderers. It's a matter of making sure that we have a justice system and not a revenge system as well.

So what happens when you arrest , try and sentence a murderer to life without parole and he keeps killing guards and other inmates?

 

[Skull Pilot]

While not against the death penalty per say, I have serious issues with the legal process of this country.

How many innocent men have been killed? The standard of proof in capital cases needs to be raised significantly.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I used to be a big advocate of the death penalty but as I have gotten older and a little wiser I have modified my viewpoint a tad. I believe it is terribly wrong for someone to lose their life based on purely circumstantial evidence. There are too many times where evidence gets screwed up or lost, "modified" etc. On the other hand, in cases like Dahmer or Gary Ridgway I feel there should be the trial. One week later there is a single appeal. After the results of the appeal are heard there is a sentencing hearing where any possible mitigating circumstances are heard and sentence is passed. If the sentence is death then you have a week to set your affairs in order then the sentence is carried out.

There is far too much time between trial and the final act.

Only in State systems. The Federal System executes them with in 3 to 4 years after all their appeals have been exhausted.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I used to be a big advocate of the death penalty but as I have gotten older and a little wiser I have modified my viewpoint a tad. I believe it is terribly wrong for someone to lose their life based on purely circumstantial evidence. There are too many times where evidence gets screwed up or lost, "modified" etc. On the other hand, in cases like Dahmer or Gary Ridgway I feel there should be the trial. One week later there is a single appeal. After the results of the appeal are heard there is a sentencing hearing where any possible mitigating circumstances are heard and sentence is passed. If the sentence is death then you have a week to set your affairs in order then the sentence is carried out.

There is far too much time between trial and the final act.

I agree, but i would give the appeals process only one year.

in which case a lot more innocent people would be killed.

there are deadlines in which to file a notice of appeal. there are then timeframes to file papers; for the prosecution to answer and for the appellant to reply. the court then has time to review the papers, hear oral argument and make a determination. that is the FIRST level of appeals courts. the process then continues.

we're dealing with people's lives here.

Provide concrete proof an innocent person has been executed.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I agree, but i would give the appeals process only one year.

in which case a lot more innocent people would be killed.

there are deadlines in which to file a notice of appeal. there are then timeframes to file papers; for the prosecution to answer and for the appellant to reply. the court then has time to review the papers, hear oral argument and make a determination. that is the FIRST level of appeals courts. the process then continues.

we're dealing with people's lives here.

Provide concrete proof an innocent person has been executed.

If you believe that not one innocent man has been executed by the state then you, my friend, are in denial.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

in which case a lot more innocent people would be killed.

there are deadlines in which to file a notice of appeal. there are then timeframes to file papers; for the prosecution to answer and for the appellant to reply. the court then has time to review the papers, hear oral argument and make a determination. that is the FIRST level of appeals courts. the process then continues.

we're dealing with people's lives here.

Provide concrete proof an innocent person has been executed.

If you believe that not one innocent man has been executed by the state then you, my friend, are in denial.

Any evidence?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Provide concrete proof an innocent person has been executed.

If you believe that not one innocent man has been executed by the state then you, my friend, are in denial.

Any evidence?

Logic.

Are there now or have there been innocent men convicted of crimes?

The answer is obviously yes.

It is more than reasonable to assume that some of those wrongly convicted were accused of capital offenses and subsequently put to death.

Humans are flawed and make mistakes to assume otherwise is hubris of the worst sort.

How Many Innocent Inmates Are Executed? - Human Rights Magazine Fall 1997

n the last four years, 17 Death Row inmates in the nation have been found innocent and freed. Seven of those men were in Illinois. Many legal advocates in the state and around the country are dismayed that the state's justice system could have repeatedly failed so miserably. Throughout every one of the men's ordeals, corruption, flawed investigations, and inadequate legal representation plagued them. And in the cases of eight of the nine men, it took the intervention of people completely outside of the justice system for them to win back their freedom.

How many have been killed in the past because of our lack of ability to scientifically prove they were not guilty?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

If you believe that not one innocent man has been executed by the state then you, my friend, are in denial.

Any evidence?

Logic.

Are there now or have there been innocent men convicted of crimes?

The answer is obviously yes.

It is more than reasonable to assume that some of those wrongly convicted were accused of capital offenses and subsequently put to death.

Humans are flawed and make mistakes to assume otherwise is hubris of the worst sort.

How Many Innocent Inmates Are Executed? - Human Rights Magazine Fall 1997

n the last four years, 17 Death Row inmates in the nation have been found innocent and freed. Seven of those men were in Illinois. Many legal advocates in the state and around the country are dismayed that the state's justice system could have repeatedly failed so miserably. Throughout every one of the men's ordeals, corruption, flawed investigations, and inadequate legal representation plagued them. And in the cases of eight of the nine men, it took the intervention of people completely outside of the justice system for them to win back their freedom.

How many have been killed in the past because of our lack of ability to scientifically prove they were not guilty?

Except we have evidence of those wrongly convicted and released, There are several groups that have spent 20 years or more trying to prove even one innocent man was executed and yet we have ZERO evidence.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Any evidence?

Logic.

Are there now or have there been innocent men convicted of crimes?

The answer is obviously yes.

It is more than reasonable to assume that some of those wrongly convicted were accused of capital offenses and subsequently put to death.

Humans are flawed and make mistakes to assume otherwise is hubris of the worst sort.

How Many Innocent Inmates Are Executed? - Human Rights Magazine Fall 1997

n the last four years, 17 Death Row inmates in the nation have been found innocent and freed. Seven of those men were in Illinois. Many legal advocates in the state and around the country are dismayed that the state's justice system could have repeatedly failed so miserably. Throughout every one of the men's ordeals, corruption, flawed investigations, and inadequate legal representation plagued them. And in the cases of eight of the nine men, it took the intervention of people completely outside of the justice system for them to win back their freedom.

How many have been killed in the past because of our lack of ability to scientifically prove they were not guilty?

Except we have evidence of those wrongly convicted and released, There are several groups that have spent 20 years or more trying to prove even one innocent man was executed and yet we have ZERO evidence.

And what of those convicted before DNA or other advanced scientific techniques?

Are you willing to bet your life that no mistakes were made then?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Logic.

Are there now or have there been innocent men convicted of crimes?

The answer is obviously yes.

It is more than reasonable to assume that some of those wrongly convicted were accused of capital offenses and subsequently put to death.

Humans are flawed and make mistakes to assume otherwise is hubris of the worst sort.

How Many Innocent Inmates Are Executed? - Human Rights Magazine Fall 1997



How many have been killed in the past because of our lack of ability to scientifically prove they were not guilty?

Except we have evidence of those wrongly convicted and released, There are several groups that have spent 20 years or more trying to prove even one innocent man was executed and yet we have ZERO evidence.

And what of those convicted before DNA or other advanced scientific techniques?

Are you willing to bet your life that no mistakes were made then?

We have cases that go back that far and STILL no evidence. Yet we have evidence of the other. Guess what? I am of the opinion that even if a few people were wrongly put to death the Death Penalty is not only needed but needs to be used MORE now then ever.

Once again get back to me when you have evidence and I will explain how I don't care. Which does not change the fact you have no evidence.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Except we have evidence of those wrongly convicted and released, There are several groups that have spent 20 years or more trying to prove even one innocent man was executed and yet we have ZERO evidence.

And what of those convicted before DNA or other advanced scientific techniques?

Are you willing to bet your life that no mistakes were made then?

We have cases that go back that far and STILL no evidence. Yet we have evidence of the other. Guess what? I am of the opinion that even if a few people were wrongly put to death the Death Penalty is not only needed but needs to be used MORE now then ever.

Once again get back to me when you have evidence and I will explain how I don't care. Which does not change the fact you have no evidence.

So reasonable thinking is beyond you?

Tell me when there is no evidence left to test or no one willing to test what evidence is left how can you be so sure no mistakes were made?

Your certainty of the infallibility of government is disturbing.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

And what of those convicted before DNA or other advanced scientific techniques?

Are you willing to bet your life that no mistakes were made then?

We have cases that go back that far and STILL no evidence. Yet we have evidence of the other. Guess what? I am of the opinion that even if a few people were wrongly put to death the Death Penalty is not only needed but needs to be used MORE now then ever.

Once again get back to me when you have evidence and I will explain how I don't care. Which does not change the fact you have no evidence.

So reasonable thinking is beyond you?

Tell me when there is no evidence left to test or no one willing to test what evidence is left how can you be so sure no mistakes were made?

Your certainty of the infallibility of government is disturbing.

RETARD ALERT. I never said the Government is infallible. Go ahead provide such a quote from me. What I said and will continue to say is YOU can provide evidence all the way back to the 70's that people were wrongly convicted and have been released, YET, you can NOT provide a SINGLE case of someone put to death being wrongly convicted. WHY? And what does that say? It says to me it has not happened in the last 30 years. I mean really? You have active groups that have been trying for decades to prove JUST that and have not done so yet.

Our Justice system sucks but given my choice of the worlds systems, guess what? I chose OURS. And I believe it gets it RIGHT a hell of a lot more then it gets it wrong.

 

[jillian]

Provide concrete proof an innocent person has been executed.

If you believe that not one innocent man has been executed by the state then you, my friend, are in denial.

Any evidence?

actually....

Posthumous DNA Testing in Texas Undermines Propriety of Execution
Seth — November 15, 2010 @ 1:39 PM — Comments (1)
Late last week, Mitotyping, a DNA lab in State College, PA, released results that demonstrate that Texas should not have executed Claude Jones in 2000. The Texas Observer reports:

Claude Jones always claimed that he wasn’t the man who walked into an East Texas liquor store in 1989 and shot the owner. He professed his innocence right up until the moment he was strapped to a gurney in the Texas execution chamber and put to death on Dec. 7, 2000. His murder conviction was based on a single piece of forensic evidence recovered from the crime scene—a strand of hair—that prosecutors claimed belonged to Jones.

But DNA tests completed this week at the request of the Observer and the New York-based Innocence Project show the hair didn’t belong to Jones after all. The day before his death in December 2000, Jones asked for a stay of execution so the strand of hair could be submitted for DNA testing. He was denied by then-Gov. George W. Bush.

Posthumous DNA Testing in Texas Undermines Propriety of Execution | Innocence Project of Florida

 

[RetiredGySgt]

If you believe that not one innocent man has been executed by the state then you, my friend, are in denial.

Any evidence?

actually....

Posthumous DNA Testing in Texas Undermines Propriety of Execution
Seth — November 15, 2010 @ 1:39 PM — Comments (1)
Late last week, Mitotyping, a DNA lab in State College, PA, released results that demonstrate that Texas should not have executed Claude Jones in 2000. The Texas Observer reports:

Claude Jones always claimed that he wasn’t the man who walked into an East Texas liquor store in 1989 and shot the owner. He professed his innocence right up until the moment he was strapped to a gurney in the Texas execution chamber and put to death on Dec. 7, 2000. His murder conviction was based on a single piece of forensic evidence recovered from the crime scene—a strand of hair—that prosecutors claimed belonged to Jones.

But DNA tests completed this week at the request of the Observer and the New York-based Innocence Project show the hair didn’t belong to Jones after all. The day before his death in December 2000, Jones asked for a stay of execution so the strand of hair could be submitted for DNA testing. He was denied by then-Gov. George W. Bush.

Posthumous DNA Testing in Texas Undermines Propriety of Execution | Innocence Project of Florida

One possible execution in 30 years. I would say the system works pretty damn good, wouldn't you?

 

[del]

Any evidence?

actually....

Posthumous DNA Testing in Texas Undermines Propriety of Execution
Seth — November 15, 2010 @ 1:39 PM — Comments (1)
Late last week, Mitotyping, a DNA lab in State College, PA, released results that demonstrate that Texas should not have executed Claude Jones in 2000. The Texas Observer reports:

Claude Jones always claimed that he wasn’t the man who walked into an East Texas liquor store in 1989 and shot the owner. He professed his innocence right up until the moment he was strapped to a gurney in the Texas execution chamber and put to death on Dec. 7, 2000. His murder conviction was based on a single piece of forensic evidence recovered from the crime scene—a strand of hair—that prosecutors claimed belonged to Jones.

But DNA tests completed this week at the request of the Observer and the New York-based Innocence Project show the hair didn’t belong to Jones after all. The day before his death in December 2000, Jones asked for a stay of execution so the strand of hair could be submitted for DNA testing. He was denied by then-Gov. George W. Bush.

Posthumous DNA Testing in Texas Undermines Propriety of Execution | Innocence Project of Florida

One possible execution in 30 years. I would say the system works pretty damn good, wouldn't you?

tell it to the dead guy.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

actually....



Posthumous DNA Testing in Texas Undermines Propriety of Execution | Innocence Project of Florida

One possible execution in 30 years. I would say the system works pretty damn good, wouldn't you?

tell it to the dead guy.

Over 300 MILLION people live in the US. of that according to a recent thread 30 million are in jail. Now do the math.... 1 guy out of 30 million? Pretty damn good system.

The death penalty should be used more often and the executions should be swift sure and BROADCAST. States should use the Federal system, the Feds manage to execute in 2 to 4 years as States can take 20 or more.

Further we should have a 2 tier justice system. Those convicted with little to no chance of retraining should be locked up forever or executed, those with a chance to retrain should be kept away from the first group and given every effort to get them off the fast track to prison.