The Fake racial history of Jews

[Ozmar]

Ok, so the Ashkenazi Jews came from the west Rhine area of what is now Germany. And before that they came from the middle east... where's the disparity here at all?

 

[R.C. Christian]

It never ceases to amaze me how a simple dicussion on jewry devolves so quickly into protests of anti-semitism or god forbid ANTI-ISRAEL!

 

[teapartysamurai]

from the linked info:
I'm not sure how he could have arrived at this conclusion, being that genetic/DNA studies done a few years ago basically showed extraordinarily similar genetic ties between the Palestinians and the Jews. The primary (and more significant) differences are religious and cultural.

That's what I was wondering too. Genetic research counters his claim.

Maybe the book is so popular because he's bringing his arguments at an interesting angle. My first thought was that it's just another anti-semitic screed, but I guess not since it's selling well in Israel.

i'd like to see something from a magazine that isn't a 'socialist review' in discussing the book. that said, it does sound like an anti-semitic screed...

mostly one has to wonder about the motivation of people trying to de-jew the jews.

Okay, the world is going to end as we know it. I actually agree with the assessment of Jillian.

 

[Ravi]

An anti-Jew book review written by an anti-Jew reviewer two years ago.

Oh, my! Why should anyone believe this book was a bestseller?

 

[loosecannon]

Maybe the book is so popular because he's bringing his arguments at an interesting angle. My first thought was that it's just another anti-semitic screed, but I guess not since it's selling well in Israel.

Interesting question. The Jewish people are a fairly open-minded society, and have significant numbers of people practicing different faiths within their country, so this could account for part of it, but it still seems strange for the author to claim that they have no history in the region.

It is possible that both are true.

The Ashkenazi Jews spent about 1000 years in Europe but some of their genetic material can be traced back to the current location of Israel.

But that said the Ashkenazis are not ethnically pure semites. Their faith, not their genetic purity, is what defined them as a group until 100 years ago. Which is the author's actual assertion.

Which deeply waters down any claim to the land of Israel via ancestoral legacy. Meanwhile it strengthens Palestinian's claims to the exact same land.

 

[loosecannon]

i'd like to see something from a magazine that isn't a 'socialist review' in discussing the book. that said, it does sound like an anti-semitic screed...

mostly one has to wonder about the motivation of people trying to de-jew the jews.

about the author:

Shlomo Sand (pronounced Zand; Hebrew: שלמה זנד&#8206, born 10 September 1946, is professor of history at Tel Aviv University and author of the controversial book The Invention of the Jewish People (Verso Books, 2009). His main areas of teaching are nationalism, film as history and French intellectual history.[1]

Sand was born in Linz, Austria, to Polish Jewish survivors of the Holocaust. His parents had Communist and anti-imperialist views and refused to receive compensations from Germany for their suffering during the Second World War. Sand spent his early years in a displaced persons camp, and moved with the family to Jaffa in 1948. He was expelled from high school at the age of sixteen, and only completed his bagrut following his military service.[2] He eventually left the Union of Israeli Communist Youth (Banki) and joined the more radical, and anti-Zionist, Matzpen in 1968. Sand resigned from Matzpen in 1970 due to his disillusionment with the organisation.[3][4]

He declined an offer by the Israeli Communist Party Rakah to be sent to do cinema studies in Poland, and in 1975 Sand graduated with a BA in History from Tel Aviv University. From 1975 to 1985, after winning a scholarship, he studied and later taught in Paris, receiving an MA in French History and a PhD for his thesis[5] on "George Sorel and Marxism". Since 1982, Sand has taught at Tel Aviv University as well as at the University of California, Berkeley and the École des hautes études en sciences sociales in Paris.[1]

Shlomo Sand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[lizzie]

Maybe the book is so popular because he's bringing his arguments at an interesting angle. My first thought was that it's just another anti-semitic screed, but I guess not since it's selling well in Israel.

Interesting question. The Jewish people are a fairly open-minded society, and have significant numbers of people practicing different faiths within their country, so this could account for part of it, but it still seems strange for the author to claim that they have no history in the region.

It is possible that both are true.

The Ashkenazi Jews spent about 1000 years in Europe but some of their genetic material can be traced back to the current location of Israel.

But that said the Ashkenazis are not ethnically pure semites. Their faith, not their genetic purity, is what defined them as a group until 100 years ago. Which is the author's actual assertion.

Which deeply waters down any claim to the land of Israel via ancestoral legacy. Meanwhile it strengthens Palestinian's claims to the exact same land.

Based on genetics, yes, but there never was a "Palestine", and the people living in that region at the time that Israel as a state was formed, were pretty much tribal groups loosely ruled by Syria.

 

[daveman]

It never ceases to amaze me how a simple dicussion on jewry devolves so quickly into protests of anti-semitism or god forbid ANTI-ISRAEL!

That ship has sailed:
"...the only political solution to the country's conflict with the Palestinians is to abolish the Jewish state."

 

[Hister]

Interesting question. The Jewish people are a fairly open-minded society, and have significant numbers of people practicing different faiths within their country, so this could account for part of it, but it still seems strange for the author to claim that they have no history in the region.

It is possible that both are true.

The Ashkenazi Jews spent about 1000 years in Europe but some of their genetic material can be traced back to the current location of Israel.

But that said the Ashkenazis are not ethnically pure semites. Their faith, not their genetic purity, is what defined them as a group until 100 years ago. Which is the author's actual assertion.

Which deeply waters down any claim to the land of Israel via ancestoral legacy. Meanwhile it strengthens Palestinian's claims to the exact same land.

Based on genetics, yes, but there never was a "Palestine", and the people living in that region at the time that Israel as a state was formed, were pretty much tribal groups loosely ruled by Syria.

So that made it ok to kick all the arabs off their land? When the jewish problem was above all a problem of europe to begin with, not palestine?

 

[Wicked Jester]

from the linked info:
I'm not sure how he could have arrived at this conclusion, being that genetic/DNA studies done a few years ago basically showed extraordinarily similar genetic ties between the Palestinians and the Jews. The primary (and more significant) differences are religious and cultural.

That's what I was wondering too. Genetic research counters his claim.

Maybe the book is so popular because he's bringing his arguments at an interesting angle. My first thought was that it's just another anti-semitic screed, but I guess not since it's selling well in Israel.

i'd like to see something from a magazine that isn't a 'socialist review' in discussing the book. that said, it does sound like an anti-semitic screed...

mostly one has to wonder about the motivation of people trying to de-jew the jews.

Come on Jillian, you know you don't have to wonder the motivation.

 

[Kalam]

Silly argument this professor is making. The illegitimacy of Israel has nothing to do with the "racial history" of Jews.

 

[Hister]

Silly argument this professor is making. The illegitimacy of Israel has nothing to do with the "racial history" of Jews.

Is Israel illegitimate because they brought toilet paper to Palestine? Or because of the British mandate...? Or both?

 

[lizzie]

So that made it ok to kick all the arabs off their land? When the jewish problem was above all a problem of europe to begin with, not palestine?

Being that it happend before I was born, I didn't have any say in the matter. You'll have to take it up with the UN.

 

[Shogun]

Interesting question. The Jewish people are a fairly open-minded society, and have significant numbers of people practicing different faiths within their country, so this could account for part of it, but it still seems strange for the author to claim that they have no history in the region.

It is possible that both are true.

The Ashkenazi Jews spent about 1000 years in Europe but some of their genetic material can be traced back to the current location of Israel.

But that said the Ashkenazis are not ethnically pure semites. Their faith, not their genetic purity, is what defined them as a group until 100 years ago. Which is the author's actual assertion.

Which deeply waters down any claim to the land of Israel via ancestoral legacy. Meanwhile it strengthens Palestinian's claims to the exact same land.

Based on genetics, yes, but there never was a "Palestine", and the people living in that region at the time that Israel as a state was formed, were pretty much tribal groups loosely ruled by Syria.

yea... all those maps from the 1900's that say Palestine.. They're lying to us!!?!?!

 

[Shogun]

That's what I was wondering too. Genetic research counters his claim.

Maybe the book is so popular because he's bringing his arguments at an interesting angle. My first thought was that it's just another anti-semitic screed, but I guess not since it's selling well in Israel.

i'd like to see something from a magazine that isn't a 'socialist review' in discussing the book. that said, it does sound like an anti-semitic screed...

mostly one has to wonder about the motivation of people trying to de-jew the jews.

Come on Jillian, you know you don't have to wonder the motivation.

ohhh here it comes! HERE IT COMES!!!

 

[elvis]

i'd like to see something from a magazine that isn't a 'socialist review' in discussing the book. that said, it does sound like an anti-semitic screed...

mostly one has to wonder about the motivation of people trying to de-jew the jews.

Come on Jillian, you know you don't have to wonder the motivation.

ohhh here it comes! HERE IT COMES!!!

Good evening, Shogie.

 

[loosecannon]

Interesting question. The Jewish people are a fairly open-minded society, and have significant numbers of people practicing different faiths within their country, so this could account for part of it, but it still seems strange for the author to claim that they have no history in the region.

It is possible that both are true.

The Ashkenazi Jews spent about 1000 years in Europe but some of their genetic material can be traced back to the current location of Israel.

But that said the Ashkenazis are not ethnically pure semites. Their faith, not their genetic purity, is what defined them as a group until 100 years ago. Which is the author's actual assertion.

Which deeply waters down any claim to the land of Israel via ancestoral legacy. Meanwhile it strengthens Palestinian's claims to the exact same land.

Based on genetics, yes, but there never was a "Palestine", and the people living in that region at the time that Israel as a state was formed, were pretty much tribal groups loosely ruled by Syria.

True, and there was apparently never a "Judea"either, no Camelot dwelling Kind David or Solomon.

The jewish religion is real and is practiced by people of all ethnicities. But there simply is no such thing as a Jewish race or ethnicity.

Semites are Arabs.

And the holocaust didn't target the Jews either.

Estimates vary but almost all speculate that between 1/3 and 1/2 of all holocaust victims were Jewish.

All things considered the justification for a Jewish state in Israel is shaky at best. Esp since Palestinians are apparently the exact same people, practicing a different religion and without the euro baggage.

But we have known that all along, 12 tribes, one of which ostensibly became the tribe of Israel. but they are all the same people.

 

[loosecannon]

It is possible that both are true.

The Ashkenazi Jews spent about 1000 years in Europe but some of their genetic material can be traced back to the current location of Israel.

But that said the Ashkenazis are not ethnically pure semites. Their faith, not their genetic purity, is what defined them as a group until 100 years ago. Which is the author's actual assertion.

Which deeply waters down any claim to the land of Israel via ancestoral legacy. Meanwhile it strengthens Palestinian's claims to the exact same land.

Based on genetics, yes, but there never was a "Palestine", and the people living in that region at the time that Israel as a state was formed, were pretty much tribal groups loosely ruled by Syria.

yea... all those maps from the 1900's that say Palestine.. They're lying to us!!?!?!

It was a British protectorate. I spose that is as legitimate as the boundaries of Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, India and even Poland.

 

[loosecannon]

Silly argument this professor is making. The illegitimacy of Israel has nothing to do with the "racial history" of Jews.

Sure it does. The entire basis for the creation of Israel was based on a claim of ancestoral homeland.

But there never was a Jewish state called Judea. The Jews were never exiled, and the Palestinians and Syrians have a stronger claim to the same land.

 

[Shogun]

Based on genetics, yes, but there never was a "Palestine", and the people living in that region at the time that Israel as a state was formed, were pretty much tribal groups loosely ruled by Syria.

yea... all those maps from the 1900's that say Palestine.. They're lying to us!!?!?!

It was a British protectorate. I spose that is as legitimate as the boundaries of Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, India and even Poland.

WOA! How can those Native 'MERKINS have counted UNLESS THEY WERE WEARING SHOES AND USING PAPER MONEY LIKE US!?!?!?!?!?!