The F&F Tealeaves......

[Trajan]

Well when I see CNN correct on an issue, I'll be shocked. Look these guys tried to get the contractors on laying off on Jan2, and they are giving notice on Nov 2, so it has to be political. Ooops, the LAW requires them to give 60 days notice and they were STUNNED to learn this. And guess what 60 days notice is? yep Nov 2. I love it.

Both sides are playing politics with the issue, but who prompted this confrontation? That's right. Issa.

really? are you saying they never ever should have started any of this?

because unless thats your take, the rest is all on holder...yup, thats right and, right now it can end, he can turn over the doc's hes been asked for. He turned them over toi the IG, why not congress? did you know that?


I have to assume you are aware of all of the pertinent points over the last year or so re: this case?
The out of nowhere promotion to DC of the dept/regional head of ATF down there who knew all of the ins and outs fo the case...the letters issued by the DOJ to Congress then retracted and issued with new or different "facts", Holders no I didn't know, then the email that showed he did, many before he said so etc.

The Pres said he knew NOTHING of F&F till he saw it on the news.....on air, yet he exercises exec. priv....why again? Because he needs to show balls? Its political tit for tat? ...why again?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

With all due respect:

People are claiming that F&F is directly responsible for Terry's death. So it's not a secondary issue. To hear some posters say on here, Obama took the gun, personally put it in the hand of a mexican hitman, and pointed at Terry.

There is so much useless hyperbole about this issue that I don't think either side really gets it. They think they do, but they don't. That is why the CNN article was so good.

I agree it was a dumbshit idea. That doesn't make it criminal.

The FBI said so. The ATF disagreed, but the ATF was also the ones that started fast and the furious.


Now
1. border agent dead
2. border agent killed by a AK47
3. Two weapons found at the shooting were two weapons traced back to the program fast and the furious.
ALL of this is moot since obama used executive privilege what is he hiding.

Is there anything more definitive than this?

Fast and Furious: FBI report at odds with ATF claim on weapons - latimes.com

It sounds like, ballastically the FBI couldn't rule the weapon in or out.

"Border Patrol agent Brian Terry was shot with one bullet and died shortly after. One of the suspected illegal aliens, later identified as Manuel Osorio-Arellanes, was also shot."

Two firearms were recovered at the scene that are believed to belong to the suspects, the documents say. Officials were planning to take Osorio-Arellanes' fingerprints to compare with those found on the two weapons.

This week, the Terry family received the autopsy report, which shows that Terry was shot once in the lower back, about 29 inches down from the right shoulder, Kent Terry said. Brian Terry was trying to turn, likely for cover, when he was shot, Kent Terry said. The bullet found inside his body was one used with AK-47s, he said.

And here the kicker in the gut to you

The summary provided in the search warrants is only a snapshot and does not include all facts known by investigators, FBI agents wrote in the three separate search-warrant requests filed in U.S. District Court in late December.

Killed with a bullet from an AK 47 ruled not friendly fire.

This week, the Terry family received the autopsy report, which shows that Terry was shot once in the lower back, about 29 inches down from the right shoulder, Kent Terry said. Brian Terry was trying to turn, likely for cover, when he was shot, Kent Terry said. The bullet found inside his body was one used with AK-47s, he said.

The report gave the family some closure, and it erased any doubt about friendly fire being a possibility in the fatal shooting, because agents don't use AK-47s, Kent Terry said. The FBI announced in mid-February that it had ruled out friendly fire, but Kent Terry remained skeptical because he hadn't seen the autopsy.

Records show agents fired beanbags in fatal border gunfight
on Junes 20, 2012 obama invokes executive privilege meaning he had knowledge fast and the furious. and is covering up the operation. When obama did this what Terry was killed with became MOOT.

 

[Darkwind]

Both sides are playing politics with the issue, but who prompted this confrontation? That's right. Issa.

The person who signed off on letting guns walk and getting a border agent killed is who is responsible for this confrontation.

How is it that every fucking person on this forum who defends this administration walks right on by the fact that crimes have been committed and it points to our government, specifically, the justice department?

Why isn't any of you fucks outraged that innocent Mexican citizens and a border agent is dead because of someone in this issue?

Only one side is playing politics, and it isn't' Issa.

That would be Bush's last AG, Mukasey.

that would be a lie since F&F did not start UNTIL 2009....AFTER Bush left office. You are one of those fucks I was talking about.

 

[jillian]

So has the gun that killed Terry actually been linked to F&F? Why is there even debate about this?

Why? Because thousands of weapons were allowed, even encouraged by the US Gov't, to be sold to known Mexican criminals and as a result a lot of people were killed. Whether these particular weapons were involved is really a secondary issue, what the hell were we doing contributing to the problem. And even worse, the DOJ did not provide all pertinent information and documents to indicate what the whole truth was. It was a dumbshit idea, I don't care what it's origin was, the current DOJ should've scotched it. And when it blew up they should've released everything they had on it. The fact that they didn't looks suspicious, and at the very least appears to be political brinksmanship.

With all due respect:

People are claiming that F&F is directly responsible for Terry's death. So it's not a secondary issue. To hear some posters say on here, Obama took the gun, personally put it in the hand of a mexican hitman, and pointed at Terry.

There is so much useless hyperbole about this issue that I don't think either side really gets it. They think they do, but they don't. That is why the CNN article was so good.

I agree it was a dumbshit idea. That doesn't make it criminal.

they also might want to acknowledge it was a bush administration idea.

why haven't they brought in mukasey to testify before their little "committee"?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Why? Because thousands of weapons were allowed, even encouraged by the US Gov't, to be sold to known Mexican criminals and as a result a lot of people were killed. Whether these particular weapons were involved is really a secondary issue, what the hell were we doing contributing to the problem. And even worse, the DOJ did not provide all pertinent information and documents to indicate what the whole truth was. It was a dumbshit idea, I don't care what it's origin was, the current DOJ should've scotched it. And when it blew up they should've released everything they had on it. The fact that they didn't looks suspicious, and at the very least appears to be political brinksmanship.

With all due respect:

People are claiming that F&F is directly responsible for Terry's death. So it's not a secondary issue. To hear some posters say on here, Obama took the gun, personally put it in the hand of a mexican hitman, and pointed at Terry.

There is so much useless hyperbole about this issue that I don't think either side really gets it. They think they do, but they don't. That is why the CNN article was so good.

I agree it was a dumbshit idea. That doesn't make it criminal.

they also might want to acknowledge it was a bush administration idea.

why haven't they brought in mukasey to testify before their little "committee"?

No it wasn't Wide receiver was stopped when it was found out that the weapons could not be tracked
Fast and the furious was not controlled or done with the knowledge of the Mexican government and would still be used if Brian Terry had not been killed.

 

[Charles_Main]

Well when I see CNN correct on an issue, I'll be shocked. Look these guys tried to get the contractors on laying off on Jan2, and they are giving notice on Nov 2, so it has to be political. Ooops, the LAW requires them to give 60 days notice and they were STUNNED to learn this. And guess what 60 days notice is? yep Nov 2. I love it.

Both sides are playing politics with the issue, but who prompted this confrontation? That's right. Issa.

BS, Clearly Holder and His Boss.

 

[Si modo]

The person who signed off on letting guns walk and getting a border agent killed is who is responsible for this confrontation.

How is it that every fucking person on this forum who defends this administration walks right on by the fact that crimes have been committed and it points to our government, specifically, the justice department?

Why isn't any of you fucks outraged that innocent Mexican citizens and a border agent is dead because of someone in this issue?

Only one side is playing politics, and it isn't' Issa.

Fucking ignoramus.

You are using the deths of Terry and the innocent Mexicans as a men's of advancing your agenda. What crime are you talking about?

Can anyone actually, with a reasonable degree of confidence, link a weapon from F&F to Terry's death?

Or are we just making assumptions?

Well, we can definitively link a FF weapon to the death of another agent.

But, she was executed in Mexico, so that doesn't count.

With respect to the FBI report and the ATF, it seems we don't know why they are at odds about what is definitive and what isn't.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Fucking ignoramus.

You are using the deths of Terry and the innocent Mexicans as a men's of advancing your agenda. What crime are you talking about?

Can anyone actually, with a reasonable degree of confidence, link a weapon from F&F to Terry's death?

Or are we just making assumptions?

Well, we can definitively link a FF weapon to the death of another agent.

But, she was executed in Mexico, so that doesn't count.

With respect to the FBI report and the ATF, it seems we don't know why they are at odds about what is definitive and what isn't.

ATF was the ones doing fast and the furious, why would they want one of their guns linked to the death of a border guard?

 

[ConservaDerrps]

Man, I can't believe how many gun rights were taken away in this country because of F&F...

 

[Si modo]

Man, I can't believe how many gun rights were taken away in this country because of F&F...

I can't believe how many US agents died because of FF.

 

[ConservaDerrps]

Man, I can't believe how many gun rights were taken away in this country because of F&F...

I can't believe how many US agents died because of FF.

Yes, we all know that's really what outrages you guys so much, the death of Americans for no reason...

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Man, I can't believe how many gun rights were taken away in this country because of F&F...

Sadly WITHOUT of the death of Brain Terry we would have never heard about fast and the furious just news of Mexicans being killed with guns from America.
Next we see obama on the tv pushing for gun control laws.
Fand F slapped him in the face and stopped him from making that speech.

 

[Si modo]

Man, I can't believe how many gun rights were taken away in this country because of F&F...

I can't believe how many US agents died because of FF.

Yes, we all know that's really what outrages you guys so much, the death of Americans for no reason...

LOL. Deflection fail.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Man, I can't believe how many gun rights were taken away in this country because of F&F...

I can't believe how many US agents died because of FF.

Yes, we all know that's really what outrages you guys so much, the death of Americans for no reason...

Are you trying to blame bush for Vietnam?
Vietnam started by a democrat LBJ ended by a republican Nixon

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I can't believe how many US agents died because of FF.

Yes, we all know that's really what outrages you guys so much, the death of Americans for no reason...

LOL. Deflection fail.

I think he's trying to blame bush for Vietnam

 

[Si modo]

Yes, we all know that's really what outrages you guys so much, the death of Americans for no reason...

LOL. Deflection fail.

I think he's trying to blame bush for Vietnam

 

[LoneLaugher]

You nutters are gonna go with the anti 2nd Amendment conspiracy theory.

Excellent. Watching you idiots fall in line over such an implausible idea is both fun and tragic.

You'll do anything to avoid having to talk about Obama's successes.

 

[Si modo]

You nutters are gonna go with the anti 2nd Amendment conspiracy theory.

Excellent. Watching you idiots fall in line over such an implausible idea is both fun and tragic.

You'll do anything to avoid having to talk about Obama's successes.

How many success points for dead Border agents, again?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

You nutters are gonna go with the anti 2nd Amendment conspiracy theory.

Excellent. Watching you idiots fall in line over such an implausible idea is both fun and tragic.

You'll do anything to avoid having to talk about Obama's successes.

This is not a conspiracy theory. you fucking moron
Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations - CBS News Investigates - CBS News

 

[GuyPinestra]

"Lying" means there was mens rea. A misstatement doesn't equate to a lie. Holder could have indeed been lying, but at this time, it is presumptive to claim he was.

Oh fuck you.... I dont care what I say..... you are a hack and a schill for Obama and his minions, and will defend them no matter what.

You are a disgrace


I bring you proof that Attorney General Mukasey was not the one who started Fast & Furious, and this is your response... pathetic.

Bullshit! Here's the memo:

The Memo Michael Mukasey Got On ATF's Gun Walking | TPM Document Collection

That memo is dated Nov. 2007, about 2 years before Fast and Furious started.

Try again...