The F&F Tealeaves......

[Lovebears65]

Well when I see CNN correct on an issue, I'll be shocked. Look these guys tried to get the contractors on laying off on Jan2, and they are giving notice on Nov 2, so it has to be political. Ooops, the LAW requires them to give 60 days notice and they were STUNNED to learn this. And guess what 60 days notice is? yep Nov 2. I love it.

Both sides are playing politics with the issue, but who prompted this confrontation? That's right. Issa.

How is it so political when they started this over a year ago..It is ISSA job

 

[Wiseacre]

So has the gun that killed Terry actually been linked to F&F? Why is there even debate about this?

Why? Because thousands of weapons were allowed, even encouraged by the US Gov't, to be sold to known Mexican criminals and as a result a lot of people were killed. Whether these particular weapons were involved is really a secondary issue, what the hell were we doing contributing to the problem. And even worse, the DOJ did not provide all pertinent information and documents to indicate what the whole truth was. It was a dumbshit idea, I don't care what it's origin was, the current DOJ should've scotched it. And when it blew up they should've released everything they had on it. The fact that they didn't looks suspicious, and at the very least appears to be political brinksmanship.

 

[jillian]

Well when I see CNN correct on an issue, I'll be shocked. Look these guys tried to get the contractors on laying off on Jan2, and they are giving notice on Nov 2, so it has to be political. Ooops, the LAW requires them to give 60 days notice and they were STUNNED to learn this. And guess what 60 days notice is? yep Nov 2. I love it.

Both sides are playing politics with the issue, but who prompted this confrontation? That's right. Issa.

he said all he cared about was his investigation a day...

 

[ConservaDerrps]

obama IS the most corrupt president we ever had. Issa was only stating the obvious.

Once again a Conservative shows their complete disdain for what is actually true.

-Andrew Johnson was actually brought up on impeachment charges and escaped being thrown out of office by ONE vote.

-President Warren G. Harding was deeply embroiled in the Teapot Dome scandal

-President Nixon had Watergate

-President Reagan had Iran Contra

-President Bush I's hands were ALL OVER Iran Contra, and he still got elected

-President Bush II got us into a war in Iraq on false pretenses.

History is your friend.

 

[Synthaholic]

Oh fuck you.... I dont care what I say..... you are a hack and a schill for Obama and his minions, and will defend them no matter what.

You are a disgrace


I bring you proof that Attorney General Mukasey was not the one who started Fast & Furious, and this is your response... pathetic.

Bullshit! Here's the memo:

The Memo Michael Mukasey Got On ATF's Gun Walking | TPM Document Collection

Under the Bush administration, several sting operations were conducted in which straw buyers were allowed to purchase guns and attempts were made to follow the guns to, and in some cases over, the border. The largest and most well known operation was called “Wide Receiver”. The other operations were similar. During these operations approximately 200-250 firearms “got away”. The fact that some guns did cross the border is the only similarity between the Bush era program and Fast and Furious.

Let’s compare the two programs:

Cooperation with Mexico:
Wide Receiver: Mexican Law Enforcement notified, Mexico consented and was a full partner.
Fast and Furious: Mexico intentionally kept in the dark. No coordination or consent.

Surveillance of Firearms:
Wide Receiver: Agents attempted to keep track of the guns at all times.
Fast and Furious: Agents were ordered not to track the guns after they were purchased.

Use of Tracking Devices:
Wide Receiver: Extensive – placed in every lot of guns purchased
Fast and Furious: One “agent built” device in one gun

Performance of Tracking Devices:
Wide Receiver: Smugglers figured out how to defeat trackers
Fast and Furious: Smugglers didn’t have to do anything

Number of Firearms Sent to Cartels:
Wide Receiver: About 250
Fast and Furious: Exact number unknown, but over 2,500

Actions at the Border:
Wide Receiver: Attempted to hand off surveillance to Mexican law enforcement
Fast and Furious: ATF worked with Customs to make sure guns were not stopped at border

Reaction to guns “getting away”:
Wide Receiver: Program terminated. William Newell wrote memo saying “never again”
Fast and Furious: Program continued – recovered guns tracked and mapped.
​

Reasoned Politics: Wide Receiver vs. Fast and Furious

Sorry, Si, but I don't trust your link. He makes these statements and doesn't back up any of them with links. Just another blogger.

Did you read his "about me"? What are his qualifications to make these claims? All he basically says is he loves Jaysus.

Oh, and also: he claims that 200-250 guns "got away" under the Bush AG - how do we know that one of those guns didn't kill Border Agent Terry?

 

[geauxtohell]

So has the gun that killed Terry actually been linked to F&F? Why is there even debate about this?

Why? Because thousands of weapons were allowed, even encouraged by the US Gov't, to be sold to known Mexican criminals and as a result a lot of people were killed. Whether these particular weapons were involved is really a secondary issue, what the hell were we doing contributing to the problem. And even worse, the DOJ did not provide all pertinent information and documents to indicate what the whole truth was. It was a dumbshit idea, I don't care what it's origin was, the current DOJ should've scotched it. And when it blew up they should've released everything they had on it. The fact that they didn't looks suspicious, and at the very least appears to be political brinksmanship.

With all due respect:

People are claiming that F&F is directly responsible for Terry's death. So it's not a secondary issue. To hear some posters say on here, Obama took the gun, personally put it in the hand of a mexican hitman, and pointed at Terry.

There is so much useless hyperbole about this issue that I don't think either side really gets it. They think they do, but they don't. That is why the CNN article was so good.

I agree it was a dumbshit idea. That doesn't make it criminal.

 

[geauxtohell]

Well when I see CNN correct on an issue, I'll be shocked. Look these guys tried to get the contractors on laying off on Jan2, and they are giving notice on Nov 2, so it has to be political. Ooops, the LAW requires them to give 60 days notice and they were STUNNED to learn this. And guess what 60 days notice is? yep Nov 2. I love it.

Both sides are playing politics with the issue, but who prompted this confrontation? That's right. Issa.

How is it so political when they started this over a year ago..It is ISSA job

Is it Issa's job to investigate the President every 7 days a week, 40 weeks a year?

He seems to think it is.

You can understand how we have a hard time taking this serious, right?

 

[Synthaholic]

Darrell Issa voted for this program on June 10, 2008!

HR 6028 - Assistance for Mexico and Central America for Anti-Drug Programs (Merida Program) - Key Vote - Project Vote Smart




ETA, for clarity: the reason that page mentions Issa is because it is a direct link from Issa's voting record. If I had used another Congresscritter's 'yes' vote record, it would have included their name.

 

[Wiseacre]

So has the gun that killed Terry actually been linked to F&F? Why is there even debate about this?

Why? Because thousands of weapons were allowed, even encouraged by the US Gov't, to be sold to known Mexican criminals and as a result a lot of people were killed. Whether these particular weapons were involved is really a secondary issue, what the hell were we doing contributing to the problem. And even worse, the DOJ did not provide all pertinent information and documents to indicate what the whole truth was. It was a dumbshit idea, I don't care what it's origin was, the current DOJ should've scotched it. And when it blew up they should've released everything they had on it. The fact that they didn't looks suspicious, and at the very least appears to be political brinksmanship.

With all due respect:

People are claiming that F&F is directly responsible for Terry's death. So it's not a secondary issue. To hear some posters say on here, Obama took the gun, personally put it in the hand of a mexican hitman, and pointed at Terry.

There is so much useless hyperbole about this issue that I don't think either side really gets it. They think they do, but they don't. That is why the CNN article was so good.

I agree it was a dumbshit idea. That doesn't make it criminal.

So, are you part of the problem or part of the solution?

 

[geauxtohell]

Why? Because thousands of weapons were allowed, even encouraged by the US Gov't, to be sold to known Mexican criminals and as a result a lot of people were killed. Whether these particular weapons were involved is really a secondary issue, what the hell were we doing contributing to the problem. And even worse, the DOJ did not provide all pertinent information and documents to indicate what the whole truth was. It was a dumbshit idea, I don't care what it's origin was, the current DOJ should've scotched it. And when it blew up they should've released everything they had on it. The fact that they didn't looks suspicious, and at the very least appears to be political brinksmanship.

With all due respect:

People are claiming that F&F is directly responsible for Terry's death. So it's not a secondary issue. To hear some posters say on here, Obama took the gun, personally put it in the hand of a mexican hitman, and pointed at Terry.

There is so much useless hyperbole about this issue that I don't think either side really gets it. They think they do, but they don't. That is why the CNN article was so good.

I agree it was a dumbshit idea. That doesn't make it criminal.

So, are you part of the problem or part of the solution?

The problem. But so are you.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Well when I see CNN correct on an issue, I'll be shocked. Look these guys tried to get the contractors on laying off on Jan2, and they are giving notice on Nov 2, so it has to be political. Ooops, the LAW requires them to give 60 days notice and they were STUNNED to learn this. And guess what 60 days notice is? yep Nov 2. I love it.

Both sides are playing politics with the issue, but who prompted this confrontation? That's right. Issa.

The person who signed off on letting guns walk and getting a border agent killed is who is responsible for this confrontation.

How is it that every fucking person on this forum who defends this administration walks right on by the fact that crimes have been committed and it points to our government, specifically, the justice department?

Why isn't any of you fucks outraged that innocent Mexican citizens and a border agent is dead because of someone in this issue?

Only one side is playing politics, and it isn't' Issa.

Fucking ignoramus.

You are using the deaths of Terry and the innocent Mexicans as a means of advancing your agenda. What crime are you talking about?

 

[ConservaDerrps]

Darrell Issa voted for this program on June 10, 2008!

HR 6028 - Assistance for Mexico and Central America for Anti-Drug Programs (Merida Program) - Key Vote - Project Vote Smart




ETA, for clarity: the reason that page mentions Issa is because it is a direct link from Issa's voting record. If I had used another Congresscritter's 'yes' vote record, it would have included their name.

I've posted that link a few times here today today. So far none on the Right have thought anything of it though...weird, huh?

 

[Wiseacre]

With all due respect:

People are claiming that F&F is directly responsible for Terry's death. So it's not a secondary issue. To hear some posters say on here, Obama took the gun, personally put it in the hand of a mexican hitman, and pointed at Terry.

There is so much useless hyperbole about this issue that I don't think either side really gets it. They think they do, but they don't. That is why the CNN article was so good.

I agree it was a dumbshit idea. That doesn't make it criminal.

So, are you part of the problem or part of the solution?

The problem. But so are you.

How so?

 

[geauxtohell]

So, are you part of the problem or part of the solution?

The problem. But so are you.

How so?

By the very nature of this conversation, we are just muddying the issues. I mean, of course we are going to talk, but I am not at all deluded into thinking that any sort of resolution to this will come about on usmessageboard.

 

[geauxtohell]

Both sides are playing politics with the issue, but who prompted this confrontation? That's right. Issa.

The person who signed off on letting guns walk and getting a border agent killed is who is responsible for this confrontation.

How is it that every fucking person on this forum who defends this administration walks right on by the fact that crimes have been committed and it points to our government, specifically, the justice department?

Why isn't any of you fucks outraged that innocent Mexican citizens and a border agent is dead because of someone in this issue?

Only one side is playing politics, and it isn't' Issa.

Fucking ignoramus.

You are using the deths of Terry and the innocent Mexicans as a men's of advancing your agenda. What crime are you talking about?

Can anyone actually, with a reasonable degree of confidence, link a weapon from F&F to Terry's death?

Or are we just making assumptions?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

So has the gun that killed Terry actually been linked to F&F? Why is there even debate about this?

Why? Because thousands of weapons were allowed, even encouraged by the US Gov't, to be sold to known Mexican criminals and as a result a lot of people were killed. Whether these particular weapons were involved is really a secondary issue, what the hell were we doing contributing to the problem. And even worse, the DOJ did not provide all pertinent information and documents to indicate what the whole truth was. It was a dumbshit idea, I don't care what it's origin was, the current DOJ should've scotched it. And when it blew up they should've released everything they had on it. The fact that they didn't looks suspicious, and at the very least appears to be political brinksmanship.

With all due respect:

People are claiming that F&F is directly responsible for Terry's death. So it's not a secondary issue. To hear some posters say on here, Obama took the gun, personally put it in the hand of a mexican hitman, and pointed at Terry.

There is so much useless hyperbole about this issue that I don't think either side really gets it. They think they do, but they don't. That is why the CNN article was so good.

I agree it was a dumbshit idea. That doesn't make it criminal.

The FBI said so. The ATF disagreed, but the ATF was also the ones that started fast and the furious.


Now
1. border agent dead
2. border agent killed by a AK47
3. Two weapons found at the shooting were two weapons traced back to the program fast and the furious.
ALL of this is moot since obama used executive privilege what is he hiding.

 

[salem.hills]

Well when I see CNN correct on an issue, I'll be shocked. Look these guys tried to get the contractors on laying off on Jan2, and they are giving notice on Nov 2, so it has to be political. Ooops, the LAW requires them to give 60 days notice and they were STUNNED to learn this. And guess what 60 days notice is? yep Nov 2. I love it.

Both sides are playing politics with the issue, but who prompted this confrontation? That's right. Issa.

Its not an issue -its criminal, contributing to murder at the least and at the worst its high treason ideology (gun law) change through crime. That's why its high treason mmmmk?

 

[ConservaDerrps]

Well when I see CNN correct on an issue, I'll be shocked. Look these guys tried to get the contractors on laying off on Jan2, and they are giving notice on Nov 2, so it has to be political. Ooops, the LAW requires them to give 60 days notice and they were STUNNED to learn this. And guess what 60 days notice is? yep Nov 2. I love it.

Both sides are playing politics with the issue, but who prompted this confrontation? That's right. Issa.

Its not an issue its criminal murder etc at the least and high treason ideology (gun law) change through crime. That's why its high treason mmmmk?

 

[geauxtohell]

Why? Because thousands of weapons were allowed, even encouraged by the US Gov't, to be sold to known Mexican criminals and as a result a lot of people were killed. Whether these particular weapons were involved is really a secondary issue, what the hell were we doing contributing to the problem. And even worse, the DOJ did not provide all pertinent information and documents to indicate what the whole truth was. It was a dumbshit idea, I don't care what it's origin was, the current DOJ should've scotched it. And when it blew up they should've released everything they had on it. The fact that they didn't looks suspicious, and at the very least appears to be political brinksmanship.

With all due respect:

People are claiming that F&F is directly responsible for Terry's death. So it's not a secondary issue. To hear some posters say on here, Obama took the gun, personally put it in the hand of a mexican hitman, and pointed at Terry.

There is so much useless hyperbole about this issue that I don't think either side really gets it. They think they do, but they don't. That is why the CNN article was so good.

I agree it was a dumbshit idea. That doesn't make it criminal.

The FBI said so. The ATF disagreed, but the ATF was also the ones that started fast and the furious.


Now
1. border agent dead
2. border agent killed by a AK47
3. Two weapons found at the shooting were two weapons traced back to the program fast and the furious.
ALL of this is moot since obama used executive privilege what is he hiding.

Is there anything more definitive than this?

Fast and Furious: FBI report at odds with ATF claim on weapons - latimes.com

It sounds like, ballastically the FBI couldn't rule the weapon in or out.

 

[Flopper]

This investigation has been ongoing for what, a year and a half? The Obama WH and the DOJ could've turned over everything they had at that point and this would all be over.

I seriously doubt that. This is the time Republicans need to stage this, 4 months before the election and before the convention. In every presidential reelection campaign, the opposition must have its witch hunts, scandals, and all manner of presidential misdeeds. Then after the election, it all goes away and starts buiding toward a great cresendo in 4 years, an endless pattern.