The F&F Tealeaves......

[The Infidel]

Well when I see CNN correct on an issue, I'll be shocked. Look these guys tried to get the contractors on laying off on Jan2, and they are giving notice on Nov 2, so it has to be political. Ooops, the LAW requires them to give 60 days notice and they were STUNNED to learn this. And guess what 60 days notice is? yep Nov 2. I love it.

Both sides are playing politics with the issue, but who prompted this confrontation? That's right. Issa.

The person who signed off on letting guns walk and getting a border agent killed is who is responsible for this confrontation.

How is it that every fucking person on this forum who defends this administration walks right on by the fact that crimes have been committed and it points to our government, specifically, the justice department?

Why isn't any of you fucks outraged that innocent Mexican citizens and a border agent is dead because of someone in this issue?

Only one side is playing politics, and it isn't' Issa.

Astounding isn't it?

I have lost alot respect for a few members here over this issue. I was sure a few of our left leaning friends had some semblance of honesty in their politics, but I was wrong.

 

[geauxtohell]

Well when I see CNN correct on an issue, I'll be shocked. Look these guys tried to get the contractors on laying off on Jan2, and they are giving notice on Nov 2, so it has to be political. Ooops, the LAW requires them to give 60 days notice and they were STUNNED to learn this. And guess what 60 days notice is? yep Nov 2. I love it.

Both sides are playing politics with the issue, but who prompted this confrontation? That's right. Issa.

The person who signed off on letting guns walk and getting a border agent killed is who is responsible for this confrontation.

How is it that every fucking person on this forum who defends this administration walks right on by the fact that crimes have been committed and it points to our government, specifically, the justice department?

Why isn't any of you fucks outraged that innocent Mexican citizens and a border agent is dead because of someone in this issue?

Only one side is playing politics, and it isn't' Issa.

I thought "guns don't kill people"?

Are you really so daft as to think that, but for fast and furious, the Drug Cartels wouldn't have guns and wouldn't be killing innocent (and not so innocent) Mexicans and law enforcement officials?

No one has ever denied that the DOJ botched this. That doesn't equate to criminality.

 

[Synthaholic]

Both sides are playing politics with the issue, but who prompted this confrontation? That's right. Issa.

The person who signed off on letting guns walk and getting a border agent killed is who is responsible for this confrontation.

How is it that every fucking person on this forum who defends this administration walks right on by the fact that crimes have been committed and it points to our government, specifically, the justice department?

Why isn't any of you fucks outraged that innocent Mexican citizens and a border agent is dead because of someone in this issue?

Only one side is playing politics, and it isn't' Issa.

Astounding isn't it?

I have lost alot respect for a few members here over this issue. I was sure a few of our left leaning friends had some semblance of honesty in their politics, but I was wrong.

Where is the honesty in blaming Holder for a policy started under Mukasey?

 

[geauxtohell]

I guess if you shop around you can find a quote you like from the fawning drooling liberal media but you can't alter the facts. The attorney general might be the highest law enforcement officer in the Country but he is not above the law. Congress issued subpoenas for documents and Holder thumbed his nose. The A.G. cannot ignore a congressional subpoena and Barry Hussein may have implicated himself when he cited executive privilege over a relatively benign subpoena.

This isn't from the "fawning drooling liberal media". It's from the Dean of the Ohio State University School of Law.

Nice try though.

You didn't even bother to read what he wrote, did you?

 

[geauxtohell]

Well when I see CNN correct on an issue, I'll be shocked. Look these guys tried to get the contractors on laying off on Jan2, and they are giving notice on Nov 2, so it has to be political. Ooops, the LAW requires them to give 60 days notice and they were STUNNED to learn this. And guess what 60 days notice is? yep Nov 2. I love it.

Both sides are playing politics with the issue, but who prompted this confrontation? That's right. Issa.

Wrong, they have already caught several memebers of the Justice department lying or "forgetting" about this or that.

And here from the horses mouth. He knew he had nothing and made shit up.
Holder retracts claim Bush team knew about Fast and Furious | WashingtonExaminer.com

Justice said that Holder "inadvertently" made the charge against Mukasey in a hearing.
I love it, oops!

How do you get caught "forgetting" something?

 

[Katzndogz]

obama IS the most corrupt president we ever had. Issa was only stating the obvious.

The F&F disaster is only one part of what's coming out of the white house. It is part of the total picture of treason, corruption and criminal conduct. In November voters will be voting on whether they like that picture or not.

 

[Si modo]

When the deliberative documents pertaining to internal deliberations on "how to deal with another branch and/or government agency" include internal deliberations to break law, then they forfeit the privilege of those internal deliberations.

The op-ed sorta left that not-so-minor detail out.

 

[The Infidel]

Both sides are playing politics with the issue, but who prompted this confrontation? That's right. Issa.

The person who signed off on letting guns walk and getting a border agent killed is who is responsible for this confrontation.

How is it that every fucking person on this forum who defends this administration walks right on by the fact that crimes have been committed and it points to our government, specifically, the justice department?

Why isn't any of you fucks outraged that innocent Mexican citizens and a border agent is dead because of someone in this issue?

Only one side is playing politics, and it isn't' Issa.

I thought "guns don't kill people"?

Are you really so daft as to think that, but for fast and furious, the Drug Cartels wouldn't have guns and wouldn't be killing innocent (and not so innocent) Mexicans and law enforcement officials?

No one has ever denied that the DOJ botched this. That doesn't equate to criminality.

GUN DO NOT KILL PEOPLE you jackass.... stop changing the issue!

Someone is lying and that IS criminality.

 

[geauxtohell]

This article:
Why contempt case against Holder may be doomed - CNN.com

Does a good job of laying out the situation and what most is most likely to happen. I am sure this will devolve into a food fight, but it's hard to argue with the facts laid out in the above opinion piece:

Unfortunately for the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, its legal position is uncertain at best, and almost all political considerations would seem to favor the White House.

It also must be said that Issa's past attacks on the administration amply feed a narrative that his subpoena is about politics, not principle.

Having months ago called Obama "one of the most corrupt presidents in modern times" -- in the face of such modern historical escapades as Watergate, Iran-Contra or the Terrorist Surveillance Program -- the chairman is not well-situated to play a Sam Ervin-like role, policing the presidency more in sadness than in angry partisanship.

Interesting that these points are pretty much the same as Libs here have been saying and that rw's have not been able to prove wrong.

But, the real problem is that Rs are very good at lying. They will yammer about this, as though they are right, and the unthinking rw's who want so badly to hate Obama, will blindly accept all of that garbage as fact.

IOW, even though the R is lying, the damage is done and rw's will add even more lies to it.

And we all pay the price.

I am not concerned about the RW, they aren't interested in the truth (to include Issa).

I am concerned about average Americans. I think the Administration can use this to illustrate how the Congress is completely (actually beyond completely) obstructionist in light of the things Issa has said.

The GOP sure picked a hothead to spear this fight.

 

[geauxtohell]

obama IS the most corrupt president we ever had. Issa was only stating the obvious.

Really? Then why did he retreat from his own comments?

Darrell Issa walks back ?corrupt? line about President Obama - Andy Barr - POLITICO.com

And why did he make those statements far before he ever started investigating this?

 

[Katzndogz]

Both sides are playing politics with the issue, but who prompted this confrontation? That's right. Issa.

The person who signed off on letting guns walk and getting a border agent killed is who is responsible for this confrontation.

How is it that every fucking person on this forum who defends this administration walks right on by the fact that crimes have been committed and it points to our government, specifically, the justice department?

Why isn't any of you fucks outraged that innocent Mexican citizens and a border agent is dead because of someone in this issue?

Only one side is playing politics, and it isn't' Issa.

I thought "guns don't kill people"?

Are you really so daft as to think that, but for fast and furious, the Drug Cartels wouldn't have guns and wouldn't be killing innocent (and not so innocent) Mexicans and law enforcement officials?

No one has ever denied that the DOJ botched this. That doesn't equate to criminality.

If you gave your gun to someone you know was a criminal gang banger and that gun was used to kill someone, do you really think you would not be prosecuted? Could you possibly imagine that you could say guns don't kill people, so the gun I gave to the gang banger KNOWING his was a gang banger and a killer, had nothing to do with his killing someone. If I hadn't given him that gun, he would have gotten some other gun.

That would not work in any court in the country.

 

[The Infidel]

Both sides are playing politics with the issue, but who prompted this confrontation? That's right. Issa.

Wrong, they have already caught several memebers of the Justice department lying or "forgetting" about this or that.

And here from the horses mouth. He knew he had nothing and made shit up.
Holder retracts claim Bush team knew about Fast and Furious | WashingtonExaminer.com

Justice said that Holder "inadvertently" made the charge against Mukasey in a hearing.
I love it, oops!

How do you get caught "forgetting" something?

By lying about it and getting caught doing it.

 

[geauxtohell]

When the deliberative documents pertaining to internal deliberations on "how to deal with another branch and/or government agency" include internal deliberations to break law, then they forfeit the privilege of those internal deliberations.

The op-ed sorta left that not-so-minor detail out.

Except it did.

How co-equal branches deal with each other and the relative power they have over the other is fundamental to our constitution and discussions about that by lawyers are bread and butter constitutional law.

BTW, there are internal deliberations to break the law? Link?

 

[The Infidel]

The person who signed off on letting guns walk and getting a border agent killed is who is responsible for this confrontation.

How is it that every fucking person on this forum who defends this administration walks right on by the fact that crimes have been committed and it points to our government, specifically, the justice department?

Why isn't any of you fucks outraged that innocent Mexican citizens and a border agent is dead because of someone in this issue?

Only one side is playing politics, and it isn't' Issa.

I thought "guns don't kill people"?

Are you really so daft as to think that, but for fast and furious, the Drug Cartels wouldn't have guns and wouldn't be killing innocent (and not so innocent) Mexicans and law enforcement officials?

No one has ever denied that the DOJ botched this. That doesn't equate to criminality.

If you gave your gun to someone you know was a criminal gang banger and that gun was used to kill someone, do you really think you would not be prosecuted? Could you possibly imagine that you could say guns don't kill people, so the gun I gave to the gang banger KNOWING his was a gang banger and a killer, had nothing to do with his killing someone. If I hadn't given him that gun, he would have gotten some other gun.

That would not work in any court in the country.

Oh stop it...!

Stop being logical... they cant handle it.

 

[geauxtohell]

The person who signed off on letting guns walk and getting a border agent killed is who is responsible for this confrontation.

How is it that every fucking person on this forum who defends this administration walks right on by the fact that crimes have been committed and it points to our government, specifically, the justice department?

Why isn't any of you fucks outraged that innocent Mexican citizens and a border agent is dead because of someone in this issue?

Only one side is playing politics, and it isn't' Issa.

I thought "guns don't kill people"?

Are you really so daft as to think that, but for fast and furious, the Drug Cartels wouldn't have guns and wouldn't be killing innocent (and not so innocent) Mexicans and law enforcement officials?

No one has ever denied that the DOJ botched this. That doesn't equate to criminality.

GUN DO NOT KILL PEOPLE you jackass.... stop changing the issue!

Someone is lying and that IS criminality.

So if "guns do not kill people", why are you blaming the DOJ for putting a gun in the hand of someone that killed a border agent?

Why aren't you blaming the actual trigger puller?

 

[geauxtohell]

The person who signed off on letting guns walk and getting a border agent killed is who is responsible for this confrontation.

How is it that every fucking person on this forum who defends this administration walks right on by the fact that crimes have been committed and it points to our government, specifically, the justice department?

Why isn't any of you fucks outraged that innocent Mexican citizens and a border agent is dead because of someone in this issue?

Only one side is playing politics, and it isn't' Issa.

I thought "guns don't kill people"?

Are you really so daft as to think that, but for fast and furious, the Drug Cartels wouldn't have guns and wouldn't be killing innocent (and not so innocent) Mexicans and law enforcement officials?

No one has ever denied that the DOJ botched this. That doesn't equate to criminality.

If you gave your gun to someone you know was a criminal gang banger and that gun was used to kill someone, do you really think you would not be prosecuted?

What would I be prosecuted for? Is it illegal to lend my gun to someone? There might be a nice tort case, but a criminal one?

Could you possibly imagine that you could say guns don't kill people, so the gun I gave to the gang banger KNOWING his was a gang banger and a killer, had nothing to do with his killing someone. If I hadn't given him that gun, he would have gotten some other gun.

That would not work in any court in the country.

Really? This is probably where you should cite a court case or something to back up your statement.

 

[The Infidel]

I thought "guns don't kill people"?

Are you really so daft as to think that, but for fast and furious, the Drug Cartels wouldn't have guns and wouldn't be killing innocent (and not so innocent) Mexicans and law enforcement officials?

No one has ever denied that the DOJ botched this. That doesn't equate to criminality.

GUN DO NOT KILL PEOPLE you jackass.... stop changing the issue!

Someone is lying and that IS criminality.

So if "guns do not kill people", why are you blaming the DOJ for putting a gun in the hand of someone that killed a border agent?

Why aren't you blaming the actual trigger puller?

For the same reason I cant supply a gun to a convicted felon... I can get in BIG trouble for such an act, and so would you. Especially if it were used in the commision of a crime.

Stop being an ass about it.

You know what we are saying.

 

[geauxtohell]

Wrong, they have already caught several memebers of the Justice department lying or "forgetting" about this or that.

And here from the horses mouth. He knew he had nothing and made shit up.
Holder retracts claim Bush team knew about Fast and Furious | WashingtonExaminer.com

Justice said that Holder "inadvertently" made the charge against Mukasey in a hearing.
I love it, oops!

How do you get caught "forgetting" something?

By lying about it and getting caught doing it.

Someone was caught lying? That sounds serious! Link?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

The person who signed off on letting guns walk and getting a border agent killed is who is responsible for this confrontation.

How is it that every fucking person on this forum who defends this administration walks right on by the fact that crimes have been committed and it points to our government, specifically, the justice department?

Why isn't any of you fucks outraged that innocent Mexican citizens and a border agent is dead because of someone in this issue?

Only one side is playing politics, and it isn't' Issa.

I thought "guns don't kill people"?

Are you really so daft as to think that, but for fast and furious, the Drug Cartels wouldn't have guns and wouldn't be killing innocent (and not so innocent) Mexicans and law enforcement officials?

No one has ever denied that the DOJ botched this. That doesn't equate to criminality.

GUN DO NOT KILL PEOPLE you jackass.... stop changing the issue!

Someone is lying and that IS criminality.

Since they have not been able to prove that an FF gun killed Terry, in this case, that tired nut may actually be true.

 

[geauxtohell]

For the same reason I cant supply a gun to a convicted felon...

You could if you were a law enforcement entity and you were doing so to make a persecution against said convicted felon.

In the same vein, I can't supply illegal drugs to anybody as a private citizen. However, legally, if I am a law enforcement agent, I can actually participate in illegal activities to facilitate the arrest and prosecution of other criminals. This is commonly known as a sting.

If I, as a law enforcement agent, supply high grade heroin to dealers in a sting and a bunch of high school kids in the community OD and die from it, am I guilty of their murders? No.

I can get in BIG trouble for such an act, and so would you. Especially if it were used in the commision of a crime.

Of course we would. We are private citizens. We would be the exact type of people that F&F was trying to catch.

Now you are getting it!

Stop being an ass about it.

You know what we are saying.

Stop being logically inconsistent.