The Exposed Truth of Jean Chrétien

[Bry]

Originally posted by jimnyc
Am I supposed to care that you think my responses are inappropriate? You and your opinions can suck my ass.

You come here solely to start trouble and illicit responses, and by golly you'll get them!

Now, get lost, before I slap you on the back of your head and knock your dick-shaped Popsicle out.

Actually, super-dad, I came here to read intelligent, measured, thoughtful posts and partake in the debate if I had something to contribute. I actually enjoyed some of what you said in the first post; well, at least it was well written. Then, the RIDICULOUS response to the Bushisms, as if Bush is above critique! If your idea of a rebuttal is calling someone you've never seen fat and ugly, or threatening to slap someone in the head over an internet connection, you're obviously not the most even-keeled of souls.

But hey, you'll get your wish. I certainly have no intention of sticking around here.

 

[jimnyc]

Bye! I'll be sad to see you go!

 

[Isaac Brock]

Originally posted by jimnyc


Well, no matter, an opinion from a canadian is like an opinion from a rock. [/B]

Careful, branding an entire people with one brush is a good way to make enemies fairly quickly and look fairly silly yourself, no matter how misguided you may think the one individual is. I believe it was one of your great presidents, Abe, who said "'Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."

 

[Isaac Brock]

Hi NT,
An excellent and well argued post. I will not post again until a bit later due to the fact that I am racing in a regatta in your fair country.

Originally posted by NightTrain


Where are they [WMD] now? I don't know. You can bet that Israel is actively trying to find that out - they want to know where they went probably more than we do.

I don't think anyone in their right mind would argue that Saddam didn't have his WMD playtoys - otherwise, why would he play the games he played? It wasn't just the USA that said he had them - every nation involved in the UNSC knew they had them, and demanded that he comply with resolutions for inspections. The whole world watched that cat-and-mouse game.

Besides, another fact that seems to get overlooked is that he had them and used them in the past. Documented fact. No country that I'm aware of has ever acquired WMDs and later washed its hands of them.

I agree with most of what you are saying. I have no doubt that Iraq once had WMD. His chemical program was well known prior to the gulf war and I know he used them on the Kurdish population to the North as well as, if memory serves, Iran during the Iran and Iraq war. Use of WMD is abhorrent in my mind as well as I would imagine the vast majority of Canadians in any circumstance. However, the US did invade Iraq once in what i would say was a completely just war and the US did dismantle much of that program. It is truly a shame that your country did not remove Saddam and that Ba'athists at that moment, but that is a completely seperate and unrelated matter to discuss.

Does the fact that he did have them logically insist that he has them now? Well the only answer can be no, since althought the past is an excellent indicator of the future, it is not magical orb that can see into it. In a lot of ways, the whole question and debate will be stalemated for at least the foreseable future. I don't think at this moment you can truly say without a doubt that yes, Saddam had WMD at the time of the invastion, but nor can I say that he did not. History will undoubtably prove one of us right someday and then we will indeed see if the pretext was warrented.

So I guess the next question I will ask to you is whether the Iraq war will make the US any more secure or the lives of Iraqis any better. Perhaps, it is too soon to lay judgement or even speculate for that matter, but as a pure gut feeling with perhaps some context in history I would say that the US certainly fanned the flames of anti-americanism not only in the middle-east or with muslims, but also will fellow allies. Regardless of right or wrong, the US's decision to go at it without international cooperation from the majority of its main allies, leaves its in an akward strategic situation.

In a lot of sense it has polarized the western world. On one hand you have France, Germany and Russia who seemed to have formed a bond around opposing the US action, then there's Britain, who's people are, as i understand, mostly against the invasion, althought their government-elect is not. Then there are countries like Canada who admittedly are sitting on the fence. On the ideological side, we are much like the Europeans, opposed to the war based on principle (which I can go into if you do not understand), but then again our bond with America is longlasting and all encompasing. Essentially the Iraq war took all what was stable in the world, tossed in up, and created a new world dynamic.

I won't even go into the revenge attacks by extremists that will no doubtably increase. So i guess in a nutshell, i think war will make things worse for america in the long run, but i am looking forward to what you think. And yes, i have forgotten to mention the Iraqi people, but time is running short.

Was Iraq a greater threat than Iran? Yep. But, they're still dirty, and everyone knows it. With any luck, the democracy next door will take care of the Iran problem from within.

North Korea? I don't know. There wasn't evidence that I'm aware of with NK conspiring with known terrorists - let alone one that ended up flying an airliner into the WTC. However, NK is going to require a little bit different of an approach, for obvious reasons. It's a more dangerous animal, to be sure, and they haven't been forgotten. They're under a microscope, and have been ever since they admitted they'd been lying about their nuclear program.

Why not the other 'evil' countries? One at a time

Well, I simply disagree what you think your greatest threat is, but then again, I am not american. This is especially due to the fact that i truly don't believe Iraq had a "significant" terrorist link. If you guys are truly worried about terrorism, go after the anti-american Theocracies such as Iran. That's not to mention the radical anti-americanism that is taught to many lower-class Saudi Arabians is government funded (though not always controlled) schools.

As far as your EPA argument goes.. I've always been of the opinon that things are always more fair all the way around when dealt with on a local level. If there's an industry that's being irresponsible, then there is room for improvement in State laws - which are almost always implemented faster than the Federal beauracracy can manage.

A differing opinion than mine, but i see where you're coming from and i agree in many situations (ie watershed issues, forestation), but in my opinion some controls, especially environmental regulations with area/region effects should be controlled federally.

Amen.

But I don't see any other course of action that's feasible other than the course we're on right now. We didn't ask for the mission to eradicate militant muslims, it landed in our lap. Literally. There's only one language those animals understand, and that's brute force.

Eight years of a weak President led up to this, and now we're paying for his weakness in spades. [/B]

Just remember, every cause has an effect and though i find militant muslim terrorists (or christian, jewish, hindu and sikh) abhorrent, though sometime force is required, the US must find away to not only treat the symptoms of terrorisms, but the US and the world in general for that matter, must find away to root out the cause of terrorism.

And once again... forgive my spelling and grammar... i simply must sleep. Cheers

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Isaac Brock
Careful, branding an entire people with one brush is a good way to make enemies fairly quickly and look fairly silly yourself, no matter how misguided you may think the one individual is. I believe it was one of your great presidents, Abe, who said "'Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."

Fair enough, Isaac. My apologies.

You came onto the board and have made your debates with class. You are apparently an exception to the *rule*. I try to treat people here the way they treat others. If someone comes here simply to bash, they will get it 10 fold in return. While others may read my comments and get agitated, they are there simply to piss off the person I am replying to.

By the way, Welcome aboard

 

[Man of 1951]

Originally posted by jimnyc
Well, no matter, an opinion from a canadian is like an opinion from a rock.

whether your 'intent' was to offend one person on the forum, you are involving an entire people along with that one person. So if you plan on offending one person, trying doing just that.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Man of 1951
whether your 'intent' was to offend one person on the forum, you are involving an entire people along with that one person. So if you plan on offending one person, trying doing just that.

When I want your advice, I'll ask for it. Until then I'll feel free to speak however I please.

Thank You

 

[Man of 1951]

....just as i am free to advice however i choose.


Thanks anyway

 

[Man of 1951]

before you accuse me of being illiterate, and extropolate that to include all canadians....i meant advise not advice

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Man of 1951
before you accuse me of being illiterate, and extropolate that to include all canadians....i meant advise not advice

Did you mean "extrapolate"?

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Man of 1951
....just as i am free to advice however i choose.


Thanks anyway

Ummmm.... Not entirely. Your free to advise however the hell you want on this board, but you won't be advising me on how I should post.

 

[Man of 1951]

Actually i am free advise however the hell i want to, and i can advise you as i please....but you are also free to accept or reject my advice. And my advise was simply for you to not contradict yourself by saying you make fun of an entire ppl with the intent of offending a single person....whether its your intent or not, you are also offending an entire ppl. So please stop with the racist comments you make about entire ppl, and with all the generalization you make, even if you are trying to offend a single person. Call them a shame of whatever their nationality is, but don't generalize about all who share that nationality because for one, it'll discredit you as a reasonable person, and two it just creates more anger, and thus more comments that'll make this board more like a median to express irrational comments than a median to transfer different perspectives and information.

Thanks for the spell check

 

[janeeng]

Shut up dipshit!!!! I think the point was taken already and don't need your 2 cents!

 

[Man of 1951]

....right......too bad i no longer really care what you think

 

[janeeng]

DITTO!

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Man of 1951
Actually i am free advise however the hell i want to, and i can advise you as i please....but you are also free to accept or reject my advice.

Actually, no, you won't advise me on my posting "as you please". This will be the last post on the subject. Debate me all you like about my opinions, but don't tell me how I should post on the board I own.

 

[NightTrain]

Issac :

So I guess the next question I will ask to you is whether the Iraq war will make the US any more secure or the lives of Iraqis any better. Perhaps, it is too soon to lay judgement or even speculate for that matter, but as a pure gut feeling with perhaps some context in history I would say that the US certainly fanned the flames of anti-americanism not only in the middle-east or with muslims, but also will fellow allies. Regardless of right or wrong, the US's decision to go at it without international cooperation from the majority of its main allies, leaves its in an akward strategic situation.

Believe it or not, I really do think the Iraq war will benefit the USA and the world.

I think everyone can agree that the middle east has a very real and complex problem with extremism. I don't think it's due entirely to the financial situation of John Q. Public there, but I do think it's a part of it.

What's in common with all of the countries that have terrorists springing up? Fundamentalist Islamic governments. You've got a very small number of people controlling 99% of that country's wealth and resources. In order to maintain their cush positions, they have to divert attention away from the government (who is really responsible for the peasants' plight) to another scapegoat. These days, that would be America. Israel, it goes without saying, is always there to take the heat.

Religion should be separate from government to prevent religious leaders of a certain faith from oppressing & murdering people of differing faiths. It can do great good, but also great evil.

With a democracy established in Iraq (and I really don't know how we're going to introduce the concept of separation of Church and State and that's going to be crucial), the people of Iraq will begin to enjoy the freedoms and liberty that all of us in North America and Europe take for granted. Then a person can go as far as his/her ambitions take them based on that person's abilities, rather than who they're related to or what faith they are.

When that happens, all of the neighboring countries are going to sit up and take notice - and wonder why they can't have what the Iraqis have.

It's the Domino theory, and I sure as hell hope it works - if there is a successful Democracy established in Iraq, I don't see how it can fail. It's been done in the past, and I'm optimistic about this attempt.

Iran, Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and the others are all watching very closely this attempt of ours to give the Iraqis a modern government, and they know what's at stake - their positions and very possibly their lives. The last thing they want is a flourishing democracy next door - that's why there are so many foriegn fighters showing up and fighting our troops, and assassinating any new Iraqi official trying to move forward with reconstruction.

I won't even go into the revenge attacks by extremists that will no doubtably increase. So i guess in a nutshell, i think war will make things worse for america in the long run, but i am looking forward to what you think. And yes, i have forgotten to mention the Iraqi people, but time is running short.

I disagree. We haven't had any more attacks on American soil since the gloves came off. The terrorists wanted a fight, and we're giving it to them in spades.

With the Domino Theory, I think we're on the road to a much more peaceful world.

Well, I simply disagree what you think your greatest threat is, but then again, I am not american. This is especially due to the fact that i truly don't believe Iraq had a "significant" terrorist link. If you guys are truly worried about terrorism, go after the anti-american Theocracies such as Iran. That's not to mention the radical anti-americanism that is taught to many lower-class Saudi Arabians is government funded (though not always controlled) schools.

I think if we had to pick just one country that was the biggest threat, in 2002, Iraq would be number one. Closely followed by a host of other countries. It's more of a regional threat rather than just one country.

The whole region needs changing, so that clerics that preach their hate-filled messages to the masses no longer have a leg to stand on. If you're content, comfortable, free, gainfully employed & have a future to look forward to, would you listen to an idiot screeching about blowing yourself up to kill the infidels? Sure, there'll always be a few lunatics around, but the majority won't have any reason to follow.

How did your regatta racing turn out? Did you take the Gold?

 

[Man of 1951]

Originally posted by jimnyc
Actually, no, you won't advise me on my posting "as you please". This will be the last post on the subject. Debate me all you like about my opinions, but don't tell me how I should post on the board I own.

Then tell me, are you a supporter of free speech?

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Man of 1951
Then tell me, are you a supporter of free speech?

You're barking up the wrong tree there!

I've given everyone here an arena where you can discuss volatile subjects and have your opinion heard. Many posts have been *out of line* - yet have never been deleted and 0 posters have been banned.

Yes, I believe in free speech. Do you understand the concept?

Let's suppose you are enrolled in a major college university and are majoring in history. You have differing opinions than the professor, so you decide to get up in front of the class daily and yell "F*^& Y%$, professor"! Does freedom of speech give you that right, or will you likely be expelled from school within an hour? You DO have the right to picket outside school property, but freedom of speech is not absolute.

I defy you to find another board that allows it's users to speak their opinions so freely. The closest you will find is Yahoo, which has about 15,000 messages per subject while about 14,000 of them are a waste to read.

Condemn Iraq or the USA, praise terrorism, or even throw jabs at someone else if thats what floats your boat. Everyone that comes here has that same right, but no one is going to tell them how they have to write it.

 

[janeeng]

quit the bitching! be glad there's a shit room like this that you can say what ever the hell comes to your fuc*ing mind. Bitch bitch bitch man 1951, just end the crap on freedom of speech already!!!