The definitive guide to the 2nd Amendment

[2aguy]

CDC Study: Use of Firearms for Self-Defense is ‘Important Crime Deterrent’
Defensive Gun Use

No matter how you slice it defensive gun use saves lives.

Great study. It shows that most gun related incidents don't result in death. However, you must realize that most meth users don't die immediately either. So Meth use and gun use must be equally safe------right?

That study also says defensive dun use is an important crime deterrent.
The second link estimates over 70000 DGU annually.

IMO it's most likely more but not quite the 1.5 million that oft quoted study says

Even if you take the low ball estimate guns are used in defense far more often than they are for murder

Defensive gun use is nonaddictive so your meth analogy is poor at best

Then why has violent crime increased every year since WI got concealed carry?

Violent crime is at a 30 year low.

5 facts about crime in the U.S.

Look at WI.

We have more concealed carry than ever, and violent crime increased.
FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

And here you lie....you mention Wisconsin then bait and switch numbers for 2016.........here is the truth...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.




Hard Data, Hollow Protests

The reason for the current increase is what I have called the Ferguson Effect.

Cops are backing off of proactive policing in high-crime minority neighborhoods, and criminals are becoming emboldened.

Having been told incessantly by politicians, the media, and Black Lives Matter activists that they are bigoted for getting out of their cars and questioning someone loitering on a known drug corner at 2 AM, many officers are instead just driving by. Such stops are discretionary; cops don’t have to make them. And when political elites demonize the police for just such proactive policing, we shouldn’t be surprised when cops get the message and do less of it.

Seventy-two percent of the nation’s officers say that they and their colleagues are now less willing to stop and question suspicious persons, according to a Pew Research poll released in January. The reason is the persistent anti-cop climate.

Four studies came out in 2016 alone rebutting the charge that police shootings are racially biased. If there is a bias in police shootings, it works in favor of blacks and against whites. That truth has not stopped the ongoing demonization of the police—including, now, by many of the country’s ignorant professional athletes. The toll will be felt, as always, in the inner city, by the thousands of law-abiding people there who desperately want more police protection.

 

[2aguy]

The "gun show loophole" is an imprecise term, I'll give you that.

But the FACT that people can purchase a gun through various "legal" means without a background is undeniable.

By legal, I just mean that the seller is criminally liable no matter what the buyer does with the gun. Obviously, a felon purchasing a gun is committing a crime… but the seller is not .

What about bad apple gun dealers -- stores that are know to regularly sell guns out the back door to straw purchasers. Tiahrt Amendments limit ATF and state police ability to investigate and monitor this practice. (among others)

Facts to backup my statements -

PolitiFact Sheet: 3 things to know about the 'gun show loophole'

Politifact.....wow....that is a stupid source...

 

[2aguy]

I would much rather take my chances with the “good guys” than the “bad” guys… every time.
Because the bad guys are criminals and they cannot be rehabilitated or trusted

Why do I own a Gun? Not the fear of bad guys. I can spot a loose canon clean across the room that will draw and fire with no thought of the innocents in the vacinity. Every Responsible gun owner I know has gone through the concealed weapons course and keep it concealed. The Idea is for the bad guy to not know exactly who is armed or not and having the carriers qualified to wield the weapon.

Dallas Texas: from 1871 to the late 20th century, no open carry allowed. You would be arrested if you didn't turn in your weapon or at least get it out of sight.

Wicheta KS: from 1875 to even today you have to have a license to carry in public. I don't mean transporting. I mean wear it. Subject to some pretty hefty fines and jail time

Dodge City: Same as Wicheta

Tombstone, AZ: from 1877 to just recently, no open carry. The Clantons were NOT the criminals that many of you think they are. They just refused to check their sidearms and they refused to leave. They were Cowboys. This why the Earps entered into the fray with their sidearms in their pockets or belts covered with the frocks. Generally, Cowboys would comply with a little prodding. The Clanton Clan were Cowboys and not trained gunman. Otherwise, it would have been the Earps laying in the streets bleeding.

We have open carry here. Some of these Characters doing open carry actually believe that they are Gods Gift to a Gunfighter. I have a gun to protect me from these people. I don't go to the areas that probably will have the bad guys. The chances of me being shot by a bad guy is less than being struck by lightning twice. But the chance of me being accidentely shot by the so called "Good Guy" is much higher.

In your opinion, Which is not mine or anybody else’s reality

I can always tell when I hit it dead center. You resort to insults instead of countering. You lose. Get over it.

Firearm ownership is no ones business but the individuals, and is certainly none of the federal governments business.
You don’t get to represent other peoples firearm ownership, you have zero credibility on the matter.

Is it anyone esle's business that you have to be insured to drive your car? How about registration and licensing to drive same said vehicle. You MUST pay property taxes otherwise you can't own property. The list goes on and on about things that also apply. You must be licensed to be a Doctor, Real Estate Agent and more. Are you saying that this is also wrong?

Public Safety comes first.

Driving is not a Right.......you cannot charge a fee for a Right......and you can't require a test to exercise a Right....you morons did that with blacks and voting, with your poll taxes and literacy tests....and those practices were stopped...

On top of that....you have this Supreme Court decision...doofus....

Murdock v. Pennsylvania, 319 U.S. 105 (1943)



4. A State may not impose a charge for the enjoyment of a right granted by the Federal Constitution. P. 319 U. S. 113.

5. The flat license tax here involved restrains in advance the Constitutional liberties of press and religion, and inevitably tends to suppress their exercise. P. 319 U. S. 114.

6. That the ordinance is "nondiscriminatory," in that it applies also to peddlers of wares and merchandise, is immaterial. The liberties guaranteed by the First Amendment are in a preferred position. P. 319 U. S. 115.

7. Since the privilege in question is guaranteed by the Federal Constitution, and exists independently of state authority, the inquiry as to whether the State has given something for which it can ask a return is irrelevant. P. 319 U. S. 115.

8. A community may not suppress, or the State tax, the dissemination of views because they are unpopular, annoying, or distasteful. P. 319 U. S. 116.

------

Page 319 U. S. 108



The First Amendment, which the Fourteenth makes applicable to the states, declares that

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press . . ."

It could hardly be denied that a tax laid specifically on the exercise of those freedoms would be unconstitutional. Yet the license tax imposed by this ordinance is, in substance, just that.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I don't know who cares abut the pig. I guess it's mother might. I'm positive that the parents of all those students don't want a stupid teenager shooting on the school grounds without anybody knowing it was going to happen. Unexpected gunfire at a school usually ends up with the shooter being dead. The idiot was lucky.

I don’t think the pigs care one way or another, but it is not the firearms at fault it’s the person’s fault. You need to learn the difference…

Never said it was the guns fault. As always it's that idiot "good guy with a gun" that pulls the really dangerous stupid shit.

And the "Good Guy with a Gun" in America uses that Gun 1,500,000 times a year to stop really dangerous shit by the kooks and criminals people like you keep letting out of jail....

On million plus? Do you live where ISIS and the Taliban control? If you needed that weapon that many times or all of us needed those wlapons that many times for bad guys The bad guys would out number the rest of us and we would die.

I was wondering if you could inflate those numbers any more.

Not me, doofus......bill clinton's Department of Justice research into defensive gun use...just one of the studies......


The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

You are way too prepared. Tells me that there are number of analysts working behind the scenes with an agenda. You might tell you handlers that you have been bagged. You are a NRA sponsored troll.

 

[2aguy]

I don’t think the pigs care one way or another, but it is not the firearms at fault it’s the person’s fault. You need to learn the difference…

Never said it was the guns fault. As always it's that idiot "good guy with a gun" that pulls the really dangerous stupid shit.

And the "Good Guy with a Gun" in America uses that Gun 1,500,000 times a year to stop really dangerous shit by the kooks and criminals people like you keep letting out of jail....

On million plus? Do you live where ISIS and the Taliban control? If you needed that weapon that many times or all of us needed those wlapons that many times for bad guys The bad guys would out number the rest of us and we would die.

I was wondering if you could inflate those numbers any more.

Not me, doofus......bill clinton's Department of Justice research into defensive gun use...just one of the studies......


The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

You are way too prepared. Tells me that there are number of analysts working behind the scenes with an agenda. You might tell you handlers that you have been bagged. You are a NRA sponsored troll.

Please...tell us you are not a police detective.....

 

[Rustic]

I would much rather take my chances with the “good guys” than the “bad” guys… every time.
Because the bad guys are criminals and they cannot be rehabilitated or trusted

Why do I own a Gun? Not the fear of bad guys. I can spot a loose canon clean across the room that will draw and fire with no thought of the innocents in the vacinity. Every Responsible gun owner I know has gone through the concealed weapons course and keep it concealed. The Idea is for the bad guy to not know exactly who is armed or not and having the carriers qualified to wield the weapon.

Dallas Texas: from 1871 to the late 20th century, no open carry allowed. You would be arrested if you didn't turn in your weapon or at least get it out of sight.

Wicheta KS: from 1875 to even today you have to have a license to carry in public. I don't mean transporting. I mean wear it. Subject to some pretty hefty fines and jail time

Dodge City: Same as Wicheta

Tombstone, AZ: from 1877 to just recently, no open carry. The Clantons were NOT the criminals that many of you think they are. They just refused to check their sidearms and they refused to leave. They were Cowboys. This why the Earps entered into the fray with their sidearms in their pockets or belts covered with the frocks. Generally, Cowboys would comply with a little prodding. The Clanton Clan were Cowboys and not trained gunman. Otherwise, it would have been the Earps laying in the streets bleeding.

We have open carry here. Some of these Characters doing open carry actually believe that they are Gods Gift to a Gunfighter. I have a gun to protect me from these people. I don't go to the areas that probably will have the bad guys. The chances of me being shot by a bad guy is less than being struck by lightning twice. But the chance of me being accidentely shot by the so called "Good Guy" is much higher.

In your opinion, Which is not mine or anybody else’s reality

I can always tell when I hit it dead center. You resort to insults instead of countering. You lose. Get over it.

Firearm ownership is no ones business but the individuals, and is certainly none of the federal governments business.
You don’t get to represent other peoples firearm ownership, you have zero credibility on the matter.

Is it anyone esle's business that you have to be insured to drive your car? How about registration and licensing to drive same said vehicle. You MUST pay property taxes otherwise you can't own property. The list goes on and on about things that also apply. You must be licensed to be a Doctor, Real Estate Agent and more. Are you saying that this is also wrong?

Public Safety comes first.

Only a fucking dumbass thinks anything to do with vehicles is a right, Driving is a privilege not a right.
Firearm ownership is 100% personal and so fuck your piece of shit federal government...

 

[Rustic]

And the "Good Guy with a Gun" in America uses that Gun 1,500,000 times a year to stop really dangerous shit by the kooks and criminals people like you keep letting out of jail....

On million plus? Do you live where ISIS and the Taliban control? If you needed that weapon that many times or all of us needed those wlapons that many times for bad guys The bad guys would out number the rest of us and we would die.

I was wondering if you could inflate those numbers any more.

CDC Study: Use of Firearms for Self-Defense is ‘Important Crime Deterrent’
Defensive Gun Use

No matter how you slice it defensive gun use saves lives.

Great study. It shows that most gun related incidents don't result in death. However, you must realize that most meth users don't die immediately either. So Meth use and gun use must be equally safe------right?

Firearm ownership is a right, meth not so much...

That's all you got? You don't care that guns in the wrong hands are just as damaging to our country as meth.

Firearms have no control over people... and they are an right.

 

[Rustic]

Why do I own a Gun? Not the fear of bad guys. I can spot a loose canon clean across the room that will draw and fire with no thought of the innocents in the vacinity. Every Responsible gun owner I know has gone through the concealed weapons course and keep it concealed. The Idea is for the bad guy to not know exactly who is armed or not and having the carriers qualified to wield the weapon.

Dallas Texas: from 1871 to the late 20th century, no open carry allowed. You would be arrested if you didn't turn in your weapon or at least get it out of sight.

Wicheta KS: from 1875 to even today you have to have a license to carry in public. I don't mean transporting. I mean wear it. Subject to some pretty hefty fines and jail time

Dodge City: Same as Wicheta

Tombstone, AZ: from 1877 to just recently, no open carry. The Clantons were NOT the criminals that many of you think they are. They just refused to check their sidearms and they refused to leave. They were Cowboys. This why the Earps entered into the fray with their sidearms in their pockets or belts covered with the frocks. Generally, Cowboys would comply with a little prodding. The Clanton Clan were Cowboys and not trained gunman. Otherwise, it would have been the Earps laying in the streets bleeding.

We have open carry here. Some of these Characters doing open carry actually believe that they are Gods Gift to a Gunfighter. I have a gun to protect me from these people. I don't go to the areas that probably will have the bad guys. The chances of me being shot by a bad guy is less than being struck by lightning twice. But the chance of me being accidentely shot by the so called "Good Guy" is much higher.

In your opinion, Which is not mine or anybody else’s reality

I can always tell when I hit it dead center. You resort to insults instead of countering. You lose. Get over it.

Firearm ownership is no ones business but the individuals, and is certainly none of the federal governments business.
You don’t get to represent other peoples firearm ownership, you have zero credibility on the matter.

Is it anyone esle's business that you have to be insured to drive your car? How about registration and licensing to drive same said vehicle. You MUST pay property taxes otherwise you can't own property. The list goes on and on about things that also apply. You must be licensed to be a Doctor, Real Estate Agent and more. Are you saying that this is also wrong?

Public Safety comes first.

Don't bother. Their canned response is that they think crazies with guns are a right. I guess they don't understand the concept of public safety.

Control freaks like yourself are fucking pussies

 

[Rustic]

In your opinion, Which is not mine or anybody else’s reality

I can always tell when I hit it dead center. You resort to insults instead of countering. You lose. Get over it.

Firearm ownership is no ones business but the individuals, and is certainly none of the federal governments business.
You don’t get to represent other peoples firearm ownership, you have zero credibility on the matter.

Is it anyone esle's business that you have to be insured to drive your car? How about registration and licensing to drive same said vehicle. You MUST pay property taxes otherwise you can't own property. The list goes on and on about things that also apply. You must be licensed to be a Doctor, Real Estate Agent and more. Are you saying that this is also wrong?

Public Safety comes first.

Don't bother. Their canned response is that they think crazies with guns are a right. I guess they don't understand the concept of public safety.

I believe we just might be dealing with NRA sponsored trolls. The NRA isn't what it was when I was a member. It's now owned lock stock and barrel by the Gun Makers of the World. Shame, it used to stand for something good for the public.l Now it just stands for selling more guns and it doesn't care to whom.

Lol
The NRA is not pro gun enough.
Take your control freak nature and shove it up your fucking ass

 

[BULLDOG]

I don't know who cares abut the pig. I guess it's mother might. I'm positive that the parents of all those students don't want a stupid teenager shooting on the school grounds without anybody knowing it was going to happen. Unexpected gunfire at a school usually ends up with the shooter being dead. The idiot was lucky.

I don’t think the pigs care one way or another, but it is not the firearms at fault it’s the person’s fault. You need to learn the difference…

Never said it was the guns fault. As always it's that idiot "good guy with a gun" that pulls the really dangerous stupid shit.

And the "Good Guy with a Gun" in America uses that Gun 1,500,000 times a year to stop really dangerous shit by the kooks and criminals people like you keep letting out of jail....

Yep that's about 3% of the time according to the latest study by the FBI. I could be wrong. It might be as high as 5%. I;ll have to double check.

Would like to see a link on that sometime in the near future.......

Look back at one of the other times I already gave it to you dumb ass.

 

[Skull Pilot]

CDC Study: Use of Firearms for Self-Defense is ‘Important Crime Deterrent’
Defensive Gun Use

No matter how you slice it defensive gun use saves lives.

Great study. It shows that most gun related incidents don't result in death. However, you must realize that most meth users don't die immediately either. So Meth use and gun use must be equally safe------right?

That study also says defensive dun use is an important crime deterrent.
The second link estimates over 70000 DGU annually.

IMO it's most likely more but not quite the 1.5 million that oft quoted study says

Even if you take the low ball estimate guns are used in defense far more often than they are for murder

Defensive gun use is nonaddictive so your meth analogy is poor at best

Then why has violent crime increased every year since WI got concealed carry?

Violent crime is at a 30 year low.

5 facts about crime in the U.S.

Look at WI.

We have more concealed carry than ever, and violent crime increased.
FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

One state. Big fucking deal.

 

[Skull Pilot]

And the "Good Guy with a Gun" in America uses that Gun 1,500,000 times a year to stop really dangerous shit by the kooks and criminals people like you keep letting out of jail....

Yep that's about 3% of the time according to the latest study by the FBI. I could be wrong. It might be as high as 5%. I;ll have to double check.

Care to link to that latest study?

A Study of Active Shooter Incidents in the United States Between 2000 and 2013
View attachment 175173

IDGAF about the DGU of other people.

My firearms are for self defense only (that includes my wife and my dogs) not for the defense of the general public. No one I know with a CCW permit is going to play cop and storm into an active shooter situation nor should they. What anyone I know would do is shelter in place and only shoot if the active shooter was shooting at them.

In fact I will not draw my gun in defense of anyone but myself or my wife. I'm not a cop. I do not want to be a cop. And the way I see it if someone chooses to be defenseless and trust in government law enforcement to protect him that is his choice and I will respect that choice.

So I'll call the cops and hope they get there before it's too late.

Good for you, but we both know plenty of people who would love to play Dirty Harry.

I don't know any people who want to play cop.

 

[Skull Pilot]

If it is difficult to get a gun, how do so many children get them for school shootings?

Do you really think pimply faced 15 year old kids buy guns from gun stores?
They get them from their idiot friends or their idiot parents

So it is obviously very easy to get a gun.

Even an angry child can get one.

Once again the point I make sails right over your head.

If it was easy for every snot nosed kid having a temper tantrum to get their hands on a gun as you think it is then mass shootings would account for far more murders than 1%

 

[Skull Pilot]

I don’t think the pigs care one way or another, but it is not the firearms at fault it’s the person’s fault. You need to learn the difference…

Never said it was the guns fault. As always it's that idiot "good guy with a gun" that pulls the really dangerous stupid shit.

And the "Good Guy with a Gun" in America uses that Gun 1,500,000 times a year to stop really dangerous shit by the kooks and criminals people like you keep letting out of jail....

On million plus? Do you live where ISIS and the Taliban control? If you needed that weapon that many times or all of us needed those wlapons that many times for bad guys The bad guys would out number the rest of us and we would die.

I was wondering if you could inflate those numbers any more.

Not me, doofus......bill clinton's Department of Justice research into defensive gun use...just one of the studies......


The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

You are way too prepared. Tells me that there are number of analysts working behind the scenes with an agenda. You might tell you handlers that you have been bagged. You are a NRA sponsored troll.

all that info is available to anyone who can use Google.

Just because you can't doesn't mean people who can are paid shills

 

[danielpalos]

We need well regulated militia for the security of our free States.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

We need well regulated militia for the security of our free States.

Oh, I agree fully. Not for reason you have, maybe. I believe that every state should have it's own State Militia. Texas has theirs, California has theirs and a few other states do as well. But we have to look at the History of the totally State Controlled Militia.

Here in Colorado, we had a State Guard but it was absorbed into the National Guard. But when we did have a State Guard it was the total tool for the State's Governor. Yes it was there to protect the state from the Feds but it wasn't really used that way. Here is an episode that happened just before the State Guard was Nationalized
Militia slaughters strikers at Ludlow, Colorado - Apr 20, 1914 - HISTORY.com
The Power of John D Rockefeller was almost absolute in those days. And both State Guard and Federal Troops were used. The State Guard was also called the Colorado Militia.

I do like the way the Texas handles their State Guards. During the last two disasters in Houston and Galveston, the State Guard took over and did an admirable job. When Katrina was in force, the feds showed up, tried to put their own man in charge and ended up being led by the State Guard Commander. Most of the emergency and public safety people in Texas are part of the Texas State Guard like Firemen and Cops. This is why the Texans can survive where other states lose life. A friend of mine stayed in his house during the last one and ended up moving his family into a tree house. He wasn't worried. Sooner or later, the Rescuers would come and they did. Took them 3 days but they made it. No big worries on his part since he was prepared. He had another safe area as well but the Tornado Shelter was filled with water, obviously. There is still quite a bit of the West alive in southern Texas.

 

[Brain357]

We have school shootings here regularly. What country with decent gun control has a problem with school shootings?

We lose about one police officer a week to a shooting death. Countries with decent gun control lose single digits in a year.

Nope......they have different cultures.....and that is changing.....Britain didn't have lots of school shootings before they confiscated guns, and neither did the other European countries.......

And we with the most guns are the only ones who have the problem.

 

[Brain357]

On million plus? Do you live where ISIS and the Taliban control? If you needed that weapon that many times or all of us needed those wlapons that many times for bad guys The bad guys would out number the rest of us and we would die.

I was wondering if you could inflate those numbers any more.

CDC Study: Use of Firearms for Self-Defense is ‘Important Crime Deterrent’
Defensive Gun Use

No matter how you slice it defensive gun use saves lives.

Great study. It shows that most gun related incidents don't result in death. However, you must realize that most meth users don't die immediately either. So Meth use and gun use must be equally safe------right?

That study also says defensive dun use is an important crime deterrent.
The second link estimates over 70000 DGU annually.

IMO it's most likely more but not quite the 1.5 million that oft quoted study says

Even if you take the low ball estimate guns are used in defense far more often than they are for murder

Defensive gun use is nonaddictive so your meth analogy is poor at best

Then why has violent crime increased every year since WI got concealed carry?

That is a lie numb nuts.......you have been shown it is a lie...

Milwaukee drives the crime rate in Wisconsin....and crime has been going down numb nuts..


“You’re seeing a rebirth:” Crime rates in Milwaukee’s Amani neighborhood down significantly

The data shows crime in 2016 compared with 2015 was down in the Amani neighborhood by 10.42%. For the city as a whole, the decline was 4.66%.
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Over the past four years: crime in the Amani neighborhood declined 26.36% -- for the city: 10.86%.


http://www.wnd.com/2015/04/sheriff-shreds-anti-gun-mayors-excuse-for-crime-spree/



Clarke, who still lives in the city, points out that while the number of homicides in Milwaukee has shot up this year over last, one must look at a larger sample of data, not just this year over last, to get an accurate picture. That’s because last year was a particularly safe year in Milwaukee. Homicides were down 14 percent from the year before.

“The holes in that argument are obvious. First of all, there’s an ebb and flow to crime,” Clarke told WND. “You’ll see a high period followed by a low period, and a low period will often be followed by a high. But some things remain constant, and one is the availability of guns.”

Crime has gone up every single year since getting concealed carry.
Wisconsin Crime Rates 1960 - 2016

 

[Brain357]

With the most concealed carry we have ever had what happens?
FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

 

[Brain357]

I don't know who cares abut the pig. I guess it's mother might. I'm positive that the parents of all those students don't want a stupid teenager shooting on the school grounds without anybody knowing it was going to happen. Unexpected gunfire at a school usually ends up with the shooter being dead. The idiot was lucky.

I don’t think the pigs care one way or another, but it is not the firearms at fault it’s the person’s fault. You need to learn the difference…

Never said it was the guns fault. As always it's that idiot "good guy with a gun" that pulls the really dangerous stupid shit.

And the "Good Guy with a Gun" in America uses that Gun 1,500,000 times a year to stop really dangerous shit by the kooks and criminals people like you keep letting out of jail....

On million plus? Do you live where ISIS and the Taliban control? If you needed that weapon that many times or all of us needed those wlapons that many times for bad guys The bad guys would out number the rest of us and we would die.

I was wondering if you could inflate those numbers any more.

Not me, doofus......bill clinton's Department of Justice research into defensive gun use...just one of the studies......


The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

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Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


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Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

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If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Please link to this imaginary Clinton DOJ study.

Clinton gave us some gun control and crime went down.