The Debt Ceiling, Spending, and Fearless Leaders

[8537]

We can also institute an import tax on ALL GOODS NOT MADE IN THE USA to help raise up revenue as we need both more revenue and less spending.

Can we also bring Smoot and Hawley back from the grave?

It's almost like we've watched this movie before and we know how it ends.

You should look up Smoot Hawley.

Given your kneejerk response to the idea of fair trade, its a cinche you don't know much about it.

I have a passing familiarity Smoot Hawley - which was not at all a movement towards "fair trade".

 

[Foxfyre]

Why am I having trouble trusting Geinter on this? Oh thats right he couldn't even figure out turbo tax...durrrrrr.

I vote NO to raising the debt ceiling. We can cut back on military by bringing troops home from all the countries they are stationed in, cutting way back on and completely eliminating some social spending, freezing the pay of all elected officials (without backpay when its unfrozen) and instituting a 50/50 split on all public employee's health benefits.

We can also institute an import tax on ALL GOODS NOT MADE IN THE USA to help raise up revenue as we need both more revenue and less spending.

I have many more ideas but those are my tops.

Collectively we can probably come up with enough money that the government does not have to spend to not only eliminate the deficit but create a surplus. So I think we're probably on the same page in every way but one:

I am opposed to increasing revenues through any means other than an increase in the GDP, however. Congress has already proved that they will spend every penny they get and then some. Increasing revenues via additional taxes is only an invitation to avoid cutting spending.

I understand the difference here. I just like the idea of an import tax, i am actually for using it as a tool in international dealings.

For example "china give us a better rate on the debt, if not you get a 25% import tax"
"Pakistan, give us back our helicopter, if not you get a 100% import tax and we eliminate all funding"

I just dont get why we dont use our stick


EDIT: Its mostly china motivating my "revenue" idea, i just dont like their position in relation to our position.

LOL, point well taken and I will think about that. Gut level, I am a pretty solid free trader though and any form of protectionism has generally backfired big time. GWB almost ruined our steel industry when he imposed a protectionist tariff, so we have to be really careful about anything we do like that however well intended it may be or how pure our motives.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Collectively we can probably come up with enough money that the government does not have to spend to not only eliminate the deficit but create a surplus. So I think we're probably on the same page in every way but one:

I am opposed to increasing revenues through any means other than an increase in the GDP, however. Congress has already proved that they will spend every penny they get and then some. Increasing revenues via additional taxes is only an invitation to avoid cutting spending.

I understand the difference here. I just like the idea of an import tax, i am actually for using it as a tool in international dealings.

For example "china give us a better rate on the debt, if not you get a 25% import tax"
"Pakistan, give us back our helicopter, if not you get a 100% import tax and we eliminate all funding"

I just dont get why we dont use our stick


EDIT: Its mostly china motivating my "revenue" idea, i just dont like their position in relation to our position.

LOL, point well taken and I will think about that. Gut level, I am a pretty solid free trader though and any form of protectionism has generally backfired big time. GWB almost ruined our steel industry when he imposed a protectionist tariff, so we have to be really careful about anything we do like that however well intended it may be or how pure our motives.

understood

 

[Cuyo]

The cons will never vote to not raise the debt ceiling.

It would be the death of their party

I think many will vote against it- they'll just get together and figure out how many can vote against it while ensuring it still passes, then dole out those "no" votes to people in districts where bullshit buys votes.

^^^THAT.

I doubt even the hard ideologues would vote 'no' if there was any chance they'd be a swing vote. Pure grandstanding.

 

[Foxfyre]

So here we are to date:

To recap:

1) At least four people say just raise the debt ceiling and don't worry about it. One or two of these seem to think America will be destroyed if this is not done. (We won't discuss some of their opinions re those of us who aren't buying into that. ) One or two suggest the ONLY way to cut spending in any meaningful way is to eliminate all defense and entitlement spending.

2) A substantial number want to raise the debt ceiling but cut spending. This won't solve the problem but at least would allow the debt ceiling to be raised to a somewhat lesser amount. Most of these want the spending cuts to be in place before the ceiling is raised.

NOTE: The last I heard, the GOP was pushing for $3 of spending cuts for $1 of debt ceiling increase. The Democrats wanted cuts of half that. Obama generally doesn't commit until it is a done deal these days.​

3) A substantial number say no. No more debt increase. The only way to force austerity in Congress is to cut up the credit card.

A large number in this group want all non critical government agencies closed, want Congressional and other federal pensions privatized, want reasonable fixes to social security implemented now, want as many good programs transferred to the states as possible, and want all the fraud, waste, pork and fat cut out of defense and all other expenditures before we even consider adding one dime to the debt.

NOTE: In my opinion, there is so much waste and inefficiency in our enormous, bloated, overreaching federal government that many hundreds of billions of dollars can be saved every year just be eliminating those things government should not or does not have to do. The bureaucracy itself gobbles up enormous resources without returning a dime to the economy.​