The Debt Ceiling, Spending, and Fearless Leaders

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Yesterday there were some lackluster headlines that Bonior was 'ready to negotiate' on that pesky raising the debt limit thing.

Well they didn't.

US government hits the debt ceiling
By Peter Schroeder - 05/16/11 08:32 PM ET

The U.S. government officially hit the federal debt limit Monday, prompting the Treasury Department to invoke new measures to prevent a default.

Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner tapped into two government employee pension funds to free up cash, and warned in a letter to congressional leaders of “catastrophic economic consequences” if the ceiling is not hiked.

Though Geithner’s language was stark, his announcement lent little urgency to talks on raising the debt limit.

Negotiators led by Vice President Biden will not meet this week. And with the House on recess, and with Geithner saying U.S. borrowing authority would not be exhausted until Aug. 2, lawmakers and the White House have an 11-week timeframe to work out a deal.
US government hits the debt ceiling - TheHill.com

Makes you wonder how many more 'creative' manuvers will be used to avoid dealing with the issue? And how serious a crisis is it anyway when those negotiating a deal aren't even going to meet this week?

and PLEASE. Somebody explain to me how our fearless leaders HAVE to raise the debt limit and will do so if everybody agrees to cut spending.

If they cut spending, why do they need to raise the debt limit?

Does anybody besides me smell a rat here?

Why am I having trouble trusting Geinter on this? Oh thats right he couldn't even figure out turbo tax...durrrrrr.

I vote NO to raising the debt ceiling. We can cut back on military by bringing troops home from all the countries they are stationed in, cutting way back on and completely eliminating some social spending, freezing the pay of all elected officials (without backpay when its unfrozen) and instituting a 50/50 split on all public employee's health benefits.

We can also institute an import tax on ALL GOODS NOT MADE IN THE USA to help raise up revenue as we need both more revenue and less spending.

I have many more ideas but those are my tops.

 

[Foxfyre]

Because you'd either have to:

Cease all military operations worldwide and stop paying alll military personnel + end all discretionary spending - including DHS, NASA (Nevermind the guys up in space at the moment - we can't afford to keep an eye on them), The TSA etc....

Or...

End all payment to SS recipients and end all Medicare benefits + cut some discretionary spending.

Either of those would be immensely contractionary, nevermind the other problems it would cause.

Well, not quite. That's the line you get from the White House: The United States can't afford to default on our debts.

That's true, but refusing to raise the debt limit does not mean defaulting on our debts. The Treasury currently takes in more than enough revenue to pay both the interest and the principal on the debts we currently owe. Here's the point: Once the debt-service bills are paid, there won't be enough money left over to pay for everything else the Obama administration wants to spend money on.

So, the government will be presented with two options:

1. default on debt. or

2. Cut all defense and discretionary spending or most SS/Medicare and discretionary spending.

That's an invitation to Depression. Buy your ticket and get in line. How many folks you think KBR and Boeing lay off tomorrow if that happens?

Could you elaborate on why that is the case and why the cuts in spending I proposed would not be a better option? I could be wrong. But 'fuck you' isn't too instructive in helping people to understand a situation so I'll need more information than that.

 

[8537]

We can also institute an import tax on ALL GOODS NOT MADE IN THE USA to help raise up revenue as we need both more revenue and less spending.

Can we also bring Smoot and Hawley back from the grave?

It's almost like we've watched this movie before and we know how it ends.

 

[xsited1]

Because you'd either have to:

Cease all military operations worldwide and stop paying alll military personnel + end all discretionary spending - including DHS, NASA (Nevermind the guys up in space at the moment - we can't afford to keep an eye on them), The TSA etc....

Or...

End all payment to SS recipients and end all Medicare benefits + cut some discretionary spending.

Either of those would be immensely contractionary, nevermind the other problems it would cause.

Well, not quite. That's the line you get from the White House: The United States can't afford to default on our debts.

That's true, but refusing to raise the debt limit does not mean defaulting on our debts. The Treasury currently takes in more than enough revenue to pay both the interest and the principal on the debts we currently owe. Here's the point: Once the debt-service bills are paid, there won't be enough money left over to pay for everything else the Obama administration wants to spend money on.

So, the government will be presented with two options:

1. default on debt. or

2. Cut all defense and discretionary spending or most SS/Medicare and discretionary spending.

That's an invitation to Depression. Buy your ticket and get in line. How many folks you think KBR and Boeing lay off tomorrow if that happens?

Uh, no. You need to re-read my post.

 

[8537]

Well, not quite. That's the line you get from the White House: The United States can't afford to default on our debts.

That's true, but refusing to raise the debt limit does not mean defaulting on our debts. The Treasury currently takes in more than enough revenue to pay both the interest and the principal on the debts we currently owe. Here's the point: Once the debt-service bills are paid, there won't be enough money left over to pay for everything else the Obama administration wants to spend money on.

So, the government will be presented with two options:

1. default on debt. or

2. Cut all defense and discretionary spending or most SS/Medicare and discretionary spending.

That's an invitation to Depression. Buy your ticket and get in line. How many folks you think KBR and Boeing lay off tomorrow if that happens?

Could you elaborate on why that is the case and why the cuts in spending I proposed would not be a better option?

The cuts you proposed would save a few bucks on the fringes. We need to save almost 50% of the forward fiscal year budget. The above choices are the routes to get there.

I could be wrong. But 'fuck you' isn't too instructive in helping people to understand a situation so I'll need more information than that.

I didn't say "Fuck you" to you. I said Fuck you to the guy hoping the country falls apart and advocating revolution. I have no patience for such sunshine patriots.

 

[WillowTree]

Raise the debt ceiling???

You may as well call your bank up and say: "yeah I know I maxed out my card and I can't pay this debt off but I need more credit because I need to buy shit."

What the fuck is wrong with people???

NO the federal government cant borrow any more money, NO the federal government shouldn't be spending ANY more money...

Sanity Speaks!

 

[8537]

Well, not quite. That's the line you get from the White House: The United States can't afford to default on our debts.

That's true, but refusing to raise the debt limit does not mean defaulting on our debts. The Treasury currently takes in more than enough revenue to pay both the interest and the principal on the debts we currently owe. Here's the point: Once the debt-service bills are paid, there won't be enough money left over to pay for everything else the Obama administration wants to spend money on.

So, the government will be presented with two options:

1. default on debt. or

2. Cut all defense and discretionary spending or most SS/Medicare and discretionary spending.

That's an invitation to Depression. Buy your ticket and get in line. How many folks you think KBR and Boeing lay off tomorrow if that happens?

Uh, no. You need to re-read my post.

Except the cuts you envisioned don't get us anywhere close. The above or some mix thereof are the only ways to get to the needed level of cuts. In reality, the government would default before they would chose either of the above options.

 

[spectrumc01]

You got to raise the debt ceiling first and then get serious about the cuts. However we all know that this is turning into pure politics on both sides, and we the people are to balme for it all. We campaigned for them, and then we elected them knowing full well what we were getting. If your gonna get mad, get mad at your neighbor for voting for the idiots. Then look in the mirror and punch yourself in the face.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

We can also institute an import tax on ALL GOODS NOT MADE IN THE USA to help raise up revenue as we need both more revenue and less spending.

Can we also bring Smoot and Hawley back from the grave?

It's almost like we've watched this movie before and we know how it ends.

Instead of shallow, empty, references lets talk about this.

What is your worry, issue, and/or complaint with putting a 5-10% import tax on any goods not grown/made in the USA?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

You got to raise the debt ceiling first and then get serious about the cuts. However we all know that this is turning into pure politics on both sides, and we the people are to balme for it all. We campaigned for them, and then we elected them knowing full well what we were getting. If your gonna get mad, get mad at your neighbor for voting for the idiots. Then look in the mirror and punch yourself in the face.

but the people i voted for aren't in office....why would i get mad at myself?

 

[Foxfyre]

Yesterday there were some lackluster headlines that Bonior was 'ready to negotiate' on that pesky raising the debt limit thing.

Well they didn't.

US government hits the debt ceiling
By Peter Schroeder - 05/16/11 08:32 PM ET

The U.S. government officially hit the federal debt limit Monday, prompting the Treasury Department to invoke new measures to prevent a default.

Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner tapped into two government employee pension funds to free up cash, and warned in a letter to congressional leaders of “catastrophic economic consequences” if the ceiling is not hiked.

Though Geithner’s language was stark, his announcement lent little urgency to talks on raising the debt limit.

Negotiators led by Vice President Biden will not meet this week. And with the House on recess, and with Geithner saying U.S. borrowing authority would not be exhausted until Aug. 2, lawmakers and the White House have an 11-week timeframe to work out a deal.
US government hits the debt ceiling - TheHill.com

Makes you wonder how many more 'creative' manuvers will be used to avoid dealing with the issue? And how serious a crisis is it anyway when those negotiating a deal aren't even going to meet this week?

and PLEASE. Somebody explain to me how our fearless leaders HAVE to raise the debt limit and will do so if everybody agrees to cut spending.

If they cut spending, why do they need to raise the debt limit?

Does anybody besides me smell a rat here?

Why am I having trouble trusting Geinter on this? Oh thats right he couldn't even figure out turbo tax...durrrrrr.

I vote NO to raising the debt ceiling. We can cut back on military by bringing troops home from all the countries they are stationed in, cutting way back on and completely eliminating some social spending, freezing the pay of all elected officials (without backpay when its unfrozen) and instituting a 50/50 split on all public employee's health benefits.

We can also institute an import tax on ALL GOODS NOT MADE IN THE USA to help raise up revenue as we need both more revenue and less spending.

I have many more ideas but those are my tops.

Collectively we can probably come up with enough money that the government does not have to spend to not only eliminate the deficit but create a surplus. So I think we're probably on the same page in every way but one:

I am opposed to increasing revenues through any means other than an increase in the GDP, however. Congress has already proved that they will spend every penny they get and then some. Increasing revenues via additional taxes is only an invitation to avoid cutting spending.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Yesterday there were some lackluster headlines that Bonior was 'ready to negotiate' on that pesky raising the debt limit thing.

Well they didn't.



Makes you wonder how many more 'creative' manuvers will be used to avoid dealing with the issue? And how serious a crisis is it anyway when those negotiating a deal aren't even going to meet this week?

and PLEASE. Somebody explain to me how our fearless leaders HAVE to raise the debt limit and will do so if everybody agrees to cut spending.

If they cut spending, why do they need to raise the debt limit?

Does anybody besides me smell a rat here?

Why am I having trouble trusting Geinter on this? Oh thats right he couldn't even figure out turbo tax...durrrrrr.

I vote NO to raising the debt ceiling. We can cut back on military by bringing troops home from all the countries they are stationed in, cutting way back on and completely eliminating some social spending, freezing the pay of all elected officials (without backpay when its unfrozen) and instituting a 50/50 split on all public employee's health benefits.

We can also institute an import tax on ALL GOODS NOT MADE IN THE USA to help raise up revenue as we need both more revenue and less spending.

I have many more ideas but those are my tops.

Collectively we can probably come up with enough money that the government does not have to spend to not only eliminate the deficit but create a surplus. So I think we're probably on the same page in every way but one:

I am opposed to increasing revenues through any means other than an increase in the GDP, however. Congress has already proved that they will spend every penny they get and then some. Increasing revenues via additional taxes is only an invitation to avoid cutting spending.

I understand the difference here. I just like the idea of an import tax, i am actually for using it as a tool in international dealings.

For example "china give us a better rate on the debt, if not you get a 25% import tax"
"Pakistan, give us back our helicopter, if not you get a 100% import tax and we eliminate all funding"

I just dont get why we dont use our stick


EDIT: Its mostly china motivating my "revenue" idea, i just dont like their position in relation to our position.

 

[spectrumc01]

You got to raise the debt ceiling first and then get serious about the cuts. However we all know that this is turning into pure politics on both sides, and we the people are to balme for it all. We campaigned for them, and then we elected them knowing full well what we were getting. If your gonna get mad, get mad at your neighbor for voting for the idiots. Then look in the mirror and punch yourself in the face.

but the people i voted for aren't in office....why would i get mad at myself?

If your gonna get mad, get mad at your neighbor for voting for the idiots.

 

[xsited1]

So, the government will be presented with two options:

1. default on debt. or

2. Cut all defense and discretionary spending or most SS/Medicare and discretionary spending.

That's an invitation to Depression. Buy your ticket and get in line. How many folks you think KBR and Boeing lay off tomorrow if that happens?

Uh, no. You need to re-read my post.

Except the cuts you envisioned don't get us anywhere close. The above or some mix thereof are the only ways to get to the needed level of cuts. In reality, the government would default before they would chose either of the above options.

I didn't really specify cuts. I was responding to your post about whether or not to raise the debt ceiling. Here's what I said:

The Treasury currently takes in more than enough revenue to pay both the interest and the principal on the debts we currently owe. Here's the point: Once the debt-service bills are paid, there won't be enough money left over to pay for everything else the Obama administration wants to spend money on.

Just don't spend extra money on new programs. That will force the government to prioritize what they want to spend money on. After that, cuts should be made across the board. We already know we need to make cuts in defense, medicare and SS. The specific amounts and details have yet to be worked out.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

You got to raise the debt ceiling first and then get serious about the cuts. However we all know that this is turning into pure politics on both sides, and we the people are to balme for it all. We campaigned for them, and then we elected them knowing full well what we were getting. If your gonna get mad, get mad at your neighbor for voting for the idiots. Then look in the mirror and punch yourself in the face.

but the people i voted for aren't in office....why would i get mad at myself?

If your gonna get mad, get mad at your neighbor for voting for the idiots.

I'll save my anger for the politicians who have been making horrible decisions .

I dont know how my neighbors vote.

 

[Wiseacre]

You got to raise the debt ceiling first and then get serious about the cuts. However we all know that this is turning into pure politics on both sides, and we the people are to balme for it all. We campaigned for them, and then we elected them knowing full well what we were getting. If your gonna get mad, get mad at your neighbor for voting for the idiots. Then look in the mirror and punch yourself in the face.

I think if we raised the debt ceiling first then the Dems would not be serious about cutting spending. Better to cut spending first, THEN raise the debt ceiling. IMHO, they should pass legislation to curb spending to within last year's revenue plus say 5%. If you blow the budget, then you have to decrease spending by that much the following year. If you can get a bill passed to raise taxes then you can spend the extra money, but not before the tax bill is signed or included.

 

[editec]

We can also institute an import tax on ALL GOODS NOT MADE IN THE USA to help raise up revenue as we need both more revenue and less spending.

Can we also bring Smoot and Hawley back from the grave?

It's almost like we've watched this movie before and we know how it ends.

You should look up Smoot Hawley.

Given your kneejerk response to the idea of fair trade, its a cinche you don't know much about it.

 

[8537]

We can also institute an import tax on ALL GOODS NOT MADE IN THE USA to help raise up revenue as we need both more revenue and less spending.

Can we also bring Smoot and Hawley back from the grave?

It's almost like we've watched this movie before and we know how it ends.

Instead of shallow, empty, references lets talk about this.

What is your worry, issue, and/or complaint with putting a 5-10% import tax on any goods not grown/made in the USA?

It would immediately increase the price of almost all goods and services, cost jobs both in the US and abroad and cause other countries to respond in a retaliatory manner.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

High tariffs encourage monopoly. As opposed to any other tax, we get screwed twice.

That said, we can't spend like this. We have to cut spending to something close to our income. Stimulus so far has only stimulated scams.

So, we will go through our usual game of chicken until they run out of cash. Keeping the ceiling low might concentrate their attention on what is really important to the voters.

And dumping the Obmamination that is Obamacare would be a great start.

 

[8537]

Just don't spend extra money on new programs. That will force the government to prioritize what they want to spend money on. After that, cuts should be made across the board. We already know we need to make cuts in defense, medicare and SS. The specific amounts and details have yet to be worked out.

All of those might be good ideas - but they don't get us to the necessary reductions involved in capping the debt limit at current levels. Capping it at current levels would cause such a decline in tax revenues that the end effect would be to make our fiscal situation far, far worse as the debt-to-GDP ratio goes up (not due to increasing debt, but instead due to declining GDP)