The Crusades: Why are we still fighting them?

[Foxfyre]

So you have no problem with Christians exercising what they believe to be their 'great commission' to spread the gospel throughout the Earth? Christians also believe that you cannot force Christianity onto anybody, but is a process of attracting people to know the One who is the right path so that they choose it themselves.

I'm not familiar enough with the Sunnah to answer that question authoritatively. I doubt there would be an issue with proselytization by non-Muslims among non-Muslims, but I'm not sure about attempting to convert Muslims to other faiths. Historically, this has been forbidden. I don't know whether it should be or not, so I'll try to do some research.

I am unaware of any predominantly Christian countries in which it is illegal for Muslims to actively advertise and promote their faith and encourage (proselytize) anybody, including Christians, to join them.

I am unaware of any predomantly Muslim country in which it is legal for Christians to actively advertise and promote their faith and encourage (proselytize) anybody, much less Muslims, to join them.

 

[hipeter924]

So you have no problem with Christians exercising what they believe to be their 'great commission' to spread the gospel throughout the Earth? Christians also believe that you cannot force Christianity onto anybody, but is a process of attracting people to know the One who is the right path so that they choose it themselves.

I'm not familiar enough with the Sunnah to answer that question authoritatively. I doubt there would be an issue with proselytization by non-Muslims among non-Muslims, but I'm not sure about attempting to convert Muslims to other faiths. Historically, this has been forbidden. I don't know whether it should be or not, so I'll try to do some research.

Plenty of Muslims turned atheist, and Muslims turned secular so illegality doesn't mean anything, eventually you will lose Iran because of people like me spreading radical ideas like equality, democracy and so forth. You have already lost Iraq, now that secularists are taking power there. Just a century and Islamic theocracy (save Syria, Lebanon and 'Palestine') will be dead in the middle east.

 

[Kalam]

So you have no problem with Christians exercising what they believe to be their 'great commission' to spread the gospel throughout the Earth? Christians also believe that you cannot force Christianity onto anybody, but is a process of attracting people to know the One who is the right path so that they choose it themselves.

I'm not familiar enough with the Sunnah to answer that question authoritatively. I doubt there would be an issue with proselytization by non-Muslims among non-Muslims, but I'm not sure about attempting to convert Muslims to other faiths. Historically, this has been forbidden. I don't know whether it should be or not, so I'll try to do some research.

I am unaware of any predominantly Christian countries in which it is illegal for Muslims to actively advertise and promote their faith and encourage (proselytize) anybody, including Christians, to join them.

I am unaware of any predomantly Muslim country in which it is legal for Christians to actively advertise and promote their faith and encourage (proselytize) anybody, much less Muslims, to join them.

How is this pertinent?

 

[Kalam]

[
Plenty of Muslims turned atheist, and Muslims turned secular so illegality doesn't mean anything, eventually you will lose Iran because of people like me spreading radical ideas like equality, democracy and so forth. You have already lost Iraq, now that secularists are taking power there. Just a century and Islamic theocracy (save Syria, Lebanon and 'Palestine') will be dead in the middle east.

Who is this?

 

[sparky]

[attire challenged aside]

so just does one wear to a crusade?


[/attire challenged aside]

 

[Kalam]

[attire challenged aside]

so just does one wear to a crusade?


[/attire challenged aside]

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=us+military+bdu&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

 

[Sky Dancer]

To tell you the truth I'm sick of proselytizing Christian and Muslims. Why don't you leave us in peace?

 

[Kalam]

To tell you the truth I'm sick of proselytizing Christian and Muslims. Why don't you leave us in peace?

Have a lot of Muslims knocking on your door, do you?

 

[Sky Dancer]

You world conquest types get on my nerves.

 

[Kalam]

You world conquest types get on my nerves.

 

[Intense]

So you have no problem with Christians exercising what they believe to be their 'great commission' to spread the gospel throughout the Earth? Christians also believe that you cannot force Christianity onto anybody, but is a process of attracting people to know the One who is the right path so that they choose it themselves.

I'm not familiar enough with the Sunnah to answer that question authoritatively. I doubt there would be an issue with proselytization by non-Muslims among non-Muslims, but I'm not sure about attempting to convert Muslims to other faiths. Historically, this has been forbidden. I don't know whether it should be or not, so I'll try to do some research.

That's death penalty.

 

[Intense]

To tell you the truth I'm sick of proselytizing Christian and Muslims. Why don't you leave us in peace?

Just repeat after me..... La-La-La-La-La... I can't hear you!!! Repeat.

 

[Sky Dancer]

To tell you the truth I'm sick of proselytizing Christian and Muslims. Why don't you leave us in peace?

Just repeat after me..... La-La-La-La-La... I can't hear you!!! Repeat.

I'm just being a wise ass today.

 

[Foxfyre]

I'm not familiar enough with the Sunnah to answer that question authoritatively. I doubt there would be an issue with proselytization by non-Muslims among non-Muslims, but I'm not sure about attempting to convert Muslims to other faiths. Historically, this has been forbidden. I don't know whether it should be or not, so I'll try to do some research.

I am unaware of any predominantly Christian countries in which it is illegal for Muslims to actively advertise and promote their faith and encourage (proselytize) anybody, including Christians, to join them.

I am unaware of any predomantly Muslim country in which it is legal for Christians to actively advertise and promote their faith and encourage (proselytize) anybody, much less Muslims, to join them.

How is this pertinent?

It is pertinent because of the two religions, I see Christianity as the far more tolerant. You as a Muslim are welcome among Christians and will not be punished for practicing your faith or trying to 'sell' it to a Christian. In no predominantly Muslim country I know of would I, a Christian, be able to openly practice my faith. I would be forbidden from trying to 'sell' it to a Muslim, and in many countries the penalty for attempting such would be quite severe. Christians long ago gave up attempting to officially shame or punish people into behaving as Christians.

So that goes to my question. You say that it is the intention of Islam that all people eventually be Muslim and that will be via attraction. And in that interest, I suppose it is in the interest of Islam to suppress activity of all other religions wherever it is possible for them to do that.

So would you say that Islam mostly does not approve of Christians who see it as their primary purpose in life to lead others to Christ? Would you, as a Muslim, deny them permission or ability to do that freely and without fear?

 

[daveman]

I am unaware of any predominantly Christian countries in which it is illegal for Muslims to actively advertise and promote their faith and encourage (proselytize) anybody, including Christians, to join them.

I am unaware of any predomantly Muslim country in which it is legal for Christians to actively advertise and promote their faith and encourage (proselytize) anybody, much less Muslims, to join them.

How is this pertinent?

It is pertinent because of the two religions, I see Christianity as the far more tolerant. You as a Muslim are welcome among Christians and will not be punished for practicing your faith or trying to 'sell' it to a Christian. In no predominantly Muslim country I know of would I, a Christian, be able to openly practice my faith.

Oman allows Christians to practice openly, with most Christian sects having churches.

I dunno about proselytizing to Muslims. On the whole, Oman is very western-friendly. Shoot, the Sultan is gay! Oman's been a good ally in the war on terror.

 

[topspin]

Rastafari is the most peaceful religion

 

[Foxfyre]

How is this pertinent?

It is pertinent because of the two religions, I see Christianity as the far more tolerant. You as a Muslim are welcome among Christians and will not be punished for practicing your faith or trying to 'sell' it to a Christian. In no predominantly Muslim country I know of would I, a Christian, be able to openly practice my faith.

Oman allows Christians to practice openly, with most Christian sects having churches.

I dunno about proselytizing to Muslims. On the whole, Oman is very western-friendly. Shoot, the Sultan is gay! Oman's been a good ally in the war on terror.

I don't know anything about Oman except that the international directory says there are fewer than 3 million residents and that 100% of those are Muslim. It does say that other relgiions are allowed to practice but would that be true if there WERE other religions represented there in any numbers at all? We don't know. But for now, score one for Oman that it is tolerant of other religions.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Foxfyre--

Is it your positon that the religion of Islam is inherently intolerant?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Foxfyre--

Is it your positon that the religion of Islam is inherently intolerant?

As currently preached and taught, I absolutely would support that claim. Kalam has proven it.

They do not tolerate gays, anywhere Islam rules gays are imprisoned or killed.

They do not tolerate intelligent independent women, anywhere Islam rules they are subservient to their male relatives, denied rights and treated as second class citizens, in some places as property.

They do not tolerate ANY other religion, anywhere Islam is in power other religions may not openly carry their religious text, may not build new religious structures, may not practice their religion in public, may not discuss their religion with any Muslim.

Shall I go on?

 

[Foxfyre]

Foxfyre--

Is it your positon that the religion of Islam is inherently intolerant?

Yes Sky. It is absolutely my position that the religion of Islam is inherently intolerant which I've have taken quite some pains to illustrate with postings from both the Qu'ran and the Hadith, and with quotations from advocates and critics of Islam. I can find nothing in history or the current activities of the advocates of Islam to alter my perception about that.

Again, Muslims in small numbers are usually delightful people. Add significantly to their numbers, however, and you will find they are less tolerant, and in significant strength, they are historically quite intolerant. That does not prevent me from appreciating and enjoying my Muslim friends and neighbors in the least, however.

I am giving our friend, Kalam, here every opportunity to change my perception. So far he has mostly reinforced it.