the constitution

[Ame®icano]

Welfare is generally defined "health and well-being". General in this case would be defined as "all of a group".

So why government is concerned of only one particular group?

I'm not really sure what you mean by this.

Government is not protecting, as you said "all of a group". They are concerned about well being of one group, while punishing the other. Is that fair?

 

[Intense]

One disturbing report came from a well-respected attorney representing the dissident Chrysler creditors. Thomas Lauria, the head of White & Case's bankruptcy practice, says that he was threatened by Steven Rattner, the White House's auto task force chief. (A White House spokesman denies making any threats.)

"I represent one less investor today than I represented yesterday," Lauria said on a Detroit radio show. "One of my clients was directly threatened by the White House and in essence compelled to withdraw its opposition to the deal under threat that the full force of the White House press corps would destroy its reputation if it continued to fight. That's how hard it is to stand on this side of the fence." Lauria said that his clients were willing to compromise on 50 cents on the dollar, but the government offered them only 29 cents.

In the Federalist Papers in 1788, James Madison wrote that "laws impairing the obligation of contracts are contrary to the first principles of the social compact, and to every principle of sound legislation." Unfortunately, Washington politicians seem to pay little attention to history, morality, or the rule of law.

Chrysler Bankruptcy Exposes Dirty Politics - CBS News

1. The Federalist Papers are not the Constitution. Nor do they have any legally binding significance concerning Constitutional law.

and

2. You're complaining because the government was bargaining hard to spend less taxpayer money on shares of a company that was obviously not worth what the shareholders were asking?

The Federalist Papers speak to original intent.
I'm complaining because what was done was beyond His Authority.

 

[rightwinger]

So why government is concerned of only one particular group?

I'm not really sure what you mean by this.

Government is not protecting, as you said "all of a group". They are concerned about well being of one group, while punishing the other. Is that fair?

Nobody said life was fair..

No matter what Government does, it helps some groups more than others. People in bad neighborhoods benefit more from police protection, those who take trains benefit from rail subsidies, people with children benefit from schools

Government acts for the greater good of all. It doesn't always work out that each individual gets a fair share

 

[ddye]

when did it become irrelevant? it seems whenever BIG GOVERNMENT on both sides of the aisle deems something a "crises" they completely dismiss the constitution and ram something through. why is this?

Mike

Please explain what has been dismissed in the Constitution

Social Security, Medicare, the proposed Health take over, the bailouts, the list is endless. The Commerce clause does not cover half the shit the Government claims it does.

You forgot:

NASA
The Interstate Highway system
The FDA
Standing armies during times of peace
Child labor laws
The FCC
Anti monopoly legislation

If we strictly followed the Constitution as it was written, America would be a poverty stricken, loose collection of 30 or so constantly squabbling states, if we hadn't been conquered by a foreign power by now.

Doug
Federal Deposit Insurance

 

[Ame®icano]

I'm not really sure what you mean by this.

Government is not protecting, as you said "all of a group". They are concerned about well being of one group, while punishing the other. Is that fair?

Nobody said life was fair..

No matter what Government does, it helps some groups more than others. People in bad neighborhoods benefit more from police protection, those who take trains benefit from rail subsidies, people with children benefit from schools

Government acts for the greater good of all. It doesn't always work out that each individual gets a fair share

You kinda contradict yourself. If you help one group more then the other, then individuals are not treated the same way. That is against the equal protection clause of the Constitution.

 

[Intense]

I relate to what you are saying, residing in NYC, yet, The Rule of Law is still rooted in Principle. Recognizing where it gets hijacked is part of the solution. When a ruling is 180 degrees out of phase, it should be made known. Justice may not always be popular, but it does follow reason. Thoreau advised discerning through conscience. What you say is argument that Marshal screwed up big time.

Remember Hamilton's Position on the Court before He reversed His position on the Role of The Court?

Do you know what I always did when my clients started talking about "justice" and "rule of law" and the like.... I stared at them.... and then I told them about reality. Law is about INDIVIDUAL JUSTICES with INDIVIDUAL opinions on INDIVIDUAL issues. You can not like that or you can like it... the reality is that it depends on which side of the table you're sitting at. If you're a corporation being sued for employment discrimination, you will love Scalia and Thomas because they don't believe in enforcing those laws even though they are on the books. They don't SAY they don't want to enforce them, they just construe the enabling statutes in such a way as to limit the scope of the law's protection. If you're a homosexual who wants their marriage recognized as legal in a state that doesn't allow gay marriage, you'll more likely appreciate Justice Ginzberg or Breyer.

And what any lawyer knows is that "activist" (since that is what you're talking about) is any judge who doesn't agree with you....

as for Hamilton, nice words. but they have no more weight than, say, Senator Schumer talking about his take on gun control..... it's a politician's pov. Sorry, but it's true.

Again, the Constitution is a great document as a "framework" for maintaining the balance of power in our society. It is NOT some fundie's bible....

And you can complain about inconsistency and messiness all you want. Life is messy... so is law.

Not disputing anyone playing with the food on their own plate Jillian. There is a distinction between teaching Virtue and Dogma. You are too close to the spinning of the wheels, you would do good to step back once in a while, that is part of the difference between good and great. Hamilton had the chance to be great and blew it. Up Chuck Schumer will never be great. I sent him an E-Mail once, calling him a Putz, and his office sent me a thank you reply. LOL

There is Principle, upon which great things are built. There is the crap that gets paid to obstruct great things, Jillian. I'm out of the line of fire, I'm not complaining the way you might think. Because I truly love Justice, I am saddened, and I do mourn for what I see. I'm not fooled by the system, I am disappointed in it.

Men in Black was a good read. I did bring it to Jury Duty twice, and got excused the first day, last time. I know both Judges and Lawyers, I try not to prejudge them.

 

[saveliberty]

The legal dictionary takes issue with your interpretation.

The first clause of Article I, Section 8, reads, "The Congress shall have Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States." This clause, called the General Welfare Clause or the Spending Power Clause, does not grant Congress the power to legislate for the general welfare of the country; that is a power reserved to the states through the Tenth Amendment. Rather, it merely allows Congress to spend federal money for the general welfare. The principle underlying this distinction—the limitation of federal power—eventually inspired the only important disagreement over the meaning of the clause.

Good reason why this bill should fail. It is up to the individual states to find solutions to this issue.

What "legal dictionary" would that be? I'm looking at the one online right now, (Legal Definitions & Legal Terms 'G' List) and can find no such entry.

Perhaps you have a link?

My apologies for not providing a link prior. Here you go Vast LWC.
General Welfare legal definition of General Welfare. General Welfare synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

 

[rightwinger]

Government is not protecting, as you said "all of a group". They are concerned about well being of one group, while punishing the other. Is that fair?

Nobody said life was fair..

No matter what Government does, it helps some groups more than others. People in bad neighborhoods benefit more from police protection, those who take trains benefit from rail subsidies, people with children benefit from schools

Government acts for the greater good of all. It doesn't always work out that each individual gets a fair share

You kinda contradict yourself. If you help one group more then the other, then individuals are not treated the same way. That is against the equal protection clause of the Constitution.

No its not

Nowhere in the Constitution does it say that life is fair

 

[rightwinger]

The great thing about the Constitution is that if you don't think something is in concert with the Constitution, you get to take it up in court.
We have a body of nine judges who get to decide this stuff. Unfortunately, nome of the complaints you bring up on this thread have withstood the scrutiny of the courts.
Basically.....you tried and you Lost

 

[Intense]

Mike

Please explain what has been dismissed in the Constitution

Social Security, Medicare, the proposed Health take over, the bailouts, the list is endless. The Commerce clause does not cover half the shit the Government claims it does.

You forgot:

NASA
The Interstate Highway system
The FDA
Standing armies during times of peace
Child labor laws
The FCC
Anti monopoly legislation

If we strictly followed the Constitution as it was written, America would be a poverty stricken, loose collection of 30 or so constantly squabbling states, if we hadn't been conquered by a foreign power by now.

Doug
Federal Deposit Insurance

You are just a burst of Sunshine, aren't you! How Precious!!! Knee deep in Bull Shit, but Precious!!!

 

[Ame®icano]

Nobody said life was fair..

No matter what Government does, it helps some groups more than others. People in bad neighborhoods benefit more from police protection, those who take trains benefit from rail subsidies, people with children benefit from schools

Government acts for the greater good of all. It doesn't always work out that each individual gets a fair share

You kinda contradict yourself. If you help one group more then the other, then individuals are not treated the same way. That is against the equal protection clause of the Constitution.

No its not

Nowhere in the Constitution does it say that life is fair

Does it say that we're all equal under law?

 

[Intense]

You kinda contradict yourself. If you help one group more then the other, then individuals are not treated the same way. That is against the equal protection clause of the Constitution.

No its not

Nowhere in the Constitution does it say that life is fair

Does it say that we're all equal under law?

We have Equal protection under the Law. And then there were hate crimes.

 

[Intense]

The Debates in the Federal Convention of 1787
by James Madison

Debates in the Federal Convention

 

[ddye]

Social Security, Medicare, the proposed Health take over, the bailouts, the list is endless. The Commerce clause does not cover half the shit the Government claims it does.

You forgot:

NASA
The Interstate Highway system
The FDA
Standing armies during times of peace
Child labor laws
The FCC
Anti monopoly legislation

If we strictly followed the Constitution as it was written, America would be a poverty stricken, loose collection of 30 or so constantly squabbling states, if we hadn't been conquered by a foreign power by now.

Doug
Federal Deposit Insurance

You are just a burst of Sunshine, aren't you! How Precious!!! Knee deep in Bull Shit, but Precious!!!

Now there's some intellectual, fact based, hard hitting DEBATE right there!

Doug

 

[AdlerianThinker]

Among these are:

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

America’s own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for our citizens.

This is just Horrible!

Imagine people in the richest nation on earth wanting a decent education, a roof over their head, food. clothing, care when they are too old to work

What the hell was FDR thinking?

No one has the right to have these given to them, especially at the expense of others.

 

[Intense]

Hamilton opened the Pandora's box on Health and General Welfare. He pissed all over Enumerated Powers, just like those in Power do today. It was a Usurpation scheme. The one thing those in power today fear is enough of us Unified to stop their abuse. Unity will break the siege of the statist Totalitarian.

 

[Intense]

You forgot:

NASA
The Interstate Highway system
The FDA
Standing armies during times of peace
Child labor laws
The FCC
Anti monopoly legislation

If we strictly followed the Constitution as it was written, America would be a poverty stricken, loose collection of 30 or so constantly squabbling states, if we hadn't been conquered by a foreign power by now.

Doug
Federal Deposit Insurance

You are just a burst of Sunshine, aren't you! How Precious!!! Knee deep in Bull Shit, but Precious!!!

Now there's some intellectual, fact based, hard hitting DEBATE right there!

Doug

How much did it cost us to shoot missiles at the moon. What kind of hair brained crap was that? Idiots. Next Gore will be claiming that we effected the tides.

 

[ddye]

No one has the right to have these given to them, especially at the expense of others.

In the seventies CEOs made 40 times what their employees made. Now they make over 450 times what their employees make.

Did all CEOs magically start working ten times harder in the seventies? They have used their power to influence the system into giving themselves ten times the income. Whose "expense" did that come from?

Doug

 

[Intense]

Among these are:

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

America’s own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for our citizens.

This is just Horrible!

Imagine people in the richest nation on earth wanting a decent education, a roof over their head, food. clothing, care when they are too old to work

What the hell was FDR thinking?

No one has the right to have these given to them, especially at the expense of others.

Totally agreed!

We should have "Get Up Off Your Ass Day"!!! Break a sweat!!! Earn Your Keep!!!

 

[ddye]

How much did it cost us to shoot missiles at the moon. What kind of hair brained crap was that? Idiots. Next Gore will be claiming that we effected the tides.

Are you just posting random phrases? What des that have to do with the discussion? You really think "shooting missiles at the moon" explains what we did? Really?

Or are you oversimplifying something to an outrageous degree, then mocking your own oversimplification? Because that's the way I'd bet.

Doug