The Case For Closed Primaries

[DiamondDave]

If it's so easy to simply join the party to vote in it's primary, how exactly would closed primaries do anything to stop this 'alleged' electoral process perversion known as cross-over voting?

Because you have to make a choice... you cannot willy nilly choose on a whim at the last second to just play with the other party's process... if you are a DEM, for example, and wish to do that, you then give up on the other primary selections within the DEM party.. you basically fuck yourself for playing the childish game

And if you hate the 'duopoly' nothing is preventing you or like minded folks from starting another party.. it has been done many times... and as a matter of fact, I continually see 3rd and 4th party candidates (GRN and CON recently in my state/district) on general elections... if you get enough people to act and think like you, you could then go thru the process to have a state primary for your party

 

[konradv]

If it's so easy to simply join the party to vote in it's primary, how exactly would closed primaries do anything to stop this 'alleged' electoral process perversion known as cross-over voting?

Because not nearly as many will go through the trouble of changing every other year, as the number who can just waltz on down to the polls and vote without doing anything.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

If it's so easy to simply join the party to vote in it's primary, how exactly would closed primaries do anything to stop this 'alleged' electoral process perversion known as cross-over voting?

cross-over voting is only an issue under certain conditions. one main reason parties support open primaries is the issue of newly registered voters and turnout.
never want to lock out potential support. double edged sword that democracy thing

 

[Intense]

If it's so easy to simply join the party to vote in it's primary, how exactly would closed primaries do anything to stop this 'alleged' electoral process perversion known as cross-over voting?

It limits it, that's all.

 

[manifold]

If it's so easy to simply join the party to vote in it's primary, how exactly would closed primaries do anything to stop this 'alleged' electoral process perversion known as cross-over voting?

Because not nearly as many will go through the trouble of changing every other year, as the number who can just waltz on down to the polls and vote without doing anything.

I'm still not convinced that so called 'cross-over' voting is really a problem at all. Unsubstantiated paranoia is never a good reason for voter restrictions IMO.

 

[DiamondDave]

If it's so easy to simply join the party to vote in it's primary, how exactly would closed primaries do anything to stop this 'alleged' electoral process perversion known as cross-over voting?

Because not nearly as many will go through the trouble of changing every other year, as the number who can just waltz on down to the polls and vote without doing anything.

I'm still not convinced that so called 'cross-over' voting is really a problem at all. Unsubstantiated paranoia is never a good reason for voter restrictions IMO.

If it were an ELECTION for POSITION, you would have a point.. this is not the case.. this is for a PARTY to choose who they will support... nothing more... so that 23 REPs and 23DEMs are not on the general election ballot

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

For this election you don't have to be registered with a particular party.

"You're not declaring yourself as a member of that party. You're simply choosing which ballot you want to vote in this election," said Chris Swope, Lansing City Clerk.

Michigan Voters Head To The Polls - WLNS TV 6 Lansing Jackson Michigan News and Weather - WLNS.COM |

 

[manifold]

Because not nearly as many will go through the trouble of changing every other year, as the number who can just waltz on down to the polls and vote without doing anything.

I'm still not convinced that so called 'cross-over' voting is really a problem at all. Unsubstantiated paranoia is never a good reason for voter restrictions IMO.

If it were an ELECTION for POSITION, you would have a point.. this is not the case.. this is for a PARTY to choose who they will support... nothing more... so that 23 REPs and 23DEMs are not on the general election ballot

Can you provide a factual example of cross-over voting resulting a in party nominating a candidate they didn't want?

 

[kwc57]

Yeah, I'm in agreement.

Of course, I also made this point when Republicans were messing with the Democratic primaries in 2008...

You know, when Rush Limbaugh literally asked people straight out to go vote for Hillary Clinton?

Imagine how much better off we'd be if people had followed Rush's advice.

 

[Conservative]

Yeah, I'm in agreement.

Of course, I also made this point when Republicans were messing with the Democratic primaries in 2008...

You know, when Rush Limbaugh literally asked people straight out to go vote for Hillary Clinton?

It's wrong no matter which party does it.

this

 

[manifold]

The fastest horse sayeth: If the hyper-partisans on both sides agree on something, it's probably a terrible idea.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

The fastest horse sayeth: If the hyper-partisans on both sides agree on something, it's probably a terrible idea.

Why do you consider partisanship an evil? It's illogical in the extreme.

 

[manifold]

The fastest horse sayeth: If the hyper-partisans on both sides agree on something, it's probably a terrible idea.

Why do you consider partisanship an evil? It's illogical in the extreme.

I've never seen it do any good.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

The fastest horse sayeth: If the hyper-partisans on both sides agree on something, it's probably a terrible idea.

Why do you consider partisanship an evil? It's illogical in the extreme.

I've never seen it do any good.

Yes you have. Whenever you've taken a side in a winning argument (as rare as that may be). Abuse in the field of partisan politics is like abuse of the patronage system; it comes with the package.

Bemoaning the perceived (mythical) loss of, and seeking perfection in, human interactions, is a loser's position if ever there were one

 

[DiamondDave]

I'm still not convinced that so called 'cross-over' voting is really a problem at all. Unsubstantiated paranoia is never a good reason for voter restrictions IMO.

If it were an ELECTION for POSITION, you would have a point.. this is not the case.. this is for a PARTY to choose who they will support... nothing more... so that 23 REPs and 23DEMs are not on the general election ballot

Can you provide a factual example of cross-over voting resulting a in party nominating a candidate they didn't want?

Can you provide a factual example of you being restricted or denied a vote in an actual election?

And since they don't check affiliation in an open primary, there is not going to be hard numbers

 

[manifold]

If it were an ELECTION for POSITION, you would have a point.. this is not the case.. this is for a PARTY to choose who they will support... nothing more... so that 23 REPs and 23DEMs are not on the general election ballot

Can you provide a factual example of cross-over voting resulting a in party nominating a candidate they didn't want?

Can you provide a factual example of you being restricted or denied a vote in an actual election?

And since they don't check affiliation in an open primary, there is not going to be hard numbers

No I can't. Of course I never claimed that I had. My state's primaries are open.

You, on the other hand, have bemoaned the soiling of your party's nomination process due to cross-over voting. So again, can you provide a factual example of cross-over voting resulting in a party nominating a candidate they didn't want?

 

[manifold]

Can you provide a factual example of cross-over voting resulting a in party nominating a candidate they didn't want?

Can you provide a factual example of you being restricted or denied a vote in an actual election?

And since they don't check affiliation in an open primary, there is not going to be hard numbers

No I can't. Of course I never claimed that I had. My state's primaries are open.

You, on the other hand, have bemoaned the soiling of your party's nomination process due to cross-over voting. So again, can you provide a factual example of cross-over voting resulting in a party nominating a candidate they didn't want?

I'll even lower the bar for you. Forget factual. Simply give me an example of a nominee that you believe wouldn't have been nominated if not for cross-over voting.

 

[Zander]

It is up to the individual states. If they want to allow open primaries even though they can be corrupted and gamed, have at it.

 

[manifold]

It is up to the individual states. If they want to allow open primaries even though they can be corrupted and gamed, have at it.

And the next time a primary is effectively corrupted and gamed will be the first.

 

[DiamondDave]

Can you provide a factual example of you being restricted or denied a vote in an actual election?

And since they don't check affiliation in an open primary, there is not going to be hard numbers

No I can't. Of course I never claimed that I had. My state's primaries are open.

You, on the other hand, have bemoaned the soiling of your party's nomination process due to cross-over voting. So again, can you provide a factual example of cross-over voting resulting in a party nominating a candidate they didn't want?

I'll even lower the bar for you. Forget factual. Simply give me an example of a nominee that you believe wouldn't have been nominated if not for cross-over voting.

I did not 'bemoan' anything about 'my party' having nominations soiled...

I simply told you that this is for the party, not for a goddamn election directly for a position.. I also told you that you were not kept from voting in a primary, that all you had to do was go and register for whatever party you felt you wanted to participate in their primary process... and I also stated that open primaries basically thwart this being about the party choosing a candidate when persons outside the party have participation... and I am against REPs, INDs, or any other party member voting in a DEM primary as well...

AGAIN.. this is about the party, not the goddamn election...