The Case For Closed Primaries

[manifold]

No I can't. Of course I never claimed that I had. My state's primaries are open.

You, on the other hand, have bemoaned the soiling of your party's nomination process due to cross-over voting. So again, can you provide a factual example of cross-over voting resulting in a party nominating a candidate they didn't want?

I'll even lower the bar for you. Forget factual. Simply give me an example of a nominee that you believe wouldn't have been nominated if not for cross-over voting.

I did not 'bemoan' anything about 'my party' having nominations soiled...

I simply told you that this is for the party, not for a goddamn election directly for a position.. I also told you that you were not kept from voting in a primary, that all you had to do was go and register for whatever party you felt you wanted to participate in their primary process... and I also stated that open primaries basically thwart this being about the party choosing a candidate when persons outside the party have participation... and I am against REPs, INDs, or any other party member voting in a DEM primary as well...

AGAIN.. this is about the party, not the goddamn election...

Yeah, you're not bemoaning anything at all.

 

[DaGoose]

I'll even lower the bar for you. Forget factual. Simply give me an example of a nominee that you believe wouldn't have been nominated if not for cross-over voting.

I did not 'bemoan' anything about 'my party' having nominations soiled...

I simply told you that this is for the party, not for a goddamn election directly for a position.. I also told you that you were not kept from voting in a primary, that all you had to do was go and register for whatever party you felt you wanted to participate in their primary process... and I also stated that open primaries basically thwart this being about the party choosing a candidate when persons outside the party have participation... and I am against REPs, INDs, or any other party member voting in a DEM primary as well...

AGAIN.. this is about the party, not the goddamn election...

Yeah, you're not bemoaning anything at all.

Time to stick a fork in ya.......you're done.

 

[manifold]

I did not 'bemoan' anything about 'my party' having nominations soiled...

I simply told you that this is for the party, not for a goddamn election directly for a position.. I also told you that you were not kept from voting in a primary, that all you had to do was go and register for whatever party you felt you wanted to participate in their primary process... and I also stated that open primaries basically thwart this being about the party choosing a candidate when persons outside the party have participation... and I am against REPs, INDs, or any other party member voting in a DEM primary as well...

AGAIN.. this is about the party, not the goddamn election...

Yeah, you're not bemoaning anything at all.

Time to stick a fork in ya.......you're done.

That's pretty witty, did you write that yourself?

Regardless, perhaps you're more up to the task than DoubleDouche. So please, give me an example of cross-over voting leading to a nominee that the party didn't want.

 

[Zander]

It is up to the individual states. If they want to allow open primaries even though they can be corrupted and gamed, have at it.

And the next time a primary is effectively corrupted and gamed will be the first.

Maybe. I don't really know or care.

What I do know is this; holding open primaries does increase the likelihood of partisan shenanigans. If you help your "team" by voting for the weaker candidate on the other "team"- that is corrupting the process- at least in my opinion. Anything that corrupts the process or even appears to corrupt the process is a bad thing.

Still, it is up to the individual states...

 

[DiamondDave]

It is up to the individual states. If they want to allow open primaries even though they can be corrupted and gamed, have at it.

And the next time a primary is effectively corrupted and gamed will be the first.

Maybe. I don't really know or care.

What I do know is this; holding open primaries does increase the likelihood of partisan shenanigans. If you help your "team" by voting for the weaker candidate on the other "team"- that is corrupting the process- at least in my opinion. Anything that corrupts the process or even appears to corrupt the process is a bad thing.

Still, it is up to the individual states...

It is up to the individual states and the parties themselves... again.. this is about party specific nomination within the process... pretty easy to see that it is more beneficial than having 12 candidates in the general election on the REP side and 11 on the DEM side... and since it is party specific, and does not eliminate anyone for voting for any candidate regardless of party (or not even being in a party), I am all for closed party specific primaries

As a matter of fact, voting in the primary is the ONLY reason I register as a REP... and I have voted across party lines numerous times for various political positions

 

[The T]

It is up to the individual states. If they want to allow open primaries even though they can be corrupted and gamed, have at it.

And the next time a primary is effectively corrupted and gamed will be the first.

Maybe. I don't really know or care.

What I do know is this; holding open primaries does increase the likelihood of partisan shenanigans. If you help your "team" by voting for the weaker candidate on the other "team"- that is corrupting the process- at least in my opinion. Anything that corrupts the process or even appears to corrupt the process is a bad thing.

Still, it is up to the individual states...

Yep. States set thier own rules...and the ONLY reason people are able to vote in a Federal Presidential Election.

There is no right of the people to vote for President contained in the Constitution.

 

[Seawytch]

I'm still not convinced that so called 'cross-over' voting is really a problem at all. Unsubstantiated paranoia is never a good reason for voter restrictions IMO.

If it were an ELECTION for POSITION, you would have a point.. this is not the case.. this is for a PARTY to choose who they will support... nothing more... so that 23 REPs and 23DEMs are not on the general election ballot

Can you provide a factual example of cross-over voting resulting a in party nominating a candidate they didn't want?

Might be happening in MI at this very moment...

 

[AVG-JOE]

As the state of Michigan prepares for Tuesday's presidential primary, questions remain about whether Democrats could skew the results via crossover voting. The state of Michigan has no party registration requirement, so any registered voter can participate in Tuesday's Republican presidential primary, including Democrats and independents.

Crossover voter threat in Michigan? Officials say they

This is plain wrong.

In Illinois if a person was to go in ask for a GOP ballot he or she would automatically be registered in the GOP party for the next two years.

I'm an independant.

I don't get to vote in PA primaries.

Don't know why, I have the right to vote. Seems like we should all get to vote.

This is precisely why I remain flexible on party affiliation. True independence is discouraged.

Someone posted something about a state where independents picked a primary to vote in on election day. I like that idea.

 

[manifold]

Crossover voter threat in Michigan? Officials say they

This is plain wrong.

In Illinois if a person was to go in ask for a GOP ballot he or she would automatically be registered in the GOP party for the next two years.

I'm an independant.

I don't get to vote in PA primaries.

Don't know why, I have the right to vote. Seems like we should all get to vote.

This is precisely why I remain flexible on party affiliation. True independence is discouraged.

Someone posted something about a state where independents picked a primary to vote in on election day. I like that idea.

Exactly. That way, the politicians aren't just courting their base, the want to draw from the pool of independents. If this is truly a whittling down process, as some have surmised, why not let people wait to hear what the politicians on all sides have to say before making their decision as to which primary to vote in? It would empower and encourage more independent voters, rather than exclude and marginalize them. And that includes me. So I guess I'm just a partisan like all you other assholes, I'm a partisan independent.

bwtfygd?

 

[Zander]

If it were an ELECTION for POSITION, you would have a point.. this is not the case.. this is for a PARTY to choose who they will support... nothing more... so that 23 REPs and 23DEMs are not on the general election ballot

Can you provide a factual example of cross-over voting resulting a in party nominating a candidate they didn't want?

Might be happening in MI at this very moment...

They tried....I think it did make it a lot closer than it would have been....9% of primary voters were democrats and almost all of them voted for Santorum.
First Read - Crossover Democrats overwhelmingly back Santorum

here they outline their strategy...
Michigan Democrats Explain Crossover Vote Campaign - The Triad News Story - WXII The Triad

 

[Seawytch]

Can you provide a factual example of cross-over voting resulting a in party nominating a candidate they didn't want?

Might be happening in MI at this very moment...

They tried....I think it did make it a lot closer than it would have been....9% of primary voters were democrats and almost all of them voted for Santorum.
First Read - Crossover Democrats overwhelmingly back Santorum

here they outline their strategy...
Michigan Democrats Explain Crossover Vote Campaign - The Triad News Story - WXII The Triad

Yes, Michigan came very close to demonstrating why parties have closed primaries.

 

[manifold]

Might be happening in MI at this very moment...

They tried....I think it did make it a lot closer than it would have been....9% of primary voters were democrats and almost all of them voted for Santorum.
First Read - Crossover Democrats overwhelmingly back Santorum

here they outline their strategy...
Michigan Democrats Explain Crossover Vote Campaign - The Triad News Story - WXII The Triad

Yes, Michigan came very close to demonstrating why parties have closed primaries.

Yeah, so what? Were those voters not entitled to vote? Closed primaries discourage independents and marginalize their voice in the election process. Open primaries do the exact opposite. Open primaries across the board would give us better candidates in the general election.

 

[Inthemiddle]

Yeah, so what? Were those voters not entitled to vote? Closed primaries discourage independents and marginalize their voice in the election process. Open primaries do the exact opposite. Open primaries across the board would give us better candidates in the general election.

No, they're not entitled to vote. You know why? Because primary elections are, BY DEFINITION, a partisan activity. Are you entitled to vote in Canada? Of course not. Know why? Because you're not part of their electorate. The same is the case here for political party primaries. It's a meeting OF THE PARTY, not the populace, to pick a REPRESENTATIVE OF THE PARTY. So quit your whining like a little bitch already. "Waa, mommy, de no let me play with their blocks!"

 

[manifold]

Yeah, so what? Were those voters not entitled to vote? Closed primaries discourage independents and marginalize their voice in the election process. Open primaries do the exact opposite. Open primaries across the board would give us better candidates in the general election.

No, they're not entitled to vote. You know why? Because primary elections are, BY DEFINITION, a partisan activity. Are you entitled to vote in Canada? Of course not. Know why? Because you're not part of their electorate. The same is the case here for political party primaries. It's a meeting OF THE PARTY, not the populace, to pick a REPRESENTATIVE OF THE PARTY. So quit your whining like a little bitch already. "Waa, mommy, de no let me play with their blocks!"

Fail. Every single voter that cast a vote in the Michigan primary is part of the Michigan electorate dumbass. Go peddle your strawman to a 3rd grader, they might be naive enough to buy it. Maybe.

 

[Peach]

Might be happening in MI at this very moment...

They tried....I think it did make it a lot closer than it would have been....9% of primary voters were democrats and almost all of them voted for Santorum.
First Read - Crossover Democrats overwhelmingly back Santorum

here they outline their strategy...
Michigan Democrats Explain Crossover Vote Campaign - The Triad News Story - WXII The Triad

Yes, Michigan came very close to demonstrating why parties have closed primaries.

I READ only 2% more than in 2008 crossed over & voted Republican, but many may have voted for Sancto.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

There is no right of the people to vote for President contained in the Constitution.

In a representative democracy like ours, the people vote through their elected representatives, so you are not only deluded, you are ignorant.

We are not a direct democracy, but we are a democracy...we have a Republican form of government with a democratic political process.

Being so literal may make you feel smaht, but the reality is it showcases your ignorance and insecurities.


dD

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Yeah, so what? Were those voters not entitled to vote? Closed primaries discourage independents and marginalize their voice in the election process. Open primaries do the exact opposite. Open primaries across the board would give us better candidates in the general election.

No, they're not entitled to vote. You know why? Because primary elections are, BY DEFINITION, a partisan activity. Are you entitled to vote in Canada? Of course not. Know why? Because you're not part of their electorate. The same is the case here for political party primaries. It's a meeting OF THE PARTY, not the populace, to pick a REPRESENTATIVE OF THE PARTY. So quit your whining like a little bitch already. "Waa, mommy, de no let me play with their blocks!"

Fail. Every single voter that cast a vote in the Michigan primary is part of the Michigan electorate dumbass. Go peddle your strawman to a 3rd grader, they might be naive enough to buy it. Maybe.

primaries are party contests, and whether they are open or closed does not change the fact. Their are very legitimate arguments for either case.