The BETTER Electric Vehicle..

Discussion in 'Environment' started by flacaltenn, Nov 26, 2012.

  1. flacaltenn
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    flacaltenn USMB Mod Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

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    This thread goes well with Davemans' thread Re: CBO statements on EVs and Toyota pulling it's EV before production. WHY did Toyota pull the product??

    Fuel cell EVs solve so many issues -- it's not actually gonna be contest.. We are wasting time and money blowing the national treasure on such a premature development.. Some of the issues that get resolved with fuel cells.

    1) Ranges commensurate with ICE vehicles.
    2) Fueling times similiar to ICE vehicles.
    3) REAL non-polluting fuel sources. FAR less than grid supplied electricity.
    4) No need to double electric grid capacity or generating capability
    5) Renewables like wind/solar COULD be used off grid to produce hydrogen
    6) Natural gas COULD be an interim source of fuel cell power.
    7) Less toxic waste stream than battery manufacturing/recycling/disposal


    THAT --- is just the surface of why I'm stacking my bets on Hyundai and fuel cells. Battery EVs are gonna be a flash in the pan -- and AGAIN the political policies are gonna be a dollar short and a day late..
     
  2. Old Rocks
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    Old Rocks Diamond Member

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    Oh, and best of all. The average homeowner cannot produce his own fuel. Just imagine if the homeowners become indepentdent of the big corperations. Death of our way of life!
     
  3. flacaltenn
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    flacaltenn USMB Mod Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

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    You're jokin' right?
     
  4. Mr. H.
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    Mr. H. Diamond Member

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    He never jokes.

    Bullshits maybe, but never jokes.
     
  5. westwall
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    westwall USMB Mod Staff Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Probably not true. Eventually the tech will evolve where H can be removed from water in an efficient, cheap way. Then it will be Katie bar the door. You see olfraud, real scientists can and do come up with better ideas all the time.

    Batteries suck, they allways suck. Fuel cells are the way forward, to borrow a line from a certain politician, and will supplant the EV's of today very quickly. That is where research should be going instead of the rathole of a 100 year old technology that wasn't able to compete against the ICE's of 100 years ago.

    ICE's are better and the batteries are still about the same.
     
  6. mamooth
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    mamooth Gold Member Supporting Member

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    But only for fuel cells, right? According to you, batteries "always suck". Fuel cell tech can evolve, but battery tech can't.

    Let's compare two systems:

    1. Use electricity.

    2. Convert electricity to hydrogen, pressurize the hydrogen, cart the hydrogen around, turn the hydrogen back into electricity, and then use the electricity.

    Hmm, which seems more efficient?
     
  7. westwall
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    westwall USMB Mod Staff Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Ummm, you're forgetting some steps there mammie old girl. Step 1. Mine the coal or pump the oil (after drilling for it of course) or process the uranium (after the aforsaid mining procedure), generate electricity with it. Transmit the electricity through miles of cables (that are likewise created by mining and processing) to your little EV. Then charge the batteries (which, yet again, are the result of mining and transporting the product from one side of the planet to the other for manufacturing, using yet more oil....)

    Do you get the idea yet? Has it penetrated into your addled brain that electric vehicles are not the simple plug and play you seem to think they are? The sooner you figure out the reality of what you are saying the sooner you will begin to understand the complexity of the technology.

    Something, that at the moment, you have no clue of.
     
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  8. mamooth
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    mamooth Gold Member Supporting Member

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    And most of those steps also have to be done to make hydrogen. If not the same steps, then even more difficult ones.

    You don't appear to have thought this through at all. In your magical hydrogen fairyland, big tanks of pressurized hydrogen will just magically appear under every little windmill. Back in the real world, hydrogen like that would have to be made at centralized big facilities that use electricity from the grid. It would lose energy in electrolysis, it would take much energy to pressurize it, much energy to ship it, it would lose energy in reconversion, and all the components involved would take much energy to produce.

    So why waste that energy? Your handwaving and ranting doesn't suddenly make it less inefficient. You list the downsides of batteries, but ignore the bigger downsides of hydrogen. Instead of your feelings, show us your numbers.
     
  9. westwall
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    westwall USMB Mod Staff Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    I never denied that did I? Nope, you're the one who seems to think that electricity just magically appears at your little socket. Those of us who live in the real world know what it takes to make that electricity.

    Clearly you don't.
     
  10. there4eyeM
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    there4eyeM unlicensed metaphysician

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    Given that the automobile remains the transport of preference, some way of their being electric powered seems inevitable. Of course, if hydrogen were available, it could be used directly in piston and turbine engines as they presently are and without pollution, but electric motors are easier to control and longer-lasting.
     

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